Judo for the whole world

Haha, look at this crowd from the local MMA gym... guys, this is about spirituality, so watch your step. I assume you just wandered in here by mistake thinking we were talking about kickboxing. 😉

In other words, we aren't here to obsess over the physical side of things—not that anyone besides you and Belki said it wasn't important. But that’s not what this is about. 😉

Nicole Thompson76 said:I’m honestly not even sure if I’m reading a thread about a martial art here. Morihei Ueshiba called it the "peaceful art" because you can actually defend yourself without causing massive, unnecessary damage—unlike those old-school styles where the whole goal was basically just to kill someone with a single strike if you got lucky. It wasn't meant to be some mystical way to meditate all day, conjure up transcendental energy, or shoot energy balls out of your palms to knock people out.

But man, everyone in here seems so full of themselves and their "ki." It’s like everyone’s already achieved total enlightenment and tapped into the universal cosmic flow just by sitting around meditating 24/7, while Morihei Ueshiba himself was humble enough to say things like, "I've only realized a small part of it."

At the end of the day, if you don't actually carry that spirit of peace within you, practicing Judo isn't going to magically develop it for you.

You aren't just reading a thread about martial arts; you're reading a thread about the intersection of martial arts and spirituality.

There's barely any difference between some of the people debating here and the crowd on most combat sports forums, so there’s really no point in acting surprised. 😉

Your last sentence hits the mark. And regarding that first paragraph? To actually get what Morihei was talking about, you'd need to understand a huge part of Omoto's teachings too. 😉

Paul Campbell3 said:Haha, look at this crowd from the local MMA gym... guys, this is about spirituality, so watch your step. I assume you just wandered in here by mistake thinking we were talking about kickboxing. 😉

In other words, we aren't here to obsess over the physical side of things—not that anyone besides you and Belki said it wasn't important. But that’s not what this is about. 😉

Don't worry, Father, everything is under control. We only brought up the physical stuff to keep the casual bystanders on this ridiculous thread from getting a Hollywood-style, romanticized view of martial arts and all the psychological baggage attached to them. I'll just bow out of this "expert" debate now.🙈

bluemason3 said:So now we're suffering because training is hard? Apparently, physical exertion is a taboo subject and a total trigger for everyone's spiritual neuroses. 😬

It feels like everyone’s acting like it’s some massive taboo now. Like, since when did being honest about what it actually takes to get things done become off-limits? It’s becoming a total unspoken rule to pretend those conditions don't exist just to stay polite. What a joke. 😁 🙂

crimsonbison10 said:Don't worry, Father, everything is under control. We only brought up the physical stuff to keep the casual bystanders on this ridiculous thread from getting a Hollywood-style, romanticized view of martial arts and all the psychological baggage attached to them. I'll just bow out of this "expert" debate now.🙈

Without order and discipline, you've got nothing. Period. The issue is just that discipline isn't the only thing you need to actually achieve something. 🙂

I'm not trying to kick anyone out—this thread could actually be useful for anyone looking to broaden their perspective by seeing the same subject from two different angles. Though, honestly, I think fighters often stay quiet about certain things just because they're terrified of being laughed at, so they just stick rigidly to "the method." 😉

When we all pull together, we can push back against those prejudices... hehehe. 😉

It's just like on the MMA forums; everyone here is still fighting over whose dad is the toughest. Only difference is, the "dad" here is a little less material and a lot harder to spot, hahaha.

Paul Campbell3 said:Without order and discipline, you've got nothing. Period. The issue is just that discipline isn't the only thing you need to actually achieve something. 🙂

I'm not trying to kick anyone out—this thread could actually be useful for anyone looking to broaden their perspective by seeing the same subject from two different angles. Though, honestly, I think fighters often stay quiet about certain things just because they're terrified of being laughed at, so they just stick rigidly to "the method." 😉

When we all pull together, we can push back against those prejudices... hehehe. 😉

It's just like on the MMA forums; everyone here is still fighting over whose dad is the toughest. Only difference is, the "dad" here is a little less material and a lot harder to spot, hahaha.

I can get behind that. But look, it’s the bedrock. Especially during those first ten or twenty years 😁 when you're just trying to find your footing—it’s probably the most critical factor there is. You can't even start building the actual structure until that foundation is set.

Nicole Thompson76 said:I’m honestly not even sure if I’m reading a thread about a martial art here. Morihei Ueshiba called it the "peaceful art" because you can actually defend yourself without causing massive, unnecessary damage—unlike those old-school styles where the whole goal was basically just to kill someone with a single strike if you got lucky. It wasn't meant to be some mystical way to meditate all day, conjure up transcendental energy, or shoot energy balls out of your palms to knock people out.

But man, everyone in here seems so full of themselves and their "ki." It’s like everyone’s already achieved total enlightenment and tapped into the universal cosmic flow just by sitting around meditating 24/7, while Morihei Ueshiba himself was humble enough to say things like, "I've only realized a small part of it."

At the end of the day, if you don't actually carry that spirit of peace within you, practicing Judo isn't going to magically develop it for you.

I disagree. You absolutely have to meditate. Without meditation, you can't master any serious martial art!

crimsonbison10 said:There's a kernel of truth there, I suppose. But honestly? Treating martial arts—or any combat sport, really—as if you can just sideline the grueling physical conditioning is equally absurd.

Absolutely. You have to put in the grueling physical work. Without intense conditioning, you aren't going to excel at any martial art!

Since it looks like there's a bit of a debate going on regarding the topic here—and I honestly don't have the bandwidth right now to write a novel—please, let's keep the off-topic chatter and bickering to a minimum.

1. Look, this isn't a contest over whose bokken is bigger, whose ki is stronger, or whose dad is more impressive. It doesn't matter.
2. Obviously, you need to actually train aikido physically, but we can't exactly do that on an online forum.
3. There are plenty of different styles out there, and sure, some might be better for self-defense, but we're focusing on the philosophical and spiritual foundations of aikido here—so let's stick to that if we can.
4. I’d love to hear your personal stories about how practicing aikido has actually affected your life.
5. Is there a fundamental difference in approach between, say, aikido and karate (aside from the actual techniques)?
...

Jesse Allen2 said:Exactly—without love, fighters are just wasting their lives away! 🤷

Look, love isn't some fleeting emotion 🙂-
you've gotta build up emotional intelligence. That basically means keeping your ego on a leash. I'm not saying kill the ego off entirely, just learn how to reel it in when things get heavy.

Paul Campbell3 said:You aren't just reading a thread about martial arts; you're reading a thread about the intersection of martial arts and spirituality.

There's barely any difference between some of the people debating here and the crowd on most combat sports forums, so there’s really no point in acting surprised. 😉

Your last sentence hits the mark. And regarding that first paragraph? To actually get what Morihei was talking about, you'd need to understand a huge part of Omoto's teachings too. 😉

"The art of peace is a religion that is not a religion; it perfects and completes all religions." — Morihei Ueshiba
So, you don't strictly *need* to understand Omoto-kyo to get the gist. To truly wrap my head around Omoto-kyo, I’d have to be actively practicing it or following it like a disciple—which definitely influenced aikido, sure, but it doesn't define the whole thing.

Nicole Thompson76 said:"The art of peace is a religion that is not a religion; it perfects and completes all religions." — Morihei Ueshiba
So, you don't strictly *need* to understand Omoto-kyo to get the gist. To truly wrap my head around Omoto-kyo, I’d have to be actively practicing it or following it like a disciple—which definitely influenced aikido, sure, but it doesn't define the whole thing.

Look, that first sentence basically gives you the gist of the whole Omoto principle right there—you don't have to be a follower of Omoto to get it. But at the same time, trying to interpret Morihei from a spiritual angle without knowing the core principle is just as incomplete and half-baked. 😉

Btw, Nicole Thompson76, what are you training in?

Jesse Allen2 said:I disagree. You absolutely have to meditate. Without meditation, you can't master any serious martial art!

As far as I can tell, we're talking about a martial art here, not a meditation course. Not sure why you decided to quote me with that, though—I never actually said anything against meditation in the first place.
For those of you putting way too much weight on meditation while basically ignoring the actual "taijutsu" side of things, just be careful you don't end up looking like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

Look, meditation isn't the main event in any martial art—it's more of a supporting act, and that goes for everything, not just aikido. Its whole purpose is to help you find some calm, learn how to breathe properly, and stuff like that... it's not meant to be some way to conjure up devastating internal energy or whatever mystical powers people dream about.

eisenfaust said:.... and those Yoshigasakijev seminars.

Those Yoshigasakijev seminars are actually pretty practical. You just have to know how to listen, I guess...

Nicole Thompson76 said:I’m honestly not even sure if I’m reading a thread about a martial art here. Morihei Ueshiba called it the "peaceful art" because you can actually defend yourself without causing massive, unnecessary damage—unlike those old-school styles where the whole goal was basically just to kill someone with a single strike if you got lucky. It wasn't meant to be some mystical way to meditate all day, conjure up transcendental energy, or shoot energy balls out of your palms to knock people out.

But man, everyone in here seems so full of themselves and their "ki." It’s like everyone’s already achieved total enlightenment and tapped into the universal cosmic flow just by sitting around meditating 24/7, while Morihei Ueshiba himself was humble enough to say things like, "I've only realized a small part of it."

At the end of the day, if you don't actually carry that spirit of peace within you, practicing Judo isn't going to magically develop it for you.

Yeah, you're definitely reading a martial arts thread—just one with a heavy focus on philosophy and the potential for spiritual growth through training. That doesn't mean all this philosophizing replaces actual practice; it just means you can't physically train on this specific topic, you can only talk about it.
If you're not into the chat, that's fine, but let others talk if they want to.

Morihei called it an art of peace because it can be used for defense without causing excessive harm (unlike a lot of older styles where the goal was to kill someone with a single strike), not because you're supposed to meditate, generate transcendental energy, or shoot energy blasts from your palms to disable opponents.

Different people interpret what Morihei did and said in all sorts of ways.
Even among his closest associates and students, there are wildly different interpretations and various evolutions of aikido styles—which, again, are built on specific ideas regarding the philosophical, energetic, and spiritual foundation of the art.
I don't know where you got the notion that you alone know exactly what Morihei thought about the relationship between meditation, transcendental energy, the "art of peace," and aikido.

Stripping the philosophical, energetic, and spiritual aspects away from aikido—to me, that's just gutting it. If you do that, it’s not even worth mentioning; it becomes just another "skill" focused on how to most efficiently hurt someone—and if we're talking efficiency, a handgun is probably a much better tool.

Everyone here is so full of themselves and their "kiai"—they act like they've all found themselves and tapped into universal cosmic energy through meditating all day, while Morihei himself would simply say, "I understood a part of Ikkyu."

Where exactly did you see everyone being "full of themselves"?
And how do you know someone hasn't actually found themselves or tapped into some universal cosmic energy?
Who told you that?

If someone doesn't carry the art of peace within them, practicing aikido certainly won't develop it.

So, according to this, there are only two kinds of people in the world—those who carry the art of peace inside them and those who don't?!

Nicole Thompson76 said:As far as I can tell, we're talking about a martial art here, not a meditation course. Not sure why you decided to quote me with that, though—I never actually said anything against meditation in the first place.
For those of you putting way too much weight on meditation while basically ignoring the actual "taijutsu" side of things, just be careful you don't end up looking like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

Look, meditation isn't the main event in any martial art—it's more of a supporting act, and that goes for everything, not just aikido. Its whole purpose is to help you find some calm, learn how to breathe properly, and stuff like that... it's not meant to be some way to conjure up devastating internal energy or whatever mystical powers people dream about.

Is anyone here actually offended by this?

For those of you putting all the weight on meditation while barely touching "taijutsu"—just be careful you don't end up with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

We've got a YouTube channel ready for the race. 😍
Ueshiba
Ueshiba
Ueshiba
Looks like even the master wasn't exactly keeping a close eye on his own training results at the end. 😉

Meditation isn't the main event—it’s more like a supporting act for all martial arts, not just aikido. At its core, it's there to help you find some calm and actually learn how to breathe properly—not to unlock some devastating internal energy or any other mystical superpower.

And again—was someone actually claiming that meditation is the core element of BV?
Then again—how can you be so sure you actually know what it's for?
Maybe for some people, aikido is actually just a gateway to meditation?
I even get the feeling that, after a certain point, it became incredibly important to Ueshiba—he actually mentions his daily rituals in one of the videos.
Or do you honestly think the old man just wanted to spend his entire life defending himself against bullies and teaching people some basic self-defense moves? this one ?

Anyway, here are a few of his own descriptions of where all that relentless, grueling training and the obsession with becoming the strongest man alive actually led him:

The actual birth of Aikido came as The result of Three instances of spiritual awakening that Ueshiba experienced. The First happened in 1925 , after Ueshiba Had defeated a naval officer's wooden sword attacks—completely unarmed and without landing a single blow—and then just wandered out to his garden to have a massive spiritual epiphany.

“ It was like the whole universe just shuddered under my feet—suddenly, this golden spirit erupted from the earth, wrapped itself around me, and turned my entire being into gold. Everything felt weightless. In that moment, I could actually hear what the birds were whispering, and there was this sudden, crystal-clear connection to the mind of God, the creator of everything.

That’s when it finally clicked for me: the true heart of budo is divine love—that deep, protective instinct for every living thing. It isn't about using brute strength to take someone down, nor is it some weapon meant to drive the world toward ruin. True Budo is about aligning yourself with the rhythm of the universe—maintaining global peace while nurturing, protecting, and helping everything in nature truly flourish.
”

Then there was the second breakthrough back in 1940, when

"It was about 2 am, right in the middle of my misogi practice, and everything just... vanished. I completely blanked on every single martial technique I’d ever mastered. Suddenly, the moves my teachers taught me felt entirely different—they weren't tools for tossing people around anymore. They became ways to nurture life, wisdom, and character."

Finally, in 1942—right in the thick of the most brutal fighting of WWII—Ueshiba Had a Vision of The " Great Spirit of Peace".

"The Way of The Warrior Has been misunderstood. It isn't some tool meant for killing or destruction. Honestly, anyone looking to turn this into a competition to outdo their neighbor is missing the entire point. Breaking, hurting, or destroying someone? That's the lowest thing a person can do. The real Way of a Warrior is to prevent such slaughter—it’s an Art of Peace, powered by love."

Hopefully that clears things up a bit?!
We’re looking at Aikido principles—the psycho-physiological impact, the energy aspect (if we’re even calling it that), health benefits, social dynamics... basically everything else you could potentially spin into "spiritual growth" through martial arts training. Though, honestly, it feels like some of those elements might be a little less emphasized in things like Karate, Judo, or Jiu-Jitsu?

PS
It just reminded me of this massage I got after a session back in the States.
I actually lucked out and had one of those black belts work on me.
Hands down, the best massage I've ever had. 👍

Yeah, you're definitely reading this thread as a deep dive into the philosophy and the potential for spiritual growth through training. That doesn't mean all this philosophizing can actually replace the physical work—it just means that on this specific topic, we aren't here to sweat, we're just here to talk about it.
If you're cool with just chatting, fine by me, but let others have their say if they want to.

Why does my disagreement with how a martial art should be approached necessarily mean I don't want to talk, or stop others from talking, about the same thing?

Different people interpret what Morihei was doing and saying in all sorts of ways.
Even among his closest inner circle and students, you see various interpretations and different evolutions of aikido styles (which, again, are rooted in specific ideas about the philosophical, energetic, and spiritual foundation of the art).
I don't know where you got the idea that you somehow have the definitive answer on what Morihei intended regarding the relationship between meditation, transcendental energy, the art of peace, and aikido?

Stripping away the philosophical, energetic, and spiritual side of aikido is, in my eyes, basically gutting it—and if it were just that, it wouldn't even be worth mentioning to me. It would just be another "skill," just another way to efficiently hurt someone; and honestly, if we're talking efficiency, a Glock is probably a much better tool for that.

I just can't get on board with the idea that the "art of peace"—especially back then—was something that could, or should, be interpreted in so many different ways. Like I said, back in the day, plenty of arts were trained specifically to kill, whereas aikido clearly aims to cause minimal harm.

As for debating the approach to aikido, its philosophy, or the training methods... I won't even go there, because we'd be here forever. I'm not stripping away any aspects of aikido, but I am also asserting that it isn't the only martial art with a background, a philosophy, and meditative practices. Almost every martial art has some version of that, but it's not what defines them, nor is it the primary focus of most combat arts.

And where exactly did you see people here acting like they've "fully realized themselves and their ki"?
And how do you know someone hasn't actually reached that level of self-realization and connection to universal cosmic energy?
Who's getting under your skin this much?

Well, it just seems like certain "spiritualists" act like they know everything about everything—like they've already mastered themselves, the universe, and ki. To claim you know exactly what ki is when you don't even have years of experience in a martial art is a stretch, and that’s me being polite.
Nobody's trying to push my buttons, it's just this specific way of approaching a martial art that bugs me. Spirituality and the supposed presence of ki come from years of dedicated training and commitment, yet here we have beginners (or maybe not even beginners) trying to define everything and split aikido into "the style where people fight" and "the style where they don't." But hey, maybe that's just me—maybe those are just fancy nicknames for Shin Shin Toitsu and Yoshinkan?

Was anyone actually disputing that?

Jesse Allen2 said:I disagree. You absolutely have to meditate. Without meditation, you can't master any serious martial art!

We’ve got our own YouTube channel for that too.
It almost seems like even the master himself wasn't obsessing over the end results of his training at the very end.

Look, you can't be hyper-focused on training results when you're getting that old. Honestly, it happens even earlier sometimes—where you're just going through the motions of the techniques, purely through movement, without any physical contact, simply because you already know exactly what's coming next and don't need the physical grind to pull it off. There's actually a specific term for that, though I'm blanking on it right now.

In various Karate styles, they train breathing and meditation all the time, too. The issue is that we Americans tend to pigeonhole meditation solely into Aikido, while viewing everything else as just being about striking and destruction—as if Aikido is the only one meant for meditation.

If Claude Pellerin, an Aikikai 7th dan with God knows how much continuous training under his belt, doesn't grasp the concept of Ki, then you can see why I reacted the way I did.

My bad if I crashed your Dojo and disrupted your AI or your KI. 🧐

Nicole Thompson76 said:

Yeah, you're definitely reading this thread as a deep dive into the philosophy and the potential for spiritual growth through training. That doesn't mean all this philosophizing can actually replace the physical work—it just means that on this specific topic, we aren't here to sweat, we're just here to talk about it.
If you're cool with just chatting, fine by me, but let others have their say if they want to.

Why does my disagreement with how a martial art should be approached necessarily mean I don't want to talk, or stop others from talking, about the same thing?

Different people interpret what Morihei was doing and saying in all sorts of ways.
Even among his closest inner circle and students, you see various interpretations and different evolutions of aikido styles (which, again, are rooted in specific ideas about the philosophical, energetic, and spiritual foundation of the art).
I don't know where you got the idea that you somehow have the definitive answer on what Morihei intended regarding the relationship between meditation, transcendental energy, the art of peace, and aikido?

Stripping away the philosophical, energetic, and spiritual side of aikido is, in my eyes, basically gutting it—and if it were just that, it wouldn't even be worth mentioning to me. It would just be another "skill," just another way to efficiently hurt someone; and honestly, if we're talking efficiency, a Glock is probably a much better tool for that.

I just can't get on board with the idea that the "art of peace"—especially back then—was something that could, or should, be interpreted in so many different ways. Like I said, back in the day, plenty of arts were trained specifically to kill, whereas aikido clearly aims to cause minimal harm.

As for debating the approach to aikido, its philosophy, or the training methods... I won't even go there, because we'd be here forever. I'm not stripping away any aspects of aikido, but I am also asserting that it isn't the only martial art with a background, a philosophy, and meditative practices. Almost every martial art has some version of that, but it's not what defines them, nor is it the primary focus of most combat arts.

And where exactly did you see people here acting like they've "fully realized themselves and their ki"?
And how do you know someone hasn't actually reached that level of self-realization and connection to universal cosmic energy?
Who's getting under your skin this much?

Well, it just seems like certain "spiritualists" act like they know everything about everything—like they've already mastered themselves, the universe, and ki. To claim you know exactly what ki is when you don't even have years of experience in a martial art is a stretch, and that’s me being polite.
Nobody's trying to push my buttons, it's just this specific way of approaching a martial art that bugs me. Spirituality and the supposed presence of ki come from years of dedicated training and commitment, yet here we have beginners (or maybe not even beginners) trying to define everything and split aikido into "the style where people fight" and "the style where they don't." But hey, maybe that's just me—maybe those are just fancy nicknames for Shin Shin Toitsu and Yoshinkan?

Was anyone actually disputing that?

We’ve got our own YouTube channel for that too.
It almost seems like even the master himself wasn't obsessing over the end results of his training at the very end.

Look, you can't be hyper-focused on training results when you're getting that old. Honestly, it happens even earlier sometimes—where you're just going through the motions of the techniques, purely through movement, without any physical contact, simply because you already know exactly what's coming next and don't need the physical grind to pull it off. There's actually a specific term for that, though I'm blanking on it right now.

In various Karate styles, they train breathing and meditation all the time, too. The issue is that we Americans tend to pigeonhole meditation solely into Aikido, while viewing everything else as just being about striking and destruction—as if Aikido is the only one meant for meditation.

If Claude Pellerin, an Aikikai 7th dan with God knows how much continuous training under his belt, doesn't grasp the concept of Ki, then you can see why I reacted the way I did.

My bad if I crashed your Dojo and disrupted your AI or your KI. 🧐

Look, Claude Pellerin understands exactly what Ki is. It seems to you that you don't know him very well, and frankly, you might be missing the mark on Ki itself.
Best, 🙂

I still don't get why some people are so hell-bent on framing this thread as an attempt to promote "non-training" martial arts? 😕

Personally, I’m the first one to say that if you aren't approaching training with total seriousness—just pure, relentless practice, sometimes even at the cost of personal sacrifices 😁—then you’ve got nothing. Period. Doesn't matter if it's Aikido, drawing, cooking, or whatever else you want to list.

If I'm reading this right, the goal here is to dive a bit deeper into the spiritual side of things, which I totally support. In my opinion, training without contemplation just turns into mindless automation.

Just like contemplation without actual work becomes pure bullshit. 😁

Being exclusively grounded, or being exclusively spiritual, are both useless extremes. You have to dance right between "heaven and earth."

Someone mentioned earlier that talking about Ki is pointless unless you've spent years practicing a martial art—well, there are plenty of people who understand Ki perfectly fine without ever having stepped foot in a dojo, let alone starting to train Yu.
Ki is just one of many names for prana, orgone, ether, chi, etc.

Maybe if people showed a little less arrogance and a little more an open mind, they'd realize you can actually learn something from this thread that goes beyond just technique. 😉

Of course, you can always choose to stick to the general attitude of the crowd over at Bank of America who just sit back and sneer at what's being posted here. 🙂
And hey, that's your choice. 😉
But anyone who thinks they're always and exclusively right is basically slamming the door on any chance to learn something new.
Every single martial art and every single session is an opportunity to relearn something or gain a fresh insight into what you're doing.
This thread shouldn't be any different.