A - Austria

Sandra Johnson58 said:Why do you keep throwing that stat about 60% of rapes being committed by Austrians in my face? That feels like such a way to dodge the real issue. Like, obviously you'd expect the local population to commit more crimes since there are way more of them around. The real problem is that it won't stay that way soon because crime rates across the board are spiking among immigrants, and once a fifth of the population is responsible for half the crimes in the country, we've got a massive problem—especially since some groups have huge representation in crime while others barely show up at all. You don't see Vietnamese or Arab groups having that kind of representation anywhere in Europe.
I'm really curious, what do you honestly think are the reasons why some immigrant groups have extreme crime rates while others have almost none, even though they come from similar economic backgrounds? Maybe it's some cultural norms or something.
By the way, in Norway and Finland, they've made it mandatory for immigrants from countries known for their "human rights" and great "social freedoms" and respect for minorities to go through long training sessions on the social norms of those societies. And if they don't like it, no biggie, they can just ship them back to a war zone.
Also, going back to that famous 60% thing... those kinds of studies happen all over Europe, but some are detailed and some aren't. You really have to know how the data was gathered before you analyze it deeply. If these studies are done properly, they go into tiny details. For instance, it could easily happen that second-generation immigrants are counted as locals because, at the end of the day, they are citizens too.

There is so much misinformation being pushed about immigrants. In the beginning, everyone was whining that it was all women and children, but anyone with eyes could see that wasn't true. Then they complained they were highly educated, even though they couldn't say a word in a foreign language, and now all the media is crying about how there's a mountain of unaccompanied children. Get this: Denmark and Norway ran tests on those "unaccompanied children," and it turned out 72% of them weren't even kids—they were all over 18, and a decent chunk of them were close to thirty.🤣 I mean, honestly, you don't even need tests when you can just see it with your own eyes.
Immigrants aren't all savages or anything, but they come from totally different cultures with their own set of social norms and rules, so we really need to focus on assimilation and stop them from forming those isolated ghettos.

🤣
What did they do when my house was literally burning down during the war? What did they do while their people were out there looting, raping, and killing for decades in Lebanon? Nothing. Absolutely nothing, because they didn't give a damn. So now, I don't give a damn about them either. I don't owe them a thing.

Well, I already mentioned that the proportion is actually higher among foreigners. I wasn't trying to dodge anything or play it down, I'm just saying it isn't exclusive to any one group.

The issue is that this won't stay that way much longer because crime rates across the board are climbing among immigrants. When a fifth of the population ends up responsible for half the country's crime, we're looking at a massive problem—especially since some groups are overrepresented while others barely show up at all.

Look, here in Austria, crime spiked quite a bit once Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU. The news was all over it, talking about double-digit increases and everyone panicking. But what actually happened? Not much, really. Austria is still a relatively safe place. We didn't kick the Romanians out of the EU or the country; we just tried to patch the holes, even if we were mostly just treating symptoms. If we tried to fix every single little thing, I guess there'd be nothing left in Austria but animals and flowers.

Quote:I'm really curious what you think causes certain immigrant groups to have such extreme crime rates while others, coming from similar economic backgrounds, have almost none. Maybe it's just certain cultural norms? Crime rates usually have more to do with socio-economic status than actual social norms. There's plenty of data showing that an unemployed Austrian without an education who's struggling to get by is just as likely to turn to crime as a Romanian in that exact same spot. But, obviously, there are just many more Romanians in those tough situations, so they end up making up a larger number of criminals. Then, as a result, crime becomes somewhat "socially acceptable." So, I'm not sure where you got that idea about "foreigners from similar economic backgrounds having extreme crime rates." Where did that come from, I guess? Anyway, I might suggest it's actually the opposite, since the standards locals are used to are often higher than what migrants are accustomed to. With all its pros and cons, of course.

Quote:By the way, in Norway and Finland, it’s become mandatory for immigrants from countries known for their "human rights" and great "social freedoms," and respect for minorities, to go through intensive training on local societal norms. And if they don't like it, well, they can just head straight back to a war zone. I guess you've got that backwards. Honestly, I don't think any Norwegian would ever try to dump someone into a war zone—you might be misinformed or maybe just mistaken. And if they’re trying to explain local customs or rules to newcomers, I don't see anything wrong with that at all. It's not like they're attacking anyone's faith or identity; it's just saying, "Hey, follow our rules and you're welcome here." I'm totally on board with that. Sadly, in places like Austria, a lot of people just don't get it. There seems to be this push to just kick migrants out without even attempting to help. It feels like pure cruelty driven by a sense of superiority.

There's just so much misinformation being pushed about immigration. I guess at first everyone was crying about how it was all women and kids, but even a blind man could see that wasn't true. Then they kept claiming these people were highly educated when they barely speak a word of English, and now the media is suddenly obsessed with how many unaccompanied minors there are. It's wild, really. Apparently, authorities in Denmark and Norway ran tests on those "unaccompanied kids," and it turns out 72% weren't even children—they were all adults. And maybe even close to thirty percent of them were somewhere near that mark. 🤣 I mean, honestly, you don't even really need those tests when you've got eyes. I guess.
I guess most immigrants aren't exactly savages or anything, but they do come from totally different cultures with their own sets of social norms. Maybe we just need to focus more on assimilation so they don't end up stuck in ghettos.

I guess I don't know which news outlets you've been watching, but I honestly haven't seen anything about it being all women and children... that would be pretty weird, right? Who in their right mind would let their wife and kids cross the Mediterranean in a rubber dinghy? And the idea that everyone is highly educated or some kind of angel... maybe you're making the mistake of generalizing again. I'm really against any kind of sweeping generalizations because they just dull your mind. It’s like how people make those extreme assumptions about groups in the US—saying every single person belongs to one specific radical faction. They just don't.

Yeah, they’re definitely lying about their ages. It's pretty hard to prove otherwise, and I guess you can't really be surprised that people will do whatever it takes to make life better, especially just to survive. Like, if they say they're 16 when they've actually been smuggling themselves into Austria for two years... well, it is what it is. If we saved their lives by getting them out of the clutches of ISIS, the FSA, or Assad, then that seems like a tiny price to pay compared to the actual problems we're dealing with here in Austria.

What did they even do when my house was burning down during the war? What did they do while their people were out there looting, raping, and killing across Lebanon for decades? Nothing, I guess. They just didn't give a damn, so maybe I shouldn't either. I don't owe them anything.

There you go again with that "them" talk. I mean, they’re mostly just trying to escape ISIS and Assad and stuff like that. If you were running from an occupier in Syria, you'd probably treat people a lot better than how you're acting toward them right now. And honestly, saying you won't help because some of them might have done bad things in Lebanon forty years ago? It just doesn't feel very convincing, sorry. I guess you're just looking for any excuse not to help, especially since you know they haven't actually done anything to you. Not sure who you're trying to convince.

Nathan Morris3 said:Well, I already mentioned that the proportion is actually higher among foreigners. I wasn't trying to dodge anything or play it down, I'm just saying it isn't exclusive to any one group.

The issue is that this won't stay that way much longer because crime rates across the board are climbing among immigrants. When a fifth of the population ends up responsible for half the country's crime, we're looking at a massive problem—especially since some groups are overrepresented while others barely show up at all.

Look, here in Austria, crime spiked quite a bit once Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU. The news was all over it, talking about double-digit increases and everyone panicking. But what actually happened? Not much, really. Austria is still a relatively safe place. We didn't kick the Romanians out of the EU or the country; we just tried to patch the holes, even if we were mostly just treating symptoms. If we tried to fix every single little thing, I guess there'd be nothing left in Austria but animals and flowers.

Quote:I'm really curious what you think causes certain immigrant groups to have such extreme crime rates while others, coming from similar economic backgrounds, have almost none. Maybe it's just certain cultural norms? Crime rates usually have more to do with socio-economic status than actual social norms. There's plenty of data showing that an unemployed Austrian without an education who's struggling to get by is just as likely to turn to crime as a Romanian in that exact same spot. But, obviously, there are just many more Romanians in those tough situations, so they end up making up a larger number of criminals. Then, as a result, crime becomes somewhat "socially acceptable." So, I'm not sure where you got that idea about "foreigners from similar economic backgrounds having extreme crime rates." Where did that come from, I guess? Anyway, I might suggest it's actually the opposite, since the standards locals are used to are often higher than what migrants are accustomed to. With all its pros and cons, of course.

Quote:By the way, in Norway and Finland, it’s become mandatory for immigrants from countries known for their "human rights" and great "social freedoms," and respect for minorities, to go through intensive training on local societal norms. And if they don't like it, well, they can just head straight back to a war zone. I guess you've got that backwards. Honestly, I don't think any Norwegian would ever try to dump someone into a war zone—you might be misinformed or maybe just mistaken. And if they’re trying to explain local customs or rules to newcomers, I don't see anything wrong with that at all. It's not like they're attacking anyone's faith or identity; it's just saying, "Hey, follow our rules and you're welcome here." I'm totally on board with that. Sadly, in places like Austria, a lot of people just don't get it. There seems to be this push to just kick migrants out without even attempting to help. It feels like pure cruelty driven by a sense of superiority.

There's just so much misinformation being pushed about immigration. I guess at first everyone was crying about how it was all women and kids, but even a blind man could see that wasn't true. Then they kept claiming these people were highly educated when they barely speak a word of English, and now the media is suddenly obsessed with how many unaccompanied minors there are. It's wild, really. Apparently, authorities in Denmark and Norway ran tests on those "unaccompanied kids," and it turns out 72% weren't even children—they were all adults. And maybe even close to thirty percent of them were somewhere near that mark. 🤣 I mean, honestly, you don't even really need those tests when you've got eyes. I guess.
I guess most immigrants aren't exactly savages or anything, but they do come from totally different cultures with their own sets of social norms. Maybe we just need to focus more on assimilation so they don't end up stuck in ghettos.

I guess I don't know which news outlets you've been watching, but I honestly haven't seen anything about it being all women and children... that would be pretty weird, right? Who in their right mind would let their wife and kids cross the Mediterranean in a rubber dinghy? And the idea that everyone is highly educated or some kind of angel... maybe you're making the mistake of generalizing again. I'm really against any kind of sweeping generalizations because they just dull your mind. It’s like how people make those extreme assumptions about groups in the US—saying every single person belongs to one specific radical faction. They just don't.

Yeah, they’re definitely lying about their ages. It's pretty hard to prove otherwise, and I guess you can't really be surprised that people will do whatever it takes to make life better, especially just to survive. Like, if they say they're 16 when they've actually been smuggling themselves into Austria for two years... well, it is what it is. If we saved their lives by getting them out of the clutches of ISIS, the FSA, or Assad, then that seems like a tiny price to pay compared to the actual problems we're dealing with here in Austria.

What did they even do when my house was burning down during the war? What did they do while their people were out there looting, raping, and killing across Lebanon for decades? Nothing, I guess. They just didn't give a damn, so maybe I shouldn't either. I don't owe them anything.

There you go again with that "them" talk. I mean, they’re mostly just trying to escape ISIS and Assad and stuff like that. If you were running from an occupier in Syria, you'd probably treat people a lot better than how you're acting toward them right now. And honestly, saying you won't help because some of them might have done bad things in Lebanon forty years ago? It just doesn't feel very convincing, sorry. I guess you're just looking for any excuse not to help, especially since you know they haven't actually done anything to you. Not sure who you're trying to convince.

I think you might have misread me there. What I was actually getting at was your take on why certain immigrant groups seem to show up way more in crime stats than others, even when they’re coming from pretty much the same level of poverty. Like, I guess what I mean is... why would an Arab person be twenty times more likely to be involved in crime compared to a Vietnamese person, if they're both basically fleeing the same kind of struggle?

Nathan Morris3 said:Well, I already mentioned that the proportion is actually higher among foreigners. I wasn't trying to dodge anything or play it down, I'm just saying it isn't exclusive to any one group.

The issue is that this won't stay that way much longer because crime rates across the board are climbing among immigrants. When a fifth of the population ends up responsible for half the country's crime, we're looking at a massive problem—especially since some groups are overrepresented while others barely show up at all.

Look, here in Austria, crime spiked quite a bit once Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU. The news was all over it, talking about double-digit increases and everyone panicking. But what actually happened? Not much, really. Austria is still a relatively safe place. We didn't kick the Romanians out of the EU or the country; we just tried to patch the holes, even if we were mostly just treating symptoms. If we tried to fix every single little thing, I guess there'd be nothing left in Austria but animals and flowers.

Quote:I'm really curious what you think causes certain immigrant groups to have such extreme crime rates while others, coming from similar economic backgrounds, have almost none. Maybe it's just certain cultural norms? Crime rates usually have more to do with socio-economic status than actual social norms. There's plenty of data showing that an unemployed Austrian without an education who's struggling to get by is just as likely to turn to crime as a Romanian in that exact same spot. But, obviously, there are just many more Romanians in those tough situations, so they end up making up a larger number of criminals. Then, as a result, crime becomes somewhat "socially acceptable." So, I'm not sure where you got that idea about "foreigners from similar economic backgrounds having extreme crime rates." Where did that come from, I guess? Anyway, I might suggest it's actually the opposite, since the standards locals are used to are often higher than what migrants are accustomed to. With all its pros and cons, of course.

Quote:By the way, in Norway and Finland, it’s become mandatory for immigrants from countries known for their "human rights" and great "social freedoms," and respect for minorities, to go through intensive training on local societal norms. And if they don't like it, well, they can just head straight back to a war zone. I guess you've got that backwards. Honestly, I don't think any Norwegian would ever try to dump someone into a war zone—you might be misinformed or maybe just mistaken. And if they’re trying to explain local customs or rules to newcomers, I don't see anything wrong with that at all. It's not like they're attacking anyone's faith or identity; it's just saying, "Hey, follow our rules and you're welcome here." I'm totally on board with that. Sadly, in places like Austria, a lot of people just don't get it. There seems to be this push to just kick migrants out without even attempting to help. It feels like pure cruelty driven by a sense of superiority.

There's just so much misinformation being pushed about immigration. I guess at first everyone was crying about how it was all women and kids, but even a blind man could see that wasn't true. Then they kept claiming these people were highly educated when they barely speak a word of English, and now the media is suddenly obsessed with how many unaccompanied minors there are. It's wild, really. Apparently, authorities in Denmark and Norway ran tests on those "unaccompanied kids," and it turns out 72% weren't even children—they were all adults. And maybe even close to thirty percent of them were somewhere near that mark. 🤣 I mean, honestly, you don't even really need those tests when you've got eyes. I guess.
I guess most immigrants aren't exactly savages or anything, but they do come from totally different cultures with their own sets of social norms. Maybe we just need to focus more on assimilation so they don't end up stuck in ghettos.

I guess I don't know which news outlets you've been watching, but I honestly haven't seen anything about it being all women and children... that would be pretty weird, right? Who in their right mind would let their wife and kids cross the Mediterranean in a rubber dinghy? And the idea that everyone is highly educated or some kind of angel... maybe you're making the mistake of generalizing again. I'm really against any kind of sweeping generalizations because they just dull your mind. It’s like how people make those extreme assumptions about groups in the US—saying every single person belongs to one specific radical faction. They just don't.

Yeah, they’re definitely lying about their ages. It's pretty hard to prove otherwise, and I guess you can't really be surprised that people will do whatever it takes to make life better, especially just to survive. Like, if they say they're 16 when they've actually been smuggling themselves into Austria for two years... well, it is what it is. If we saved their lives by getting them out of the clutches of ISIS, the FSA, or Assad, then that seems like a tiny price to pay compared to the actual problems we're dealing with here in Austria.

What did they even do when my house was burning down during the war? What did they do while their people were out there looting, raping, and killing across Lebanon for decades? Nothing, I guess. They just didn't give a damn, so maybe I shouldn't either. I don't owe them anything.

There you go again with that "them" talk. I mean, they’re mostly just trying to escape ISIS and Assad and stuff like that. If you were running from an occupier in Syria, you'd probably treat people a lot better than how you're acting toward them right now. And honestly, saying you won't help because some of them might have done bad things in Lebanon forty years ago? It just doesn't feel very convincing, sorry. I guess you're just looking for any excuse not to help, especially since you know they haven't actually done anything to you. Not sure who you're trying to convince.

Unlike you, who doesn't twist things around at all...🍿 I mean, acting like they're being dumped straight into a war zone? That’s just total caricature. Honestly, all they're really looking at is deportation.

Nathan Morris3 said:Well, I already mentioned that the proportion is actually higher among foreigners. I wasn't trying to dodge anything or play it down, I'm just saying it isn't exclusive to any one group.

The issue is that this won't stay that way much longer because crime rates across the board are climbing among immigrants. When a fifth of the population ends up responsible for half the country's crime, we're looking at a massive problem—especially since some groups are overrepresented while others barely show up at all.

Look, here in Austria, crime spiked quite a bit once Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU. The news was all over it, talking about double-digit increases and everyone panicking. But what actually happened? Not much, really. Austria is still a relatively safe place. We didn't kick the Romanians out of the EU or the country; we just tried to patch the holes, even if we were mostly just treating symptoms. If we tried to fix every single little thing, I guess there'd be nothing left in Austria but animals and flowers.

Quote:I'm really curious what you think causes certain immigrant groups to have such extreme crime rates while others, coming from similar economic backgrounds, have almost none. Maybe it's just certain cultural norms? Crime rates usually have more to do with socio-economic status than actual social norms. There's plenty of data showing that an unemployed Austrian without an education who's struggling to get by is just as likely to turn to crime as a Romanian in that exact same spot. But, obviously, there are just many more Romanians in those tough situations, so they end up making up a larger number of criminals. Then, as a result, crime becomes somewhat "socially acceptable." So, I'm not sure where you got that idea about "foreigners from similar economic backgrounds having extreme crime rates." Where did that come from, I guess? Anyway, I might suggest it's actually the opposite, since the standards locals are used to are often higher than what migrants are accustomed to. With all its pros and cons, of course.

Quote:By the way, in Norway and Finland, it’s become mandatory for immigrants from countries known for their "human rights" and great "social freedoms," and respect for minorities, to go through intensive training on local societal norms. And if they don't like it, well, they can just head straight back to a war zone. I guess you've got that backwards. Honestly, I don't think any Norwegian would ever try to dump someone into a war zone—you might be misinformed or maybe just mistaken. And if they’re trying to explain local customs or rules to newcomers, I don't see anything wrong with that at all. It's not like they're attacking anyone's faith or identity; it's just saying, "Hey, follow our rules and you're welcome here." I'm totally on board with that. Sadly, in places like Austria, a lot of people just don't get it. There seems to be this push to just kick migrants out without even attempting to help. It feels like pure cruelty driven by a sense of superiority.

There's just so much misinformation being pushed about immigration. I guess at first everyone was crying about how it was all women and kids, but even a blind man could see that wasn't true. Then they kept claiming these people were highly educated when they barely speak a word of English, and now the media is suddenly obsessed with how many unaccompanied minors there are. It's wild, really. Apparently, authorities in Denmark and Norway ran tests on those "unaccompanied kids," and it turns out 72% weren't even children—they were all adults. And maybe even close to thirty percent of them were somewhere near that mark. 🤣 I mean, honestly, you don't even really need those tests when you've got eyes. I guess.
I guess most immigrants aren't exactly savages or anything, but they do come from totally different cultures with their own sets of social norms. Maybe we just need to focus more on assimilation so they don't end up stuck in ghettos.

I guess I don't know which news outlets you've been watching, but I honestly haven't seen anything about it being all women and children... that would be pretty weird, right? Who in their right mind would let their wife and kids cross the Mediterranean in a rubber dinghy? And the idea that everyone is highly educated or some kind of angel... maybe you're making the mistake of generalizing again. I'm really against any kind of sweeping generalizations because they just dull your mind. It’s like how people make those extreme assumptions about groups in the US—saying every single person belongs to one specific radical faction. They just don't.

Yeah, they’re definitely lying about their ages. It's pretty hard to prove otherwise, and I guess you can't really be surprised that people will do whatever it takes to make life better, especially just to survive. Like, if they say they're 16 when they've actually been smuggling themselves into Austria for two years... well, it is what it is. If we saved their lives by getting them out of the clutches of ISIS, the FSA, or Assad, then that seems like a tiny price to pay compared to the actual problems we're dealing with here in Austria.

What did they even do when my house was burning down during the war? What did they do while their people were out there looting, raping, and killing across Lebanon for decades? Nothing, I guess. They just didn't give a damn, so maybe I shouldn't either. I don't owe them anything.

There you go again with that "them" talk. I mean, they’re mostly just trying to escape ISIS and Assad and stuff like that. If you were running from an occupier in Syria, you'd probably treat people a lot better than how you're acting toward them right now. And honestly, saying you won't help because some of them might have done bad things in Lebanon forty years ago? It just doesn't feel very convincing, sorry. I guess you're just looking for any excuse not to help, especially since you know they haven't actually done anything to you. Not sure who you're trying to convince.

The media played along at first until they just got slammed with actual numbers. I mean, if they aren't letting women and kids onto those dinghies, how do you explain all those women and kids being pulled out of boats constantly? Not to mention the huge number of them drowning.
Here’s the first thing Google spat out
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/spanish-ita...an-sea-1554315

just dozens of kids in one boat🤣

Look, I generalize, sure, but you're doing the exact same thing by attacking people who support far-right parties. And hey, you even hinted earlier that refugees would probably help you more than you'd help them if the roles were reversed. Have you actually met every single immigrant, or are you just generalizing too? 🍿

Nathan Morris3 said:Well, I already mentioned that the proportion is actually higher among foreigners. I wasn't trying to dodge anything or play it down, I'm just saying it isn't exclusive to any one group.

The issue is that this won't stay that way much longer because crime rates across the board are climbing among immigrants. When a fifth of the population ends up responsible for half the country's crime, we're looking at a massive problem—especially since some groups are overrepresented while others barely show up at all.

Look, here in Austria, crime spiked quite a bit once Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU. The news was all over it, talking about double-digit increases and everyone panicking. But what actually happened? Not much, really. Austria is still a relatively safe place. We didn't kick the Romanians out of the EU or the country; we just tried to patch the holes, even if we were mostly just treating symptoms. If we tried to fix every single little thing, I guess there'd be nothing left in Austria but animals and flowers.

Quote:I'm really curious what you think causes certain immigrant groups to have such extreme crime rates while others, coming from similar economic backgrounds, have almost none. Maybe it's just certain cultural norms? Crime rates usually have more to do with socio-economic status than actual social norms. There's plenty of data showing that an unemployed Austrian without an education who's struggling to get by is just as likely to turn to crime as a Romanian in that exact same spot. But, obviously, there are just many more Romanians in those tough situations, so they end up making up a larger number of criminals. Then, as a result, crime becomes somewhat "socially acceptable." So, I'm not sure where you got that idea about "foreigners from similar economic backgrounds having extreme crime rates." Where did that come from, I guess? Anyway, I might suggest it's actually the opposite, since the standards locals are used to are often higher than what migrants are accustomed to. With all its pros and cons, of course.

Quote:By the way, in Norway and Finland, it’s become mandatory for immigrants from countries known for their "human rights" and great "social freedoms," and respect for minorities, to go through intensive training on local societal norms. And if they don't like it, well, they can just head straight back to a war zone. I guess you've got that backwards. Honestly, I don't think any Norwegian would ever try to dump someone into a war zone—you might be misinformed or maybe just mistaken. And if they’re trying to explain local customs or rules to newcomers, I don't see anything wrong with that at all. It's not like they're attacking anyone's faith or identity; it's just saying, "Hey, follow our rules and you're welcome here." I'm totally on board with that. Sadly, in places like Austria, a lot of people just don't get it. There seems to be this push to just kick migrants out without even attempting to help. It feels like pure cruelty driven by a sense of superiority.

There's just so much misinformation being pushed about immigration. I guess at first everyone was crying about how it was all women and kids, but even a blind man could see that wasn't true. Then they kept claiming these people were highly educated when they barely speak a word of English, and now the media is suddenly obsessed with how many unaccompanied minors there are. It's wild, really. Apparently, authorities in Denmark and Norway ran tests on those "unaccompanied kids," and it turns out 72% weren't even children—they were all adults. And maybe even close to thirty percent of them were somewhere near that mark. 🤣 I mean, honestly, you don't even really need those tests when you've got eyes. I guess.
I guess most immigrants aren't exactly savages or anything, but they do come from totally different cultures with their own sets of social norms. Maybe we just need to focus more on assimilation so they don't end up stuck in ghettos.

I guess I don't know which news outlets you've been watching, but I honestly haven't seen anything about it being all women and children... that would be pretty weird, right? Who in their right mind would let their wife and kids cross the Mediterranean in a rubber dinghy? And the idea that everyone is highly educated or some kind of angel... maybe you're making the mistake of generalizing again. I'm really against any kind of sweeping generalizations because they just dull your mind. It’s like how people make those extreme assumptions about groups in the US—saying every single person belongs to one specific radical faction. They just don't.

Yeah, they’re definitely lying about their ages. It's pretty hard to prove otherwise, and I guess you can't really be surprised that people will do whatever it takes to make life better, especially just to survive. Like, if they say they're 16 when they've actually been smuggling themselves into Austria for two years... well, it is what it is. If we saved their lives by getting them out of the clutches of ISIS, the FSA, or Assad, then that seems like a tiny price to pay compared to the actual problems we're dealing with here in Austria.

What did they even do when my house was burning down during the war? What did they do while their people were out there looting, raping, and killing across Lebanon for decades? Nothing, I guess. They just didn't give a damn, so maybe I shouldn't either. I don't owe them anything.

There you go again with that "them" talk. I mean, they’re mostly just trying to escape ISIS and Assad and stuff like that. If you were running from an occupier in Syria, you'd probably treat people a lot better than how you're acting toward them right now. And honestly, saying you won't help because some of them might have done bad things in Lebanon forty years ago? It just doesn't feel very convincing, sorry. I guess you're just looking for any excuse not to help, especially since you know they haven't actually done anything to you. Not sure who you're trying to convince.

Actually, it isn't that hard to prove. Age tests are reliable and they aren't even that expensive; that's why they're already using them in Denmark and Norway. And again, you're generalizing. How do you know you're saving them from ISIS? Maybe they're members of ISIS, maybe they're criminals, or maybe they're just lost in the woods—honestly, you probably have no clue. Taking in a mountain of undocumented people isn't just a resource issue, it's a security issue too.

Nathan Morris3 said:Well, I already mentioned that the proportion is actually higher among foreigners. I wasn't trying to dodge anything or play it down, I'm just saying it isn't exclusive to any one group.

The issue is that this won't stay that way much longer because crime rates across the board are climbing among immigrants. When a fifth of the population ends up responsible for half the country's crime, we're looking at a massive problem—especially since some groups are overrepresented while others barely show up at all.

Look, here in Austria, crime spiked quite a bit once Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU. The news was all over it, talking about double-digit increases and everyone panicking. But what actually happened? Not much, really. Austria is still a relatively safe place. We didn't kick the Romanians out of the EU or the country; we just tried to patch the holes, even if we were mostly just treating symptoms. If we tried to fix every single little thing, I guess there'd be nothing left in Austria but animals and flowers.

Quote:I'm really curious what you think causes certain immigrant groups to have such extreme crime rates while others, coming from similar economic backgrounds, have almost none. Maybe it's just certain cultural norms? Crime rates usually have more to do with socio-economic status than actual social norms. There's plenty of data showing that an unemployed Austrian without an education who's struggling to get by is just as likely to turn to crime as a Romanian in that exact same spot. But, obviously, there are just many more Romanians in those tough situations, so they end up making up a larger number of criminals. Then, as a result, crime becomes somewhat "socially acceptable." So, I'm not sure where you got that idea about "foreigners from similar economic backgrounds having extreme crime rates." Where did that come from, I guess? Anyway, I might suggest it's actually the opposite, since the standards locals are used to are often higher than what migrants are accustomed to. With all its pros and cons, of course.

Quote:By the way, in Norway and Finland, it’s become mandatory for immigrants from countries known for their "human rights" and great "social freedoms," and respect for minorities, to go through intensive training on local societal norms. And if they don't like it, well, they can just head straight back to a war zone. I guess you've got that backwards. Honestly, I don't think any Norwegian would ever try to dump someone into a war zone—you might be misinformed or maybe just mistaken. And if they’re trying to explain local customs or rules to newcomers, I don't see anything wrong with that at all. It's not like they're attacking anyone's faith or identity; it's just saying, "Hey, follow our rules and you're welcome here." I'm totally on board with that. Sadly, in places like Austria, a lot of people just don't get it. There seems to be this push to just kick migrants out without even attempting to help. It feels like pure cruelty driven by a sense of superiority.

There's just so much misinformation being pushed about immigration. I guess at first everyone was crying about how it was all women and kids, but even a blind man could see that wasn't true. Then they kept claiming these people were highly educated when they barely speak a word of English, and now the media is suddenly obsessed with how many unaccompanied minors there are. It's wild, really. Apparently, authorities in Denmark and Norway ran tests on those "unaccompanied kids," and it turns out 72% weren't even children—they were all adults. And maybe even close to thirty percent of them were somewhere near that mark. 🤣 I mean, honestly, you don't even really need those tests when you've got eyes. I guess.
I guess most immigrants aren't exactly savages or anything, but they do come from totally different cultures with their own sets of social norms. Maybe we just need to focus more on assimilation so they don't end up stuck in ghettos.

I guess I don't know which news outlets you've been watching, but I honestly haven't seen anything about it being all women and children... that would be pretty weird, right? Who in their right mind would let their wife and kids cross the Mediterranean in a rubber dinghy? And the idea that everyone is highly educated or some kind of angel... maybe you're making the mistake of generalizing again. I'm really against any kind of sweeping generalizations because they just dull your mind. It’s like how people make those extreme assumptions about groups in the US—saying every single person belongs to one specific radical faction. They just don't.

Yeah, they’re definitely lying about their ages. It's pretty hard to prove otherwise, and I guess you can't really be surprised that people will do whatever it takes to make life better, especially just to survive. Like, if they say they're 16 when they've actually been smuggling themselves into Austria for two years... well, it is what it is. If we saved their lives by getting them out of the clutches of ISIS, the FSA, or Assad, then that seems like a tiny price to pay compared to the actual problems we're dealing with here in Austria.

What did they even do when my house was burning down during the war? What did they do while their people were out there looting, raping, and killing across Lebanon for decades? Nothing, I guess. They just didn't give a damn, so maybe I shouldn't either. I don't owe them anything.

There you go again with that "them" talk. I mean, they’re mostly just trying to escape ISIS and Assad and stuff like that. If you were running from an occupier in Syria, you'd probably treat people a lot better than how you're acting toward them right now. And honestly, saying you won't help because some of them might have done bad things in Lebanon forty years ago? It just doesn't feel very convincing, sorry. I guess you're just looking for any excuse not to help, especially since you know they haven't actually done anything to you. Not sure who you're trying to convince.

I don't know which part of "I don't give a damn" you're missing. I'm not looking for an excuse not to help; I'm just saying I won't help because I put myself first, and they aren't my priority.
I guess you know your way around Lebanon, huh? ☕ If you want my help, the occupation of Lebanon ended back in 2005, but only after international pressure and the assassination of Hariri, which obviously triggered those massive protests in Syria. 🤣

Sandra Johnson58 said:I think you might have misread me there. What I was actually getting at was your take on why certain immigrant groups seem to show up way more in crime stats than others, even when they’re coming from pretty much the same level of poverty. Like, I guess what I mean is... why would an Arab person be twenty times more likely to be involved in crime compared to a Vietnamese person, if they're both basically fleeing the same kind of struggle?

Unlike you, who doesn't twist things around at all...🍿 I mean, acting like they're being dumped straight into a war zone? That’s just total caricature. Honestly, all they're really looking at is deportation.

The media played along at first until they just got slammed with actual numbers. I mean, if they aren't letting women and kids onto those dinghies, how do you explain all those women and kids being pulled out of boats constantly? Not to mention the huge number of them drowning.
Here’s the first thing Google spat out
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/spanish-ita...an-sea-1554315

just dozens of kids in one boat🤣

Look, I generalize, sure, but you're doing the exact same thing by attacking people who support far-right parties. And hey, you even hinted earlier that refugees would probably help you more than you'd help them if the roles were reversed. Have you actually met every single immigrant, or are you just generalizing too? 🍿

Actually, it isn't that hard to prove. Age tests are reliable and they aren't even that expensive; that's why they're already using them in Denmark and Norway. And again, you're generalizing. How do you know you're saving them from ISIS? Maybe they're members of ISIS, maybe they're criminals, or maybe they're just lost in the woods—honestly, you probably have no clue. Taking in a mountain of undocumented people isn't just a resource issue, it's a security issue too.

I don't know which part of "I don't give a damn" you're missing. I'm not looking for an excuse not to help; I'm just saying I won't help because I put myself first, and they aren't my priority.
I guess you know your way around Lebanon, huh? ☕ If you want my help, the occupation of Lebanon ended back in 2005, but only after international pressure and the assassination of Hariri, which obviously triggered those massive protests in Syria. 🤣

I think I already answered that. I was just saying that when you look at the crime rates in Romania, it really comes down to socioeconomic status—it’s the same for any American or someone from America, if you set aside white-collar crime. Then there's the whole issue of social norms, too. I guess someone coming from Thailand or Pakistan might have a different way of treating women than what we're used to in the West. You see those cultural differences between Germany and America, too. I totally agree, though, that anyone moving here should adopt the local standards regarding human rights and women's rights.

Unlike you, who doesn't twist anything... I guess.🍿 I guess calling it unloading people into a war zone is just a bit of an exaggeration, maybe. They're really only looking at deportation.

I guess some people might find joking about refugees or sending them back to war zones funny, but I don't really see the humor in that.

The media played it down at first, I guess, until they couldn't hide the actual numbers anymore. If they aren't letting women and kids onto those rafts, then how do you explain seeing so many of them being rescued constantly? Or even all those people drowning... it just doesn't add up, maybe.

I guess it's kind of weird to you that they're the first ones to go—the most vulnerable people, maybe? I don't find it that strange, though. It’s probably just whoever absolutely has to leave, so there must be women, kids, and men in the mix. But I suppose the trip is a bit less risky for the men. Nothing too unusual, I guess.

So, I guess this is just the first thing Google pulled up.
I saw this article about those tensions between Spain and Italy over fishing rights in the Mediterranean. It’s kind of wild how much back-and-forth there is, I guess. Maybe things will settle down soon?

Just a few kids in that inflatable raft, I guess.

Yeah, I guess I could've said that too. Like, men running away from the draft and risking those dangerous journeys just to find a safer way to bring their families along. Maybe.

I mean, I tend to generalize sometimes, I guess, but you’re doing the exact same thing by targeting people who support far-right parties. And honestly, that comment about how refugees would be more helpful to me than I could be to them? That was pretty low. Have you actually met every single immigrant out there, or are you just generalizing again, maybe?🍿

I mean, just look at the refugee numbers, then you might see what I'm getting at.
I'm not sure which statement you're referring to, maybe the one about generalizing like those who support right-wing parties.

It’s honestly not that hard to prove. Age tests are reliable and don't cost much, which is why they were used over in Denmark and Norway. You’re generalizing again, though. How can you be sure you saved them from ISIS? Maybe they're members themselves, maybe they're criminals, or maybe they're just lost in the woods—you probably just don't know. Taking in huge groups of undocumented people isn't just a resource issue, it's a security thing too.

In the European Union, given how much we pride ourselves on our high human rights standards, the asylum processing takes a really long time. And yeah, plenty of people take advantage of that. I'm just saying it's a mistake to try and link everything back to religion.
Maybe read the text you're replying to—I wrote "if we saved them from ISIS..." If we're talking about economic migrants, there are different rules for them anyway. I don't think that's even the topic here, since nobody seems to be disputing that, from what I can tell.

I don't get which part of that you're struggling with. I'm not looking for an excuse not to help them; I just won't help because I put myself first, and they aren't my priority.

There’s no law forcing you to help, so you have every right to be selfish. But even as a selfish person, you still have to respect the Constitution and the law. If that doesn't work for you, I guess you could move somewhere where it's easier to fit into the legal framework. It feels a bit hypocritical to break the Constitution and ignore the traditional values of your society while judging others for doing the same. How can anyone take you seriously?
Anyway, if you don't mind me asking, what country are you living in? I'm in Austria, and as soon as I arrived, I decided to embrace the Constitution and the laws here. I think you should do the same, even if you're writing from America.

And as for some Mexican blaming all Americans for certain historical conflicts, or some American blaming all Mexicans for what happened in El Paso (or any other example)... well, I guess that's just how it is. We have to learn to live with it, but that doesn't mean it's right. Besides, I don't think many Americans have been affected by these refugees in Lebanon.

I already mentioned that this could lead to some pretty serious consequences, so I won't go over that again. Does anyone else see this as just a social experiment that’s bound to end badly?

I'm seeing talk about sexual slavery that isn't even relevant to my point, mentions of Islam in Saudi Arabia, veiled women in London and in Vienna... I see the cultural norms prevalent in many Islamic countries, and please forgive me if I don't want them appearing here. And then there's Sweden... did what happened in Cologne take place in some parallel dimension? Is the reporter being assaulted in Egypt only in an alternate universe?

The fundamental issue is the cultural backwardness of these newcomers, specifically their deeply ingrained views regarding women.

Have you noticed any shifts in sexual dynamics in your area since this new population arrived?

ISIS has already sent a few hundred of its fighters, who will likely start making moves very soon.

You're Muslim, aren't you? And you live in Vienna? I didn't manage to follow the thread last week, and you might have already replied, sorry. If you are—have you noticed certain arrivals becoming radicalized? And have you reported it?

Why would I, someone from the Republic of America who survived the war there and moved here for work, feel compelled to weep for or serve a newly arrived population from Syria, Afghanistan, or Iraq? By what moral standard? What logic justifies leaving their own families in insecurity and poverty? Why didn't that million people organize and fight for their own country—since you're looking for causes and effects... oh sure, they had no one to fight for, right? A million people could certainly find a way...

My company actually organized something similar—do you know what they advised women to do verbally, rather than putting it in writing? They suggested that young women should avoid working night shifts.

To shorten my long email—these boys arrived during their formative years, they arrived with dreams, they arrived into a reality of poverty and instability, they are traumatized, they have primitive attitudes toward women, they are driven by hormones, and they gravitate toward those just like them.

As the surrounding community becomes increasingly less open to them (which is partly unfair), finding jobs will become incredibly difficult. If they do stay, crime of one kind or another might be their only path forward. It's tragic and pathetic for everyone involved.

Any "religion" that dictates the status of men and women, or what foods are permissible or forbidden, is flawed in my belief system. No form of a higher power would view eating certain meats as inherently positive or negative. I won't even get started on religious wars...

The war happened in America, and the casualties were suffered here in America. The previous administration was comprised of 11 out of 14 Mexicans. On their own territory, they didn't lose a single person or a single tank, yet the radicals have held most of the power since the conflict began. That’s just the reality of it. And look, as an American living in Vienna, I might have some Mexican acquaintances who aren't looking to start any wars, but I wouldn't call them friends, and I certainly won't be supporting Mexican tourism...

Regarding your point about downplaying what happened in El Paso... honestly, the average Mexican carries a much higher level of "guilt" compared to the average American, simply because they don't even grasp the magnitude of the atrocities committed by their own military.

I'm just completely fed up with all this relativizing.

Nathan Morris3 said:I think I already answered that. I was just saying that when you look at the crime rates in Romania, it really comes down to socioeconomic status—it’s the same for any American or someone from America, if you set aside white-collar crime. Then there's the whole issue of social norms, too. I guess someone coming from Thailand or Pakistan might have a different way of treating women than what we're used to in the West. You see those cultural differences between Germany and America, too. I totally agree, though, that anyone moving here should adopt the local standards regarding human rights and women's rights.

Unlike you, who doesn't twist anything... I guess.🍿 I guess calling it unloading people into a war zone is just a bit of an exaggeration, maybe. They're really only looking at deportation.

I guess some people might find joking about refugees or sending them back to war zones funny, but I don't really see the humor in that.

The media played it down at first, I guess, until they couldn't hide the actual numbers anymore. If they aren't letting women and kids onto those rafts, then how do you explain seeing so many of them being rescued constantly? Or even all those people drowning... it just doesn't add up, maybe.

I guess it's kind of weird to you that they're the first ones to go—the most vulnerable people, maybe? I don't find it that strange, though. It’s probably just whoever absolutely has to leave, so there must be women, kids, and men in the mix. But I suppose the trip is a bit less risky for the men. Nothing too unusual, I guess.

So, I guess this is just the first thing Google pulled up.
I saw this article about those tensions between Spain and Italy over fishing rights in the Mediterranean. It’s kind of wild how much back-and-forth there is, I guess. Maybe things will settle down soon?

Just a few kids in that inflatable raft, I guess.

Yeah, I guess I could've said that too. Like, men running away from the draft and risking those dangerous journeys just to find a safer way to bring their families along. Maybe.

I mean, I tend to generalize sometimes, I guess, but you’re doing the exact same thing by targeting people who support far-right parties. And honestly, that comment about how refugees would be more helpful to me than I could be to them? That was pretty low. Have you actually met every single immigrant out there, or are you just generalizing again, maybe?🍿

I mean, just look at the refugee numbers, then you might see what I'm getting at.
I'm not sure which statement you're referring to, maybe the one about generalizing like those who support right-wing parties.

It’s honestly not that hard to prove. Age tests are reliable and don't cost much, which is why they were used over in Denmark and Norway. You’re generalizing again, though. How can you be sure you saved them from ISIS? Maybe they're members themselves, maybe they're criminals, or maybe they're just lost in the woods—you probably just don't know. Taking in huge groups of undocumented people isn't just a resource issue, it's a security thing too.

In the European Union, given how much we pride ourselves on our high human rights standards, the asylum processing takes a really long time. And yeah, plenty of people take advantage of that. I'm just saying it's a mistake to try and link everything back to religion.
Maybe read the text you're replying to—I wrote "if we saved them from ISIS..." If we're talking about economic migrants, there are different rules for them anyway. I don't think that's even the topic here, since nobody seems to be disputing that, from what I can tell.

I don't get which part of that you're struggling with. I'm not looking for an excuse not to help them; I just won't help because I put myself first, and they aren't my priority.

There’s no law forcing you to help, so you have every right to be selfish. But even as a selfish person, you still have to respect the Constitution and the law. If that doesn't work for you, I guess you could move somewhere where it's easier to fit into the legal framework. It feels a bit hypocritical to break the Constitution and ignore the traditional values of your society while judging others for doing the same. How can anyone take you seriously?
Anyway, if you don't mind me asking, what country are you living in? I'm in Austria, and as soon as I arrived, I decided to embrace the Constitution and the laws here. I think you should do the same, even if you're writing from America.

And as for some Mexican blaming all Americans for certain historical conflicts, or some American blaming all Mexicans for what happened in El Paso (or any other example)... well, I guess that's just how it is. We have to learn to live with it, but that doesn't mean it's right. Besides, I don't think many Americans have been affected by these refugees in Lebanon.

Man, you didn't actually answer anything. You just threw Romanians and Austrians into the mix and smugly declared that if someone is poor, they're more likely to commit crimes... no shit, Sherlock. I didn't think everyone in Western Europe was somehow magically immune to crime. Plus, you keep trying to shove every single immigrant into one big bucket and treating them as identical just because it makes your argument easier.
I've said this a bunch of times already, but you can't do that. An immigrant from Vietnam is nothing like someone from Italy, Eastern Europe, or the Middle East. There are huge cultural, social, and—like you mentioned—socio-economic differences. Immigrants aren't some single, uniform group; you can't look at them that way. They're different from each other like cats and dogs.
Anyway, let me get back to my actual question, because maybe I wasn't clear enough. I'm exhausted as hell, so I'll try to make this super obvious.
So, I'm asking you: why is it that for every rape committed by, say, a Vietnamese person, there are way more from the Arab community? Why is it that for every theft by a Chinese person, there are way more people from the Middle East? Why does a guy from Sub-Saharan Africa seem way less prone to crime than some dude from the MENA region? Why aren't there piles of videos showing Chinese or Malaysian immigrants beating people up? Why don't Romanians, regardless of who they are, organize coordinated groups of 100 people to attack women?
Why do some immigrant groups adapt incredibly fast despite coming from totally different environments, while others barely even speak the language of the country they were born in by the second generation?
And why, when you go to big cities, do people warn you not to walk into certain neighborhoods that happen to be mostly populated by folks from the Middle East or parts of Sub-Saharan Africa?
Why are the most dangerous cities in Sweden and France the ones with the highest concentrations of people from the MENA region or the Horn of Africa?
It's honestly fascinating to me that you never hear those kinds of warnings when you're heading into a neighborhood where the majority are immigrants from the Far East, like Chinese people.
Don't just hit me with that "socio-economic reasons" line again, because people coming from the Far East or Sub-Saharan Africa aren't in any better shape than Arabs, nor do they come from organized, uncorrupt countries. It's just that they don't cause nearly as much trouble, so nobody has an issue with them. I mean, when was the last time you saw a protest against Chinese immigrants?

Nathan Morris3 said:I think I already answered that. I was just saying that when you look at the crime rates in Romania, it really comes down to socioeconomic status—it’s the same for any American or someone from America, if you set aside white-collar crime. Then there's the whole issue of social norms, too. I guess someone coming from Thailand or Pakistan might have a different way of treating women than what we're used to in the West. You see those cultural differences between Germany and America, too. I totally agree, though, that anyone moving here should adopt the local standards regarding human rights and women's rights.

Unlike you, who doesn't twist anything... I guess.🍿 I guess calling it unloading people into a war zone is just a bit of an exaggeration, maybe. They're really only looking at deportation.

I guess some people might find joking about refugees or sending them back to war zones funny, but I don't really see the humor in that.

The media played it down at first, I guess, until they couldn't hide the actual numbers anymore. If they aren't letting women and kids onto those rafts, then how do you explain seeing so many of them being rescued constantly? Or even all those people drowning... it just doesn't add up, maybe.

I guess it's kind of weird to you that they're the first ones to go—the most vulnerable people, maybe? I don't find it that strange, though. It’s probably just whoever absolutely has to leave, so there must be women, kids, and men in the mix. But I suppose the trip is a bit less risky for the men. Nothing too unusual, I guess.

So, I guess this is just the first thing Google pulled up.
I saw this article about those tensions between Spain and Italy over fishing rights in the Mediterranean. It’s kind of wild how much back-and-forth there is, I guess. Maybe things will settle down soon?

Just a few kids in that inflatable raft, I guess.

Yeah, I guess I could've said that too. Like, men running away from the draft and risking those dangerous journeys just to find a safer way to bring their families along. Maybe.

I mean, I tend to generalize sometimes, I guess, but you’re doing the exact same thing by targeting people who support far-right parties. And honestly, that comment about how refugees would be more helpful to me than I could be to them? That was pretty low. Have you actually met every single immigrant out there, or are you just generalizing again, maybe?🍿

I mean, just look at the refugee numbers, then you might see what I'm getting at.
I'm not sure which statement you're referring to, maybe the one about generalizing like those who support right-wing parties.

It’s honestly not that hard to prove. Age tests are reliable and don't cost much, which is why they were used over in Denmark and Norway. You’re generalizing again, though. How can you be sure you saved them from ISIS? Maybe they're members themselves, maybe they're criminals, or maybe they're just lost in the woods—you probably just don't know. Taking in huge groups of undocumented people isn't just a resource issue, it's a security thing too.

In the European Union, given how much we pride ourselves on our high human rights standards, the asylum processing takes a really long time. And yeah, plenty of people take advantage of that. I'm just saying it's a mistake to try and link everything back to religion.
Maybe read the text you're replying to—I wrote "if we saved them from ISIS..." If we're talking about economic migrants, there are different rules for them anyway. I don't think that's even the topic here, since nobody seems to be disputing that, from what I can tell.

I don't get which part of that you're struggling with. I'm not looking for an excuse not to help them; I just won't help because I put myself first, and they aren't my priority.

There’s no law forcing you to help, so you have every right to be selfish. But even as a selfish person, you still have to respect the Constitution and the law. If that doesn't work for you, I guess you could move somewhere where it's easier to fit into the legal framework. It feels a bit hypocritical to break the Constitution and ignore the traditional values of your society while judging others for doing the same. How can anyone take you seriously?
Anyway, if you don't mind me asking, what country are you living in? I'm in Austria, and as soon as I arrived, I decided to embrace the Constitution and the laws here. I think you should do the same, even if you're writing from America.

And as for some Mexican blaming all Americans for certain historical conflicts, or some American blaming all Mexicans for what happened in El Paso (or any other example)... well, I guess that's just how it is. We have to learn to live with it, but that doesn't mean it's right. Besides, I don't think many Americans have been affected by these refugees in Lebanon.

I mean, to me, they stop being "refugees" once they hit that first safe country. And honestly? If anyone seriously breaks the law—like assaults or rapes—I’d personally deport them back immediately, regardless of how bad the war is there. Like, if you're gonna go out and rape and steal, then don't complain when you get sent back to a war zone. Seriously.

Nathan Morris3 said:I think I already answered that. I was just saying that when you look at the crime rates in Romania, it really comes down to socioeconomic status—it’s the same for any American or someone from America, if you set aside white-collar crime. Then there's the whole issue of social norms, too. I guess someone coming from Thailand or Pakistan might have a different way of treating women than what we're used to in the West. You see those cultural differences between Germany and America, too. I totally agree, though, that anyone moving here should adopt the local standards regarding human rights and women's rights.

Unlike you, who doesn't twist anything... I guess.🍿 I guess calling it unloading people into a war zone is just a bit of an exaggeration, maybe. They're really only looking at deportation.

I guess some people might find joking about refugees or sending them back to war zones funny, but I don't really see the humor in that.

The media played it down at first, I guess, until they couldn't hide the actual numbers anymore. If they aren't letting women and kids onto those rafts, then how do you explain seeing so many of them being rescued constantly? Or even all those people drowning... it just doesn't add up, maybe.

I guess it's kind of weird to you that they're the first ones to go—the most vulnerable people, maybe? I don't find it that strange, though. It’s probably just whoever absolutely has to leave, so there must be women, kids, and men in the mix. But I suppose the trip is a bit less risky for the men. Nothing too unusual, I guess.

So, I guess this is just the first thing Google pulled up.
I saw this article about those tensions between Spain and Italy over fishing rights in the Mediterranean. It’s kind of wild how much back-and-forth there is, I guess. Maybe things will settle down soon?

Just a few kids in that inflatable raft, I guess.

Yeah, I guess I could've said that too. Like, men running away from the draft and risking those dangerous journeys just to find a safer way to bring their families along. Maybe.

I mean, I tend to generalize sometimes, I guess, but you’re doing the exact same thing by targeting people who support far-right parties. And honestly, that comment about how refugees would be more helpful to me than I could be to them? That was pretty low. Have you actually met every single immigrant out there, or are you just generalizing again, maybe?🍿

I mean, just look at the refugee numbers, then you might see what I'm getting at.
I'm not sure which statement you're referring to, maybe the one about generalizing like those who support right-wing parties.

It’s honestly not that hard to prove. Age tests are reliable and don't cost much, which is why they were used over in Denmark and Norway. You’re generalizing again, though. How can you be sure you saved them from ISIS? Maybe they're members themselves, maybe they're criminals, or maybe they're just lost in the woods—you probably just don't know. Taking in huge groups of undocumented people isn't just a resource issue, it's a security thing too.

In the European Union, given how much we pride ourselves on our high human rights standards, the asylum processing takes a really long time. And yeah, plenty of people take advantage of that. I'm just saying it's a mistake to try and link everything back to religion.
Maybe read the text you're replying to—I wrote "if we saved them from ISIS..." If we're talking about economic migrants, there are different rules for them anyway. I don't think that's even the topic here, since nobody seems to be disputing that, from what I can tell.

I don't get which part of that you're struggling with. I'm not looking for an excuse not to help them; I just won't help because I put myself first, and they aren't my priority.

There’s no law forcing you to help, so you have every right to be selfish. But even as a selfish person, you still have to respect the Constitution and the law. If that doesn't work for you, I guess you could move somewhere where it's easier to fit into the legal framework. It feels a bit hypocritical to break the Constitution and ignore the traditional values of your society while judging others for doing the same. How can anyone take you seriously?
Anyway, if you don't mind me asking, what country are you living in? I'm in Austria, and as soon as I arrived, I decided to embrace the Constitution and the laws here. I think you should do the same, even if you're writing from America.

And as for some Mexican blaming all Americans for certain historical conflicts, or some American blaming all Mexicans for what happened in El Paso (or any other example)... well, I guess that's just how it is. We have to learn to live with it, but that doesn't mean it's right. Besides, I don't think many Americans have been affected by these refugees in Lebanon.

Nah, that's not weird at all to me since it's basically survival of the fittest over there. But I definitely can't bring myself to feel bad for people who would throw a kid overboard just to keep the boat afloat.

Nathan Morris3 said:I think I already answered that. I was just saying that when you look at the crime rates in Romania, it really comes down to socioeconomic status—it’s the same for any American or someone from America, if you set aside white-collar crime. Then there's the whole issue of social norms, too. I guess someone coming from Thailand or Pakistan might have a different way of treating women than what we're used to in the West. You see those cultural differences between Germany and America, too. I totally agree, though, that anyone moving here should adopt the local standards regarding human rights and women's rights.

Unlike you, who doesn't twist anything... I guess.🍿 I guess calling it unloading people into a war zone is just a bit of an exaggeration, maybe. They're really only looking at deportation.

I guess some people might find joking about refugees or sending them back to war zones funny, but I don't really see the humor in that.

The media played it down at first, I guess, until they couldn't hide the actual numbers anymore. If they aren't letting women and kids onto those rafts, then how do you explain seeing so many of them being rescued constantly? Or even all those people drowning... it just doesn't add up, maybe.

I guess it's kind of weird to you that they're the first ones to go—the most vulnerable people, maybe? I don't find it that strange, though. It’s probably just whoever absolutely has to leave, so there must be women, kids, and men in the mix. But I suppose the trip is a bit less risky for the men. Nothing too unusual, I guess.

So, I guess this is just the first thing Google pulled up.
I saw this article about those tensions between Spain and Italy over fishing rights in the Mediterranean. It’s kind of wild how much back-and-forth there is, I guess. Maybe things will settle down soon?

Just a few kids in that inflatable raft, I guess.

Yeah, I guess I could've said that too. Like, men running away from the draft and risking those dangerous journeys just to find a safer way to bring their families along. Maybe.

I mean, I tend to generalize sometimes, I guess, but you’re doing the exact same thing by targeting people who support far-right parties. And honestly, that comment about how refugees would be more helpful to me than I could be to them? That was pretty low. Have you actually met every single immigrant out there, or are you just generalizing again, maybe?🍿

I mean, just look at the refugee numbers, then you might see what I'm getting at.
I'm not sure which statement you're referring to, maybe the one about generalizing like those who support right-wing parties.

It’s honestly not that hard to prove. Age tests are reliable and don't cost much, which is why they were used over in Denmark and Norway. You’re generalizing again, though. How can you be sure you saved them from ISIS? Maybe they're members themselves, maybe they're criminals, or maybe they're just lost in the woods—you probably just don't know. Taking in huge groups of undocumented people isn't just a resource issue, it's a security thing too.

In the European Union, given how much we pride ourselves on our high human rights standards, the asylum processing takes a really long time. And yeah, plenty of people take advantage of that. I'm just saying it's a mistake to try and link everything back to religion.
Maybe read the text you're replying to—I wrote "if we saved them from ISIS..." If we're talking about economic migrants, there are different rules for them anyway. I don't think that's even the topic here, since nobody seems to be disputing that, from what I can tell.

I don't get which part of that you're struggling with. I'm not looking for an excuse not to help them; I just won't help because I put myself first, and they aren't my priority.

There’s no law forcing you to help, so you have every right to be selfish. But even as a selfish person, you still have to respect the Constitution and the law. If that doesn't work for you, I guess you could move somewhere where it's easier to fit into the legal framework. It feels a bit hypocritical to break the Constitution and ignore the traditional values of your society while judging others for doing the same. How can anyone take you seriously?
Anyway, if you don't mind me asking, what country are you living in? I'm in Austria, and as soon as I arrived, I decided to embrace the Constitution and the laws here. I think you should do the same, even if you're writing from America.

And as for some Mexican blaming all Americans for certain historical conflicts, or some American blaming all Mexicans for what happened in El Paso (or any other example)... well, I guess that's just how it is. We have to learn to live with it, but that doesn't mean it's right. Besides, I don't think many Americans have been affected by these refugees in Lebanon.

Wait, hold up. You were the one who wrote earlier that it's crazy to let women and kids go on a dinghy across the Mediterranean, so I'm linking that article again. And now you're trying to twist my quote to say you could just say men flee to bring families later? God, did you even read the article? Half the boat was women and children, and it was only meant for six people. They didn't just survive because the Italian or Spanish Coast Guard picked them up; they survived because they actually had a real chance.☕

Nathan Morris3 said:I think I already answered that. I was just saying that when you look at the crime rates in Romania, it really comes down to socioeconomic status—it’s the same for any American or someone from America, if you set aside white-collar crime. Then there's the whole issue of social norms, too. I guess someone coming from Thailand or Pakistan might have a different way of treating women than what we're used to in the West. You see those cultural differences between Germany and America, too. I totally agree, though, that anyone moving here should adopt the local standards regarding human rights and women's rights.

Unlike you, who doesn't twist anything... I guess.🍿 I guess calling it unloading people into a war zone is just a bit of an exaggeration, maybe. They're really only looking at deportation.

I guess some people might find joking about refugees or sending them back to war zones funny, but I don't really see the humor in that.

The media played it down at first, I guess, until they couldn't hide the actual numbers anymore. If they aren't letting women and kids onto those rafts, then how do you explain seeing so many of them being rescued constantly? Or even all those people drowning... it just doesn't add up, maybe.

I guess it's kind of weird to you that they're the first ones to go—the most vulnerable people, maybe? I don't find it that strange, though. It’s probably just whoever absolutely has to leave, so there must be women, kids, and men in the mix. But I suppose the trip is a bit less risky for the men. Nothing too unusual, I guess.

So, I guess this is just the first thing Google pulled up.
I saw this article about those tensions between Spain and Italy over fishing rights in the Mediterranean. It’s kind of wild how much back-and-forth there is, I guess. Maybe things will settle down soon?

Just a few kids in that inflatable raft, I guess.

Yeah, I guess I could've said that too. Like, men running away from the draft and risking those dangerous journeys just to find a safer way to bring their families along. Maybe.

I mean, I tend to generalize sometimes, I guess, but you’re doing the exact same thing by targeting people who support far-right parties. And honestly, that comment about how refugees would be more helpful to me than I could be to them? That was pretty low. Have you actually met every single immigrant out there, or are you just generalizing again, maybe?🍿

I mean, just look at the refugee numbers, then you might see what I'm getting at.
I'm not sure which statement you're referring to, maybe the one about generalizing like those who support right-wing parties.

It’s honestly not that hard to prove. Age tests are reliable and don't cost much, which is why they were used over in Denmark and Norway. You’re generalizing again, though. How can you be sure you saved them from ISIS? Maybe they're members themselves, maybe they're criminals, or maybe they're just lost in the woods—you probably just don't know. Taking in huge groups of undocumented people isn't just a resource issue, it's a security thing too.

In the European Union, given how much we pride ourselves on our high human rights standards, the asylum processing takes a really long time. And yeah, plenty of people take advantage of that. I'm just saying it's a mistake to try and link everything back to religion.
Maybe read the text you're replying to—I wrote "if we saved them from ISIS..." If we're talking about economic migrants, there are different rules for them anyway. I don't think that's even the topic here, since nobody seems to be disputing that, from what I can tell.

I don't get which part of that you're struggling with. I'm not looking for an excuse not to help them; I just won't help because I put myself first, and they aren't my priority.

There’s no law forcing you to help, so you have every right to be selfish. But even as a selfish person, you still have to respect the Constitution and the law. If that doesn't work for you, I guess you could move somewhere where it's easier to fit into the legal framework. It feels a bit hypocritical to break the Constitution and ignore the traditional values of your society while judging others for doing the same. How can anyone take you seriously?
Anyway, if you don't mind me asking, what country are you living in? I'm in Austria, and as soon as I arrived, I decided to embrace the Constitution and the laws here. I think you should do the same, even if you're writing from America.

And as for some Mexican blaming all Americans for certain historical conflicts, or some American blaming all Mexicans for what happened in El Paso (or any other example)... well, I guess that's just how it is. We have to learn to live with it, but that doesn't mean it's right. Besides, I don't think many Americans have been affected by these refugees in Lebanon.

You didn't say anything direct, you just kind of implied through your writing that those parties lie to and cheat their voters, which basically suggests those people are too stupid to realize it and vote for them anyway.

Nathan Morris3 said:I think I already answered that. I was just saying that when you look at the crime rates in Romania, it really comes down to socioeconomic status—it’s the same for any American or someone from America, if you set aside white-collar crime. Then there's the whole issue of social norms, too. I guess someone coming from Thailand or Pakistan might have a different way of treating women than what we're used to in the West. You see those cultural differences between Germany and America, too. I totally agree, though, that anyone moving here should adopt the local standards regarding human rights and women's rights.

Unlike you, who doesn't twist anything... I guess.🍿 I guess calling it unloading people into a war zone is just a bit of an exaggeration, maybe. They're really only looking at deportation.

I guess some people might find joking about refugees or sending them back to war zones funny, but I don't really see the humor in that.

The media played it down at first, I guess, until they couldn't hide the actual numbers anymore. If they aren't letting women and kids onto those rafts, then how do you explain seeing so many of them being rescued constantly? Or even all those people drowning... it just doesn't add up, maybe.

I guess it's kind of weird to you that they're the first ones to go—the most vulnerable people, maybe? I don't find it that strange, though. It’s probably just whoever absolutely has to leave, so there must be women, kids, and men in the mix. But I suppose the trip is a bit less risky for the men. Nothing too unusual, I guess.

So, I guess this is just the first thing Google pulled up.
I saw this article about those tensions between Spain and Italy over fishing rights in the Mediterranean. It’s kind of wild how much back-and-forth there is, I guess. Maybe things will settle down soon?

Just a few kids in that inflatable raft, I guess.

Yeah, I guess I could've said that too. Like, men running away from the draft and risking those dangerous journeys just to find a safer way to bring their families along. Maybe.

I mean, I tend to generalize sometimes, I guess, but you’re doing the exact same thing by targeting people who support far-right parties. And honestly, that comment about how refugees would be more helpful to me than I could be to them? That was pretty low. Have you actually met every single immigrant out there, or are you just generalizing again, maybe?🍿

I mean, just look at the refugee numbers, then you might see what I'm getting at.
I'm not sure which statement you're referring to, maybe the one about generalizing like those who support right-wing parties.

It’s honestly not that hard to prove. Age tests are reliable and don't cost much, which is why they were used over in Denmark and Norway. You’re generalizing again, though. How can you be sure you saved them from ISIS? Maybe they're members themselves, maybe they're criminals, or maybe they're just lost in the woods—you probably just don't know. Taking in huge groups of undocumented people isn't just a resource issue, it's a security thing too.

In the European Union, given how much we pride ourselves on our high human rights standards, the asylum processing takes a really long time. And yeah, plenty of people take advantage of that. I'm just saying it's a mistake to try and link everything back to religion.
Maybe read the text you're replying to—I wrote "if we saved them from ISIS..." If we're talking about economic migrants, there are different rules for them anyway. I don't think that's even the topic here, since nobody seems to be disputing that, from what I can tell.

I don't get which part of that you're struggling with. I'm not looking for an excuse not to help them; I just won't help because I put myself first, and they aren't my priority.

There’s no law forcing you to help, so you have every right to be selfish. But even as a selfish person, you still have to respect the Constitution and the law. If that doesn't work for you, I guess you could move somewhere where it's easier to fit into the legal framework. It feels a bit hypocritical to break the Constitution and ignore the traditional values of your society while judging others for doing the same. How can anyone take you seriously?
Anyway, if you don't mind me asking, what country are you living in? I'm in Austria, and as soon as I arrived, I decided to embrace the Constitution and the laws here. I think you should do the same, even if you're writing from America.

And as for some Mexican blaming all Americans for certain historical conflicts, or some American blaming all Mexicans for what happened in El Paso (or any other example)... well, I guess that's just how it is. We have to learn to live with it, but that doesn't mean it's right. Besides, I don't think many Americans have been affected by these refugees in Lebanon.

The asylum process in the EU is just pathetic, honestly. It's full of loopholes that immigrants just jump through. You see cases where guys rape 15-year-old girls and then suddenly, once they're in jail, they "convert" to Christianity... even though if you actually ask them anything about it, they have zero clue. They just claim they're being threatened in whatever backwater place they came from. Basically, they use the Bill of Rights to screw over the actual citizens of the country. If I were in charge of deciding who gets deported, I’d tattoo a cross on their forehead and send them right back to deal with the terrorists themselves.
The whole asylum system in the entire EU really needs to be fixed, maybe modeled after Australia or even better, like the US citizenship test.
Anyway, what you wrote above doesn't mean squat to me. I didn't say I support extremists coming in; I just asked how we're supposed to know they *aren't* extremists or criminals. We can't even tell if they're economic migrants, refugees, killers, or whatever else, because most of them don't even have papers. They just get registered at centers in Greece without any real security checks, and then they're just let loose to wander wherever they want. I'm not trying to say most immigrants are criminals—not at all—but we simply can't know who is who. And when one bad apple shows up in a country, it drags down the reputation of everyone from that area. This isn't just about money or resources; like I said, it's a massive security issue. It's unheard of to let such a huge mass of people move freely through a country and cross borders like it's nothing. If they tried doing things the way they do in Europe to get into Israel, they'd be wiped out like chickens.

Nathan Morris3 said:I think I already answered that. I was just saying that when you look at the crime rates in Romania, it really comes down to socioeconomic status—it’s the same for any American or someone from America, if you set aside white-collar crime. Then there's the whole issue of social norms, too. I guess someone coming from Thailand or Pakistan might have a different way of treating women than what we're used to in the West. You see those cultural differences between Germany and America, too. I totally agree, though, that anyone moving here should adopt the local standards regarding human rights and women's rights.

Unlike you, who doesn't twist anything... I guess.🍿 I guess calling it unloading people into a war zone is just a bit of an exaggeration, maybe. They're really only looking at deportation.

I guess some people might find joking about refugees or sending them back to war zones funny, but I don't really see the humor in that.

The media played it down at first, I guess, until they couldn't hide the actual numbers anymore. If they aren't letting women and kids onto those rafts, then how do you explain seeing so many of them being rescued constantly? Or even all those people drowning... it just doesn't add up, maybe.

I guess it's kind of weird to you that they're the first ones to go—the most vulnerable people, maybe? I don't find it that strange, though. It’s probably just whoever absolutely has to leave, so there must be women, kids, and men in the mix. But I suppose the trip is a bit less risky for the men. Nothing too unusual, I guess.

So, I guess this is just the first thing Google pulled up.
I saw this article about those tensions between Spain and Italy over fishing rights in the Mediterranean. It’s kind of wild how much back-and-forth there is, I guess. Maybe things will settle down soon?

Just a few kids in that inflatable raft, I guess.

Yeah, I guess I could've said that too. Like, men running away from the draft and risking those dangerous journeys just to find a safer way to bring their families along. Maybe.

I mean, I tend to generalize sometimes, I guess, but you’re doing the exact same thing by targeting people who support far-right parties. And honestly, that comment about how refugees would be more helpful to me than I could be to them? That was pretty low. Have you actually met every single immigrant out there, or are you just generalizing again, maybe?🍿

I mean, just look at the refugee numbers, then you might see what I'm getting at.
I'm not sure which statement you're referring to, maybe the one about generalizing like those who support right-wing parties.

It’s honestly not that hard to prove. Age tests are reliable and don't cost much, which is why they were used over in Denmark and Norway. You’re generalizing again, though. How can you be sure you saved them from ISIS? Maybe they're members themselves, maybe they're criminals, or maybe they're just lost in the woods—you probably just don't know. Taking in huge groups of undocumented people isn't just a resource issue, it's a security thing too.

In the European Union, given how much we pride ourselves on our high human rights standards, the asylum processing takes a really long time. And yeah, plenty of people take advantage of that. I'm just saying it's a mistake to try and link everything back to religion.
Maybe read the text you're replying to—I wrote "if we saved them from ISIS..." If we're talking about economic migrants, there are different rules for them anyway. I don't think that's even the topic here, since nobody seems to be disputing that, from what I can tell.

I don't get which part of that you're struggling with. I'm not looking for an excuse not to help them; I just won't help because I put myself first, and they aren't my priority.

There’s no law forcing you to help, so you have every right to be selfish. But even as a selfish person, you still have to respect the Constitution and the law. If that doesn't work for you, I guess you could move somewhere where it's easier to fit into the legal framework. It feels a bit hypocritical to break the Constitution and ignore the traditional values of your society while judging others for doing the same. How can anyone take you seriously?
Anyway, if you don't mind me asking, what country are you living in? I'm in Austria, and as soon as I arrived, I decided to embrace the Constitution and the laws here. I think you should do the same, even if you're writing from America.

And as for some Mexican blaming all Americans for certain historical conflicts, or some American blaming all Mexicans for what happened in El Paso (or any other example)... well, I guess that's just how it is. We have to learn to live with it, but that doesn't mean it's right. Besides, I don't think many Americans have been affected by these refugees in Lebanon.

🤣 Christian spirit? For crying out loud, what are you even talking about? If there was any Christian spirit left in America, thieves wouldn't be running wild all over the place. Besides, just as an example, laws and Constitutions are pretty easy to change when, say, extremists take power.
Oh, and then while they're busy, like, keeping crews in camps, they'll probably sing that song perfectly while "respecting" the Constitution and the law.

Nathan Morris3 said:I think I already answered that. I was just saying that when you look at the crime rates in Romania, it really comes down to socioeconomic status—it’s the same for any American or someone from America, if you set aside white-collar crime. Then there's the whole issue of social norms, too. I guess someone coming from Thailand or Pakistan might have a different way of treating women than what we're used to in the West. You see those cultural differences between Germany and America, too. I totally agree, though, that anyone moving here should adopt the local standards regarding human rights and women's rights.

Unlike you, who doesn't twist anything... I guess.🍿 I guess calling it unloading people into a war zone is just a bit of an exaggeration, maybe. They're really only looking at deportation.

I guess some people might find joking about refugees or sending them back to war zones funny, but I don't really see the humor in that.

The media played it down at first, I guess, until they couldn't hide the actual numbers anymore. If they aren't letting women and kids onto those rafts, then how do you explain seeing so many of them being rescued constantly? Or even all those people drowning... it just doesn't add up, maybe.

I guess it's kind of weird to you that they're the first ones to go—the most vulnerable people, maybe? I don't find it that strange, though. It’s probably just whoever absolutely has to leave, so there must be women, kids, and men in the mix. But I suppose the trip is a bit less risky for the men. Nothing too unusual, I guess.

So, I guess this is just the first thing Google pulled up.
I saw this article about those tensions between Spain and Italy over fishing rights in the Mediterranean. It’s kind of wild how much back-and-forth there is, I guess. Maybe things will settle down soon?

Just a few kids in that inflatable raft, I guess.

Yeah, I guess I could've said that too. Like, men running away from the draft and risking those dangerous journeys just to find a safer way to bring their families along. Maybe.

I mean, I tend to generalize sometimes, I guess, but you’re doing the exact same thing by targeting people who support far-right parties. And honestly, that comment about how refugees would be more helpful to me than I could be to them? That was pretty low. Have you actually met every single immigrant out there, or are you just generalizing again, maybe?🍿

I mean, just look at the refugee numbers, then you might see what I'm getting at.
I'm not sure which statement you're referring to, maybe the one about generalizing like those who support right-wing parties.

It’s honestly not that hard to prove. Age tests are reliable and don't cost much, which is why they were used over in Denmark and Norway. You’re generalizing again, though. How can you be sure you saved them from ISIS? Maybe they're members themselves, maybe they're criminals, or maybe they're just lost in the woods—you probably just don't know. Taking in huge groups of undocumented people isn't just a resource issue, it's a security thing too.

In the European Union, given how much we pride ourselves on our high human rights standards, the asylum processing takes a really long time. And yeah, plenty of people take advantage of that. I'm just saying it's a mistake to try and link everything back to religion.
Maybe read the text you're replying to—I wrote "if we saved them from ISIS..." If we're talking about economic migrants, there are different rules for them anyway. I don't think that's even the topic here, since nobody seems to be disputing that, from what I can tell.

I don't get which part of that you're struggling with. I'm not looking for an excuse not to help them; I just won't help because I put myself first, and they aren't my priority.

There’s no law forcing you to help, so you have every right to be selfish. But even as a selfish person, you still have to respect the Constitution and the law. If that doesn't work for you, I guess you could move somewhere where it's easier to fit into the legal framework. It feels a bit hypocritical to break the Constitution and ignore the traditional values of your society while judging others for doing the same. How can anyone take you seriously?
Anyway, if you don't mind me asking, what country are you living in? I'm in Austria, and as soon as I arrived, I decided to embrace the Constitution and the laws here. I think you should do the same, even if you're writing from America.

And as for some Mexican blaming all Americans for certain historical conflicts, or some American blaming all Mexicans for what happened in El Paso (or any other example)... well, I guess that's just how it is. We have to learn to live with it, but that doesn't mean it's right. Besides, I don't think many Americans have been affected by these refugees in Lebanon.

America, though I've traveled quite a bit and seen the world. I've lived abroad too, so I guess I have some perspective on how this whole half-broken multicultural mess actually works.

Nathan Morris3 said:I think I already answered that. I was just saying that when you look at the crime rates in Romania, it really comes down to socioeconomic status—it’s the same for any American or someone from America, if you set aside white-collar crime. Then there's the whole issue of social norms, too. I guess someone coming from Thailand or Pakistan might have a different way of treating women than what we're used to in the West. You see those cultural differences between Germany and America, too. I totally agree, though, that anyone moving here should adopt the local standards regarding human rights and women's rights.

Unlike you, who doesn't twist anything... I guess.🍿 I guess calling it unloading people into a war zone is just a bit of an exaggeration, maybe. They're really only looking at deportation.

I guess some people might find joking about refugees or sending them back to war zones funny, but I don't really see the humor in that.

The media played it down at first, I guess, until they couldn't hide the actual numbers anymore. If they aren't letting women and kids onto those rafts, then how do you explain seeing so many of them being rescued constantly? Or even all those people drowning... it just doesn't add up, maybe.

I guess it's kind of weird to you that they're the first ones to go—the most vulnerable people, maybe? I don't find it that strange, though. It’s probably just whoever absolutely has to leave, so there must be women, kids, and men in the mix. But I suppose the trip is a bit less risky for the men. Nothing too unusual, I guess.

So, I guess this is just the first thing Google pulled up.
I saw this article about those tensions between Spain and Italy over fishing rights in the Mediterranean. It’s kind of wild how much back-and-forth there is, I guess. Maybe things will settle down soon?

Just a few kids in that inflatable raft, I guess.

Yeah, I guess I could've said that too. Like, men running away from the draft and risking those dangerous journeys just to find a safer way to bring their families along. Maybe.

I mean, I tend to generalize sometimes, I guess, but you’re doing the exact same thing by targeting people who support far-right parties. And honestly, that comment about how refugees would be more helpful to me than I could be to them? That was pretty low. Have you actually met every single immigrant out there, or are you just generalizing again, maybe?🍿

I mean, just look at the refugee numbers, then you might see what I'm getting at.
I'm not sure which statement you're referring to, maybe the one about generalizing like those who support right-wing parties.

It’s honestly not that hard to prove. Age tests are reliable and don't cost much, which is why they were used over in Denmark and Norway. You’re generalizing again, though. How can you be sure you saved them from ISIS? Maybe they're members themselves, maybe they're criminals, or maybe they're just lost in the woods—you probably just don't know. Taking in huge groups of undocumented people isn't just a resource issue, it's a security thing too.

In the European Union, given how much we pride ourselves on our high human rights standards, the asylum processing takes a really long time. And yeah, plenty of people take advantage of that. I'm just saying it's a mistake to try and link everything back to religion.
Maybe read the text you're replying to—I wrote "if we saved them from ISIS..." If we're talking about economic migrants, there are different rules for them anyway. I don't think that's even the topic here, since nobody seems to be disputing that, from what I can tell.

I don't get which part of that you're struggling with. I'm not looking for an excuse not to help them; I just won't help because I put myself first, and they aren't my priority.

There’s no law forcing you to help, so you have every right to be selfish. But even as a selfish person, you still have to respect the Constitution and the law. If that doesn't work for you, I guess you could move somewhere where it's easier to fit into the legal framework. It feels a bit hypocritical to break the Constitution and ignore the traditional values of your society while judging others for doing the same. How can anyone take you seriously?
Anyway, if you don't mind me asking, what country are you living in? I'm in Austria, and as soon as I arrived, I decided to embrace the Constitution and the laws here. I think you should do the same, even if you're writing from America.

And as for some Mexican blaming all Americans for certain historical conflicts, or some American blaming all Mexicans for what happened in El Paso (or any other example)... well, I guess that's just how it is. We have to learn to live with it, but that doesn't mean it's right. Besides, I don't think many Americans have been affected by these refugees in Lebanon.

Doesn't matter.

If anyone tries to discredit my use of logic based on where I’ve lived—as if that somehow invalidates my perspective beyond just being a tourist—well, I’ve called the shots from the Republic of America to Africa, and for the last two years, I've been settled in Vienna, Austria.

I can say from firsthand experience that we are all living through Angela Merkel's massive social experiment. I certainly have her to thank for that...

Nailed it, Sandra Johnson58—you hit the nail right on the head!

The answer to those questions from the first part of the post is crystal clear to anyone who isn't just playing dumb or being intentionally malicious. I mean, if you look at why certain ethnic groups show up way more in crime stats than others—even when they’re both coming from the exact same economic starting line (yeah, we're talking poverty and desperation here)—the reason is exclusively about culture, civilization, worldview, and how they were raised. It’s all about that foundational upbringing.

Think about it: whether it's a Vietnamese person, a Chinese person, or an Arab moving to the European Union looking for a better life, they’re often coming from pretty much the same economic struggles. But the statistics don't lie, and they tell a very specific story—some ethnic groups are represented in crime rates per capita several times higher than others. And in this case, we're talking about Arabs.

Chris Chase5 said:I already mentioned that this could lead to some pretty serious consequences, so I won't go over that again. Does anyone else see this as just a social experiment that’s bound to end badly?

I'm seeing talk about sexual slavery that isn't even relevant to my point, mentions of Islam in Saudi Arabia, veiled women in London and in Vienna... I see the cultural norms prevalent in many Islamic countries, and please forgive me if I don't want them appearing here. And then there's Sweden... did what happened in Cologne take place in some parallel dimension? Is the reporter being assaulted in Egypt only in an alternate universe?

The fundamental issue is the cultural backwardness of these newcomers, specifically their deeply ingrained views regarding women.

Have you noticed any shifts in sexual dynamics in your area since this new population arrived?

ISIS has already sent a few hundred of its fighters, who will likely start making moves very soon.

You're Muslim, aren't you? And you live in Vienna? I didn't manage to follow the thread last week, and you might have already replied, sorry. If you are—have you noticed certain arrivals becoming radicalized? And have you reported it?

Why would I, someone from the Republic of America who survived the war there and moved here for work, feel compelled to weep for or serve a newly arrived population from Syria, Afghanistan, or Iraq? By what moral standard? What logic justifies leaving their own families in insecurity and poverty? Why didn't that million people organize and fight for their own country—since you're looking for causes and effects... oh sure, they had no one to fight for, right? A million people could certainly find a way...

My company actually organized something similar—do you know what they advised women to do verbally, rather than putting it in writing? They suggested that young women should avoid working night shifts.

To shorten my long email—these boys arrived during their formative years, they arrived with dreams, they arrived into a reality of poverty and instability, they are traumatized, they have primitive attitudes toward women, they are driven by hormones, and they gravitate toward those just like them.

As the surrounding community becomes increasingly less open to them (which is partly unfair), finding jobs will become incredibly difficult. If they do stay, crime of one kind or another might be their only path forward. It's tragic and pathetic for everyone involved.

Any "religion" that dictates the status of men and women, or what foods are permissible or forbidden, is flawed in my belief system. No form of a higher power would view eating certain meats as inherently positive or negative. I won't even get started on religious wars...

Sorry, I guess I didn't quite catch what you meant in that sentence (not teasing!). I was just asking why, for example, outlets like krone.at or oe24.at would cover up incidents involving migrants.

Someone who sees this as a social experiment that’s only going to end badly.

But I don't think I followed you—what would be a better alternative? And maybe we aren't even talking about the same thing, since I think we actually agree on letting everyone into the country without any filters, and that there needs to be an alternative for refugee housing. I also suspect we’d agree that we should send fewer weapons to Saudi Arabia and more requests for them to take in refugees, though I guess you know how slim those chances are.
If I understood you right, you’re mostly advocating for building walls, thinking that might help reduce the chaos at its source (over in the Middle East)? Personally, I feel like building walls just makes things worse where the trouble starts. If you want, maybe we could have a polite, constructive chat about our disagreement so we don't waste energy on stuff we already agree on.

I see stories about sex trafficking that I don't care for, I see "Islam" in Saudi Arabia, I see veiled women in London and in Vienna... I see the cultural norms in many Islamic countries, so excuse me if I don't want them here. I also see Sweden... Did what happened in Cologne occur in another dimension? Was that reporter in Egypt raped in some parallel universe?

I get it, and I respect that it’s not your cup of tea (it isn't mine either), and I guess I don't even need to comment on the sex trafficking part. Or the idea that anyone is imposing their social norms on you. I'm just trying to figure out exactly what your issue is, because I see these same things too, but I feel like I see much more than just the selective examples of radical Islam that clearly come through the media. Let me ask you the same thing I asked my colleague—what kind of Muslims do you actually hang out with to form such an opinion? Are they really like that? Or are you just talking about people you don't know while ignoring the ones you do? I lived in America and had Muslims in my class, and I know plenty of them today. So, sorry if this is disappointing, but what you listed definitely isn't the whole picture; it's just one slice. To me, the problem lies in radicalization (whether it's Islam, the far-right, the left, nationalism, or chauvinism...), and if the problem were only Islam, then coexistence in the society where we grew up wouldn't even be possible. I'm not saying these groups are compatible or incompatible with us, I'm just saying it's a big mistake to boil everything down to religion. I'm allergic to all kinds of narrow-mindedness and intolerance, and the difference between us is that I see that closed-mindedness outside of a religious context, too, which is pretty significant. Looking at what's happening in Germany and Austria, it seems wild to blame a group that is actually weak and vulnerable for hatred and intolerance. You should call out specific radicals in Islamic or chauvinistic circles instead. Don't attack people who haven't done anything to you or pose any threat. And honestly, if you're afraid of your neighbor Edin just because he's Muslim, well, I guess you're never going to feel comfortable anywhere in the world.

I guess the real issue is just a cultural gap with the newcomers, and maybe it's also about how women are viewed culturally.

I totally agree. I don't know much about you, but if you have strong ties to the region, maybe you realize how hard it is for someone from a super patriarchal place, like rural Alabama, to fit into our Western world and its views on women's rights. I'm always going to stand up for women, LGBTQ+ folks, and minorities. It just feels a bit silly reading these teenagers from America posting in German or Austrian threads, lecturing us about equality when they grew up in such traditional environments. And honestly, the gap gets even wider when you look at places like Afghanistan, Russia, Pakistan, Guatemala, or Saudi Arabia. I guess I'm a bit puzzled by how you linked everything back to Islam, since the whole issue seems way more complex than just whether someone wears a headscarf or not. I tend to get involved—mostly through donations rather than my own time—with initiatives that focus on education and improving life for women in societies where they aren't treated equally. You might see a veil as the main issue, but I think their real struggle is violence and being trapped by a lack of education. I don't look at these women with hate; I just want to help them gain independence. To me, clothing freedom happens naturally once they are empowered. Trying to force changes on symptoms can actually be counterproductive because it hits their sense of identity. If we just help people get educated and equal, I guess everything else will fall into place.

I guess you might see some shifts in sexual dynamics in your research since those new populations arrived, maybe?

I don't know, but like I said before, everything seems to be happening with the migrants lately. It wouldn't even surprise me if sexual predators were involved, honestly—I'd actually be more shocked if they weren't. I guess a lot of those "incompatible" types are coming from the economic migrant groups rather than people fleeing war in Syria. And maybe we should probably be doing way more regarding integration for the people staying here, instead of just treating them like some lower class.

I guess the IS sent over a few hundred of their fighters, who might start making moves pretty soon. Maybe.

I guess there isn't really a need to send fighters disguised as refugees. Most of the trouble linked to ISIS actually comes from people who aren't even migrants and have been living in the US for years. Maybe ISIS just wants to hide terrorists among migrants to make their plan of radicalizing the US through more hatred work better.

So, you're Muslim, right? And living in Vienna? Sorry, I couldn't really keep up with this thread last week, I think you might have already replied to me. If you are—have you noticed any of the newcomers getting radicalized? And did you, I don't know, report it?

I think you might have me wrong there, but you didn't actually answer what I asked—why do you assume I'm Muslim, and why do you think that matters?
Radicalization? Well, I guess I could say... yeah, maybe I noticed about ten years ago that I was seeing Muslims in Chicago who looked different than anyone I'd seen before. Interestingly, I don't really see people like that walking around much anymore. Not because they aren't here, I suppose, but maybe because it feels too risky to walk around like that. But at the same time, I've definitely noticed a way higher number of radicalized Austrians—people who just don't care about the Constitution and constantly lecture everyone about tolerance and human rights, while totally ignoring the Christian values our parents grew up with. These are citizens, so you can't just take their citizenship away, even though they cause so much trouble. For migrants like us, it’s different. I felt like I had to be extra careful, almost perfect, just to be seen as an "exemplary" citizen. People like you and me? It's easy to deport us if we don't fit in or if we get in trouble.
I've called the police a few times, but honestly, I never knew what religion the person involved was, and I don't think it mattered. My neighbor downstairs was clearly hitting his wife, but he could have been anything—could've been anything at all—and it didn't change the fact that it happened. As for reporting those radicals, who are everywhere now, thankfully there are organized groups doing it. But I wonder if it actually does anything? It's pretty hard to identify someone just because they make anonymous threats based on faith or spread hate online. And then there's the other side... whether it's a local or a foreigner committing crimes like domestic abuse or keeping someone locked away, those things are often hidden behind closed doors. I don't know if it happens more with locals or foreigners, but I know there were cases where locals were arrested for holding young girls captive for years. I wouldn't say that kind of abuse is tied to any specific religion, though. I'm sure it happens among foreigners too, maybe even more since some cultures view it differently. It's just sad, I guess.

I guess I don't really see the point. Why would I, someone who actually lived through a war in America and moved here for work, go out of my way to help or serve people arriving from places like Syria, Afghanistan, or Iraq? I mean, what kind of logic is that? It doesn't make much sense to me. They left their families behind in such unstable situations, too. And honestly, if you're looking at cause and effect, why didn't those millions of people just organize and stand up for their own country? Maybe they didn't have the resources, I suppose, but a million people could definitely make an impact if they really wanted to.

Yeah, it’s pretty sad how things turned out. But I guess you might have missed the part where we—both Austrians and Americans, for that matter—were actually busy helping tear down the people who were keeping things stable over there. I don't know how old you are, but it wasn't even that long ago that we were teaming up with the Americans to pull off coups, toppling dictators while simultaneously sending weapons to other dictators who just happened to be more our style. So, basically, we take away the guy maintaining order, label him a dictator (which he technically is), arm the radicals, and send them cash... and now someone over there is stuck choosing between fighting the guy who's an enemy to us, or fighting the guys who are our friends but are totally extreme. I mean, tell me, if someone messed up your country and caused total chaos, who would you even fight for? A million unorganized, unarmed people don't have much choice but to run. I really don't think they love their country any less than we love America.

My company actually just did exactly that—they gave some verbal advice to the women on the team, nothing in writing, I guess. They were basically saying it might be better if the younger women didn't work the night shifts. Maybe.

I don't think that's illogical, really. I was just repeating what you said the police officers told you. It just seems like those people who are actually supposed to be looking out for everyone's safety are just pointing fingers and saying, "not our problem, blame this guy instead." Maybe.

I'll try to keep this email short—basically, these kids are still just finding themselves. They showed up expecting a dream, but instead, they've hit the reality of being broke and uncertain. They're pretty traumatized, maybe even a bit wild when it comes to women, fueled by hormones, and they mostly just hang out with people exactly like them.

I guess as things get less welcoming toward them—which might be unfair in some cases—finding decent work is going to be such a struggle. If they can't find anything else, maybe crime becomes the only option left. It’s just really sad and pathetic for everyone involved.

Yeah, I guess I agree.

I guess any religion that dictates things like gender roles or what you can and can't eat feels a bit incomplete to me. To my mind, no higher power would really care about whether someone eats pork or anything else. I probably shouldn't even get into the whole religious wars thing...

I mean, you can talk about Judaism or Islam or Christianity if you want—it doesn't bother me, really. As long as you aren't just doing it to be hurtful or stir the pot, I guess. I just think that even if we got rid of all religion tomorrow, gender inequality wouldn't just vanish. You'd probably still be left wondering, "Wait, so we ditched religion and everything is still a mess?" Maybe the answer is just human nature.

Sandra Johnson58 said:Man, you didn't actually answer anything. You just threw Romanians and Austrians into the mix and smugly declared that if someone is poor, they're more likely to commit crimes... no shit, Sherlock. I didn't think everyone in Western Europe was somehow magically immune to crime. Plus, you keep trying to shove every single immigrant into one big bucket and treating them as identical just because it makes your argument easier.
I've said this a bunch of times already, but you can't do that. An immigrant from Vietnam is nothing like someone from Italy, Eastern Europe, or the Middle East. There are huge cultural, social, and—like you mentioned—socio-economic differences. Immigrants aren't some single, uniform group; you can't look at them that way. They're different from each other like cats and dogs.
Anyway, let me get back to my actual question, because maybe I wasn't clear enough. I'm exhausted as hell, so I'll try to make this super obvious.
So, I'm asking you: why is it that for every rape committed by, say, a Vietnamese person, there are way more from the Arab community? Why is it that for every theft by a Chinese person, there are way more people from the Middle East? Why does a guy from Sub-Saharan Africa seem way less prone to crime than some dude from the MENA region? Why aren't there piles of videos showing Chinese or Malaysian immigrants beating people up? Why don't Romanians, regardless of who they are, organize coordinated groups of 100 people to attack women?
Why do some immigrant groups adapt incredibly fast despite coming from totally different environments, while others barely even speak the language of the country they were born in by the second generation?
And why, when you go to big cities, do people warn you not to walk into certain neighborhoods that happen to be mostly populated by folks from the Middle East or parts of Sub-Saharan Africa?
Why are the most dangerous cities in Sweden and France the ones with the highest concentrations of people from the MENA region or the Horn of Africa?
It's honestly fascinating to me that you never hear those kinds of warnings when you're heading into a neighborhood where the majority are immigrants from the Far East, like Chinese people.
Don't just hit me with that "socio-economic reasons" line again, because people coming from the Far East or Sub-Saharan Africa aren't in any better shape than Arabs, nor do they come from organized, uncorrupt countries. It's just that they don't cause nearly as much trouble, so nobody has an issue with them. I mean, when was the last time you saw a protest against Chinese immigrants?

I mean, to me, they stop being "refugees" once they hit that first safe country. And honestly? If anyone seriously breaks the law—like assaults or rapes—I’d personally deport them back immediately, regardless of how bad the war is there. Like, if you're gonna go out and rape and steal, then don't complain when you get sent back to a war zone. Seriously.

Nah, that's not weird at all to me since it's basically survival of the fittest over there. But I definitely can't bring myself to feel bad for people who would throw a kid overboard just to keep the boat afloat.

Wait, hold up. You were the one who wrote earlier that it's crazy to let women and kids go on a dinghy across the Mediterranean, so I'm linking that article again. And now you're trying to twist my quote to say you could just say men flee to bring families later? God, did you even read the article? Half the boat was women and children, and it was only meant for six people. They didn't just survive because the Italian or Spanish Coast Guard picked them up; they survived because they actually had a real chance.☕

You didn't say anything direct, you just kind of implied through your writing that those parties lie to and cheat their voters, which basically suggests those people are too stupid to realize it and vote for them anyway.

The asylum process in the EU is just pathetic, honestly. It's full of loopholes that immigrants just jump through. You see cases where guys rape 15-year-old girls and then suddenly, once they're in jail, they "convert" to Christianity... even though if you actually ask them anything about it, they have zero clue. They just claim they're being threatened in whatever backwater place they came from. Basically, they use the Bill of Rights to screw over the actual citizens of the country. If I were in charge of deciding who gets deported, I’d tattoo a cross on their forehead and send them right back to deal with the terrorists themselves.
The whole asylum system in the entire EU really needs to be fixed, maybe modeled after Australia or even better, like the US citizenship test.
Anyway, what you wrote above doesn't mean squat to me. I didn't say I support extremists coming in; I just asked how we're supposed to know they *aren't* extremists or criminals. We can't even tell if they're economic migrants, refugees, killers, or whatever else, because most of them don't even have papers. They just get registered at centers in Greece without any real security checks, and then they're just let loose to wander wherever they want. I'm not trying to say most immigrants are criminals—not at all—but we simply can't know who is who. And when one bad apple shows up in a country, it drags down the reputation of everyone from that area. This isn't just about money or resources; like I said, it's a massive security issue. It's unheard of to let such a huge mass of people move freely through a country and cross borders like it's nothing. If they tried doing things the way they do in Europe to get into Israel, they'd be wiped out like chickens.

🤣 Christian spirit? For crying out loud, what are you even talking about? If there was any Christian spirit left in America, thieves wouldn't be running wild all over the place. Besides, just as an example, laws and Constitutions are pretty easy to change when, say, extremists take power.
Oh, and then while they're busy, like, keeping crews in camps, they'll probably sing that song perfectly while "respecting" the Constitution and the law.

America, though I've traveled quite a bit and seen the world. I've lived abroad too, so I guess I have some perspective on how this whole half-broken multicultural mess actually works.

Doesn't matter.

Thanks, you really nailed what I've been saying all along—you can't just lump everything together like that, I guess.

I guess I'm just wondering why, if a Vietnamese person commits a crime, you see way more people from the Middle East showing up... or like, when there's a theft by a Chinese person, suddenly there are tons of folks from the Middle East around too. Maybe it's just how things seem?

I just sent a reply to my colleague over in Vienna. Anyway, I think your numbers are a bit off. I might have already shared the link, so maybe you missed it? From that 40% figure regarding foreign rapists, I believe the largest group is Turks, followed by Romanians and then Mexicans, if I recall correctly. I guess I already explained why—it's mostly down to the status of women and certain social norms, I suppose.
When it comes to leftover crime stats, it usually boils down to how things are organized. Like, with car thefts, you see a lot of Romanians, or with drug trafficking, maybe Afghans make up about 14%. I guess it has less to do with religion and more about how those groups are set up.

I guess you can't just blame socioeconomic factors. People coming from the Far East or Sub-Saharan Africa aren't exactly living better lives than Arabs, and they aren't coming from organized, corruption-free countries either. It feels more like they just don't cause as much trouble, so people don't complain about them as much. Maybe.

I guess you shouldn't lump all crime into one big category. Crime involving women doesn't really have anything to do with the economy, I suppose. But drug crimes and burglaries? Yeah, those definitely do.
Domestic violence cases rarely even make it to the police. I think back to those stats from the States—over 15,000 reports a year, with more than 30 women killed annually. Whether the perpetrators are migrants or from the Muslim community, I'm not sure since the data doesn't specify. I don't have the exact numbers for Austria on hand, though I bet you could find them pretty easily. Either way, I know there's a lot of violence happening around local Austrians, and I'm pretty sure the numbers are even higher among migrants. Maybe it’s less about alcohol and more about certain "social norms," I guess.

I mean, to me, they stop being refugees once they hit that first safe country. Honestly, if anyone seriously breaks the law—like committing assaults or rapes—I’d probably just deport them back immediately, regardless of whether there's a war going on over there or not. If you're heading back into a war zone, maybe don't go around raping and stealing, you know?

Nobody wants thugs hanging around them, and honestly, I'd love to see every single one of them locked up or just sent packing. But you can't exactly deport the Austrians, and we can't just ship migrants back to war zones overnight either, I guess. Maybe it's just complicated like that.

I guess you were saying earlier that men are the ones fleeing, implying they'd bring their families along safely later. But then I look at this article I'm linking, and honestly, maybe you didn't catch the whole story? Half the people on that six-person raft were actually women and kids.

When things first kicked off, most of the refugees were men. The idea was basically to get to Europe first, and then use family reunification to bring everyone else over safely. Once they realized that wasn't working out quite like they planned, they started sending the women and kids along too. I guess Merkel just decided it was better to let them take those rubber dinghies across the Mediterranean rather than sending planes to fetch them. Politically speaking, she probably wouldn't have survived any other choice, which makes sense to me. Anyway, have you actually found an article where it was only women and children? I'm not saying that didn't happen, but I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with it.

I'm not saying most immigrants are criminals—not at all—but I guess we just can't know who everyone actually is. And when some jerk arrives in a country with an agenda, they end up dragging down the reputation of everyone from that area. It isn't just about money or resources, though; like I said, it’s a massive security issue. It's pretty unheard of to let such a huge number of people move around the country and cross borders without any real oversight.

I totally agree. I guess the ones who get hurt most by parasites are just innocent bystanders, maybe.
I don't really see a great alternative here, I guess. Just seems like a choice between different kinds of garbage.

I'm from America, but I've traveled quite a bit and seen plenty of the world. I’ve also lived abroad, so I guess I have some perspective on how this whole messy multicultural thing actually works.

Multicultural societies are just a reality we have to deal with—you can't really fight them off once they're here. I guess you can only try to make sure things run somewhat smoothly. It's all just a result of globalization, old colonial stuff, wars, and everyone having different standards of living... Plus, I actually come from an immigrant background in a pretty tight-knit society, so maybe I see things a little differently.

I agree that women living in "traditional" Muslim—or let's just say patriarchal—societies face significant limitations regarding basic human freedoms, and the headscarf isn't even the biggest issue. However, I’m also noticing shifts happening in Sweden, Germany, and Austria regarding how newcomers actually integrate. John Wayne made a really solid point comparing immigrants from various cultural backgrounds. The Chinese have flooded Europe just as much, yet you don't read nearly as much about the influx from the Arabic-speaking world.

It feels like you're relativizing the situation, and I assumed you were subtly defending the Muslim world based on that.

I've never called the police, nor have I ever been questioned by them. I work like a dog, 8 to 12 hours a day... if I were back in the States, I'd be doing the same, and I'm never afraid to speak my mind clearly and loudly. I'm not exactly thrilled with my current surroundings, but I'm here for my career, and I have a wonderful circle of people who make my life here truly great.

To be honest, equating a single deviant with systematic daily attacks on women is a bit irritating, sorry. It's just not the same thing.

The safety situation—especially for women—isn't what it was two years ago. In my view, every criminal should be deported back to their country of origin—whether it's those young rapists or identified attackers targeting women. Meanwhile, every migrant has to go through the exact same rigorous process I did: getting work permits, mastering German, and so on. I used to hang out with Austrians, and they were struggling with unemployment too; not everyone, but out of ten acquaintances, two were. The last one I met was an Itevac and a local from Vienna. What kind of toolkit can an Afghan man offer, who faints at the sight of pork and doesn't know a single sentence of German, when it comes to believing women are equal?

Nathan Morris3 said:Thanks, you really nailed what I've been saying all along—you can't just lump everything together like that, I guess.

I guess I'm just wondering why, if a Vietnamese person commits a crime, you see way more people from the Middle East showing up... or like, when there's a theft by a Chinese person, suddenly there are tons of folks from the Middle East around too. Maybe it's just how things seem?

I just sent a reply to my colleague over in Vienna. Anyway, I think your numbers are a bit off. I might have already shared the link, so maybe you missed it? From that 40% figure regarding foreign rapists, I believe the largest group is Turks, followed by Romanians and then Mexicans, if I recall correctly. I guess I already explained why—it's mostly down to the status of women and certain social norms, I suppose.
When it comes to leftover crime stats, it usually boils down to how things are organized. Like, with car thefts, you see a lot of Romanians, or with drug trafficking, maybe Afghans make up about 14%. I guess it has less to do with religion and more about how those groups are set up.

I guess you can't just blame socioeconomic factors. People coming from the Far East or Sub-Saharan Africa aren't exactly living better lives than Arabs, and they aren't coming from organized, corruption-free countries either. It feels more like they just don't cause as much trouble, so people don't complain about them as much. Maybe.

I guess you shouldn't lump all crime into one big category. Crime involving women doesn't really have anything to do with the economy, I suppose. But drug crimes and burglaries? Yeah, those definitely do.
Domestic violence cases rarely even make it to the police. I think back to those stats from the States—over 15,000 reports a year, with more than 30 women killed annually. Whether the perpetrators are migrants or from the Muslim community, I'm not sure since the data doesn't specify. I don't have the exact numbers for Austria on hand, though I bet you could find them pretty easily. Either way, I know there's a lot of violence happening around local Austrians, and I'm pretty sure the numbers are even higher among migrants. Maybe it’s less about alcohol and more about certain "social norms," I guess.

I mean, to me, they stop being refugees once they hit that first safe country. Honestly, if anyone seriously breaks the law—like committing assaults or rapes—I’d probably just deport them back immediately, regardless of whether there's a war going on over there or not. If you're heading back into a war zone, maybe don't go around raping and stealing, you know?

Nobody wants thugs hanging around them, and honestly, I'd love to see every single one of them locked up or just sent packing. But you can't exactly deport the Austrians, and we can't just ship migrants back to war zones overnight either, I guess. Maybe it's just complicated like that.

I guess you were saying earlier that men are the ones fleeing, implying they'd bring their families along safely later. But then I look at this article I'm linking, and honestly, maybe you didn't catch the whole story? Half the people on that six-person raft were actually women and kids.

When things first kicked off, most of the refugees were men. The idea was basically to get to Europe first, and then use family reunification to bring everyone else over safely. Once they realized that wasn't working out quite like they planned, they started sending the women and kids along too. I guess Merkel just decided it was better to let them take those rubber dinghies across the Mediterranean rather than sending planes to fetch them. Politically speaking, she probably wouldn't have survived any other choice, which makes sense to me. Anyway, have you actually found an article where it was only women and children? I'm not saying that didn't happen, but I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with it.

I'm not saying most immigrants are criminals—not at all—but I guess we just can't know who everyone actually is. And when some jerk arrives in a country with an agenda, they end up dragging down the reputation of everyone from that area. It isn't just about money or resources, though; like I said, it’s a massive security issue. It's pretty unheard of to let such a huge number of people move around the country and cross borders without any real oversight.

I totally agree. I guess the ones who get hurt most by parasites are just innocent bystanders, maybe.
I don't really see a great alternative here, I guess. Just seems like a choice between different kinds of garbage.

I'm from America, but I've traveled quite a bit and seen plenty of the world. I’ve also lived abroad, so I guess I have some perspective on how this whole messy multicultural thing actually works.

Multicultural societies are just a reality we have to deal with—you can't really fight them off once they're here. I guess you can only try to make sure things run somewhat smoothly. It's all just a result of globalization, old colonial stuff, wars, and everyone having different standards of living... Plus, I actually come from an immigrant background in a pretty tight-knit society, so maybe I see things a little differently.

There's a massive gap in how we're looking at this—someone who commits an assault on a child deserves to be sent straight back to Iraq. That goes for all other perpetrators too, and anyone else like them. My tolerance ends right there because they have no right to destroy other people's lives, especially when they already show zero respect for someone else's body, emotions, or very existence. Austrians paid their taxes and deserve to stay in prison, just like Iraqis or Afghans should face justice in their own countries. I don't want my tax dollars going toward providing housing, food, and cable TV to rapists who shouldn't have been here in the first place... only for them to get released again and continue spreading their version of "cultural diversity."

Chris Chase5 said:I agree that women living in "traditional" Muslim—or let's just say patriarchal—societies face significant limitations regarding basic human freedoms, and the headscarf isn't even the biggest issue. However, I’m also noticing shifts happening in Sweden, Germany, and Austria regarding how newcomers actually integrate. John Wayne made a really solid point comparing immigrants from various cultural backgrounds. The Chinese have flooded Europe just as much, yet you don't read nearly as much about the influx from the Arabic-speaking world.

It feels like you're relativizing the situation, and I assumed you were subtly defending the Muslim world based on that.

I've never called the police, nor have I ever been questioned by them. I work like a dog, 8 to 12 hours a day... if I were back in the States, I'd be doing the same, and I'm never afraid to speak my mind clearly and loudly. I'm not exactly thrilled with my current surroundings, but I'm here for my career, and I have a wonderful circle of people who make my life here truly great.

To be honest, equating a single deviant with systematic daily attacks on women is a bit irritating, sorry. It's just not the same thing.

The safety situation—especially for women—isn't what it was two years ago. In my view, every criminal should be deported back to their country of origin—whether it's those young rapists or identified attackers targeting women. Meanwhile, every migrant has to go through the exact same rigorous process I did: getting work permits, mastering German, and so on. I used to hang out with Austrians, and they were struggling with unemployment too; not everyone, but out of ten acquaintances, two were. The last one I met was an Itevac and a local from Vienna. What kind of toolkit can an Afghan man offer, who faints at the sight of pork and doesn't know a single sentence of German, when it comes to believing women are equal?

I'm not sure how long you've been living in Austria, but if you ever get the chance, maybe take a trip down to Zell am See. There's probably a huge concentration of Arabs there. Compared to Zell am See, the way people dress in Vienna is almost like a complete mismatch. To me, those folks come from a totally different culture and I don't feel like we have much in common. I worry they aren't great toward women, and visually, they definitely disrupt the local style, but it seems like locals won't let them leave. I don't think it's because they're embracing the culture, but more because it lines their pockets. I don't have a particularly glowing view of Arabs (especially from the Peninsula or the Emirates)—their views on democracy, human rights, women, work ethic, or slavery... well, as much as I can generalize, anyway. But judging an entire nation based on the specific selection you see in Vienna—and then selecting within that group—probably leads to a pretty skewed picture. Maybe since you've spent time in other Arab environments, we share similar views, but I still think generalizing that much is wrong, especially when using religion as the link. That's why I asked if you feel the same way about a fictional neighbor like Edin from Canada.

You're being relativistic, and I assumed you were secretly defending the Muslim world.

I'm just defending people who get attacked without having done anything wrong. It feels weird to call that "defending Muslims," but I don't mind; I'm just saying your logic might be a little off😉.

Chris Chase5 said:There's a massive gap in how we're looking at this—someone who commits an assault on a child deserves to be sent straight back to Iraq. That goes for all other perpetrators too, and anyone else like them. My tolerance ends right there because they have no right to destroy other people's lives, especially when they already show zero respect for someone else's body, emotions, or very existence. Austrians paid their taxes and deserve to stay in prison, just like Iraqis or Afghans should face justice in their own countries. I don't want my tax dollars going toward providing housing, food, and cable TV to rapists who shouldn't have been here in the first place... only for them to get released again and continue spreading their version of "cultural diversity."

I guess you might have misread where we differ. We both agree we don't want them around us, but I suppose my point is that every criminal deserves the exact same treatment, regardless of what they believe. That’s how it's laid out in the Constitution, and I'm actually glad it is. It means the system might be slow or even a bit inefficient, but it doesn't discriminate based on race or religion. Generations fought to establish these human rights standards, and maybe we could lose them overnight if we aren't careful. I guess the real difference is that I don't mind paying the taxes that fund those rights, whereas you do.

Hey guys, I’ve put together over 350 posts now. Looking at the clock, I guess it’s taken about 20 hours or so, which feels like way too much. I didn't really expect to broaden my horizons or anything, but since I've started getting these hateful, threatening messages from random anonymous accounts, I'm starting to think that writing in such one-dimensional circles is just counterproductive. So, I think I'll step back from these debates. If things aren't constructive and people are making threats, there's just no motivation left. Plus, I feel like I could spend my time better than arguing with folks who try to lecture us from places like Germany or send all sorts of hateful ideas and threats over to the US. Personally, life in the States is good; I really value the Constitution, the laws, and human rights, and I'll definitely fight to protect them. It's just that this kind of forum activism doesn't seem like the most effective way to go about it. If anyone ever needs some specific advice or an opinion, I’d be happy to help or answer a question.

Nathan Morris3 said:I'm not sure how long you've been living in Austria, but if you ever get the chance, maybe take a trip down to Zell am See. There's probably a huge concentration of Arabs there. Compared to Zell am See, the way people dress in Vienna is almost like a complete mismatch. To me, those folks come from a totally different culture and I don't feel like we have much in common. I worry they aren't great toward women, and visually, they definitely disrupt the local style, but it seems like locals won't let them leave. I don't think it's because they're embracing the culture, but more because it lines their pockets. I don't have a particularly glowing view of Arabs (especially from the Peninsula or the Emirates)—their views on democracy, human rights, women, work ethic, or slavery... well, as much as I can generalize, anyway. But judging an entire nation based on the specific selection you see in Vienna—and then selecting within that group—probably leads to a pretty skewed picture. Maybe since you've spent time in other Arab environments, we share similar views, but I still think generalizing that much is wrong, especially when using religion as the link. That's why I asked if you feel the same way about a fictional neighbor like Edin from Canada.

You're being relativistic, and I assumed you were secretly defending the Muslim world.

I'm just defending people who get attacked without having done anything wrong. It feels weird to call that "defending Muslims," but I don't mind; I'm just saying your logic might be a little off😉.

I’m really sorry you’re getting those anonymous hate emails. I used to spend time in London, and even when walking through what would be considered the most radical Arab neighborhood in the city center—Edgewater Road—you’d see a woman in a veil practically every five steps.

Edin would probably represent at least a second generation living in such a civilized part of the world. Unfortunately, newcomers aren't like that. Neither are the other generations of highly educated Islamists who find Western civilization repulsive. The saddest part is that, for instance, those bombers in Paris essentially chose to live in their own version of Sodom and Gomorrah before deciding to go to war against people whose lifestyle they couldn't even fathom (things like drugs, prostitution, or heavy drinking). Personally, I have no desire to visit strip clubs, get drunk, or use drugs. They did. It was a choice, not a necessity. Yet, they blame the "Western world" for it. It's nonsense. There seems to be a total lack of basic education in that world, and I don't think generations of Europeans should have to lead them toward the "right path"... or have to fight them when they start shouting Alah Akbar....

While I was in Namibia, I spent quite a bit of time socializing with Muslims, and I have to tell you, a guy who lived a very secular life in England for twenty years holds incredibly conservative—honestly, almost cruel—views regarding dogs, let alone women, despite appearing to be an absolute sweetheart. He wouldn't even touch alcohol. But you know why? Because he drank himself into oblivion when he was younger and now he’s a true teetotaler. His nephew, whom they tried to set me up with, used to drink like a fish. :-)

I’d say both of them would act very differently if they were in Iraq.

The problem that seems chronically missing from this "religion/culture" is independent thought and empathy. I have no idea how many generations it will take, but I’d much rather this social experiment play out somewhere other than Europe.

Your approach is basically like putting a lion and a sheep in a room together overnight and expecting them both to walk out in the morning. Good luck with that...👍

Nathan Morris3, you’re calling everyone else out for generalizing, yet you fell right into the same trap when you were talking about how "patriarchal" Herzegovina is. Honestly, Herzegovina today and how it used to be are two completely different worlds—something you’d probably realize if you’d actually spent any time visiting Herc...
So, yeah, there’s your lesson in generalization.

By the way, I think talking privately via DM is much nicer when you disagree with someone. It feels more polite and constructive, without all those threatening messages.

Mark Harris66 said:Nathan Morris3, you’re calling everyone else out for generalizing, yet you fell right into the same trap when you were talking about how "patriarchal" Herzegovina is. Honestly, Herzegovina today and how it used to be are two completely different worlds—something you’d probably realize if you’d actually spent any time visiting Herc...
So, yeah, there’s your lesson in generalization.

I spent some time in Norway, and honestly, compared to the situation for women there, Austria might as well be Saudi Arabia. I guess I don't really agree with comparing America (or Canada) to Norway, especially if you step outside the big cities—rural life in places like Austria or the North America tends to be pretty patriarchal. Sure, maybe Arab Society has different work habits than Chinese or Westerners. And yeah, the North American attitude toward women can be very traditional. It’s similar to how things are in many Churches or Islamic Communities...
Do I think we should just assume every North American or believer is a patriarchal abuser and treat them differently, even if they happen to be the nicest person ever? I don't think so, I guess. That would just be generalizing.

If my last point sounded like I was generalizing, then I'm sorry, and I hope this clarifies where I'm coming from.

Yesterday we saw the second TV debate between Hofer and vdB. No moderators this time, either. Honestly, they were a hair's breadth away from a physical brawl.

The first expert breakdown was pretty scathing: "Both candidates look disgraced, and the very dignity of the presidency has taken a hit. This discussion was basically toddler-level nonsense." 😬

Hofer comes out on top here. It’s going to be an uphill battle for vdB to find any way to motivate his base after this. If anything, this whole debate just left voters feeling disgusted by both of them.