Classic aggressive jerk prototype

I actually brought this up in another PDF, but I figured I’d come here to see what you guys think. Let's get straight to it.
Take a scenario where some neo-Nazi or just some aggressive jerk who can't keep his hands to himself gets sentenced. Instead of jail, send him off to some impoverished area in India to do humanitarian work for at least six months.
What do you think—would that leave a mark on his psyche once he's back stateside?
Would he actually change? Hands-on experience usually hits harder than sitting through some lecture on civic duty in a government office.
I bet there's something similar going on over in Germany...

Look, if he actually had a choice between a prison cell or some other kind of high-impact program—maybe something that actually hits home—it might actually work. I mean, sure, there are certain people you can reach, but then there are those absolute cases that honestly just need to be locked up for good... at this point. The whole thing is that he needs to make the call himself, because forcing someone to serve isn't really "serving" anything at all.
From my own experience, I’ll tell you this: service can definitely open your eyes to a wider world, but if you want to truly wrap your head around why violence happens, you've gotta do some serious soul-searching first.

The logic is simple enough;
-if you’re an Englishman who can't stand Pakistanis, you head straight to Washington, D.C. to serve out your time in the slums.
-if you’re some radical from the Midwest, you end up in New York City working at an Islamic soup kitchen.

I honestly think it all comes down to how warped that kind of mind actually is. That example you brought up regarding the neo-Nazi feels like a bit of a lost cause to me. It seems to me that if you forced someone like that to serve the very people they despise, it would probably just double down on their radical beliefs.
They’d end up feeling even more justified in their views because they're being "humiliated" by people they consider beneath them, which would only fuel their resentment and give them a massive reason to seek revenge.
🤷 I really don't know what kind of punishment would actually be appropriate for cases like that.

Working in a soup kitchen or doing community service—like the stuff you mentioned—might actually work for people where aggression and intolerance haven't reached a breaking point yet. You know, maybe when those tendencies are just starting to surface through minor outbursts or first-time offenses. But the real catch is that we have to notice it, diagnose it, and step in to help before it gets too far gone.

I’ve got my doubts that sending hardcore neo-Nazis or anyone in that vein to work in some slum in India would actually "cure" them. These people look down on everyone else from their high horses, and being stuck in an environment like that would probably just reinforce their delusions—they’d see it as nothing more than "impoverished trash draining resources without contributing anything useful," and they'll just double down on their hateful rhetoric.

On the flip side, if you actually took a few months to sit them down and explain the systemic reasons why those conditions exist in the first place, you might actually see some progress with a larger group of them.

Steven Allen9 said:I actually brought this up in another PDF, but I figured I’d come here to see what you guys think. Let's get straight to it.
Take a scenario where some neo-Nazi or just some aggressive jerk who can't keep his hands to himself gets sentenced. Instead of jail, send him off to some impoverished area in India to do humanitarian work for at least six months.
What do you think—would that leave a mark on his psyche once he's back stateside?
Would he actually change? Hands-on experience usually hits harder than sitting through some lecture on civic duty in a government office.
I bet there's something similar going on over in Germany...

I can't speak for Germany, but in Singapore, if you get caught littering, you have to clean up that exact same street yourself, on top of paying a hefty fine. Similarly, for various types of violent behavior or vandalism, they have physical punishments ranging from mild to severe (a specific number of strikes with a baton), along with penalties for all other criminal acts. And wouldn't you know it—their crime rate is among the lowest in the world, despite that city-state being a total melting pot of different nations and religions that have been clashing for centuries... Not to mention their incredibly high standard of living...

casualharbor9 said:I can't speak for Germany, but in Singapore, if you get caught littering, you have to clean up that exact same street yourself, on top of paying a hefty fine. Similarly, for various types of violent behavior or vandalism, they have physical punishments ranging from mild to severe (a specific number of strikes with a baton), along with penalties for all other criminal acts. And wouldn't you know it—their crime rate is among the lowest in the world, despite that city-state being a total melting pot of different nations and religions that have been clashing for centuries... Not to mention their incredibly high standard of living...

Elvis Presley, it seems justice really does come from above after all.😁

casualharbor9 said:I can't speak for Germany, but in Singapore, if you get caught littering, you have to clean up that exact same street yourself, on top of paying a hefty fine. Similarly, for various types of violent behavior or vandalism, they have physical punishments ranging from mild to severe (a specific number of strikes with a baton), along with penalties for all other criminal acts. And wouldn't you know it—their crime rate is among the lowest in the world, despite that city-state being a total melting pot of different nations and religions that have been clashing for centuries... Not to mention their incredibly high standard of living...

Well, it’s the same story in the USA.
I lived there for six years, and let me tell you—if someone reports you for tossing some trash or a scrap of paper on the ground, God help you. Once that report hits, especially if you happen to be on the wealthier side, you aren't just getting slapped with a fine; you might end up having to spend fifteen days picking up everyone else's garbage—I mean, cleaning up leaves in the most elite neighborhoods where everyone can watch you. Talk about a harsh punishment.

Comparing neo-Nazism to littering feels like a massive stretch to me. As far as I can tell, tossing trash on the sidewalk isn't some grand ideology; you don't find people out there genuinely convinced that littering is the only moral way to live.
Punishing neo-Nazis using that kind of logic would just drive a wedge between the true believers and the outliers—at least from their twisted perspective. If seeing the actual victims makes you hesitate or feel a pang of guilt, then clearly you haven't fully bought into the doctrine yet.
Besides, deporting people to India—which is thousands of miles away and shares zero cultural or social DNA with the country the offender actually comes from—is a total non-starter. Even if someone manages to feel a shred of empathy for people in India, it’s definitely not going to translate into sympathy for the marginalized groups right here in our own backyard.

Alright, let’s break this down a bit more so we actually see what’s happening here;
-you've got this young neo-Nazi kid who couldn't care less about anything outside his own backyard, hopping on a plane and flying halfway across the globe.
The climate hits him like a physical slap in the face first. Then he lands and gets hit by a massive culture shock, staring at people he’s been taught to despise, only to realize he’s the one cleaning up after them, feeding them, and tending to their wounds. Suddenly, all that built-up hate starts reaching a boiling point.
Once enough time passes, he actually becomes someone because he realizes these people genuinely need him.
He finds his purpose because, before all this, he was absolutely nobody.

Laughter is the only response here. Max Kolb. A literal saint. In the middle of a camp, facing a firing squad, he steps up and says: "Take my life instead of this young man's. My name is Max, and I am a Catholic priest!" And what does the SS commander do? He just shrugs, takes him, and coldly executes him right there in place of the kid. Honestly, if the political climate had been different back then, who knows how that would have played out...
Maybe I’d be tearing up.

Steven Allen9 said:Alright, let’s break this down a bit more so we actually see what’s happening here;
-you've got this young neo-Nazi kid who couldn't care less about anything outside his own backyard, hopping on a plane and flying halfway across the globe.
The climate hits him like a physical slap in the face first. Then he lands and gets hit by a massive culture shock, staring at people he’s been taught to despise, only to realize he’s the one cleaning up after them, feeding them, and tending to their wounds. Suddenly, all that built-up hate starts reaching a boiling point.
Once enough time passes, he actually becomes someone because he realizes these people genuinely need him.
He finds his purpose because, before all this, he was absolutely nobody.

... that sounds more like a Hollywood blockbuster starring Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie... in reality, people need much stronger external incentives to change their behavior, let alone their entire worldview...

Hahahaha! Max Kolb. A Catholic saint. In a camp, during an execution, he goes: "Take my life instead of this young man, my name is Max and I am a Catholic priest!" And what does the SS commander do? He says "okay," takes him, and coldly shoots him dead instead of the youth. Well, if the weather had been different, who knows what might have happened...
Maybe a tear would have rolled down his cheek.

... personally, I'd say they just kept up with the executions according to the daily schedule...

Steven Allen9 said:Alright, let’s break this down a bit more so we actually see what’s happening here;
-you've got this young neo-Nazi kid who couldn't care less about anything outside his own backyard, hopping on a plane and flying halfway across the globe.
The climate hits him like a physical slap in the face first. Then he lands and gets hit by a massive culture shock, staring at people he’s been taught to despise, only to realize he’s the one cleaning up after them, feeding them, and tending to their wounds. Suddenly, all that built-up hate starts reaching a boiling point.
Once enough time passes, he actually becomes someone because he realizes these people genuinely need him.
He finds his purpose because, before all this, he was absolutely nobody.

Personally, I think he might actually turn out even worse, because while he tries to be "someone," those "nobodies" are constantly trying to drag him down to being "nothing." 😁

Why specify a young neo-fascist? Are you suggesting there's still hope for him just because—well, because he's young?
Do you honestly think a guy like that didn't already know that different cultures and customs exist? It’s precisely because he knows about them that he hates them in the first place.
Sure, he’d experience shock, but it wouldn't be the good kind.

Maybe that kind of approach works on some people, but to me, those feel like rare exceptions. Most people are just mean-spirited and malicious... and it isn't even coming from a place of ignorance or a lack of understanding.

rustydrifter10 said:Personally, I think he might actually turn out even worse, because while he tries to be "someone," those "nobodies" are constantly trying to drag him down to being "nothing." 😁

Why specify a young neo-fascist? Are you suggesting there's still hope for him just because—well, because he's young?
Do you honestly think a guy like that didn't already know that different cultures and customs exist? It’s precisely because he knows about them that he hates them in the first place.
Sure, he’d experience shock, but it wouldn't be the good kind.

Maybe that kind of approach works on some people, but to me, those feel like rare exceptions. Most people are just mean-spirited and malicious... and it isn't even coming from a place of ignorance or a lack of understanding.

Obviously he understands certain things, but his hatred is fueled by three main things: his social situation, deep-seated prejudices, and a lack of parental love.
A neo-Nazi doesn't need to become a model citizen after, say, coming back from volunteering in India. When he's over there, his pride in being part of one specific nation doesn't mean a damn thing. He's just a person helping another person. That’s where the story starts. If he actually dives into humanity and realizes that foreigners coming to live in his country aren't doing it because it's "perfect," but because they're just trying to survive, everything changes.
As naive as it sounds theoretically, I think there's a solution to this whole mess.

Steven Allen9 said:Obviously he understands certain things, but his hatred is fueled by three main things: his social situation, deep-seated prejudices, and a lack of parental love.
A neo-Nazi doesn't need to become a model citizen after, say, coming back from volunteering in India. When he's over there, his pride in being part of one specific nation doesn't mean a damn thing. He's just a person helping another person. That’s where the story starts. If he actually dives into humanity and realizes that foreigners coming to live in his country aren't doing it because it's "perfect," but because they're just trying to survive, everything changes.
As naive as it sounds theoretically, I think there's a solution to this whole mess.

Personally, I think it would be much more effective to take a guy like that and force him to live alongside the very people he hates, all while being watched by the groups he actually looks up to. For instance, using the example we discussed, imagine if Germans, white Americans, or Catholics were supervising him while he was forced to coexist peacefully with those he considers "lesser."
And then, maybe the people he actually identifies with wouldn't treat him any differently just because he happens to be, I don't know... short, or Black, or because his dad was originally from somewhere else... 😁

I honestly don't know if minds that set in their ways can ever change enough to actually embrace tolerance...

Nicole Miller5 said:Laughter is the only response here. Max Kolb. A literal saint. In the middle of a camp, facing a firing squad, he steps up and says: "Take my life instead of this young man's. My name is Max, and I am a Catholic priest!" And what does the SS commander do? He just shrugs, takes him, and coldly executes him right there in place of the kid. Honestly, if the political climate had been different back then, who knows how that would have played out...
Maybe I’d be tearing up.

They didn't just shoot him cold-bloodedly; he was left to starve to death for a month, which is honestly way more brutal.

rustydrifter10 said:Personally, I think it would be much more effective to take a guy like that and force him to live alongside the very people he hates, all while being watched by the groups he actually looks up to. For instance, using the example we discussed, imagine if Germans, white Americans, or Catholics were supervising him while he was forced to coexist peacefully with those he considers "lesser."
And then, maybe the people he actually identifies with wouldn't treat him any differently just because he happens to be, I don't know... short, or Black, or because his dad was originally from somewhere else... 😁

I honestly don't know if minds that set in their ways can ever change enough to actually embrace tolerance...

By feeling the raw, naked misery of being human...
Look, when you're out there helping someone who's genuinely sick and relying entirely on you, something inside you has to shift. It forces you to drop the aggressive delusions they've been nursing and face the shame of their own stupidity.
What's the point of some expensive facility with four walls if the person inside comes out worse than when they went in?
Charity shouldn't be this soft, superficial thing...
It needs to be visceral. Human.

Steven Allen9 said:By feeling the raw, naked misery of being human...
Look, when you're out there helping someone who's genuinely sick and relying entirely on you, something inside you has to shift. It forces you to drop the aggressive delusions they've been nursing and face the shame of their own stupidity.
What's the point of some expensive facility with four walls if the person inside comes out worse than when they went in?
Charity shouldn't be this soft, superficial thing...
It needs to be visceral. Human.

Are you talking about humility?
Yeah, maybe that could make a difference, but it's not a one-size-fits-all solution...
People like that aren't going to care about the suffering of strangers who don't mean anything to them. But let's face it, everyone has someone they want to protect, in one way or another. No man is an island.🙂

rustydrifter10 said:Are you talking about humility?
Yeah, maybe that could make a difference, but it's not a one-size-fits-all solution...
People like that aren't going to care about the suffering of strangers who don't mean anything to them. But let's face it, everyone has someone they want to protect, in one way or another. No man is an island.🙂

Yeah... something along those lines.
Just enough to make them wake up or at least start having an honest conversation with themselves and realize they messed up.
Sending them to a deserted island or some Small town in Ohio is just for the lost causes.

Steven Allen9 said:Yeah... something along those lines.
Just enough to make them wake up or at least start having an honest conversation with themselves and realize they messed up.
Sending them to a deserted island or some Small town in Ohio is just for the lost causes.

It’s honestly so hard to tell when someone has truly become a lost cause.
Just because someone hasn't turned into a complete monster yet doesn't mean there's still hope for rehabilitation. You see it all the time—people come out of rehab or finish their prison sentences and just double down on even stupider behavior. To be fair, I'm not surprised by how things play out here in the States, mostly because I wonder what we're actually doing with people like that in the first place.
I don't want to get too deep into the weeds regarding juvenile detention or reformatories since I don't have any firsthand info, but from everything I've heard, it feels like those places are just holding pens where you wait for time to pass. 🤷
What’s the actual ratio of psychologists to inmates? How are they even supposed to provide real treatment?