CheckEmoji Community · the emoji forum
🏠 Home 🆕 What's new ❓ Unanswered 🔥 Popular 📡 RSS Members 👥 0 online log in · register
Home › Culture & Entertainment › Movies › Blockbuster or Indie?

Blockbuster or Indie?

Started by dustycanyon5 · · 👁 9 views · 115 replies

📡 Subscribe to replies

Participants dustycanyon5Lisa Carter68Jessica Morris6briskmarlin44Amanda Robinson4Paul Anderson7Gerald Jackson48Jamie Adams6Steven White7ruggedbadger2Richard Wilson4Lawrence Booth2granitecyclistvivideagle7Amy Jones2Kevin Turner4briskhound2Noah Roberts46bluecyclist64Joshua Smith5cosmiclynx57Karen Smith9Raymond Walker5Samuel Scott54 …
Kevin Turner4 Kevin Turner4 Member
14 messages
joined Feb 2018
#21 ·
Looks like this thread ended up in the wrong section. My bad.

Sure, it's a load of nonsense, but I'm actually glad they finally put it up.
dustycanyon5 said:Honestly, I haven't really sat through a single Hollywood blockbuster that actually holds any artistic weight. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're all garbage... some of those big studio flicks are actually super fun and I love them for what they are. But from an artistic standpoint? Nothing really sticks. At the end of the day, their main goal is just making bank at the box office.

A few people here have already started pointing out certain directors. But we really need to talk about Hitchcock. He’s widely considered one of the greatest—if not quite *the* greatest—to ever pick up a camera. The man fundamentally reshaped the entire landscape of cinema. Just look at the legacy left by classics like Psycho, The Birds, Notorious, or Rear Window. Truly transformative stuff.

*Notorious* was one of the biggest hits of its year—a massive commercial success. Same goes for *Psycho*. And *Rear Window*? Another absolute juggernaut. I actually had a professor back in college—a true legend in American film studies—who used to lecture us on this exact topic. I remember his take on Hitchcock vividly. If you’re going to stand there and claim that kind of work isn't art, then you're essentially dismissing everything he taught us. He used to say Hitchcock possessed the most precise, flawless technique of any director in history. Right behind him, he absolutely revered John Ford, whose work served as a masterclass for so many of us. So, here you come, dropping this kind of nonsense. You’re practically spitting on the legacy of the great directors who mastered the balance of commerce and craft, and frankly, you're insulting the memory of the scholars who dedicated their lives to understanding them.


The problem with you and people like you is that you've been taught all wrong. And I know exactly how you were raised. You're probably still young enough that someone fed you this idea that only Bergman, Tarkovsky, and Lynch count—as if they're the only true artists in existence. It’s always the same crowd, too; the ones who act like Max Ophuls is the only director worth their salt. You've got the education all skewed. Hitchcock proved you can bridge the gap between high art and commercial success. You know, look at the heavyweights: Hitchcock, Coppola, Scorsese, Ford, Friedkin, Wilder... I mean, what's your deal with Billy Wilder?

You’re mistaken if you think "commercial" cinema only means Michael Bay and his crowd. What about Coppola? Are you telling me *The Godfather* isn't a commercial film? There you go. It made a mountain of money and carved its way permanently into pop culture. And it isn't just about the box office; it's the cultural footprint. Look at Scorsese—half his filmography is massive hits. *Taxi Driver* and *Goodfellas*, for instance. Most people would label those two as mere commercial fare rather than high art, which is honestly a pretty silly distinction to make. Because, at the end of the day, those films are pure art.

The issue is pretty simple: you’ve just been taught the wrong way. You need to broaden your horizons. Look, I love Lynch, Tarkovsky, and especially Bergman too, but please—don't generalize like that. Think a little harder before you hit post.

What is the deal with Kubrick? Even if you look at *2001: A Space Odyssey*, it pulled in some decent numbers for its era, but beyond that, almost his entire filmography has become permanent pop culture staples. Honestly, guys like Kubrick, Hitchcock, and Scorsese sit on a pedestal for anyone who actually enjoys high-quality commercial cinema. I’ve spent far too much time scrolling through various "Best Of" lists over the years, and it’s always the same pattern. You see *The Shining*, *2001*, *Taxi Driver*, *Goodfellas*, *Psycho*, and *Rear Window* popping up right alongside heavy hitters like *Terminator*, *Indiana Jones*, and *Back to the Future*. It’s a consistent club.

It’s all pop culture, really. But you’ll almost never see this crowd gravitating toward Bergman or Tarkovsky. It isn't because those directors aren't masterpieces—it's just that these folks tend to cap their intellectual curiosity at Kubrick or Hitchcock. There’s a certain line they won't cross, a boundary where Tarkovsky and Bergman live on the other side. Which, if you think about it, is a bit damning for Hitchcock, Kubrick, and Scorsese. They get lumped in with the heavyweights on every "Greatest of All Time" list, yet they still fall under the umbrella of commercial cinema for this group. Meanwhile, you’ll rarely see anyone putting James Cameron or Robert Zemeckis in that same conversation.

Does that ring a bell for you? Personally, I think it does. I’m okay with all of it—the people swimming right on the edge, those outside the lines, and even those firmly inside them. You, though? You only seem interested in what's outside the boundaries. Probably because someone older told you so, or maybe you just read somewhere back when you were a kid that this was how you were supposed to think.
Jessica Morris6 Jessica Morris6 Active Member
195 messages
joined Nov 2022
#22 ·
Kevin Turner4 said:[/I]

👍

I honestly think it might be the most successful Brazilian film out there.

I’m not so sure, we really need to look at how much those elite SWAT units actually pocketed... It's a tough call, though I'd say Pixote is also a strong contender since it hits on themes pretty similar to City of God.
Kevin Turner4 Kevin Turner4 Member
14 messages
joined Feb 2018
#23 ·
The film had its big debut out of competition at the 2002 Cannes Film Festival.[5] Over in Brazil, City of God was an absolute juggernaut in 2003, pulling in a massive audience with more than 300.1 million tickets sold and raking in 180.6 million reais ($103 million).[6] On the Stateside front, it pulled in over $7.5 million, eventually clearing $30.5 million at the global box office.

Yeah, a massive success. But you make a fair point regarding the elite squad trope.

Elite Squad went on to become one of the most iconic films in Brazilian history. Per Datafolha, 77% of folks living in New York City were aware of the movie. Word of mouth played a huge role in its spread, too—the same poll showed that 80% of viewers rated it as either "excellent" or "good."[6] It originally premiered in major hubs like New York and Los Angeles on October 5, 2007 (with hopes that the Department of Culture would select it as the American entry for the Best Foreign Language Film Oscar). A nationwide rollout followed on October 12, 2007. By January 2008, theater attendance had hit the 2.5 million mark.[7] Even without much more than some billboards for promotion, it drew in 180,000 viewers during its opening weekend in those major cities.

There it is. Another stellar film.

And honestly, you could apply that same logic to TV series. The Sopranos was a commercial powerhouse. And the newer Narcos? Same story.
Amanda Robinson4 Amanda Robinson4 Active Member
159 messages
joined Nov 2014
#24 ·
Honestly, we shouldn't get too caught up in drawing lines between "art" and "commercial stuff." It’s the exact same deal with music. You can compare Pink Floyd to, I don't know, some massive pop star who somehow manages to sell out stadiums every single night... which I still don't quite get! Sure, Pink Floyd made plenty of money from their records and tours, obviously, but the artistic weight behind their work is just on a whole different level compared to the other guy.

The real issue is thinking that because you're watching one specific thing, it belongs to some "superior" category compared to what everyone else is enjoying. That feels a little snobby to me...

Nowadays, when people say "art," they usually mean those indie arthouse movies—the ones made without worrying about the box office, where the director actually gets to follow their own vision and message. But just because a movie follows an auteur's dream doesn't automatically make it better than a big blockbuster designed by marketing teams to please the masses.

I mean, really, what's the actual metric for high artistic value if it isn't the ability to connect deeply with a huge number of people in such a powerful way?
dustycanyon5 dustycanyon5 MemberOP
49 messages
joined May 2017
#25 ·
I wouldn't say Hitchcock is one of my all-time favorite directors, even if everyone else seems to treat him like some kind of god... I mean, don't get me wrong, there are definitely movies of his I enjoy—they're solid, engaging, and fun to watch—but he just never really dove into those heavy, universal life themes that you see with guys like Kubrick, Bergman, or even Scorsese. To me, that’s what separates a good filmmaker from a true cinematic artist...
briskhound2 briskhound2 Regular
411 messages
joined Mar 2009
#26 ·
dustycanyon5 said:I wouldn't say Hitchcock is one of my all-time favorite directors, even if everyone else seems to treat him like some kind of god... I mean, don't get me wrong, there are definitely movies of his I enjoy—they're solid, engaging, and fun to watch—but he just never really dove into those heavy, universal life themes that you see with guys like Kubrick, Bergman, or even Scorsese. To me, that’s what separates a good filmmaker from a true cinematic artist...

Wait, where exactly does Kubrick deal with deep, universal themes? His two biggest hits (2001 & The Shining) are basically style over substance... honestly, most of the criticism regarding The Shining is because he completely ignored the dramatic core of the book just to focus on the visuals.
vivideagle7 vivideagle7 Active Member
135 messages
joined Oct 2014
#27 ·
dustycanyon5 said:I wouldn't say Hitchcock is one of my all-time favorite directors, even if everyone else seems to treat him like some kind of god... I mean, don't get me wrong, there are definitely movies of his I enjoy—they're solid, engaging, and fun to watch—but he just never really dove into those heavy, universal life themes that you see with guys like Kubrick, Bergman, or even Scorsese. To me, that’s what separates a good filmmaker from a true cinematic artist...

So, in your book, a movie lacks artistic merit unless it's tackling those deep, existential life questions? 🤣

Are you saying Hitchcock's work just doesn't count as art?
Kevin Turner4 Kevin Turner4 Member
14 messages
joined Feb 2018
#28 ·
dustycanyon5 said:I wouldn't say Hitchcock is one of my all-time favorite directors, even if everyone else seems to treat him like some kind of god... I mean, don't get me wrong, there are definitely movies of his I enjoy—they're solid, engaging, and fun to watch—but he just never really dove into those heavy, universal life themes that you see with guys like Kubrick, Bergman, or even Scorsese. To me, that’s what separates a good filmmaker from a true cinematic artist...

Man, you really just talk in circles, don't you? You're laying it on thick, but honestly, there isn't a single actual argument in that whole mess.

So, according to this Bolden guy, Villeneuve belongs in the same conversation. And you’re actually trying to tell me that Villeneuve is a superior director to legends like Hitchcock or Billy Wilder just because he tackles "universal" life themes? Give me a break. Honestly, statements like that don't come from anyone with actual experience in film. They come from people like you—likely very young, and probably just repeating whatever someone shoved into your head to make you sound smart.

Villeneuve is a solid director, sure. But you don't judge a filmmaker solely by how they tackle universal themes or life lessons. You have to look at what they actually bring to the craft itself. And if we're talking about sheer impact on the medium? Hitchcock is in a league of his own. The man practically redefined the thriller genre and left a massive footprint on everything from the French New Wave to guys like Scorsese or Tarantino. He basically built an entire lineage of students. Ultimately, a director's greatness is measured by the quality of their filmography and their ability to command a scene. On those fronts, Hitchcock sits at the top of the mountain. Honestly, he probably holds the record for having the highest density of absolute masterpieces. And don't even get me started on his technical precision—the framing, the zooming, that surgical control over the lens... it’s just unreal. It's a completely different stratosphere than Villeneuve, who, again, is good, but simply isn't playing the same game.

To be honest, I’m more impressed by how Hitch can take a completely mundane, everyday shop and somehow spin it into something magical—something tense, thrilling, and genuinely creative.

Take a look at this statement of his. It’s a masterclass in how to actually think—something most directors just can't seem to grasp.

“People seem to constantly trip over the line between "suspense" and "surprise," though they’re worlds apart. It’s a distinction that gets lost in far too many films. Let me try to break it down.

Let’s engage in a bit of a harmless thought experiment. Imagine we’re sitting here, just having a quiet, unassuming conversation. Now, picture a bomb tucked right under this table between us. For a long while, nothing happens. Everything stays perfectly still. Then, out of nowhere—"Boom!" An explosion rips through the room. To the public watching, it's a total shock. But just moments before that blast, they weren't looking at a crisis; they were looking at a completely mundane, unremarkable scene. No warning. No drama. Just an ordinary moment that suddenly ceased to exist. Think about a classic suspense setup. Picture this: there’s a bomb tucked right under the table, and everyone watching knows it—maybe because they just saw some radical extremist plant it there themselves. The crowd is fully aware that the timer is set for one o'clock, and there’s a clock prominently displayed in the room. As the hand hits twelve forty-five, the tension reaches a breaking point. Under these circumstances, even the most mundane, trivial conversation suddenly becomes riveting. Why? Because the audience isn't just watching; they're part of the scene. You find yourself leaning in, desperate to scream at the characters on the screen: "For heaven's sake, stop discussing such nonsense! There is a bomb under your feet and it’s about to go off!"

In the first scenario, we gave the audience a mere fifteen seconds of shock during the blast. In the second, we stretched that tension out into fifteen full minutes of suspense. My takeaway? Whenever you can, keep the public in the loop. Unless, of course, the whole point is the twist—when that sudden, jarring ending is actually the star of the show.”


You know, your big mentor David Lynch has gone on record multiple times calling *Rear Window* one of the best films ever made, and he’s always held Hitchcock in the highest regard. I can only imagine what that mentor of yours would think of these claims you're making. Look, I’m not forcing you to like anyone, but statements like yours—claiming that the directors of the Romanian New Wave are the greatest of all time simply because they focus almost exclusively on gritty, life-centered themes—only end up hurting your own credibility. Don't get me wrong, they’re talented filmmakers, but let's not get carried away.
dustycanyon5 dustycanyon5 MemberOP
49 messages
joined May 2017
#29 ·
briskhound2 said:Wait, where exactly does Kubrick deal with deep, universal themes? His two biggest hits (2001 & The Shining) are basically style over substance... honestly, most of the criticism regarding The Shining is because he completely ignored the dramatic core of the book just to focus on the visuals.

Wait, did you seriously just call the Odyssey a blockbuster???
dustycanyon5 dustycanyon5 MemberOP
49 messages
joined May 2017
#30 ·
Look, I never said Hitchcock was a bad director, it’s just that there isn't really any "art" in his stuff. He mostly stuck to those psychological thrillers... they're gripping and intense, sure, but they lack that artistic soul. I know dustycanyon5 looks up to him as a mentor, but just because he feels that way doesn't mean I have to agree. And honestly, even with Lynch, I wouldn't call him the greatest director ever, even if he is my absolute favorite...
briskhound2 briskhound2 Regular
411 messages
joined Mar 2009
#31 ·
dustycanyon5 said:Wait, did you seriously just call the Odyssey a blockbuster???

Nah, I’m asking what makes it so deep or dramatic that people insist on labeling it "art cinema." The whole concept of a "blockbuster" didn't even exist back then, though Odyssey was definitely shot with commercial appeal in mind—kind of like how they approached The Shining...
Jessica Morris6 Jessica Morris6 Active Member
195 messages
joined Nov 2022
#32 ·
briskhound2 said:Nah, I’m asking what makes it so deep or dramatic that people insist on labeling it "art cinema." The whole concept of a "blockbuster" didn't even exist back then, though Odyssey was definitely shot with commercial appeal in mind—kind of like how they approached The Shining...

Exactly. The first true blockbuster was Star Wars.
briskhound2 briskhound2 Regular
411 messages
joined Mar 2009
#33 ·
Jessica Morris6 said:Exactly. The first true blockbuster was Star Wars.

Actually, it was Jaws. That was the one that really kicked off the whole summer blockbuster thing—wide releases everywhere all at once...
ruggedbadger2 ruggedbadger2 Member
31 messages
joined Dec 2016
#34 ·
briskhound2 said:Wait, where exactly does Kubrick deal with deep, universal themes? His two biggest hits (2001 & The Shining) are basically style over substance... honestly, most of the criticism regarding The Shining is because he completely ignored the dramatic core of the book just to focus on the visuals.

https://web.archive.org/web/20141008...d.com/id4.html

With Kubrick, I guess style and substance are equally important.
Noah Roberts46 Noah Roberts46 Regular
407 messages
joined Jun 2021
#35 ·
dustycanyon5 said:I wouldn't say Hitchcock is one of my all-time favorite directors, even if everyone else seems to treat him like some kind of god... I mean, don't get me wrong, there are definitely movies of his I enjoy—they're solid, engaging, and fun to watch—but he just never really dove into those heavy, universal life themes that you see with guys like Kubrick, Bergman, or even Scorsese. To me, that’s what separates a good filmmaker from a true cinematic artist...

Don't be embarrassed by your take. 🤦

briskhound2 said:Actually, it was Jaws. That was the one that really kicked off the whole summer blockbuster thing—wide releases everywhere all at once...

Yeah, but Ralston was the blueprint. In my view, it was an artistic achievement that fundamentally shifted the trajectory of everything that came after it.
Jessica Morris6 Jessica Morris6 Active Member
195 messages
joined Nov 2022
#36 ·
briskhound2 said:Actually, it was Jaws. That was the one that really kicked off the whole summer blockbuster thing—wide releases everywhere all at once...

That’s a fair point. I honestly didn't realize those massive hype cycles started with Spielberg's shark... I've come across that idea a few times before, but whenever people talk about the birth of the modern blockbuster era, they always seem to point toward Star Wars instead...
bluecyclist64 bluecyclist64 Regular
369 messages
joined Oct 2011
#37 ·
vivideagle7 said:So, in your book, a movie lacks artistic merit unless it's tackling those deep, existential life questions? 🤣

Are you saying Hitchcock's work just doesn't count as art?

If you ran into him in a high school hallway, I'd bet my last dollar you wouldn't be able to name even three Hitchcock films... 🥳
Noah Roberts46 Noah Roberts46 Regular
407 messages
joined Jun 2021
#38 ·
Jessica Morris6 said:That’s a fair point. I honestly didn't realize those massive hype cycles started with Spielberg's shark... I've come across that idea a few times before, but whenever people talk about the birth of the modern blockbuster era, they always seem to point toward Star Wars instead...

It's a classic trivia question. Jaws was the first real summer blockbuster.
Steven White7 Steven White7 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Aug 2022
#39 ·
dustycanyon5 said:Look, I never said Hitchcock was a bad director, it’s just that there isn't really any "art" in his stuff. He mostly stuck to those psychological thrillers... they're gripping and intense, sure, but they lack that artistic soul. I know dustycanyon5 looks up to him as a mentor, but just because he feels that way doesn't mean I have to agree. And honestly, even with Lynch, I wouldn't call him the greatest director ever, even if he is my absolute favorite...

So, what, art can only exist if you’re tackling deep philosophical themes? That’s a pretty narrow view if you ask me. What about, you know, actual craft—the skill, the technique, the way things are built? Is character development not an art form? What about editing? By that logic, some dense existentialist manifesto would be considered "more artistic" than a beautifully composed song, which just sounds ridiculous to me.
Gerald Jackson48 Gerald Jackson48 Active Member
125 messages
joined Jun 2018
#40 ·
bluecyclist64 said:If you ran into him in a high school hallway, I'd bet my last dollar you wouldn't be able to name even three Hitchcock films... 🥳

What am I supposed to do, help him out? Psycho, The Birds, and what was that one with the Head? 🤔

You must log in or register to reply here.

Log in Register

🔗 Similar threads