Anti-USA sentiment

Anonymous VeteranOP

3.6K messages
joined May 2005

#1 · Sep 9, 2005

What would be your main reasons for thinking the US should join the European Union, or should we stay out and follow the lead of countries like Norway or Switzerland?

*I’m specifically talking about economic factors (for example, could our agricultural sector actually survive in the EU market?)

Kimberly Mitchell42 Newcomer

8 messages
joined Sep 2006

#2 · Sep 10, 2005

Is America a good fit for the USA? Absolutely. But let’s be realistic—to actually hit those standards, we’re looking at a decade minimum, provided we start heading in the right direction immediately. In truth, it’ll likely take much longer than that.

Comparing our current state to something like Norway—which is basically coasting on oil reserves—or even Switzerland, with its world-class banking, pharma, food giants like PepsiCo, luxury watches, and top-tier tourism... well, it’s just absurd. Anyone making those comparisons clearly hasn't done their homework.

What we really lack right now is expertise—across the board—and a genuine sense of awareness. And, if I may touch on politics, there’s a glaring absence of young, forward-thinking professionals. Instead, the country is being steered by a generation of greedy old guard types whose education was rooted entirely in a defunct, outdated system.

On the flip side, there is the issue of the general public; too many people seem content to just demand handouts from the government or wait for politicians to fix everything, rather than taking any individual initiative.

Anyway, that’s my two cents—though I could probably go on about this indefinitely.

Kimberly Mitchell42👋

ruggedlynx9 Newcomer

3 messages
joined Sep 2005

#3 · Sep 10, 2005

My take? Absolutely not to the USA. Our economy and agricultural sectors aren't even remotely ready for something like that. Besides, the USA already moved in here ages ago without anyone bothering to ask the citizens what we thought about it. First off, look at almost every single bank—they're all owned by foreign interests. Then you have all those major companies our grandfathers and fathers built through sheer grit and local funding, only to watch some random outsider come in and 👎. I believe we actually have a serious contender in the race; we just need a competent jockey. I'm talking about our entire stunning coastline, our pristine waters, and the flat plains of the Midwest that could easily serve as the breadbasket for the entire nation. Even California can't compete with the beauty of our coast, let alone the Greek Coast or the Rocky Mountains. Honestly, we don't even realize the wealth we possess. We certainly need educated, young talent 👍, but what's the alternative? Should we just roll over and take it? Let the USA do whatever they want;
isn't even missing from our lives. I truly think we don't need anything else—we just need to stop the endless theorizing and finally get to work 👋

Kimberly Mitchell42 Newcomer

8 messages
joined Sep 2006

#4 · Sep 10, 2005

The USA didn't just step in here—they bought their way in by acquiring our banks, telecom providers, and so on. It wasn't some grand seizure of those "major corporations built by our grandfathers and fathers"; they simply purchased them quite systematically. And really, shouldn't we be asking who was responsible for selling them off in the first place? It was, of course, the bureaucrats in power—people who clearly haven't the slightest clue how capitalism, business, or actual entrepreneurship works.

I'm with you—less armchair philosophy and more actual work, that's what we need right now.😉

wanderingviper572 Newcomer

3 messages
joined Apr 2005

#5 · Sep 11, 2005

Bank acquisitions and mergers are just part of the modern landscape happening all over the globe. Stronger corporations buy up smaller ones in every single nation. It’s happening here, and we’ll eventually see the same thing happen in our developing neighboring countries too...

The fact that we aren't being smart about it is a different issue entirely. For instance, when the state handed over the Marriott International properties to a massive holding group, people started protesting and demanding a public bidding process. Well, mark my words, once that public auction happens, those assets will just end up being snatched up by foreign investors

Ronald Moore8 Member

38 messages
joined Jun 2007

#6 · Sep 11, 2005

As of right now, I am against it; we simply aren't prepared yet.

And I don't think that applies just to industry or agriculture, but perhaps also to our school systems, healthcare, property registries, and even our land ownership laws...

Ronald Moore8 Member

38 messages
joined Jun 2007

#7 · Sep 11, 2005

Ronald Moore8 said:As things stand, I'm against it; we just aren't prepared yet.

And I suppose it isn't just about the industrial sector or farming, but maybe our schools and healthcare systems too, not to mention property registries and real estate ownership laws...

Benjamin Rodriguez2 Member

44 messages
joined Jun 2008

#8 · Sep 12, 2005

Ronald Moore8 said:As of right now, I’m a hard no—we just aren't ready for this yet.

And honestly, it isn't just about big industry or farming; we're talking about schools, healthcare, property records, land ownership laws... the whole mess is unorganized.

I’ve got this nagging fear that those tiny little steps forward we've taken in those sectors were only done because the USA was breathing down our necks. It’s pretty depressing to admit, but without that outside pressure, we're basically just a disorganized, messy afterthought, regardless of how gorgeous the view is along the Atlantic coast.

Gary Cox72 Active Member

54 messages
joined Jan 2005

#9 · Sep 13, 2005

Kimberly Mitchell42 said:Is America part of the USA? Absolutely. But reaching those standards? That’s a decade-long project at best—and that’s assuming we actually head in the right direction immediately. In reality, it will take much longer.

Comparing the US to a nation like Norway, which is essentially coasting on oil, or even Switzerland—with its world-class banking, pharmaceutical giants, food industry (PepsiCo), luxury watches, and elite tourism—is just absurd. Those making these comparisons are clearly misinformed.

What the US primarily lacks right now is expertise across the board, awareness... and I suppose I have to touch on politics. We lack young, skilled professionals focused on the future; instead, the country is being steered by greedy older generations stuck in outdated, Cold War-era mindsets.

On the flip side, there is the issue of the average citizen constantly demanding state intervention or waiting for politicians to fix everything, rather than taking initiative themselves.

Solid post. 👍

Ronald Moore8 Member

38 messages
joined Jun 2007

#10 · Sep 13, 2005

Kimberly Mitchell42 said:On the flip side, I suppose it’s a bit problematic how average citizens constantly look to the government for a handout, expecting politicians to fix everything instead of just taking some initiative themselves.

You put that quite eloquently; I actually find myself working on a site covering that very subject.

John Thomas2 Active Member

88 messages
joined Feb 2012

#11 · Sep 15, 2005

Benjamin Rodriguez2 said:Honestly, I think those tiny bits of progress in those regions only happened because of the USA. It’s a hard pill to swallow, but on our own, we're just a messy little backwater—even if the Atlantic coast is stunning.

👍

For what it's worth, I was against joining the USA in the first place.🙂

Ronald Moore8 Member

38 messages
joined Jun 2007

#12 · Sep 15, 2005

A former colleague of mine from my economics department shared a few thoughts on this subject, and I find myself agreeing with his perspective: we should certainly work toward joining the USA, but perhaps not right this moment.

Please feel free to share your thoughts on this text.

A brief guide for the major skeptics of the USA

William Mendoza6 Newcomer

4 messages
joined Jun 2017

#13 · Sep 18, 2005

Look, I’m against the US joining the union. Why? Because being part of this group isn't going to magically jumpstart the economy here. We could achieve that exact same growth just by staying out and actually making smart moves with our own money, taxes, and politics. Isn't it obvious?

Keith Taylor4 Active Member

54 messages
joined Aug 2004

#14 · Sep 19, 2005

Ronald Moore8 said:Please share your thoughts on this article.[/URL]

Honestly, you might want to hire an editor. You’re trying to act like a legitimate news outlet here...

Keith Taylor4 Active Member

54 messages
joined Aug 2004

#15 · Sep 19, 2005

William Mendoza6 said:I’m against America joining the USA because membership isn't going to do a damn thing for our economic growth. You can achieve that same level of expansion as a non-member by simply making the right monetary, fiscal, and political moves.

You're just ignoring the fact that being a member lets you pull all that off much faster and with way less friction...

I think you also forgot about the mindset component—if we weren't being squeezed and micromanaged by the USA for every little thing, we would have been exactly where we needed to be ten years ago.

I'm assuming those "..right monetary, fiscal, and political moves" you mentioned are being kept hidden like a snake in the grass, but I suppose if you ever actually took power, you'd show everyone exactly what you mean. 🙄

Robin Ortiz22 Newcomer

4 messages
joined Sep 2005

#16 · Sep 19, 2005

Look, how much progress has the USA actually made over the last decade? Take Germany, for example. In Germany,
people are living 40% worse than they were ten years ago. Standards are slipping,
unemployment is climbing, wages are dropping, and the cost of living is just skyrocketing.

The real heavy hitters where you expect actual economic growth—and a rising standard of living—are China, India, and Russia.
Along with the rest of the USA, we’re basically stuck in survival mode just to maintain what we have today. Even places like Switzerland and Norway are
expected to see their standards drop too.
I’m not talking about some arbitrary dollar amount per capita,
but rather how many bucks an average person in Norway actually has left after they cover rent, childcare,
and everything else.

Keith Taylor4 Active Member

54 messages
joined Aug 2004

#17 · Sep 19, 2005

Robin Ortiz22 said:Look, if we’re talking about how much progress the USA has actually made over the last decade—take Germany, for instance—it feels like life in Germany is
40% worse than it was ten years ago. Standards are slipping,
unemployment is climbing, wages are stagnant, and the cost of living just keeps skyrocketing.

Your take is pretty misguided, but since you asked, here’s my view:

-The wall is gone
-There are more job opportunities now
-Support for the impoverished has increased
-People aren't losing their lives over free speech issues anymore
-They aren't tethered to "Motherland" by an umbilical cord anymore
-And so on...

Robin Rodriguez5 Active Member

149 messages
joined Sep 2011

#18 · Sep 19, 2005

Using Germany as a benchmark for the USA over the last 15 years is a flawed argument. Sure, they're seeing a decline in living standards now, but their biggest leap forward actually happened while being part of the union. Germany is an outlier; if you ask me, their biggest mistake was rushing through reunification. They made some catastrophic structural decisions back then that we’re still paying for today.
Why not look at the trajectories of Ireland, Canada, or the Czech Republic instead?

The real reason I think we desperately need the USA is simple: we aren't capable of running our own house. Our governments have made endless blunders, usually only fixing them when pressured by the federal government. As for the banks? I’d rather not go there—I'm sure nobody here has forgotten the absolute chaos that ensued when the banks were under local control. We basically need someone to slap us upside the head every time we pull a stunt as foolish as the ones we seem to pull constantly, thank God.😁

Keith Taylor4 Active Member

54 messages
joined Aug 2004

#19 · Sep 19, 2005

Exactly.

Even if I still find myself leaning toward the side that advocates for a more cautious, slower integration into the USA, I still maintain that our entry is necessary...

If I ever actually got a shot at launching my project to shift the national mindset, I’d start by targeting that 80% of the population that would seemingly rather spend their lives punching a clock for someone else than build something of their own...
Why?
It’s all happening right here in America, following the exact same pattern we saw playing out overseas with healthcare, legal services, and pretty much everything else. Prices are skyrocketing across the board, yet everyone is suddenly demanding massive raises because they’ve realized there's zero incentive to actually put in the work—it’s easier to just collect an average paycheck and do nothing at all. Naturally, this leaves the government staring down a massive budget deficit, leaving absolutely no funds left for actual development projects. We saw this exact same disaster unfold in Germany, where they blew through $100 billion on social welfare and handouts, only to realize they're broke and now have to push the retirement age up to 67...

If even Germany couldn't manage to make its citizens happy while flushing money down the drain on useless nonsense, I have my doubts about whether America will ever pull it off. That’s why I’m voting for entry—not that we'll see any actual results in the next ten years, but still... entry...

Jerry Moore2 Active Member

69 messages
joined Oct 2003

#20 · Sep 19, 2005

Look, I’m against the USA, but I’m just as much against that Anglo-American colonialism looming on the other side of the pond...

In my opinion, the real winning move isn't just sitting on the coastlines. It's about building serious business coalitions with the wealthy parts of Germany, Italy, Austria, and the Czech Republic. We need to integrate this prosperous region into a powerhouse economic hub for the continent—which, if you ask me, has massive potential...

Anti-USA sentiment

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