MTA low-floor trams

nimblescout50 said:Have you taken a ride on the Cityrunner yet?
When I talk about track construction, I’m talking about how the rails are anchored to the base.
As far as I know, they weren't using concrete bases 30 years ago.
The rail pads have improved, though.
They used to seal the track with concrete slabs.
Now, they're actually moving backward. They're ripping up the slabs and going back to asphalt.
The rails themselves don't even feel like traditional railway steel anymore;
instead, they just buy whatever expensive grooved rails they can find, regardless of whether they actually need them or not.

Yeah, I’m currently in Milwaukee. Let's just say it's performing better than the Amtrak models—and I’m talking strictly about handling and ride quality here, not the passenger amenities. Though, honestly, it’s a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison when you're testing on track that's three classes superior to what we usually deal with. It definitely beats out the Zurich option by a mile, though. Price-wise, we're looking at somewhere between 1.8 and 2.1 million USD, compared to the 1.3 million the Amtrak units would run you.
Austin is great too, honestly, but you can't even make that comparison—the gauge difference makes the whole thing a non-starter.

nimblescout50 said:Have you taken a ride on the Cityrunner yet?
When I talk about track construction, I’m talking about how the rails are anchored to the base.
As far as I know, they weren't using concrete bases 30 years ago.
The rail pads have improved, though.
They used to seal the track with concrete slabs.
Now, they're actually moving backward. They're ripping up the slabs and going back to asphalt.
The rails themselves don't even feel like traditional railway steel anymore;
instead, they just buy whatever expensive grooved rails they can find, regardless of whether they actually need them or not.

It covers everything—from the actual fill and drainage of the soakaway systems to the whole shock absorption setup.

nimblescout50 said:Have you taken a ride on the Cityrunner yet?
When I talk about track construction, I’m talking about how the rails are anchored to the base.
As far as I know, they weren't using concrete bases 30 years ago.
The rail pads have improved, though.
They used to seal the track with concrete slabs.
Now, they're actually moving backward. They're ripping up the slabs and going back to asphalt.
The rails themselves don't even feel like traditional railway steel anymore;
instead, they just buy whatever expensive grooved rails they can find, regardless of whether they actually need them or not.

It was quite the journey—starting through New Chicago, then dealing with that massive reconstruction back in '86/'87 for the Universiade.

nimblescout50 said:Have you taken a ride on the Cityrunner yet?
When I talk about track construction, I’m talking about how the rails are anchored to the base.
As far as I know, they weren't using concrete bases 30 years ago.
The rail pads have improved, though.
They used to seal the track with concrete slabs.
Now, they're actually moving backward. They're ripping up the slabs and going back to asphalt.
The rails themselves don't even feel like traditional railway steel anymore;
instead, they just buy whatever expensive grooved rails they can find, regardless of whether they actually need them or not.

Honestly, the craftsmanship has gone downhill. The current tracks running through, say, Jurišićev are just worse than what they built thirty years ago. It’s like we’ve actually regressed.

nimblescout50 said:Have you taken a ride on the Cityrunner yet?
When I talk about track construction, I’m talking about how the rails are anchored to the base.
As far as I know, they weren't using concrete bases 30 years ago.
The rail pads have improved, though.
They used to seal the track with concrete slabs.
Now, they're actually moving backward. They're ripping up the slabs and going back to asphalt.
The rails themselves don't even feel like traditional railway steel anymore;
instead, they just buy whatever expensive grooved rails they can find, regardless of whether they actually need them or not.

I’m convinced they’ve taken a massive step backward with these concrete slabs. Instead of using actual modern composites, they’re opting for some bizarre, cheap mixture that’s turned out to be a total disaster. The new slabs are just unnervingly smooth—it’s honestly dangerous how slick they get the second even a little bit of rain hits them.
When it comes to the tracks, it isn't even about whether they have a groove or not; it’s all about the steel quality. It's pretty obvious that the MTA is buying absolute junk—you can see it most clearly on the curves where the outer wheels just chew right through the rail.

Joseph Cox said:Yeah, I’m currently in Milwaukee. Let's just say it's performing better than the Amtrak models—and I’m talking strictly about handling and ride quality here, not the passenger amenities. Though, honestly, it’s a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison when you're testing on track that's three classes superior to what we usually deal with. It definitely beats out the Zurich option by a mile, though. Price-wise, we're looking at somewhere between 1.8 and 2.1 million USD, compared to the 1.3 million the Amtrak units would run you.
Austin is great too, honestly, but you can't even make that comparison—the gauge difference makes the whole thing a non-starter.

It covers everything—from the actual fill and drainage of the soakaway systems to the whole shock absorption setup.

It was quite the journey—starting through New Chicago, then dealing with that massive reconstruction back in '86/'87 for the Universiade.

Honestly, the craftsmanship has gone downhill. The current tracks running through, say, Jurišićev are just worse than what they built thirty years ago. It’s like we’ve actually regressed.

I’m convinced they’ve taken a massive step backward with these concrete slabs. Instead of using actual modern composites, they’re opting for some bizarre, cheap mixture that’s turned out to be a total disaster. The new slabs are just unnervingly smooth—it’s honestly dangerous how slick they get the second even a little bit of rain hits them.
When it comes to the tracks, it isn't even about whether they have a groove or not; it’s all about the steel quality. It's pretty obvious that the MTA is buying absolute junk—you can see it most clearly on the curves where the outer wheels just chew right through the rail.

You can really see just how much noise the TMK is making here.

Joseph Cox said:Yeah, I’m currently in Milwaukee. Let's just say it's performing better than the Amtrak models—and I’m talking strictly about handling and ride quality here, not the passenger amenities. Though, honestly, it’s a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison when you're testing on track that's three classes superior to what we usually deal with. It definitely beats out the Zurich option by a mile, though. Price-wise, we're looking at somewhere between 1.8 and 2.1 million USD, compared to the 1.3 million the Amtrak units would run you.
Austin is great too, honestly, but you can't even make that comparison—the gauge difference makes the whole thing a non-starter.

It covers everything—from the actual fill and drainage of the soakaway systems to the whole shock absorption setup.

It was quite the journey—starting through New Chicago, then dealing with that massive reconstruction back in '86/'87 for the Universiade.

Honestly, the craftsmanship has gone downhill. The current tracks running through, say, Jurišićev are just worse than what they built thirty years ago. It’s like we’ve actually regressed.

I’m convinced they’ve taken a massive step backward with these concrete slabs. Instead of using actual modern composites, they’re opting for some bizarre, cheap mixture that’s turned out to be a total disaster. The new slabs are just unnervingly smooth—it’s honestly dangerous how slick they get the second even a little bit of rain hits them.
When it comes to the tracks, it isn't even about whether they have a groove or not; it’s all about the steel quality. It's pretty obvious that the MTA is buying absolute junk—you can see it most clearly on the curves where the outer wheels just chew right through the rail.

So, what you're actually saying is that basically 90% of the track was laid without any concrete base at all. It’s like building a highway on top of loose sand and just hoping for the best—a total recipe for disaster down the line.

Joseph Cox said:Yeah, I’m currently in Milwaukee. Let's just say it's performing better than the Amtrak models—and I’m talking strictly about handling and ride quality here, not the passenger amenities. Though, honestly, it’s a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison when you're testing on track that's three classes superior to what we usually deal with. It definitely beats out the Zurich option by a mile, though. Price-wise, we're looking at somewhere between 1.8 and 2.1 million USD, compared to the 1.3 million the Amtrak units would run you.
Austin is great too, honestly, but you can't even make that comparison—the gauge difference makes the whole thing a non-starter.

It covers everything—from the actual fill and drainage of the soakaway systems to the whole shock absorption setup.

It was quite the journey—starting through New Chicago, then dealing with that massive reconstruction back in '86/'87 for the Universiade.

Honestly, the craftsmanship has gone downhill. The current tracks running through, say, Jurišićev are just worse than what they built thirty years ago. It’s like we’ve actually regressed.

I’m convinced they’ve taken a massive step backward with these concrete slabs. Instead of using actual modern composites, they’re opting for some bizarre, cheap mixture that’s turned out to be a total disaster. The new slabs are just unnervingly smooth—it’s honestly dangerous how slick they get the second even a little bit of rain hits them.
When it comes to the tracks, it isn't even about whether they have a groove or not; it’s all about the steel quality. It's pretty obvious that the MTA is buying absolute junk—you can see it most clearly on the curves where the outer wheels just chew right through the rail.

I don't know—it looks a bit better than it used to, I guess—but honestly, what does it matter? It’s all just a wash when you consider how things actually turn out.
Traffic is still a mess—just total gridlock—and those MTA trains feel like they’re hauling nothing but lead.

Joseph Cox said:Yeah, I’m currently in Milwaukee. Let's just say it's performing better than the Amtrak models—and I’m talking strictly about handling and ride quality here, not the passenger amenities. Though, honestly, it’s a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison when you're testing on track that's three classes superior to what we usually deal with. It definitely beats out the Zurich option by a mile, though. Price-wise, we're looking at somewhere between 1.8 and 2.1 million USD, compared to the 1.3 million the Amtrak units would run you.
Austin is great too, honestly, but you can't even make that comparison—the gauge difference makes the whole thing a non-starter.

It covers everything—from the actual fill and drainage of the soakaway systems to the whole shock absorption setup.

It was quite the journey—starting through New Chicago, then dealing with that massive reconstruction back in '86/'87 for the Universiade.

Honestly, the craftsmanship has gone downhill. The current tracks running through, say, Jurišićev are just worse than what they built thirty years ago. It’s like we’ve actually regressed.

I’m convinced they’ve taken a massive step backward with these concrete slabs. Instead of using actual modern composites, they’re opting for some bizarre, cheap mixture that’s turned out to be a total disaster. The new slabs are just unnervingly smooth—it’s honestly dangerous how slick they get the second even a little bit of rain hits them.
When it comes to the tracks, it isn't even about whether they have a groove or not; it’s all about the steel quality. It's pretty obvious that the MTA is buying absolute junk—you can see it most clearly on the curves where the outer wheels just chew right through the rail.

The concrete slab is gone—no more reinforcement, just raw asphalt now. It’s basically a step backward to when things were lower quality.
The tracks aren't exactly being watched—it’s just the MTA buses and trains tearing through those sharp curves like they've got somewhere better to be.
I honestly can't tell if they ever bother lubricating that specific section where it interfaces with the wheel flange—it feels like it's been neglected for ages. It’s getting to the point where the MTA cars screech much louder whenever they pass by than they used to. Just sounds like metal grinding on metal, you know?

nimblescout50 said:You can really see just how much noise the TMK is making here.

So, what you're actually saying is that basically 90% of the track was laid without any concrete base at all. It’s like building a highway on top of loose sand and just hoping for the best—a total recipe for disaster down the line.

I don't know—it looks a bit better than it used to, I guess—but honestly, what does it matter? It’s all just a wash when you consider how things actually turn out.
Traffic is still a mess—just total gridlock—and those MTA trains feel like they’re hauling nothing but lead.

The concrete slab is gone—no more reinforcement, just raw asphalt now. It’s basically a step backward to when things were lower quality.
The tracks aren't exactly being watched—it’s just the MTA buses and trains tearing through those sharp curves like they've got somewhere better to be.
I honestly can't tell if they ever bother lubricating that specific section where it interfaces with the wheel flange—it feels like it's been neglected for ages. It’s getting to the point where the MTA cars screech much louder whenever they pass by than they used to. Just sounds like metal grinding on metal, you know?

Actually, I’d argue the exact opposite. I remember riding it around Horvaćanski right after they finished the reconstruction—it felt seamless. Even over in Seattle, people were incredibly impressed with it. In fact, they ended up deciding to design their own streetcar from scratch, specifically incorporating several solutions borrowed from TMK.

nimblescout50 said:You can really see just how much noise the TMK is making here.

So, what you're actually saying is that basically 90% of the track was laid without any concrete base at all. It’s like building a highway on top of loose sand and just hoping for the best—a total recipe for disaster down the line.

I don't know—it looks a bit better than it used to, I guess—but honestly, what does it matter? It’s all just a wash when you consider how things actually turn out.
Traffic is still a mess—just total gridlock—and those MTA trains feel like they’re hauling nothing but lead.

The concrete slab is gone—no more reinforcement, just raw asphalt now. It’s basically a step backward to when things were lower quality.
The tracks aren't exactly being watched—it’s just the MTA buses and trains tearing through those sharp curves like they've got somewhere better to be.
I honestly can't tell if they ever bother lubricating that specific section where it interfaces with the wheel flange—it feels like it's been neglected for ages. It’s getting to the point where the MTA cars screech much louder whenever they pass by than they used to. Just sounds like metal grinding on metal, you know?

Yeah, up until '86. After that, it was just one massive overhaul. But you have to factor in how much of the track was still sitting on concrete sleepers—streets like El Paso, Ribnjak-Ksaverska, Mihaljevac-Dolje, Držićeva, Jukićeva-Jagićeva, and Zvonimirova.

nimblescout50 said:You can really see just how much noise the TMK is making here.

So, what you're actually saying is that basically 90% of the track was laid without any concrete base at all. It’s like building a highway on top of loose sand and just hoping for the best—a total recipe for disaster down the line.

I don't know—it looks a bit better than it used to, I guess—but honestly, what does it matter? It’s all just a wash when you consider how things actually turn out.
Traffic is still a mess—just total gridlock—and those MTA trains feel like they’re hauling nothing but lead.

The concrete slab is gone—no more reinforcement, just raw asphalt now. It’s basically a step backward to when things were lower quality.
The tracks aren't exactly being watched—it’s just the MTA buses and trains tearing through those sharp curves like they've got somewhere better to be.
I honestly can't tell if they ever bother lubricating that specific section where it interfaces with the wheel flange—it feels like it's been neglected for ages. It’s getting to the point where the MTA cars screech much louder whenever they pass by than they used to. Just sounds like metal grinding on metal, you know?

Even in other cities, these modern streetcars have roughly the same mass as the old TMK models—give or take 5%—so the weight isn't really the deciding factor here. The real issue is that they look significantly better. Or do they? Just take a look at Jurišićev. Thirty-two years ago, when those slabs were first laid down, everything was perfectly aligned, absolutely flawless. Now? They’re just a mess, staggered every other row like nobody bothered to line them up.

nimblescout50 said:You can really see just how much noise the TMK is making here.

So, what you're actually saying is that basically 90% of the track was laid without any concrete base at all. It’s like building a highway on top of loose sand and just hoping for the best—a total recipe for disaster down the line.

I don't know—it looks a bit better than it used to, I guess—but honestly, what does it matter? It’s all just a wash when you consider how things actually turn out.
Traffic is still a mess—just total gridlock—and those MTA trains feel like they’re hauling nothing but lead.

The concrete slab is gone—no more reinforcement, just raw asphalt now. It’s basically a step backward to when things were lower quality.
The tracks aren't exactly being watched—it’s just the MTA buses and trains tearing through those sharp curves like they've got somewhere better to be.
I honestly can't tell if they ever bother lubricating that specific section where it interfaces with the wheel flange—it feels like it's been neglected for ages. It’s getting to the point where the MTA cars screech much louder whenever they pass by than they used to. Just sounds like metal grinding on metal, you know?

How can you even suggest there aren't any signs left? They probably cleared them all out at the major intersections because the old-school masters and engineers—the ones who actually knew how to build things properly—have all retired. Now? The current crew couldn't even put together a kid's toy train set without making a mess of it.
You don't just grease the flanges. That’s not how it works. There are specific materials for that, plus a specialized groove treatment designed so the wheel "grinds" exactly the way it should. Engineers like Košak and Mandl understood that better than anyone sixty years ago. Even with the limited tech they had back then in the old MTA workshop, they turned out much better work than the sloppy, rushed jobs we see today. Honestly, though, why am I even surprised? Getting a job at an agency like the MTA is probably harder than getting a seat in Congress unless you have the right family connections.

Joseph Cox said:Actually, I’d argue the exact opposite. I remember riding it around Horvaćanski right after they finished the reconstruction—it felt seamless. Even over in Seattle, people were incredibly impressed with it. In fact, they ended up deciding to design their own streetcar from scratch, specifically incorporating several solutions borrowed from TMK.

Yeah, up until '86. After that, it was just one massive overhaul. But you have to factor in how much of the track was still sitting on concrete sleepers—streets like El Paso, Ribnjak-Ksaverska, Mihaljevac-Dolje, Držićeva, Jukićeva-Jagićeva, and Zvonimirova.

Even in other cities, these modern streetcars have roughly the same mass as the old TMK models—give or take 5%—so the weight isn't really the deciding factor here. The real issue is that they look significantly better. Or do they? Just take a look at Jurišićev. Thirty-two years ago, when those slabs were first laid down, everything was perfectly aligned, absolutely flawless. Now? They’re just a mess, staggered every other row like nobody bothered to line them up.

How can you even suggest there aren't any signs left? They probably cleared them all out at the major intersections because the old-school masters and engineers—the ones who actually knew how to build things properly—have all retired. Now? The current crew couldn't even put together a kid's toy train set without making a mess of it.
You don't just grease the flanges. That’s not how it works. There are specific materials for that, plus a specialized groove treatment designed so the wheel "grinds" exactly the way it should. Engineers like Košak and Mandl understood that better than anyone sixty years ago. Even with the limited tech they had back then in the old MTA workshop, they turned out much better work than the sloppy, rushed jobs we see today. Honestly, though, why am I even surprised? Getting a job at an agency like the MTA is probably harder than getting a seat in Congress unless you have the right family connections.

If memory serves, the Finc crowd wasn't exactly thrilled.
In reality, there was hardly any public feedback coming out of it at all.

Joseph Cox said:Actually, I’d argue the exact opposite. I remember riding it around Horvaćanski right after they finished the reconstruction—it felt seamless. Even over in Seattle, people were incredibly impressed with it. In fact, they ended up deciding to design their own streetcar from scratch, specifically incorporating several solutions borrowed from TMK.

Yeah, up until '86. After that, it was just one massive overhaul. But you have to factor in how much of the track was still sitting on concrete sleepers—streets like El Paso, Ribnjak-Ksaverska, Mihaljevac-Dolje, Držićeva, Jukićeva-Jagićeva, and Zvonimirova.

Even in other cities, these modern streetcars have roughly the same mass as the old TMK models—give or take 5%—so the weight isn't really the deciding factor here. The real issue is that they look significantly better. Or do they? Just take a look at Jurišićev. Thirty-two years ago, when those slabs were first laid down, everything was perfectly aligned, absolutely flawless. Now? They’re just a mess, staggered every other row like nobody bothered to line them up.

How can you even suggest there aren't any signs left? They probably cleared them all out at the major intersections because the old-school masters and engineers—the ones who actually knew how to build things properly—have all retired. Now? The current crew couldn't even put together a kid's toy train set without making a mess of it.
You don't just grease the flanges. That’s not how it works. There are specific materials for that, plus a specialized groove treatment designed so the wheel "grinds" exactly the way it should. Engineers like Košak and Mandl understood that better than anyone sixty years ago. Even with the limited tech they had back then in the old MTA workshop, they turned out much better work than the sloppy, rushed jobs we see today. Honestly, though, why am I even surprised? Getting a job at an agency like the MTA is probably harder than getting a seat in Congress unless you have the right family connections.

As far as I know, there were very few concrete sleepers, if any,
and honestly, most rail companies don't even bother with them today.

Joseph Cox said:Actually, I’d argue the exact opposite. I remember riding it around Horvaćanski right after they finished the reconstruction—it felt seamless. Even over in Seattle, people were incredibly impressed with it. In fact, they ended up deciding to design their own streetcar from scratch, specifically incorporating several solutions borrowed from TMK.

Yeah, up until '86. After that, it was just one massive overhaul. But you have to factor in how much of the track was still sitting on concrete sleepers—streets like El Paso, Ribnjak-Ksaverska, Mihaljevac-Dolje, Držićeva, Jukićeva-Jagićeva, and Zvonimirova.

Even in other cities, these modern streetcars have roughly the same mass as the old TMK models—give or take 5%—so the weight isn't really the deciding factor here. The real issue is that they look significantly better. Or do they? Just take a look at Jurišićev. Thirty-two years ago, when those slabs were first laid down, everything was perfectly aligned, absolutely flawless. Now? They’re just a mess, staggered every other row like nobody bothered to line them up.

How can you even suggest there aren't any signs left? They probably cleared them all out at the major intersections because the old-school masters and engineers—the ones who actually knew how to build things properly—have all retired. Now? The current crew couldn't even put together a kid's toy train set without making a mess of it.
You don't just grease the flanges. That’s not how it works. There are specific materials for that, plus a specialized groove treatment designed so the wheel "grinds" exactly the way it should. Engineers like Košak and Mandl understood that better than anyone sixty years ago. Even with the limited tech they had back then in the old MTA workshop, they turned out much better work than the sloppy, rushed jobs we see today. Honestly, though, why am I even surprised? Getting a job at an agency like the MTA is probably harder than getting a seat in Congress unless you have the right family connections.

Just look at the traffic volume Indianapolis handles.
Indianapolis has one of the busiest tracks in Europe, if not the whole continent.
The only place close to it is Lodz, and everyone else on the list is miles behind.

Joseph Cox said:Actually, I’d argue the exact opposite. I remember riding it around Horvaćanski right after they finished the reconstruction—it felt seamless. Even over in Seattle, people were incredibly impressed with it. In fact, they ended up deciding to design their own streetcar from scratch, specifically incorporating several solutions borrowed from TMK.

Yeah, up until '86. After that, it was just one massive overhaul. But you have to factor in how much of the track was still sitting on concrete sleepers—streets like El Paso, Ribnjak-Ksaverska, Mihaljevac-Dolje, Držićeva, Jukićeva-Jagićeva, and Zvonimirova.

Even in other cities, these modern streetcars have roughly the same mass as the old TMK models—give or take 5%—so the weight isn't really the deciding factor here. The real issue is that they look significantly better. Or do they? Just take a look at Jurišićev. Thirty-two years ago, when those slabs were first laid down, everything was perfectly aligned, absolutely flawless. Now? They’re just a mess, staggered every other row like nobody bothered to line them up.

How can you even suggest there aren't any signs left? They probably cleared them all out at the major intersections because the old-school masters and engineers—the ones who actually knew how to build things properly—have all retired. Now? The current crew couldn't even put together a kid's toy train set without making a mess of it.
You don't just grease the flanges. That’s not how it works. There are specific materials for that, plus a specialized groove treatment designed so the wheel "grinds" exactly the way it should. Engineers like Košak and Mandl understood that better than anyone sixty years ago. Even with the limited tech they had back then in the old MTA workshop, they turned out much better work than the sloppy, rushed jobs we see today. Honestly, though, why am I even surprised? Getting a job at an agency like the MTA is probably harder than getting a seat in Congress unless you have the right family connections.

So, you can see those slabs slowly disappearing from the tracks—it’s basically just a slow return to asphalt.
And we all know how that goes: asphalt lasts a few years, and then you're left dealing with potholes lining the rails.
Mandl and Košak were heavily involved in tramway development, among other things.
"Special grinding of the grooves where the flange 'grinds' against it..."
Honestly, that sounds like standard maintenance to me—I don't think anything revolutionary is happening here compared to how things used to be done.
They don't bother lubricating the rails anymore, though it wasn't always that way.
That lack of lubrication is one of the main reasons they wear out so fast, too.
Specifically, I'm talking about those tight-radius curves.

I feel a bit uneasy about this, but I find myself having to defend the MTA.
Honestly, I have no idea what you all are talking about.
These new streetcars are a massive step up from the old fleet—they’re more comfortable and, for goodness' sake, they break down way less often.
My one major gripe? That ridiculous seat layout.

I'm old enough to remember what transit was like back in the eighties and nineties. Back then, you'd hit a delay at every single corner because of some broken-down car; today, that almost never happens.
As for these claims about cars jumping the tracks, I just don't get it. We used to have derailments constantly. At the intersection of Vodnikov, Sava, and Jukićev, it felt like it happened once a month. Now? It simply doesn't happen anymore.

Then there's the noise. These newer models are significantly quieter than the old ones. The very first series they rolled out were a bit louder, but the current ones aren't.

Either my personal experience is completely off base, or we aren't even talking about the same streetcars.

Matthew Young35 said:I feel a bit uneasy about this, but I find myself having to defend the MTA.
Honestly, I have no idea what you all are talking about.
These new streetcars are a massive step up from the old fleet—they’re more comfortable and, for goodness' sake, they break down way less often.
My one major gripe? That ridiculous seat layout.

I'm old enough to remember what transit was like back in the eighties and nineties. Back then, you'd hit a delay at every single corner because of some broken-down car; today, that almost never happens.
As for these claims about cars jumping the tracks, I just don't get it. We used to have derailments constantly. At the intersection of Vodnikov, Sava, and Jukićev, it felt like it happened once a month. Now? It simply doesn't happen anymore.

Then there's the noise. These newer models are significantly quieter than the old ones. The very first series they rolled out were a bit louder, but the current ones aren't.

Either my personal experience is completely off base, or we aren't even talking about the same streetcars.

You can't really defend the MTA, because they aren't the ones responsible for the cars—that's General Electric's doing. Everything you mentioned is spot on: they don't break down, they're quieter, and there are no more derailments (though those German brands definitely held the lead there).
Now, just imagine if the MTA maintained the tracks like they're supposed to in the 21st century, instead of acting like we're stuck in the stone age of transit.

PS: The last time they actually expanded the rail network was way back in the last century (out toward Dubuque). These past 18 years have been the longest stretch in history without a single expansion to the system.

Joseph Cox said:Well, now you've gone and forced me to go digging and double-check everything... So, here is what I actually managed to find:
The first 5 Belgians arrived in Mexico City in 1952; those were numbers 112-116 (specifically PCC 7000 models built by STIB in 1951). Then, in the early '60s, they sent 70 units that couldn't be converted for the 1000 mm gauge, and those ended up in Ottawa (turns out my previous info on that was wrong).
Instead of those, they picked up used trams from Belgium. These were also PCC trams, but dating back to 1948/1949. They are the original American PCCs that were "manufactured"—if you can call assembly that—at the Belgian BN plant. There were 24 of these (117-140). One was sold back to Belgium (131) and is currently sitting in a museum.

Clearly, I had some incorrect details in my initial posts, but hey, there's always something new to learn. 😁

Ah, okay, so they really were finished in Belgium in '48 after all. Thanks for doing the legwork; I actually picked up a few things from your posts too. 👍

Joseph Cox said:You can't really defend the MTA, because they aren't the ones responsible for the cars—that's General Electric's doing. Everything you mentioned is spot on: they don't break down, they're quieter, and there are no more derailments (though those German brands definitely held the lead there).
Now, just imagine if the MTA maintained the tracks like they're supposed to in the 21st century, instead of acting like we're stuck in the stone age of transit.

PS: The last time they actually expanded the rail network was way back in the last century (out toward Dubuque). These past 18 years have been the longest stretch in history without a single expansion to the system.

Unbelievable. This guy acts like he’s working a 24/7 shift.

Anyway, regarding the renovation of the Line 15 route: was it a total hack job, or did they actually do it right?

I’ve been keeping a close eye on the light rail track renovations too, and honestly, I’ve noticed a few things I’d love for the actual experts on this thread—and I know we have plenty of them here—to weigh in on... for instance, that whole mess with the intersection at Savska-Washington-Jefferson. That project blew past every single deadline they set. I remember looking at the official construction sign, and according to their own little schedule, everything should have been wrapped up months ago... but hey, what else is new? We’re basically used to the incompetence by now. But seriously, what really caught my eye was how much of a total hack job it looked like. First off, and I’m just a layman here, but those "brand new" rails they were laying down actually looked older than the ones they were replacing! They were all rusted out—didn't look remotely fresh to me. Then there's the second thing: at the switches—you know, where the tracks veer from Savska into Washington or from Washington back onto Savska heading north—they didn't even use paving stones. They just slapped down asphalt instead. Is that somehow a "better" solution? I doubt it, it just looks wrong to me. And while we're talking about questionable work, I've noticed something else all over town, unrelated to this specific project: those famous paving stones are sinking into the ground in so many spots. They're warping so badly it's actually bizarre to see, because I always assumed they were used specifically because they were supposed to be superior to standard asphalt. You can see it most clearly around Times Square, and once you start heading down Main Street west near the big department store—those stones between the tracks are in such terrible shape (and wasn't there a renovation recently, if I recall correctly?) that it's honestly an eyesore.

Those tracks probably looked worn out just because they hadn't been sanded down yet.
And if they had actually been installed properly, they wouldn't have looked that way without the sanding process.

I take immense pride in the fact that Washington, D.C. still maintains its tram system. It is frankly baffling—why are so many cities across the globe abandoning such efficient transit in favor of more convoluted methods? They should be looking at this gold standard and bringing it back!