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Spirituality

Started by Larry Moore49 · · 👁 5 views · 28 replies

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Participants Larry Moore49wearyowl29Ryan Wilson2Zachary Green2AJames Cruz6Patrick Chase2Edward Scott8Roger Hall15John Walker74Timothy King3Rachel BishopJason Johnson4Paul Campbell3Jack Harris3Nancy Chase2
Jason Johnson4 Jason Johnson4 Active Member
130 messages
joined Dec 2003
#21 ·
Darkness

I’ve always kind of viewed myself as a decent guy—someone generally good-hearted, respected, maybe just tripping up on a few minor flaws here and there. But then it hits me: the real danger isn't just making mistakes; it’s when people commit sins out of sheer ignorance.

I see the unintended damage
caused by people acting out of "love" for helpless children...

I see a flicker of cruelty
in those who are zealously religious...

I see well-meaning Pharisees
gathering evidence against Jesus
convinced it’s their moral duty to get him out of the way...
Honestly, it scares me
that I might catch whatever sickness
afflicts those high-ranking clergy and Pharisees.

They were so damn certain,
so absolutely convinced they held the truth,
totally shut off from any other perspective or chance at change...
I think about people I know who act exactly like that...
And then, I start thinking about myself...

The Pharisees were judges.
To them, people were either good or bad. Period.
There was zero room for nuance
once they decided someone was a "bad" person...
I think about people who put on that exact persona...
I think about myself...
When I make a mental list of the "bad" people in my life,
I can't help but wonder if, deep down,
they actually have better hearts than I do...

Those Pharisees were establishment types.
They were terrified of rocking the boat...
I think about myself...

Pharisees were power hungry.
They’d coerce you into being "good" just to serve their own interests.
They couldn't stand the idea of letting anyone be free...
Once again, I'm thinking about myself...

In the end, the Pharisee just folds.
He could see the accused person standing before him was innocent,
but he lacked the holy backbone
to stand up to his peers and actually speak his mind...
It makes me feel a bit heavy, thinking about my own fear of offending someone,
of disagreeing with the crowd,
of this desperate need to be liked...

I’m not much better than the people who killed the Savior.
All I can really say is, "Lord, I am a sinner.
Have mercy on me."...
And I can almost hear Him answering me softly:
"You are precious to my heart, my child."
What is He trying to tell me?...

I try to look through His eyes to discover
what He actually sees when He looks at me.
And even while He knows exactly how flawed I am,
He tells me, "You are dear to my heart."...

If I could use those same eyes, I’d look at "sinners"
—the modern-day Hitlers and Stalins...

I look at people I don't like... and I reject them...

Maybe I need His eyes
to bring me some compassion
and set me free from the Pharisee living inside me.

Anthony de Mello
Paul Campbell3 Paul Campbell3 Regular
259 messages
joined Feb 2004
#22 ·
God

We all know there’s something more out there than just this life; someone watching over US.
Knowing Him isn't something we can just control or force.
But I had this one moment, just a quick flash, where I realized we are nothing more than His shadow—and this whole world? It’s just our shadow.

🙏 🙏
James Cruz6 James Cruz6 Member
38 messages
joined Dec 2002
#23 ·
Dragonfly said:It isn't within our power to truly know Him.

That is such a beautiful sentiment...

I find myself wondering rhetorically...

Doesn't the act of understanding ourselves and learning how to love actually mean we are getting to know Him? 🙂

If we follow Descartes' logic—that knowing oneself is the key to knowing the world—then knowing ourselves must lead us back to Him. 🙂

Perhaps our true limitations aren't actual boundaries, but just the mental walls we build when we convince ourselves that certain truths are out of our reach or impossible to grasp...

Don't you think?
Paul Campbell3 Paul Campbell3 Regular
259 messages
joined Feb 2004
#24 ·
you missed the second part...😉 the one about the one-eyed guy...🙂

I honestly think knowing Him is tied to that whole Biblical thing; they say nobody has ever actually seen God face-to-face, except for Enoch. And if any of us were suddenly hit with an experience like that, we wouldn't even survive it..

Just some rambling here.. before my morning coffee kicks in..👋
Jack Harris3 Jack Harris3 Regular
451 messages
joined Dec 2002
#25 ·
Dragonfly said:And let's be honest, if any of us were actually subjected to an experience that direct... we wouldn't make it out alive..

You really think that makes sense? 😁
Paul Campbell3 Paul Campbell3 Regular
259 messages
joined Feb 2004
#26 ·
I’m just repeating what I read. I'm waiting for someone actually smart to weigh in on this. Honestly, I think we need to stop being so literal and look at this from a completely different angle.

At the end of the day, have logic and God ever actually played nice together?😁😉
James Cruz6 James Cruz6 Member
38 messages
joined Dec 2002
#27 ·
Dragonfly said:Ultimately, I find myself wondering if logic and God have ever truly walked hand in hand.😁 😉


To put things in my own words based on what Jung suggested, I feel that once God starts making perfect sense to us, we've probably lost our way or settled into a belief system that's just too small, because God is inherently paradoxical... and if you look through the Bible, you'll see plenty of those contradictions.

Anyway, Dragonfly, it’s really good to see you posting again, even if you haven't had your morning coffee yet.🙂
Jack Harris3 Jack Harris3 Regular
451 messages
joined Dec 2002
#28 ·
Dragonfly said:At the end of the day, have logic and God ever actually walked hand in hand?😁😉

Always. 😁 (James Cruz6, I actually find the existence of paradoxes to be perfectly logical. 😁)

Alright, let's just start from the premise that God exists and His word is truth, then we can really dig into this...

Enoch survived. Why?
a) Maybe God intentionally preserved him, which means He can intervene if He chooses—which makes sense, since He’s omnipotent, right?
b) Or maybe it was his faith that saved Enoch... That absolute, unwavering trust in God—which basically ends up being the same thing because God honored that trust.

No matter how you slice it, God is the one deciding who gets to survive.
Or, if you look at it from a different angle—maybe we're the ones deciding. 😁

I’m assuming we’re talking about physical death here, and honestly, I've never quite grasped what the actual difference is between dying today versus dying tomorrow?
On a personal, emotional level, sure, there's a massive difference, but if you step back and look at it more broadly... there isn't really one.
Panic would only make sense if we were inherently immortal, and meeting God carried the risk of losing that immortality...
Nancy Chase2 Nancy Chase2 Member
17 messages
joined Dec 2002
#29 ·
Xara said:Isn't loving your enemies just making it easier for them to destroy you? It's some kind of high-minded nonsense that only ends up hurting ourselves.

Once upon a time, there was a Man living on the coast. Driven by pure curiosity, he decided to build a boat and set out across the ocean to see what lay beyond the horizon. So, he crafts a boat—out of paper—and pushes off into the water.

On the second day of his voyage, the Man notices... (Oops!) there’s water in the boat. He searches the vessel and sure enough, there’s a hole letting the water in. He sticks his finger in the hole and, quite satisfied with his ingenious solution, continues his journey. By the fifth day, the Man realizes the water level is higher than before. He checks the boat again, though less thoroughly this time because one finger is already occupied plugging the first leak. He finds a second hole, and since his previous fix seemed to work, he simply sticks a second finger into the second hole and keeps going. The next day, the water keeps rising. Since he’s learned from experience that it’s always a hole, he doesn't bother looking for anything else; he finds the leak, jams in a third finger, and sails on.

One morning, somewhere around the sixth finger, he spots a Man approaching him—walking right across the surface of the water! When he reaches the boat, the Man on the Water says, "What's up, dude? Look at this! You see? Total disaster! *beep* ladies!! And..."

🤔

Cut!! rw..rw..rw..

One morning, somewhere around the sixth finger, he spots a Man approaching him—walking right across the surface of the water! When he reaches the boat, the Man on the Water says, "I notice there is water in your boat."

Man: No kidding, Sherlock! But don't sweat it, I found the holes and figured out a way to plug them.
Man on the Water: Yes, I see. You've plugged them with six fingers.
Man: Yeah, well, first it was one hole, so I used one finger, then a second hole and a second finger, and so on. It's a perfectly solid solution. I wouldn't have made it this far if it wasn't working.
Man on the Water: So, sticking your fingers in the holes didn't prevent new holes from forming? What are you going to do when you end up with eleven holes?
Man: Well, I've got fingers on my hands and feet. Heh. Twenty fingers total.
Man on the Water: But even that won't stop new holes from appearing. What happens when you hit twenty-one holes?
Man: What is this? You trying to be Miliunas? Ugh... I don't know what to do then. Here's my final answer: it's all because of the water. The water is to blame.
Man on the Water: Oh, the water was there long before you decided to go sailing, and it wouldn't have bothered you if you hadn't gone out. Besides, without water, there would be no fish, so you wouldn't have anything to eat.
Man: Hmm... yeah, maybe. So what am I supposed to do?
Man on the Water: You built a boat out of the wrong material for sailing on water. Go back to shore, build a new boat out of something different, and try again.
Man: But... but... it'll take me a hundred days to build that.
Man on the Water: Well, damn, the sooner you start, the sooner you'll be done. If you keep going like this, you're going to sink sooner or later. It's not a matter of *if*, it's a matter of *when*. I'm heading out.

Stay tuned. To be continued in our "wait and see" issue.
The little guy is over there on the right.😁

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