Why are religious people filling up prisons?

swiftcobra15 RegularOP

305 messages
joined Dec 2002

#1 · Jan 8, 2003

The USA is essentially a nation of inmates and convicts. We have more prisoners per capita than anyone else on the planet.
But who actually ends up behind bars? Take a look at these figures:

STUDIES: ATHEISTS SUPPLY LESS THAN 1% OF PRISON POPULATIONS
by Wayne Aiken, North Carolina Director
AMERICAN ATHEISTS

I’m often surprised by people telling me, "You're an Atheist? You probably don't feel any guilt when committing a crime." That couldn't be more wrong. If we actually take a close look at our prison populations, the reality tells a completely different story.

In "The New Criminology," Max d. Schlapp and Edward E. Smith note that after analyzing data across two generations of statisticians, the ratio of convicts lacking religious upbringing is roughly 0.1%. Furthermore, W. T. Root, a Professor of Psychology at the University of Pittsburgh, studied 1,916 inmates and observed that "indifference to religion, due to thought, strengthens character." He noted that Unitarians, Agnostics, Atheists and Free-Thinkers are almost entirely absent from our penitentiaries.
During 10 years in Sing Sing, among those executed for murder, 65% were Catholics, 26% were Protestants, 6% were Hebrew, 2% were Pagans, and less than 1/3 of 1% were non-religious.

I don't think a word-for-word translation is necessary here. Essentially, there is a very distinct religious makeup among inmates. While we shouldn't treat these specific numbers as absolute law—since they represent a specific sample rather than the entire country—the ratios remain fairly consistent across various parts of the USA.

So, looking at the data from Sing Sing, we see that 56% of murderers were Catholic (given that about one in four Americans is Catholic), 26% were Protestant (roughly one in every two Americans), 6% were Jew, and everyone else was a tiny fraction.
Non-believers are represented in prison at a rate a hundred times lower than their actual share of the general population.

How do you all make sense of this? Why does it seem that Catholics are significantly more prone to crime, while Atheists are quite the opposite? 😕

Anonymous Veteran

3.6K messages
joined May 2005

#2 · Jan 8, 2003

Fair enough.
But if you want my personal take, here it is.
I honestly believe everyone is equally susceptible to committing crimes.
It’s just like health—though, if you look at the data, HIV/AIDS rates are actually lowest in many Islamic nations.
The USA is a global economic powerhouse on the world stage, yet when you look at what's happening domestically, the economy feels incredibly fragile.
Out of the 100 million homeless people worldwide, about 10 million are right here in the States.
Also, a huge number of homeless individuals end up committing crimes either before or after becoming unhoused, and they get processed through the legal system much faster because they can't even afford bail.
On top of that, plenty of people living on the streets intentionally commit offenses just to land in jail; despite the abuse from other inmates, it guarantees them a roof over their heads and a consistent meal.
Furthermore, a massive number of monotheists end up in mental institutions—and since we're talking about the USA, a good chunk of those are Catholics. There's also a high number of people struggling with mental health who have been to prison at least once due to some criminal misdemeanor.
There's one more thing—Catholics are one of the oldest established communities in the US. A lot of them come from traditional suburban families that might lean toward criminal behavior, where religion is more of a formality than a lifestyle.
😎

Grace Collins2 Newcomer

3 messages
joined Jan 2003

#3 · Jan 8, 2003

So, looking at the bottom line, in Alcatraz, about 56% of the murderers were Catholic—given that roughly one in four Americans is Catholic—while 26% were Protestant—which is about every second American—plus 6% were Jews, with very few others.
------------------------------------------------------------------

I think these posters are just talking about someone belonging to a certain group or demographic, rather than their actual religious convictions.
In the US, the vast majority identify as Catholic. But how much of that is a genuine desire to distinguish ourselves from Orthodox Christians or Muslims, and how much is an actual belief in God and all His attributes?
I think you get my point...
Therefore, concluding that most murderers are believers would be completely wrong. Just as it would be wrong to conclude that believers aren't murderers (or suicides) simply because their faith forbids it.
In the moment someone commits murder, they usually aren't leaning on the dogmas and norms instilled in them through upbringing and tradition. We can rule out religious fanatics—the cultists—but that's a different story entirely—a story about mass shooters driven by madness. I won't touch the psychology of killers, as that's a much broader subject...

Anonymous Veteran

3.6K messages
joined May 2005

#4 · Jan 8, 2003

Quincy:

Vega
When someone actually reaches the point of taking a life, they aren't exactly sitting there weighing the moral codes or social norms they were raised with.

👍 👍

Austin Grant3 Newcomer

5 messages
joined Jan 2003

#5 · Jan 8, 2003

...religion often serves as the perfect playground for primitive mindsets... sure, you'll find educated folks who are religious, but honestly, it’s an absolute absurdity...

...faith is probably their only lifeline once they end up behind bars. When nobody gives a damn about them anymore, they turn to God because they've been completely abandoned by society...

...poverty, injustice, misery, struggle, frustration, inequality... those are the actual pillars of religiosity. So, when you look at it that way...

swiftcobra15 RegularOP

305 messages
joined Dec 2002

#6 · Mar 26, 2004

Austin Grant3 said:Beyond that, you see a huge number of monotheists ending up in mental institutions. Given that we are talking about the USA, a significant portion of them are Catholics; plus, there's a massive number of people who have spent time in prison or at least picked up a criminal record at some point.
There’s another factor to consider—Catholics in the US represent one of the oldest communities here. Many come from those traditional suburban families that sometimes have a streak of criminality and only observe their faith on paper.
😎

😕 Actually, Catholics are a minority in the USA and arrived after the Protestants.

Eric Wells3 Active Member

61 messages
joined Dec 2005

#7 · Mar 26, 2004

Humanity committed a profound and distasteful error by attempting to locate the very source of morality outside of itself. Instead, people desperately hunt for it in God, or reincarnation, or whatever other nebulous concept they can conjure up to feel secure.

Consider a small child asking their grandmother why they aren't allowed to climb certain things, only to be met with the response, "God will punish you if you do."
And once that same child inevitably steals something for the first time and realizes that no bolt of lightning descended from the heavens to strike them down, questioning the validity of that entire moral framework becomes an absolute certainty.

However, if that grandmother were to instead say, "Because you wouldn't want someone to steal from you," then the fundamental nature of the conversation shifts entirely.

It has always been my firm assertion that atheists, on average, exhibit higher moral standards and pose significantly less harm to society than those who cling to religious faith.

Nathan Hayes31 Member

11 messages
joined Mar 2004

#8 · Mar 26, 2004

adriatic said:The USA is basically a nation of inmates and convicts. We have more prisoners than farmers, and when it comes to total population percentage, we lead the world.
But who actually ends up behind bars? Check out these numbers:

STUDIES: ATHEISTS SUPPLY LESS THAN 1% OF PRISON POPULATIONS
by Wayne Aiken, North Carolina Director
AMERICAN ATHEISTS

People always tell me, "You're an Atheist? I bet you have zero conscience when it comes to breaking the law." They couldn't be more wrong. If you actually look at prison demographics, the reality is totally different.

In "The New Criminology," Max d. Schlapp and Edward E. Smith note that after two generations of statistical study, the ratio of convicts lacking religious upbringing is roughly 1/10th of 1%. W. T. Root, a Psychology Professor at the University of Pittsburgh, studied 1,916 inmates and noted, "Indifference to religion, due to thought, strengthens character," pointing out that Unitarians, Agnostics, Atheists and Free-Thinkers were almost entirely missing from penitentiaries.
During 10 years in Sing Sing, among those executed for murder, 65% were Catholics, 26% were Protestants, 6% were Hebrew, 2% were Pagan, and less than 1/3 of 1% were non-religious.

I don't think a full translation is necessary. Basically, it shows a distinct religious makeup among inmates. Don't take these specific numbers as absolute gospel—they aren't meant to represent the entire country—but the ratios hold true across other parts of the USA too.

So, looking at the bottom line, within Sing Sing, murderers were 56% Catholic (even though every fourth American is Catholic), 26% Protestant (every second American), 6% Jew, and everyone else was negligible.
Non-believers are represented a hundred times less than their actual share of the general population.

How do you explain that? Why are Catholics so prone to crime while non-believers are the exact opposite? 😕

Because there are hardly any non-believers in the USA anyway...

bluewolf4 Newcomer

4 messages
joined Mar 2004

#9 · Mar 26, 2004

It's because believers are weak-willed, and when people lack strength, they tend to fall into madness they can't even control.

Rebecca Cox2 Active Member

70 messages
joined Mar 2004

#10 · Mar 26, 2004

Nathan Hayes31 said:That's because there are hardly any non-believers in the USA, you fool!
S.

Haha! Actually—to your regret—that isn't true at all.

Back in 1990, Atheists and Agnostics made up about 8.0% of the population, but by 2001, that jumped to 14.2%. If anyone wants to dig into the rest of the data, they can check it out here.

Besides, Mljacko makes a pretty solid point.

Catholics often face their biggest "reality check" as they grow up. Why? Because what they were taught by their parents, the church, or school is often wildly inconsistent with their actual life experiences. That "gap" starts appearing as early as elementary school...

Just as the widening gap between the rich and the poor (look—there goes the USA leading the way again) creates friction between different social groups, that massive disconnect between "what I was told to expect" and "what I've actually seen with my own eyes" can trigger intense cognitive tension. Depending on other factors, certain parts of the population might even react to that frustration in destructive ways...

Nathan Hayes31 Member

11 messages
joined Mar 2004

#11 · Mar 26, 2004

Rebecca Cox2 says:
Hahaha! Unfortunately for you, that’s just wrong.

Back in 1990, Atheists and Agnostics made up 8.0%, jumping to 14.2% by 2001. If anyone actually cares about the rest of the stats, they can check here.

Out of that 8%, 99.9% are nothing but criminals. Nobody gives a damn about the other 0.1%!
Where on earth are you getting this documentation? Unbelievable.
S. hahaha🙂

Jesse Lewis2 Newcomer

9 messages
joined Mar 2004

#12 · Mar 27, 2004

I honestly think most prisoners in the US are undereducated, so if you ask them about their faith, they’ll just reflexively name whatever denomination their parents belonged to without actually believing a word of it myself.

That's why I don't see this study as being relevant at all.

graniteowl88 Regular

322 messages
joined Apr 2011

#13 · Mar 27, 2004

How do you explain this? Why are Catholics seemingly more prone to crime?

Based on the estimates, it looks like the majority (Protestants) are actually the ones prosecuting Catholics!

However, I suspect a huge number of incarcerated Catholics are of Hispanic descent, which would imply both a racial and a socioeconomic dimension!

graniteowl88 Regular

322 messages
joined Apr 2011

#14 · Mar 27, 2004

"Why are Catholics so prone to crime?"

If you want an answer that actually satisfies you, try this: "Because of the criminal organization known as the Vatican!"

Got it?

graniteowl88 Regular

322 messages
joined Apr 2011

#15 · Mar 27, 2004

Sennacherib said:I believe most prisoners in the USA are poorly educated. If you ask them about their faith, they will simply state whatever denomination their parents belonged to, regardless of whether they actually hold any personal convictions.

Therefore, I find this study completely irrelevant.

Anyone who truly knows the USA would agree with me: American religiosity is practically non-existent!

graniteowl88 Regular

322 messages
joined Apr 2011

#16 · Mar 27, 2004

graniteowl88 said:Anyone who actually knows the USA would agree with me: American religiosity is at an all-time low!

If you are true philosophers, you will understand why the atheist Soviet empire and its satellites failed.

They will fail on a personal level too!

Nicole James Regular

313 messages
joined Dec 2010

#17 · Mar 27, 2004

People generally tend to value and respect what they’ve built from the ground up—what they’ve actually earned through their own sweat and effort—much more than something just handed to them on a silver platter. It follows, then, that much like how Mickey Mouse puts it, an atheist might hold a deeper commitment to moral standards they’ve constructed themselves through logic and personal reflection, rather than a believer who simply accepts a set of ready-made, unchangeable rules laid out in ancient texts.

graniteowl88 Regular

322 messages
joined Apr 2011

#18 · Mar 27, 2004

An atheist adheres far more strictly to moral norms derived from their own logic and reasoning.

We already know that! I mean, we all see the reality of the American prison system compared to how things functioned under an atheist regime!

I believe we also recognize how communism perfected a specific kind of tolerance based solely on its own ideology!

It is simply applied philosophy in action!

mistyfox812 Regular

295 messages
joined Mar 2004

#19 · Mar 27, 2004

WeM said:Look, we get it! Seriously, we all know how American prisons are compared to what they were like back in that atheist empire era!

I mean, we totally realize how communism basically perfected "tolerance" based on its own weird way of thinking and perceiving things!

It's like... applied philosophy or whatever!

Totally. Communism functioned just like some kind of atheist religion—you know, with its priests, rituals, holidays, and all that stuff. It’s similar to how people view Confucianism or Buddhism as religions even though there isn't a God involved.

But then you hit that wall where true philosophical doubt—like what Descartes talked about—inevitably makes you lose your bearings. Because, honestly, philosophizing means letting go of every single crutch and questioning everything. Descartes suggested this idea of a "provisional morality," kind of like a temporary code to live by while you're in that doubting phase, until you finally find a solid foundation to hold onto—one you actually realize is somewhat arbitrary. I feel like a lot of smart "religious" folks take this exact stance: since it's impossible for everyone to arrive at morality through pure logic, they figure it's better to just pick an arbitrary religious moral than to have no moral compass at all.

analogpanther22 Newcomer

1 message
joined Mar 2004

#20 · Mar 27, 2004

Secundus said:Out of that 8%, 99.9% of them are nothing but criminals. S.🙂

Do you honestly believe that?

Why are religious people filling up prisons?

🔗 Similar threads