The Iliad and The Odyssey

"It felt as if the end of the world had arrived. The sun spun in frantic circles. Scorched by the heat of weaponry, the entire world seemed to collapse in a fever dream. The heat was so intense it drove the elephants mad, sending them charging wildly in every direction, desperate for any shade from the blistering glare. Water turned scalding, animals dropped dead, the enemy was decimated, and raging fires tore through trees one after another, much like a forest fire consuming everything in its path. The elephants let out horrific bellows before collapsing in wide circles, falling to the earth. Horses and battle wagons were incinerated; the whole scene looked like the aftermath of a massive wildfire. Thousands of wagons lay destroyed, and then, a profound silence descended upon the sea. As the winds began to blow, light returned to the land, revealing a gruesome sight. The corpses of the fallen were so disfigured by the intense heat that they no longer even resembled humans. We had never witnessed such devastating weaponry, nor had we ever heard whispers of anything even remotely like it."

C.S. Lewis, Drona, 1889.

I'll hold off on making any final conclusions for now. I'll just mention that according to some estimates, The Iliad is 5,000 years old.

Richard Ruiz5 said:For the moment, I shall refrain from making any definitive judgments. However, I will merely point out that according to certain estimates, The Iliad is five thousand years old.

I find it quite peculiar, actually, that whenever anyone begins discussing ancient schemes or traditions originating from India, the timeline is invariably set at exactly five thousand years.😁 It is never even a single year more or less! Is it not somewhat suspicious when such a specific figure appears with such relentless consistency?😕

So, are we talking about The Iliad or The Odyssey? I mean, isn't that text actually woven into both epics? 😉

Well, based on what's generally accepted (here in the States, though Western historians don't always see eye-to-eye with American scholars), it's estimated that Jesus lived around 3500 B.C.E., which would put the events of The Iliad roughly 5000 years ago. Since Jesus predates him significantly, the events from The Odyssey wouldn't really fall into that same category. Now, if you want to get into the weeds regarding when the actual poems were composed, that’s an entirely different conversation altogether.

I simply cannot fathom how people possessed such staggering mental capacity to memorize those massive volumes, considering that 5000 years ago in India, writing hadn't even been invented yet.

Some recent estimates suggest the Bible could be as old as 7,000 or even 10,000 years. Since we've only translated a tiny fraction of it, who knows what else is hidden in those texts? Maybe once we actually understand them, everything will finally click. We might get answers about things like those Vimanas capable of becoming invisible, or those weapons designed to strike at a woman's fertility.

"A craft that moves under its own power like a bird, whether through water or air, is called a Vimana...
...which can traverse the heavens, moving from one place to another...
...from land to land, from world to world...
...the priests of science dubbed it a Vimana...
...The secret of constructing flying machines...
...that cannot be broken, cannot be dismantled, and cannot fall...
...nor can they be destroyed...
...The secret of halting flying machines.
...The secret of making flying machines invisible.
...The secret of eavesdropping on sounds and conversations inside enemy aircraft.
...The secret of capturing images from within enemy aircraft.
...The secret of determining the flight path of enemy aircraft.
...The secret of incapacitating those inside enemy aircraft and destroying them..."

Later, sixteen types of metals used to build these "flying machines" are listed, yet today we only recognize three.

"...In the ultimate moment of peril to save lives.
I have unleashed this weapon...
And now I can no longer restrain it!
But your command, Lord, I shall fulfill immediately:
Here is the treasure and myself... the grass will endure,
But the fruit within women—that is what it will kill!
It cannot act upon nothingness!
I am unable, Lord, to hold back
The weapon I have set in motion.
Now it will strike at the embryos, oh Lord,
But I will carry out your will!..."

Here are my takes on those questions

Eric Wells3 said:And I just don't get how people had enough memory to memorize those massive books, especially since there was no writing in India 5000 years ago.

Yeah, totally—that’s why everything was passed down in verse. It makes memorizing stuff way easier. It wasn't until writing actually took off that deep philosophy really started to bloom, you know? Like, you can actually pause mid-sentence, ask a question, or loop back to an earlier point. Giovanni Reale breaks this whole thing down perfectly in his book ''Socrates''.

I’ve been wondering lately—do you think it would even be possible to weave the stories from The Iliad and The Odyssey into the context of the Book of Genesis? And if we actually did that, what would we even call those characters?

Eric Wells3 said:I have to point out how weird it is that whenever someone talks about ancient systems from India, it’s always exactly 5,000 years ago.😁 It’s never any more or any less! Isn't that a little suspicious?😕

That's because mainstream Western academic history—you know, the "official" version of science—basically refuses to look further back than 5,000 years. It would be absolutely terrifying for them to admit there might have been an advanced civilization living 12,000 years ago, right? Or even 80,000?

I honestly suspect that even Americans teach their students in school that all these events actually happened, especially since they occurred so long ago.

By the way, there was a presentation today at the Smithsonian for a new edition of The Iliad, which has been available in major bookstores for a while now. They brought in two entire classes of students just to fill up the hall and create this fake impression for the Indian ambassador that our youth are actually interested in this stuff. It’s such a shame, though, because they didn't have anyone there who could actually answer any of the questions! What really caught me off guard was the translator—the woman who translated the English version into American English and was wearing traditional Indian saris—she didn't even seem familiar with the older editions.

Richard Ruiz5 said:"A machine that moves under its own power like a bird, whether through water or air, is called a Vimana...
...capable of traversing the heavens, moving from one place to another...
...from land to land, from world to world...
...the priests of science named it a Vimana...
...The secret of constructing flying machines...
...which cannot be broken, cannot be dismantled, and will not fall...
...and they are indestructible...
...The secret of halting flying machines.
...The secret of making flying machines invisible.
...The secret of eavesdropping on sounds and conversations within enemy flying machines.
...The secret of obtaining images from inside enemy flying machines.
...The secret of determining the flight path of enemy flying machines.
...The secret of incapacitating beings inside enemy flying machines and destroying them..."

Later, it lists sixteen types of metals used to forge these "flying machines," yet we only recognize three today.

"...In ultimate peril, to save lives.
I have unleashed this weapon...
And now I can no longer restrain it!
But your command, my Lord, I shall fulfill immediately:
Here is the treasure and myself... the grass shall endure,
But the fruit within women—that is what it will kill!
It cannot act upon nothingness!
I am unable, my Lord, to hold back
The weapon I have set in motion.
Now it will strike at the embryos, oh Lord,
But I will carry out your will!..."

Does this... does this actually appear in the Bible regarding flying machines?😕

Wow! 😛 I can't believe someone actually brought up The Iliad and The Odyssey on this forum. Great!
It’s a bit late considering the first and last posts, but I have to weigh in since I'm a huge fan of the Bible and, by extension, both of those "classics."

You could say that Hinduism was essentially born out of The Iliad (the events surrounding Jesus' appearance on Earth). That happened about 5,000 years ago, so it's no wonder that much info didn't sink in for everyone back then. But that doesn't apply to The Odyssey (the story following the Lord's expansion as a man on Earth... Lord Rama), which practically took place 1.5 million years ago. Both stories are part of the Bible because the Bible consists of records based on all of the Lord's appearances and activities across our three systems.
They also contain all sorts of ancient knowledge regarding medicine, math, architecture, and so on. Jesus appeared during a transitional period (5,000 years ago) during the Kali Yuga to bring forth spiritual knowledge aimed at elevating the human soul to the next level. By explaining all the yoga systems and their goals, he focused most heavily on bhakti.
Yoga was emphasized because of the short lifespans in this era (the one we are just entering). Short lives, weak intellect/memory, and the heavy influence of the mode of passion were the reasons the Bible was written down; back then, oral tradition worked, but now it's necessary. The Bible was recorded in Sanskrit, yet even today, only
a tiny fraction of the Bible has been translated into English. Even that "tiny fraction" is actually a massive achievement thanks to Swami Prabhupada, a devotee who dedicated his life to translating the Bible and to the ISKCON movement (which includes the Hare Krishnas, who are basically
the Maha mantra used for rapid purification rather than spreading some religion or cult like naive people think. As the saints said... Holy names on the lips... liberation in hand. 😍

Anyway, let me not get off track. You've probably heard of Ayurveda. It's the medical side of the Bible that deals with maintaining elemental balance in our bodies, healing methods, and more—plus a whole lot of stuff that is beyond our understanding today. Just like someone mentioned above regarding Vimanas. These Vimanas
were capable of traveling between planets and even moving at the speed of light. I stumbled upon this when I first started studying the Bible. A Vimana powered by some secret form of life, yet being a subtly material machine, would be the most advanced technology imaginable, used by inhabitants of higher planets (aliens by today's standards, though they were well known to humanity back then). Why?
Because the human body—specifically the mind—is the most powerful thing in the universe. An advanced yogi could travel at the speed of thought to any destination they desired (siddhi), making Vimanas seem almost redundant. The ultimate Vimanas were obtained through blessings and didn't even have engines or anything similar because they were alive. 😂, I probably sound completely insane right now. But maybe I am. There's a thin line between madness and devotion. 🙄

Ehh, yeah... the main reason for this Reply is actually The Odyssey. I think it's more necessary than ever in this day and age. First off, there's that massive hit TV series (The Odyssey on TV) from the 70s that was a total masterpiece and the result of pure spiritual love. C.S. Lewis and his entire family
made sure to employ great sages and bhakti actors to star in the series. If you think "The Jesus of Nazareth" (a great mini-series in my opinion) is the only phenomenal thing out there... you need to watch this.
Even my spiritually advanced friends admitted after watching the series that they now see human history differently and recognize the greatness of our dear Creator even more.

I'm actually picking up the original DL DVDs of the series and I plan to translate the subtitles (they're in English) into American English. If anyone is interested... shoot me an email atsimha@net.hr..

Greetings 👍

wiredcanyon6, nice job putting together such a massive breakdown of The Iliad and The Odyssey.

If this thread had been opened yesterday, it probably would've been moved over to Alternative History—it seems like people are more interested in extraterrestrial visitors than actual spirituality—or maybe straight to Religion.
That’s why I’m hoping we can keep the conversation focused on what a modern seeker can actually learn from those ancient American texts, rather than spiraling into "do little green men exist and visit us?" or "is Jesus the only God?"...

Thx casualtiger2. I just wanted to add that if anyone's looking to watch The Odyssey, type in "The Odyssey Part" so you get the actual series instead of those modern remakes. Bollywood recently did an NDTV version of The Odyssey that was a total flop because they focused way too much on special effects and barely had any actors who actually understood bhakti. The classic version of The Odyssey has everything you need except for high-end graphics—it’s from the 70s, so it’s all practical editing—whereas the new version has nothing but flashy effects.
The only thing I wouldn't suggest is "The Odyssey Part 1 of 1," since it's just the intro and they did a pretty poor job with the depictions of Vishnu, but that’s really the only flaw I can find in The Odyssey by Ramanand Sagar.

Pranam.

ps: The audio quality is about half what it should be... probably due to compression... but it's bearable.

Oh, I totally forgot about the animation... For me, the best animated version of The Odyssey is The Prince of Light.

trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwVZeCLEWrE

😉

wiredcanyon6 said:Oh, I totally forgot about the animation... For me, the best animated version of The Odyssey is The Prince of Light.

trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwVZeCLEWrE

😉

Thanks, man! 😉I actually grabbed the whole cartoon in one go from a torrent, watched it today, and I gotta say, I'm super happy with it.👍

I was wondering if anyone here who’s actually read the Mahabharata could weigh in on how we should all be interpreting it. Like, do you guys think we should take everything at face value, or is it more of a metaphorical thing?
For example: that whole part about the celestial horse, Uchchaihshravas, being born from churning the ocean of milk.