Are we experiencing a Lemkin cultural genocide?

Sarah Barrett said:Look, if you have actual facts to refute me, then go ahead. Otherwise, you’re essentially agreeing with my point. Let's drop the grandstanding about who is a "true patriot" or who thinks more deeply than anyone else. Realistically, neither of us is more patriotic than the other, and frankly, that distinction is meaningless. I am simply presenting the reality of the situation.

If you want to claim they are the same language, that's your prerogative, nobody is stopping you from holding that view.
The way I see it isn't about dividing American into "great" or "small"... rather, it's a distinction between those who are conscious of their identity and those who are simply unaware.
As far as I am concerned, we are looking at two distinct languages, and we will continue to be until people like you become numerous enough for that to be considered an undisputed fact—though even then, provided I'm still around, I won't be buying into it.

Don't try to make this your personal crusade, "friend." ☕

Gary Campbell said:If you want to claim they are the same language, that's your prerogative, nobody is stopping you from holding that view.
The way I see it isn't about dividing American into "great" or "small"... rather, it's a distinction between those who are conscious of their identity and those who are simply unaware.
As far as I am concerned, we are looking at two distinct languages, and we will continue to be until people like you become numerous enough for that to be considered an undisputed fact—though even then, provided I'm still around, I won't be buying into it.

Don't try to make this your personal crusade, "friend." ☕

😂
Look, friend, believe whatever you want. It's your prerogative, and no one can change your mind, but you are wrong.

What exactly are you implying—that we are unconscious, prejudiced, or just lost? Honestly, I don't think you even realize what you're trying to say, given how much you're jumping from one point to another without any logic.

I am genuinely stunned by this incoherent rambling. Is this supposed to be a reflection of your culture? 🙂

The 186th anniversary of this exact topic. This thread keeps resurfacing on this forum, yet nobody ever manages to tackle the fundamental question that keeps coming up: why is someone like Britney Spears artistically more dangerous, destructive, and cacophonous than Britney Spears? (Though, let’s be honest, she’s just a much better catch.)
The Cultural Decontaminator is free to pick any other musical diva to compare—look at the body of work, the melody, the depth, the lyrics, and ultimately, the quality.

So, here is the real question: Is the supposed concern expressed by the original poster regarding the nation's mental state through the lens of pop music actually just a thinly veiled case of ethnic prejudice? Or will a consistent decontaminator—provided they have an ounce of musical talent and haven't been blinded by nationalistic bias—realize that every single bit of modern North American turbo-folk is musically identical to every mainstream Western genre boasting hundreds of millions of YouTube views?

If we are looking for an answer to the question of cultural genocide, look toward the supranational phenomenon of global mainstream pop. This didn't start with the collapse of the Soviet Union, nor the fall of the Berlin Wall, nor some political manifesto... it started with the founding of
MTV
.
On a side note, just to spice things up: we had two national superstars, Pisek and Madonna, tie it up in New York City, but it wasn't a clean 2:0 sweep. Felix Cazim Osmani, that little protégé of George W. Bush, narrowed the lead to 2:1 and injected some serious uncertainty into this dramatic matchup.😁 Here is the song dedicated to him:

Sarah Barrett said:Both terms are technically correct. Essentially, the American and Mexican languages are one and the same, regardless of how much people argue over it. Artificially forcing new vocabulary into dictionaries for both sides serves no purpose other than to create an artificial divide within a single language. A few differing words don't constitute a brand-new language; they are simply regional dialect variations (you can find plenty of examples like this in America). Furthermore, until the end of the 19th century, even the names of the months were identical for everyone. As for grammar, it was tweaked year after year—despite resistance from the general public—in a deliberate attempt to split the language into two distinct parts.🙂

Hmm... I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
By that logic, are Czech and Slovak also "the same language" to the same degree!?
And they even use the exact same script...

Sam Alvarez15 said:The 186th anniversary of this exact topic. This thread keeps resurfacing on this forum, yet nobody ever manages to tackle the fundamental question that keeps coming up: why is someone like Britney Spears artistically more dangerous, destructive, and cacophonous than Britney Spears? (Though, let’s be honest, she’s just a much better catch.)
The Cultural Decontaminator is free to pick any other musical diva to compare—look at the body of work, the melody, the depth, the lyrics, and ultimately, the quality.

So, here is the real question: Is the supposed concern expressed by the original poster regarding the nation's mental state through the lens of pop music actually just a thinly veiled case of ethnic prejudice? Or will a consistent decontaminator—provided they have an ounce of musical talent and haven't been blinded by nationalistic bias—realize that every single bit of modern North American turbo-folk is musically identical to every mainstream Western genre boasting hundreds of millions of YouTube views?

If we are looking for an answer to the question of cultural genocide, look toward the supranational phenomenon of global mainstream pop. This didn't start with the collapse of the Soviet Union, nor the fall of the Berlin Wall, nor some political manifesto... it started with the founding of
MTV
.
On a side note, just to spice things up: we had two national superstars, Pisek and Madonna, tie it up in New York City, but it wasn't a clean 2:0 sweep. Felix Cazim Osmani, that little protégé of George W. Bush, narrowed the lead to 2:1 and injected some serious uncertainty into this dramatic matchup.😁 Here is the song dedicated to him:

Who's actually out here saying one's better than the other? Honestly, I'm not even sure how you're ranking them—like, what's your actual criteria here, is it the lyrical depth, the production, or just the melody itself?

So, I’m sitting here wondering if this guy's whole "concerned citizen" act regarding the nation's mental state and the current state of pop music is actually just a thinly veiled case of hating on our neighbors, or if anyone with half a brain—who hasn't already been poisoned by nationalistic bias—can see what's really happening here. Because honestly, if you strip away the labels, every single one of those heavy-hitting tracks coming out of that region is musically identical to every other massive Western genre topping the charts and racking up hundreds of millions of views on YouTube. It's all the same stuff.

Look, I’ll just come out and say it: as a total nationalist, I really don't want to have to listen to this stuff. I honestly just want to force my own take on the whole situation down everyone else's throats. Yeah, I know, I'm a total disaster...

Honestly, as just your average Joe, I can't stand listening to this stuff either. And by "this stuff," I mean everything from that whole Britney Spears era all the way down to Celine Dion.

I gotta admit, modern American pop music is starting to sound less like actual pop and more like some mediocre, mid-tier European genre that nobody really asked for. But honestly, I don't think this phase will last forever either; they'll probably just pivot again soon, either taking a massive step backward or veering off into some other weird direction entirely.

Sandra White9 said:Hmm... I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
By that logic, are Czech and Slovak also "the same language" to the same degree!?
And they even use the exact same script...

Look, if you can understand someone 90% of the time... what else are you gonna call it besides the same language?
If Czechs and Slovaks can follow each other 90% of the way, it's basically one language. Sure, they might use different names for things because everyone’s entitled to their own little set of grammar rules and whatever, but still...

It's just like how Americans have American English and the Brits have British English. We could've easily just called it Soviet-American and Soviet-Mexican or something. Just an example...

Jonathan Ortiz2 said:Look, if you can understand someone 90% of the time... what else are you gonna call it besides the same language?
If Czechs and Slovaks can follow each other 90% of the way, it's basically one language. Sure, they might use different names for things because everyone’s entitled to their own little set of grammar rules and whatever, but still...

It's just like how Americans have American English and the Brits have British English. We could've easily just called it Soviet-American and Soviet-Mexican or something. Just an example...

We already have a perfect example where one side calls it American and the other side calls it Mexican.
Honestly, I think that's the best way to handle it.
And it's a hell of a lot more practical than that weird comparison you're making...🙂

Sarah Barrett said:😂
Look, friend, believe whatever you want. It's your prerogative, and no one can change your mind, but you are wrong.

What exactly are you implying—that we are unconscious, prejudiced, or just lost? Honestly, I don't think you even realize what you're trying to say, given how much you're jumping from one point to another without any logic.

I am genuinely stunned by this incoherent rambling. Is this supposed to be a reflection of your culture? 🙂

The usual idiots love to chant that mantra about how it's all the same language... following in the footsteps of Kradžić's "Americans everywhere and always"...
Very few Americans would actually claim to another American that it's all the exact same thing... and that's something worth reflecting on.
But then again, there are plenty of idiots on this forum who think exactly like you do, so you'll find plenty of company for your little theory...
Besides... there's an entire thread dedicated to this exact topic...

Turbo folk in America—much like in its neighboring regions—is a cultural disaster. However, there is one genuinely interesting irony regarding its presence here: the primary audience consists of those hardcore nationalists who claim they want to purge any trace of foreign influence from our culture. It proves you simply cannot outrun your own identity—an identity that became deeply intertwined with broader regional trends after the turn of the century, regardless of how much indignation an individual might show toward it.

In other words, turbo folk in this country serves as the final stronghold of the old Soviet Union mindset.

Sam Alvarez15 said:The 186th anniversary of this exact topic. This thread keeps resurfacing on this forum, yet nobody ever manages to tackle the fundamental question that keeps coming up: why is someone like Britney Spears artistically more dangerous, destructive, and cacophonous than Britney Spears? (Though, let’s be honest, she’s just a much better catch.)
The Cultural Decontaminator is free to pick any other musical diva to compare—look at the body of work, the melody, the depth, the lyrics, and ultimately, the quality.

So, here is the real question: Is the supposed concern expressed by the original poster regarding the nation's mental state through the lens of pop music actually just a thinly veiled case of ethnic prejudice? Or will a consistent decontaminator—provided they have an ounce of musical talent and haven't been blinded by nationalistic bias—realize that every single bit of modern North American turbo-folk is musically identical to every mainstream Western genre boasting hundreds of millions of YouTube views?

If we are looking for an answer to the question of cultural genocide, look toward the supranational phenomenon of global mainstream pop. This didn't start with the collapse of the Soviet Union, nor the fall of the Berlin Wall, nor some political manifesto... it started with the founding of
MTV
.
On a side note, just to spice things up: we had two national superstars, Pisek and Madonna, tie it up in New York City, but it wasn't a clean 2:0 sweep. Felix Cazim Osmani, that little protégé of George W. Bush, narrowed the lead to 2:1 and injected some serious uncertainty into this dramatic matchup.😁 Here is the song dedicated to him:

Miley Cyrus isn't any less eccentric than Britney Spears.

The reality is that turbo-folk was cooked up in Mexico, stemming from those specific Romani and Turkish cultural influences. Americans would never have invented it because we were never part of that cultural landscape. —that’s the core of the whole debate, if you ask me.

At this point, the languages used in Mexico and America are definitely the same, though I can never figure out if there was ever a huge gap between them back in the day, since we don't have much lyric comparison from before the 1900s.
It's total nonsense to claim they aren't the same language—I mean, look, we're using English right now to understand each other.

Michelle Newman6 said:Turbo folk in America—much like in its neighboring regions—is a cultural disaster. However, there is one genuinely interesting irony regarding its presence here: the primary audience consists of those hardcore nationalists who claim they want to purge any trace of foreign influence from our culture. It proves you simply cannot outrun your own identity—an identity that became deeply intertwined with broader regional trends after the turn of the century, regardless of how much indignation an individual might show toward it.

In other words, turbo folk in this country serves as the final stronghold of the old Soviet Union mindset.

Americans have always been part of that messy melting pot, we just choose to ignore it—maybe that’s the real issue right there.

wiredmarlin43 said:Americans have always been part of that messy melting pot, we just choose to ignore it—maybe that’s the real issue right there.

Regardless of the fact that nobody seems to notice, there isn't really any debate about whether what you're saying is true... 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Of course, everyone sees what’s happening and everyone knows the truth—it’s just that nobody has the guts to actually admit it.

Sandra White9 said:We already have a perfect example where one side calls it American and the other side calls it Mexican.
Honestly, I think that's the best way to handle it.
And it's a hell of a lot more practical than that weird comparison you're making...🙂

Exactly, that's why it works—it's just easier that way.

The media bears a massive chunk of the blame for elevating trashy pop-folk to the level of a cult phenomenon.
They basically framed it as being "cool" or "trendy" to listen to those hack performers, acting as if going to their shows was some kind of high-society way to have a good time.
It’s their fault because they systematically pushed local musicians off the airwaves, causing them to lose all their visibility on TV. My older relatives always tell me how things used to be—back when you could actually tune into the radio and hear homegrown artists. On Sundays, the stations would run listener requests and shout-outs all afternoon, playing nothing but solid domestic pop and local folk music. But now?
Who even decides what counts as a "popular trend" anymore? It used to be spontaneous, driven by what people actually liked. Nowadays, it feels manufactured. You see these "musical dynasties" popping up out of nowhere, families you’ve never even heard of before. Thankfully, one of those "dynasties" finally turned toward religion and left the nonsense behind. And don't even get me started on that ridiculous "starlet" from San Francisco who's constantly plastered all over Mexican television... People back in San Francisco just laugh at her. Then you have those "superbands" that exist for about forty-eight hours before vanishing into thin air.

Since when did any major US radio station or TV network start playing turbofolk?

Nowhere. And honestly, that’s precisely where the issue lies. TF is treated like contraband—official mainstream media refuses to acknowledge its existence, which is exactly why it thrives in the underground...

Jeffrey Sanchez10 said:The media bears a massive chunk of the blame for elevating trashy pop-folk to the level of a cult phenomenon.
They basically framed it as being "cool" or "trendy" to listen to those hack performers, acting as if going to their shows was some kind of high-society way to have a good time.
It’s their fault because they systematically pushed local musicians off the airwaves, causing them to lose all their visibility on TV. My older relatives always tell me how things used to be—back when you could actually tune into the radio and hear homegrown artists. On Sundays, the stations would run listener requests and shout-outs all afternoon, playing nothing but solid domestic pop and local folk music. But now?
Who even decides what counts as a "popular trend" anymore? It used to be spontaneous, driven by what people actually liked. Nowadays, it feels manufactured. You see these "musical dynasties" popping up out of nowhere, families you’ve never even heard of before. Thankfully, one of those "dynasties" finally turned toward religion and left the nonsense behind. And don't even get me started on that ridiculous "starlet" from San Francisco who's constantly plastered all over Mexican television... People back in San Francisco just laugh at her. Then you have those "superbands" that exist for about forty-eight hours before vanishing into thin air.

Jeffrey Sanchez10 said:The media bears a massive chunk of the blame for elevating trashy pop-folk to the level of a cult phenomenon.
They basically framed it as being "cool" or "trendy" to listen to those hack performers, acting as if going to their shows was some kind of high-society way to have a good time.
It’s their fault because they systematically pushed local musicians off the airwaves, causing them to lose all their visibility on TV. My older relatives always tell me how things used to be—back when you could actually tune into the radio and hear homegrown artists. On Sundays, the stations would run listener requests and shout-outs all afternoon, playing nothing but solid domestic pop and local folk music. But now?
Who even decides what counts as a "popular trend" anymore? It used to be spontaneous, driven by what people actually liked. Nowadays, it feels manufactured. You see these "musical dynasties" popping up out of nowhere, families you’ve never even heard of before. Thankfully, one of those "dynasties" finally turned toward religion and left the nonsense behind. And don't even get me started on that ridiculous "starlet" from San Francisco who's constantly plastered all over Mexican television... People back in San Francisco just laugh at her. Then you have those "superbands" that exist for about forty-eight hours before vanishing into thin air.

Michelle Newman6 said:Since when did any major US radio station or TV network start playing turbofolk?

Nowhere. And honestly, that’s precisely where the issue lies. TF is treated like contraband—official mainstream media refuses to acknowledge its existence, which is exactly why it thrives in the underground...

It’s just playing on the radio.
Honestly, there’s pretty much zero actual music programming on TV these days unless you count CMT, but even then, from what I’ve gathered, they just loop nothing but country hits on repeat.
So, I honestly have no clue what you're even talking about.

I gotta admit, I haven't really been keeping up with whatever garbage the local news stations have been airing lately.

Jeffrey Sanchez10 said:The media bears a massive chunk of the blame for elevating trashy pop-folk to the level of a cult phenomenon.
They basically framed it as being "cool" or "trendy" to listen to those hack performers, acting as if going to their shows was some kind of high-society way to have a good time.
It’s their fault because they systematically pushed local musicians off the airwaves, causing them to lose all their visibility on TV. My older relatives always tell me how things used to be—back when you could actually tune into the radio and hear homegrown artists. On Sundays, the stations would run listener requests and shout-outs all afternoon, playing nothing but solid domestic pop and local folk music. But now?
Who even decides what counts as a "popular trend" anymore? It used to be spontaneous, driven by what people actually liked. Nowadays, it feels manufactured. You see these "musical dynasties" popping up out of nowhere, families you’ve never even heard of before. Thankfully, one of those "dynasties" finally turned toward religion and left the nonsense behind. And don't even get me started on that ridiculous "starlet" from San Francisco who's constantly plastered all over Mexican television... People back in San Francisco just laugh at her. Then you have those "superbands" that exist for about forty-eight hours before vanishing into thin air.

I mean, calling it a "cult"... that feels like a bit of a stretch.

The real issue is that this genre actually serves a purpose, if you think about it. It’s stuff you can drink to, dance to, scream along to, and just lose your mind to. You think people are going to do that to Taylor Swift or Beyoncé? Even if we try to apply logic and look for local artists who pull that off... there aren't many.

Another thing with this style is that weird Middle Eastern vibe that everyone in the States seems to dig. People love it because, honestly, we don't sound like the rest of the Western world. We end up feeling like our own little exotic niche. People want something they can call "ours"—something that sounds unique and catchy even if they don't get the lyrics. And yeah, Taylor Swift definitely isn't that.

So what now?
Who exactly decides what the "big trends" are these days? It used to be spontaneous, but nowadays, it feels like it's all being forced down our throats.

It’s the production houses and the listeners... the problem is that around here we just don't have any real talent or high-end production.

Instead, we get these "music dynasties" where you haven't even heard of the family names before. Luckily, that whole "dynasty" pivoted to religion and left the nonsense behind. Have you seen that ridiculous "socialite" from San Diego who's always popping up on those tabloid networks? People in San Diego can't help but laugh at her. Then you have those "supergroups" that only exist for a week, etc.

Yeah, "supergroups" like Saša Tin and Kedjo who had exactly one hit. One song in a whole year, right?
The truth is, we're mediocre at everything, including this. Our music industry should focus on crafting a whole new signature sound rather than just chasing the next one-hit wonder.

Something that feels homegrown but still has that slightly exotic edge.

Which US radio station is even playing Mexican TF?

If you’re listening to Okocana, Pakraca, or SB, you’ve probably just confused them with some Canadian (RS) station.

Jonathan Ortiz2 said:It’s just playing on the radio.
Honestly, there’s pretty much zero actual music programming on TV these days unless you count CMT, but even then, from what I’ve gathered, they just loop nothing but country hits on repeat.
So, I honestly have no clue what you're even talking about.

I gotta admit, I haven't really been keeping up with whatever garbage the local news stations have been airing lately.

Our local artists are putting out such mid tracks—it’s all just so uninspired and lacks any real edge. Honestly, there's zero vibe. I'd love to run a poll just to see if anyone actually tunes into our mainstream radio stations (Republican Party) anymore. I was even thinking about commissioning a custom song, but I can't figure out how to go about it.
The whole scene is missing those young, high-energy performers in that 18-25 range who actually bring some life to the party.