Healthy body, healthy mind

So, I was just sitting here thinking—it occurred to me that while we’ve been diving deep into all these spiritual topics 😁 we haven't really touched upon how we maintain our earthly temples. You know, they always say "a healthy mind resides in a healthy body"—so, it makes me wonder: how often are we actually polishing the floors of our own little sanctuaries? Are our windows covered in cobwebs and our walls crumbling from neglect?

Here is a question to kick off a discussion: can someone who neglects their physical self truly progress spiritually at the same rate as someone who takes care of themselves (assuming both have the actual capacity to look after their health)? Is the body even relevant to our spiritual journey, or do you think whoever coined that old cliché was just completely out of it...

Gaudrath said:Does our physical body even matter when it comes to spirituality, or do you think whoever came up with that old cliché was just high on something...

It matters, I suppose, but in a very specific sense, since we really ought to maintain this temple so the spirit can actually "exist and function" without constant interruptions.
As long as we're walking this earth, the body is going to have its own set of demands that need meeting, and while those needs are realistically pretty minimal, we always find ourselves eating more, running more, or constantly trying to fix something about how we look or feel.
We’re never truly satisfied, are we? 😬
Adopting some sort of extreme asceticism on a spiritual journey—you know, just a crust of bread and some water, barely enough to stay alive while you sit there meditating or praying—is certainly an option, and whether that's actually feasible in modern America is another question entirely, but I'm just not convinced it's strictly necessary for spiritual growth in today's world.
I think the logic behind the saying is that there are people who aren't exactly at their peak physically, and they need to "service" their bodies as best they can given their circumstances, which shouldn't hinder their spiritual progress in any way whatsoever.

Exactly. I honestly think that old proverb works better as a mindset than a literal recipe... so, having that core attitude—taking care of our physical selves within our own means, as you put it—is what actually matters. It’s far more vital than the specific mechanics of how or where we do it. After all, if someone truly doesn't care about their body... can they really claim to care about their spirit? I'm not just making a sweeping declaration here, but I firmly believe the mind and body are intertwined on so many levels. Can a person who neglects their physical well-being even begin to grasp that deep connection?

Ascetics try to suppress the body to such an extreme degree that nothing remains but the mind. But I was really struck by that one part in "Little Caesars" where Microsoft—who was an ascetic himself back then—realizes that lesson from a wandering musician... "if you tighten the string too much, it will snap. If you let it lax, it will not play." 🙂

Gaudrath said:"if you tighten the string too much, it will snap. If you let it lax, it will not play." 🙂

That’s precisely it, really. You just have to let the music happen and then sit back and actually listen. 🙂

I’ve got nothing on Conan. I’m more like Red Sonja, just with a few masculine adjectives thrown in 😁 😍
Running hills, swimming constantly... eating very little. It's all just internal energy.
I've been vibing with those Wire lyrics for a long time, even before I got into yoga

and remember
making the body such
that it was nothing
but enough for ahead

I mean... what I'm trying to say is we waste way too much energy dealing with physical tension. Life just feels better, easier, when your body isn't fighting itself. When you're clean on the inside... 😉 😍

jimmy jazz said:Well, what I’m trying to get at is this... we waste way too much life force dealing with physical tension. Everything feels significantly more beautiful and effortless when your body is firm and "clean." And by clean, I mean healthy from the inside out. 😉 😍

Man, you aren't kidding. Honestly, after years of being totally sedentary, I’ve finally started remembering what it actually feels like to be capable—you know, like when you can crush a full loop around Central Park 3.7 miles without breaking a sweat... or when you can fly up four flights of stairs without feeling like your lungs are going to collapse... when your body feels like a coiled spring, everything just feels light and your step is bouncy. Yeah. I really let that slip away, and it wasn't until just now that I realized how much I truly missed it.

I hit the bench press two to three times a week now... and honestly, this recent streak of getting my permits sorted has actually caused me to cut back on the beer consumption. Consequently, I've seen a drastic reduction in what one might call a "beer belly."

Let’s be real: you can't achieve true spirituality without a healthy body. It’s frankly depressing—and frankly hilarious—to attempt any kind of demon summoning when you’re either shaped like a barrel or looking like a walking skeleton. It’s nothing short of a comedy routine.

shadowgardener12 said:You're right. After years of being sidelined, I’m finally remembering what it feels like to crush a loop around Central Park (3.7 miles)... to sprint up four flights of stairs without losing my breath... when the body actually feels like a coiled spring. Everything light. Bouncy. Yeah. I forgot about that. Just realizing now how much I missed it.

So that's why you started this thread! 😁

Try trail running in the woods. It's tougher! (Like out on the Appalachian Trail! 😉)

Anyway, I think looking after yourself requires a healthy body. Around 25, people usually start burning through their peak energy reserves. After that, either your levels drop, or they've already been depleted from overdoing it earlier 😁, so people start making changes—if they've learned anything. If not, they just keep pushing until they realize something's wrong and try to chase ghosts to get some relief 😁 😍 or they just ignore self-care entirely, going all-in on "spirituality" while letting their physical health fall apart due to neglect.

I mean, honestly... given my age, I’d say I look pretty decent. I’m certainly not sick, and I’m definitely not some demon out of a horror movie 😁

So, clearly... something just doesn't add up here 😈

Ryan Wilson2 said:Honestly... at my age, I look pretty decent—I’m certainly not sick, and I definitely don't look like some demon from a horror movie.😁

So... something just doesn't add up here.😈

Exactly. It's obvious you're calling upon Angels, yet here you are spinning tall tales for us.😉

But it's true—you can't exactly summon demons if you aren't in peak physical condition. That's why I haven't even thought about summoning anything for a long, long time.😉

Jimmy, I’ll be sprinting up Mount Rainier once I can finally manage to run a full loop around Central Park on flat ground again. I'm telling you, I've started to remember what it feels like... though I wouldn't say I'm quite there yet. I probably need another month or two of solid training before I'm back to my old self. I haven't done any real exercise in five years. But thank God I had the sense to realize that a strong spirit is best kept in a strong body at 25, rather than waking up one day at 35 and realizing I've turned into a "Fat Bastard"...

I guess I got lucky that I haven't worn myself out too much over the years.😛

Look, here is the thing... when you are performing a classic, driving pentagram ritual, you are required to summon four Angels. Since I have been practicing this for years, I have developed a very vivid way of visualizing them. To ensure I am not just dealing with some vague, fluffy nonsense, I prefer to incorporate the Water element by visualizing everything from a dead-calm ocean to a massive tsunami 😉

But, staying on the actual subject of the thread, one’s physical appearance can actually reveal their spiritual practice. It is a simple fact: what happens on the inside eventually manifests on the outside.

The mind and the body are constantly feeding into one another. There’s no real mystery there—it’s basic biology. But when people say "a healthy mind lives in a healthy body," don't take it quite so literally. 😉 It's actually a well-documented fact that many killers and violent offenders possess incredibly fit, well-built physiques.

Ryan Wilson2:

Anyway, getting back to the point, someone's physical appearance can actually reveal their spiritual practices. It’s just a fact: what's happening on the inside eventually shows up on the outside.

And vice versa—the external can influence the internal, too.

Look... when you're performing a classic pentagram ritual, you have to summon four Angel figures. Since I've been doing this for years, I've gotten really good at visualizing them. To keep things from feeling too airy-fairy, I’ll mix in the Water element by visualizing everything from a calm ocean to a massive tsunami.

😁 I also like to bring in some freshwater elements, and honestly, my Angel visions are pretty stunning, if you know what I mean. 😍 😍

I honestly live by this one... a healthy body fueled by nothing but wild ambitions

Ryan Wilson2 said:Look, here's the thing... when you're performing a classic, driving pentagram ritual, you have to summon four Angels. Since I've been doing this for years now, I've gotten really good at visualizing them vividly. But—to make sure things don't just feel "fluffy" or superficial—I’ll often blend in the Water element by picturing everything from a dead-calm ocean to a massive tsunami. 😉

I remember back about six years ago when I first started dabbling in Hermeticism—I got all the way to the invocation stage with the pentagrams and the Angels... but honestly, I couldn't stop myself from smirking and giggling while trying to summon them. It was impossible to take it seriously, so I eventually just threw in the towel. 😁

Anyway, staying on the main topic here—physical appearance can actually reveal someone's spiritual practice. It’s a simple fact: what happens on the inside eventually reflects on the outside. [/B]

Exactly, and it works the other way too, just like Oleander mentioned. Though, if you ask me, I think it’s less about raw physical features and more about that certain "vibe" or aura a person carries—that overall impression they leave on you, rather than just pure aesthetics.

hollowviper72 said:...or maybe you think whoever came up with that old saying back in the day was just high on something...

Man, what an ancient, useless platitude...
I bet his slaves were doing push-ups instead of working while he sat there. 😁

I don't really see how having a gut has anything to do with your state of mind...

If an individual lacks the basic capacity to provide for themselves, they are fundamentally unqualified to care for anyone else—a delusion that seems to be a favorite pastime among most clergy members.

This is especially true when they fail to meet even the most rudimentary, material standards of self-sufficiency.

Ryan Wilson2 said:If someone can't even manage to take care of their own life, there's zero chance they're actually equipped to look after anyone else—but hey, that’s exactly the kind of thing most spiritual gurus love to preach about.

And honestly, it's even more glaring when they can't even handle the absolute basics on a material level.

plus, just because someone has the capacity to do something doesn't mean they're actually gonna step up and do it...

I’m starting to think the two aren't actually linked. You have to train the spirit just as much—if not more—than the body, and through an entirely different process. In fact, if there is a connection, it seems inversely proportional to the time you invest. Think about it... pouring all your energy and willpower into intense training or sports leaves almost zero "resources" left for spiritual growth. How many times after a grueling workout at the gym have I done nothing but crave a shower and my bed? The more physically active I am, the more mentally lazy I become. I’m always down for a game of pickup basketball or a long run, but I find myself increasingly unwilling to pick up a book or engage in any actual mental effort. And it is only through mental exertion and discipline that we can develop the spirit. The spirit isn't about staring at the grass grow or sighing over how hard bees work... it's about the rigorous reflection of oneself and others.
Does what I'm saying make sense to anyone else? It goes against the grain of conventional wisdom, but to me, it holds water.

We can only cultivate the spirit through mental exertion and deliberate practice. After all, the spirit isn't found by sitting around watching grass grow or sighing at how busy the bees are being—it comes from the deep reflection of oneself and the people around us.

Personally, I’d argue that *awareness* is the real engine behind developing the spirit. Physical effort forces us into contact with the actual world; it makes us more mindful of who we really are and anchors us—sort of puts us "right where we belong"—which, in my view, does much more for the spirit than constantly having your head stuck in the clouds. Don't get me wrong, dreaming big is great, but you shouldn't do it so much that you forget your feet are still firmly planted on the ground. Team sports aren't really built for this—you end up too focused on the game itself—but solo sports, those moments where it's just you against yourself, are absolutely perfect for that kind of grounding.

A spiritual person primarily seeks out tranquility and moderation. Only a calm being can truly perceive the ultimate essence of all things—that final destination toward which all spiritual seekers eventually drift. It’s the exact same principle when it comes to the mind and the body. A person who manages to strike that balance between thought and physicality is someone truly developing themselves—really pushing their own spirit to its full potential.