A Marxist perspective...

.. Jesus wouldn't be a complete personality ..

.. I think Marxism is truly rooted in labor .. and it interprets social relations and man himself .. starting from his position within that labor ..
.. This doesn't have to be .. direct .. and it isn't .. because a capitalist can just as easily question his own standing .. as a class adversary .. and I believe the greatest ideas were born that way .. through the play of opposites .. yet labor remains the foundation for everything ..
.. Even our entire modern world .. stands upon .. the act of doing .. people are defined by their place .. in the world .. by human actions within the world .. amidst all that chaos of events .. driven by people ..

.. A Marxist Jesus has no grounding in labor .. he exists outside of that world ..

.. Let's say that isn't the issue .. .. let's look at something else instead ..

.. Philosophically .. Jesus is only half a personality ..

.. Well .. now this situation gets interesting .. because one man has had half of his humanity erased .. not for athletic .. but ideological reasons ..

.. The half that was left to him is .. the god of love .. who meets stone with bread ..

.. And the half that was deleted .. is anarchy .. or individualism .. being beyond the system .. beyond any regime ..
.. When he says give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's .. the unspoken continuation is .. screw them both ..

.. His .. socially unattached .. half .. was enough to drive him to the cross .. because he accepted neither his neighbors nor their gods .. .. and later .. once that half is totally .. erased .. he becomes .. the perfect guardian of the establishment ..

.. So .. his love .. stripped of his independence .. turned a .. great man .. into the ultimate coward ..
.. A coward tailored to fit every single coward .. across various neighborhoods over the last two thousand years ..

.. One last thing ..

.. I'm taking this opportunity .. to apologize to the real man .. because I held him in contempt as a coward and a piece of trash simply because that's how he was presented to me .. and I wasn't able to piece together the other half into .. a real human being .. .. because that .. certain .. coward .. just pissed me off so much ..

.. I'm taking this opportunity .. to damn all that paradise .. which took a man .. damn it .. who was almost God .. and managed to turn him into a coward .. just so it could survive .. on its own .. surviving in such a base and filthy way ..
.. May all that paradise be cursed .. and may its every seed be cursed ..

If you look at it through a Marxist lens...

Well, in that case, I guess I’m a total Marxist.😁 You really nailed the structure here... though I’ve got a few gripes regarding the human element. But hey, nothing is ever truly perfect. There are some bizarre inconsistencies that just clash with that "flawless" image of Jesus. It felt like it hit you hard, didn't it? Like it reached somewhere deep inside. Was it a tear in your eye, or are you just being more than your usual self—just stirring up the neighborhood on a global scale?

.. I know I feel this way because my old neighborhood... well, it absolutely tore me apart. It was brutal. So now I find myself wondering if my perspective is even sane—if it’s just a constant, lingering weight.
.. But this stuff regarding Jesus—and honestly, much of this—it touches on true philosophy.
.. If Jesus saw the organizations built specifically to worship him today... I am certain he would tear them all down.

.. In a world full of lost causes, having cults preaching about paradise is a joke. You're supposed to love everyone, right? Because your reward is in heaven. Which basically means you end up taking the absolute worst kinds of people as your teachers and building the most broken world imaginable.
.. What Jesus actually said to people was meant for the individual—for the soul standing alone. To take those words and force them into the mouths of priests, in a world where the individual has been erased to kill off any spark of freedom... well, God is going to have to punish that. Hell, I hope He does.

.. From a philosophical standpoint, it's incredible—how a story that has been completely copied and stripped of its other half becomes... its own polar opposite.

Are you absolutely certain we’re actually keeping the "individual" in mind here?
To me, it feels like all this talk is exactly what triggered the slow death of individualism... honestly, it stems from religion in general... from this whole "us versus them" mentality...
It’s just such a grotesque mismatch—this word "love," which has been completely cheapened and hollowed out, clashing against their actual actions. It’s a total contradiction: they spend centuries preaching about modesty and renouncing worldly possessions, yet they act in the name of a God they claim to serve while doing the exact opposite.

What really gets to me, though, is this deep-seated hatred for life itself. If you take a good, hard look at the heavens, it’s hardly any surprise that you can’t find anything of substance left on earth...

.. yeah .. ever since Jesus .. the world has lost sight of what it means to be an individual ..
.. it’s been this way .. since the Greeks
.. and Jesus was .. the last .. damn it .. a real man .. a good one ..
.. he could have remained a model .. a perfect example .. or a brilliant tool for manipulation .. over the next two thousand years .. if you just split him apart .. and throw half of him away ..

Are you familiar with what Epictetus taught? He used to argue—and actually live by the principle—that you shouldn't get angry at someone who strips the clothes right off your back. His logic was that if you view your possessions as mere "clothing" rather than part of your core self, you won't feel robbed. In fact, he suggested you should just hand over whatever else they want. He also spoke about turning the other cheek and practicing *philanthropia* when facing those who strike you, all in the pursuit of moral excellence. Even Seneca noted how pathetic a person is when they respond "tooth for a tooth." Doesn't that sound like the starting point for contemplating superiority over others? Like a massive egotrip?

Tell me, what did Jesus specifically do for the people surrounding Him?

And why did He destroy that miserable fig tree? I mean, it couldn't possibly bear fruit in the winter anyway. Why does this non-Jewish woman have to humble herself so much before she can receive "mercy"?

Why do we even bother making things up? I’m telling you, if you spend all your time staring at the sky, you miss everything right in front of you... including the very people walking beside you.

.. well .. I don't think they'd see eye to eye anymore ..
.. what I’m getting at is .. that .. now .. we can build upon the teachings of Jesus .. and continue following his path ..

Look, this whole thing with that barren fig tree is incredibly telling. It’s all just a thinly veiled metaphor for "individualism." Basically, the message is: if you aren't producing results—meaning, if you don't blindly follow the party line like a sheep following a shepherd—then you’re going to face the fate of that tree. He was so furious because it didn't bear fruit when he was hungry, even though the poor thing was simply out of season. The implication? You'll be uprooted entirely. Just look at how it plays out...

That alone tells the whole story. Is this really about a person, an individual, or just a loyal little party member?

redtinker36 said:.. well .. I don't think they'd see eye to eye anymore ..
.. what I’m getting at is .. that .. now .. we can build upon the teachings of Jesus .. and continue following his path ..

Yeah... there's no way they'd understand each other...

redtinker36 said:.. Jesus wouldn't be a complete personality ..

.. I think Marxism is truly rooted in labor .. and it interprets social relations and man himself .. starting from his position within that labor ..
.. This doesn't have to be .. direct .. and it isn't .. because a capitalist can just as easily question his own standing .. as a class adversary .. and I believe the greatest ideas were born that way .. through the play of opposites .. yet labor remains the foundation for everything ..
.. Even our entire modern world .. stands upon .. the act of doing .. people are defined by their place .. in the world .. by human actions within the world .. amidst all that chaos of events .. driven by people ..

.. A Marxist Jesus has no grounding in labor .. he exists outside of that world ..

.. Let's say that isn't the issue .. .. let's look at something else instead ..

.. Philosophically .. Jesus is only half a personality ..

.. Well .. now this situation gets interesting .. because one man has had half of his humanity erased .. not for athletic .. but ideological reasons ..

.. The half that was left to him is .. the god of love .. who meets stone with bread ..

.. And the half that was deleted .. is anarchy .. or individualism .. being beyond the system .. beyond any regime ..
.. When he says give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's .. the unspoken continuation is .. screw them both ..

.. His .. socially unattached .. half .. was enough to drive him to the cross .. because he accepted neither his neighbors nor their gods .. .. and later .. once that half is totally .. erased .. he becomes .. the perfect guardian of the establishment ..

.. So .. his love .. stripped of his independence .. turned a .. great man .. into the ultimate coward ..
.. A coward tailored to fit every single coward .. across various neighborhoods over the last two thousand years ..

.. One last thing ..

.. I'm taking this opportunity .. to apologize to the real man .. because I held him in contempt as a coward and a piece of trash simply because that's how he was presented to me .. and I wasn't able to piece together the other half into .. a real human being .. .. because that .. certain .. coward .. just pissed me off so much ..

.. I'm taking this opportunity .. to damn all that paradise .. which took a man .. damn it .. who was almost God .. and managed to turn him into a coward .. just so it could survive .. on its own .. surviving in such a base and filthy way ..
.. May all that paradise be cursed .. and may its every seed be cursed ..

Man, you hit the nail on the head here—everything you said is spot on.
I don't even know how to put this—but over here, the Orthodox crowd treats Jesus like some kind of ultimate family bodyguard or whatever.
And when they start trashing certain groups—you know, like how people judge someone for walking away from their family because of some messed up belief system—they act like it’s some massive sin. They say God's gonna get 'em for abandoning their parents over it... like it's a moral failing or something.
Man... I’ve been digging through the Bible lately—and honestly? The core of Jesus' whole story is just that—walking away from everything and heading out on your own.

redtinker36 said:.. Jesus wouldn't be a complete personality ..

.. I think Marxism is truly rooted in labor .. and it interprets social relations and man himself .. starting from his position within that labor ..
.. This doesn't have to be .. direct .. and it isn't .. because a capitalist can just as easily question his own standing .. as a class adversary .. and I believe the greatest ideas were born that way .. through the play of opposites .. yet labor remains the foundation for everything ..
.. Even our entire modern world .. stands upon .. the act of doing .. people are defined by their place .. in the world .. by human actions within the world .. amidst all that chaos of events .. driven by people ..

.. A Marxist Jesus has no grounding in labor .. he exists outside of that world ..

.. Let's say that isn't the issue .. .. let's look at something else instead ..

.. Philosophically .. Jesus is only half a personality ..

.. Well .. now this situation gets interesting .. because one man has had half of his humanity erased .. not for athletic .. but ideological reasons ..

.. The half that was left to him is .. the god of love .. who meets stone with bread ..

.. And the half that was deleted .. is anarchy .. or individualism .. being beyond the system .. beyond any regime ..
.. When he says give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's .. the unspoken continuation is .. screw them both ..

.. His .. socially unattached .. half .. was enough to drive him to the cross .. because he accepted neither his neighbors nor their gods .. .. and later .. once that half is totally .. erased .. he becomes .. the perfect guardian of the establishment ..

.. So .. his love .. stripped of his independence .. turned a .. great man .. into the ultimate coward ..
.. A coward tailored to fit every single coward .. across various neighborhoods over the last two thousand years ..

.. One last thing ..

.. I'm taking this opportunity .. to apologize to the real man .. because I held him in contempt as a coward and a piece of trash simply because that's how he was presented to me .. and I wasn't able to piece together the other half into .. a real human being .. .. because that .. certain .. coward .. just pissed me off so much ..

.. I'm taking this opportunity .. to damn all that paradise .. which took a man .. damn it .. who was almost God .. and managed to turn him into a coward .. just so it could survive .. on its own .. surviving in such a base and filthy way ..
.. May all that paradise be cursed .. and may its every seed be cursed ..

Spot on—exactly.
Our leader can pull whatever nonsense he wants out of his hat—I mean, he’s got God on his side, right?
Look—it’s the same old story in this country... just one dynasty after another acting like they're chosen by God just to cling to power. It's all dirty politics, backstabbing, and straight-up hits on anyone who stands in their way. They'll wipe out anyone they deem an outsider just to keep their grip on things.

redtinker36 said:.. Jesus wouldn't be a complete personality ..

.. I think Marxism is truly rooted in labor .. and it interprets social relations and man himself .. starting from his position within that labor ..
.. This doesn't have to be .. direct .. and it isn't .. because a capitalist can just as easily question his own standing .. as a class adversary .. and I believe the greatest ideas were born that way .. through the play of opposites .. yet labor remains the foundation for everything ..
.. Even our entire modern world .. stands upon .. the act of doing .. people are defined by their place .. in the world .. by human actions within the world .. amidst all that chaos of events .. driven by people ..

.. A Marxist Jesus has no grounding in labor .. he exists outside of that world ..

.. Let's say that isn't the issue .. .. let's look at something else instead ..

.. Philosophically .. Jesus is only half a personality ..

.. Well .. now this situation gets interesting .. because one man has had half of his humanity erased .. not for athletic .. but ideological reasons ..

.. The half that was left to him is .. the god of love .. who meets stone with bread ..

.. And the half that was deleted .. is anarchy .. or individualism .. being beyond the system .. beyond any regime ..
.. When he says give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's .. the unspoken continuation is .. screw them both ..

.. His .. socially unattached .. half .. was enough to drive him to the cross .. because he accepted neither his neighbors nor their gods .. .. and later .. once that half is totally .. erased .. he becomes .. the perfect guardian of the establishment ..

.. So .. his love .. stripped of his independence .. turned a .. great man .. into the ultimate coward ..
.. A coward tailored to fit every single coward .. across various neighborhoods over the last two thousand years ..

.. One last thing ..

.. I'm taking this opportunity .. to apologize to the real man .. because I held him in contempt as a coward and a piece of trash simply because that's how he was presented to me .. and I wasn't able to piece together the other half into .. a real human being .. .. because that .. certain .. coward .. just pissed me off so much ..

.. I'm taking this opportunity .. to damn all that paradise .. which took a man .. damn it .. who was almost God .. and managed to turn him into a coward .. just so it could survive .. on its own .. surviving in such a base and filthy way ..
.. May all that paradise be cursed .. and may its every seed be cursed ..

Clear... and to the point.
Tailor-made for all the cowards out there—just a perfect excuse for everyone too weak to step up.

I don't have any content to rewrite for you yet. Please provide the posts you want me to transform! kaže:
I’m taking this chance to curse every single bit of paradise that—damn it—managed to breed nothing but a total coward... just so they could scrape by alone, living like absolute bottom-feeders.
Honestly—damn all those people to hell... and every single one of their offspring too.

Amen to that.

I don't have any content to rewrite yet. Please provide the posts you want me to transform! kaže:
Look, I only think this way because my old neighborhood absolutely tore me apart—it was brutal. So now the real question is whether I’m actually sane or just constantly on edge... you know how it is.

Why the hell do you care about what's "normal" anyway—it's none of your damn business.
If the whole neighborhood started eating crap... would you just join in too? Just asking.

I can't do anything with just a username. Give me some actual text to work with. kaže:
Look, this stuff about Jesus... and honestly, most of it—it's basically just pure philosophy.
If Jesus saw all these organizations that exist just to worship him... he’d probably tear them all down—I'm certain of it.

Could be... or you might just think it’s not worth the hassle—honestly, depends on how much energy you've got to burn.
Maybe he just stopped giving a damn about the neighbors... honestly, they're total trash—and let's be real—you can't expect anything useful from a bunch of losers.
... or maybe you'd just let the whole thing crumble—like how a house of cards falls apart when you pull one piece out.

Actually... Ivan Karamazov was saying something pretty much identical to what you're talking about right now—just like you.

I don't have any text to rewrite yet. Please provide the posts you want me to transform! kaže:
In this godforsaken world... you’ve got these cultists preaching about paradise—telling you to love everyone because that’s how you get your reward in heaven. It basically means you're taking the absolute worst people on earth as your teachers—and using them to build the most broken world imaginable.

Spot on... honestly, couldn't have said it better myself.
Those teachers? They're basically just coaching these little punks to stay on top—helping them sharpen their teeth for the fight.

redtinker36 said:.. Jesus wouldn't be a complete personality ..

.. I think Marxism is truly rooted in labor .. and it interprets social relations and man himself .. starting from his position within that labor ..
.. This doesn't have to be .. direct .. and it isn't .. because a capitalist can just as easily question his own standing .. as a class adversary .. and I believe the greatest ideas were born that way .. through the play of opposites .. yet labor remains the foundation for everything ..
.. Even our entire modern world .. stands upon .. the act of doing .. people are defined by their place .. in the world .. by human actions within the world .. amidst all that chaos of events .. driven by people ..

.. A Marxist Jesus has no grounding in labor .. he exists outside of that world ..

.. Let's say that isn't the issue .. .. let's look at something else instead ..

.. Philosophically .. Jesus is only half a personality ..

.. Well .. now this situation gets interesting .. because one man has had half of his humanity erased .. not for athletic .. but ideological reasons ..

.. The half that was left to him is .. the god of love .. who meets stone with bread ..

.. And the half that was deleted .. is anarchy .. or individualism .. being beyond the system .. beyond any regime ..
.. When he says give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's .. the unspoken continuation is .. screw them both ..

.. His .. socially unattached .. half .. was enough to drive him to the cross .. because he accepted neither his neighbors nor their gods .. .. and later .. once that half is totally .. erased .. he becomes .. the perfect guardian of the establishment ..

.. So .. his love .. stripped of his independence .. turned a .. great man .. into the ultimate coward ..
.. A coward tailored to fit every single coward .. across various neighborhoods over the last two thousand years ..

.. One last thing ..

.. I'm taking this opportunity .. to apologize to the real man .. because I held him in contempt as a coward and a piece of trash simply because that's how he was presented to me .. and I wasn't able to piece together the other half into .. a real human being .. .. because that .. certain .. coward .. just pissed me off so much ..

.. I'm taking this opportunity .. to damn all that paradise .. which took a man .. damn it .. who was almost God .. and managed to turn him into a coward .. just so it could survive .. on its own .. surviving in such a base and filthy way ..
.. May all that paradise be cursed .. and may its every seed be cursed ..

What would hell even look like...?

redtinker36 said:.. Jesus wouldn't be a complete personality ..

.. I think Marxism is truly rooted in labor .. and it interprets social relations and man himself .. starting from his position within that labor ..
.. This doesn't have to be .. direct .. and it isn't .. because a capitalist can just as easily question his own standing .. as a class adversary .. and I believe the greatest ideas were born that way .. through the play of opposites .. yet labor remains the foundation for everything ..
.. Even our entire modern world .. stands upon .. the act of doing .. people are defined by their place .. in the world .. by human actions within the world .. amidst all that chaos of events .. driven by people ..

.. A Marxist Jesus has no grounding in labor .. he exists outside of that world ..

.. Let's say that isn't the issue .. .. let's look at something else instead ..

.. Philosophically .. Jesus is only half a personality ..

.. Well .. now this situation gets interesting .. because one man has had half of his humanity erased .. not for athletic .. but ideological reasons ..

.. The half that was left to him is .. the god of love .. who meets stone with bread ..

.. And the half that was deleted .. is anarchy .. or individualism .. being beyond the system .. beyond any regime ..
.. When he says give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's .. the unspoken continuation is .. screw them both ..

.. His .. socially unattached .. half .. was enough to drive him to the cross .. because he accepted neither his neighbors nor their gods .. .. and later .. once that half is totally .. erased .. he becomes .. the perfect guardian of the establishment ..

.. So .. his love .. stripped of his independence .. turned a .. great man .. into the ultimate coward ..
.. A coward tailored to fit every single coward .. across various neighborhoods over the last two thousand years ..

.. One last thing ..

.. I'm taking this opportunity .. to apologize to the real man .. because I held him in contempt as a coward and a piece of trash simply because that's how he was presented to me .. and I wasn't able to piece together the other half into .. a real human being .. .. because that .. certain .. coward .. just pissed me off so much ..

.. I'm taking this opportunity .. to damn all that paradise .. which took a man .. damn it .. who was almost God .. and managed to turn him into a coward .. just so it could survive .. on its own .. surviving in such a base and filthy way ..
.. May all that paradise be cursed .. and may its every seed be cursed ..

.. we aren't gonna see eye to eye here .. on whether this is actually "mind-blowing" ..
.. because it isn't .. honestly? it's just basic and predictable ..
.. the deadliest lie out there is .. telling a partial truth .. leaving enough empty space to stuff in whatever bullshit you want ..

.. once you fill in those gaps and get back to the full picture .. all that room for nonsense disappears ..
.. and suddenly you've got a clear path ahead .. a straight shot for anyone trying to move forward ..

(.. yeah .. easier for me to reply this way .. bit by bit ..
.. you cool if I edit things as I go ..?)

.. nothing bothers me about it... honestly, I actually quite enjoy being praised like that..
.. it’s strange to me.. the idea that there’s nothing to delete or move away from.. though I have a feeling there will be things to deal with down the road.. some deeper, more philosophical stuff..

Understanding Jesus' philosophy isn't exactly a walk in the park—it’s not something you can just study from a distance. You have to actually live it, to be part of Him, if you ever hope to truly grasp it. One really ought to labor alongside Jesus to earn those same kinds of callouses...

People tend to cherry-pick what suits them, accepting only the bits and pieces that align with their own views—yet, they have absolutely no desire to be even partially aligned with Jesus. For most, "ignorance" serves as a convenient little excuse for why they don't get it, but when it comes to the sheer unwillingness to even try? Well, there’s no excuse for that...

.. come on, spit it out ..

.. still waiting on that answer about hell, by the way ..?

.. hey .. Jonathan Brooks8 ..
.. if someone had to actually be part of Jesus to wrap their head around it ..
.. does that mean the one doing the understanding is part of Jesus ..?

.. but .. to even know what the prerequisite for understanding is .. you have to be .. the one doing the understanding ..
.. so ..
.. you know the requirement for understanding ..
.. which means ..
.. you understand Jesus ..
.. so .. damn .. does that mean you're basically part of Jesus ..?

(.. damn .. but in what way ..?
.. redtinker36 is talking about the people who have been .. for centuries .. trying to be partial versions of Jesus ..

.. so .. you missed the mark again .. that whole thing about being partially like Jesus .. we aren't fighting that .. because it's bullshit ..
.. let's look at the whole picture .. the .. totality .. ( .. which basically means the whole thing .. completeness .. )

No, I didn't get that wrong—not by a long shot...
When I say "partially," I mean we're talking about a journey that never actually ends. Those people who would be satisfied with just a fragment of the truth—who stop halfway and then go around acting like they've grasped the whole thing—well, their actions would stem from a complete lack of understanding of Jesus (since you’re likely referring to those who carry His name on their lips while their minds are elsewhere).

For instance, Marx felt for the proletariat much the way Jesus felt for the downtrodden...

.. I mean .. personally .. I feel like .. if all the priests, bishops, and the Pope were to take their own lives .. it might actually be a step toward Jesus .. .. do you happen to agree?

The real question here is—what exactly do you mean when you use the term suicide...

... anything worth dying for...

.. my take would be ..
.. walking away from .. and letting go of .. the very things you need to exist .. just as you are right now ..

.. there are different ways to die .. and once it's done, the person who did it is gone ..

(.. man .. could you even argue that killing off your old self is the prerequisite for any actual progress ..? .. for any real change at all ..?)