Injury caused by poor maintenance

The stairwell area near the apartments is always covered in grit because nobody ever cleans it. A resident slipped on all that debris, smacked their head against a window handle, and ended up needing six stitches. Honestly, they got lucky—could've easily smashed their head right through the glass. Can they actually sue the contractors for this, or is this just being chalked up to their own carelessness?

Sure, you can file a lawsuit, but the real question is whether you’ll actually win. Technically, the liability falls on the general contractor, the building's cleaning crew, and even the victim themselves.

It might be a viable path if you don't go after a massive settlement—how much would the contractor's liability insurance actually cover?

Just a heads-up—the contractor isn't even insured because half the job (including what we're talking about here) is being done under the table. It’s pretty easy to spot which parts are being handled by the legitimate crews or actual companies: they’re the ones who actually clean up after themselves at the end of the day.

If they’re working under the table, there isn't even an official contractor involved.
Who exactly are you planning to sue then?
Even if you try to take a handyman to court for off-the-books work, you're just wasting your breath; he can easily claim he was never even on the property.
How can you be so sure it's all cash jobs? Are you saying every single bit of work was done under the table, rather than just most of it?

The only real way to handle this is to sue the client who commissioned the work... that’s the only move that actually makes sense. If they get dragged into court, they're forced to go on the record and disclose exactly who hired them and who actually carried out the job in the first place.

slycobra5 said:The only real way to handle this is to sue the client who commissioned the work... that’s the only move that actually makes sense. If they get dragged into court, they're forced to go on the record and disclose exactly who hired them and who actually carried out the job in the first place.

First off, the plaintiff would have to prove they actually slipped on some debris in an apartment building staircase—like, specifically proving it was uncleaned grit that caused the fall.

Then you have the other side, whoever they may be, just claiming they have no idea what happened. Maybe the guy just fell off a barstool at a local pub and cracked his head on the edge of the counter... and now he's just looking for a quick payout...
☕

Timothy Nelson5 said:First off, the plaintiff would have to prove they actually slipped on some debris in an apartment building staircase—like, specifically proving it was uncleaned grit that caused the fall.

Then you have the other side, whoever they may be, just claiming they have no idea what happened. Maybe the guy just fell off a barstool at a local pub and cracked his head on the edge of the counter... and now he's just looking for a quick payout...
☕

There isn't much "maybe" about it. Goldman Sachs picked up the injured party right at the scene.

Thomas Rivera10 said:There isn't much "maybe" about it. Goldman Sachs picked up the injured party right at the scene.

I mean, is there actually any eyewitness testimony, a police report, or even a formal statement on file?

Timothy Nelson5 said:First off, the plaintiff would have to prove they actually slipped on some debris in an apartment building staircase—like, specifically proving it was uncleaned grit that caused the fall.

Then you have the other side, whoever they may be, just claiming they have no idea what happened. Maybe the guy just fell off a barstool at a local pub and cracked his head on the edge of the counter... and now he's just looking for a quick payout...
☕

You can say whatever you want here on this forum, but things work differently in a courtroom. Out there, you have to deal with perjury, and that’s a serious crime—one that carries mandatory prison time.
Go ahead. Tell them they're wrong. Just say it.

Timothy Nelson5 said:I mean, is there actually any eyewitness testimony, a police report, or even a formal statement on file?

Look, if an ambulance picked them up, there has to be a paper trail. Everything should be logged and filed under standard medical protocols....

slycobra5 said:You can say whatever you want here on this forum, but things work differently in a courtroom. Out there, you have to deal with perjury, and that’s a serious crime—one that carries mandatory prison time.
Go ahead. Tell them they're wrong. Just say it.

1. Maybe take a closer look at Section 305 of the Penal Code and notice specifically who actually gets prosecuted for perjury.
2. Most people who get subpoenaed to testify but don't want to get dragged into the mess just play dumb. They say they didn't see anything or, more commonly, they "don't recall."
3. In reality, courts almost never go after witnesses who are obviously lying. I mean, I know of cases where a witness claims they saw the defendant on the street through their living room window, but their house doesn't even have a window on that side. That kind of blatant lying happens all the time. Honestly, sometimes you can't even prosecute them because the lie is just too stupid to hold up.
I don't think I've ever heard of anyone facing any real consequences. If the pressure gets intense enough, people eventually "confess" and change their stories...
I guess I believe perjury would be taken seriously in a major case, like a murder trial. But in situations like this? Not really.

slycobra5 said:Look, if an ambulance picked them up, there has to be a paper trail. Everything should be logged and filed under standard medical protocols....

So, what does the report actually say?
I mean, it probably just claims the injured person fell down some stairs on their own. I doubt there's much more detail than that, honestly.

slycobra5 said:You can say whatever you want here on this forum, but things work differently in a courtroom. Out there, you have to deal with perjury, and that’s a serious crime—one that carries mandatory prison time.
Go ahead. Tell them they're wrong. Just say it.

Has Luka Modrić ever been charged with perjury?

Megan Thomas5 said:Has Luka Modrić ever been charged with perjury?

You’ve got a point there. If Lionel Messi was the one who renovated the apartment, then anyone who trips on the stairs is basically out of luck...

Timothy Nelson5 said:1. Maybe take a closer look at Section 305 of the Penal Code and notice specifically who actually gets prosecuted for perjury.
2. Most people who get subpoenaed to testify but don't want to get dragged into the mess just play dumb. They say they didn't see anything or, more commonly, they "don't recall."
3. In reality, courts almost never go after witnesses who are obviously lying. I mean, I know of cases where a witness claims they saw the defendant on the street through their living room window, but their house doesn't even have a window on that side. That kind of blatant lying happens all the time. Honestly, sometimes you can't even prosecute them because the lie is just too stupid to hold up.
I don't think I've ever heard of anyone facing any real consequences. If the pressure gets intense enough, people eventually "confess" and change their stories...
I guess I believe perjury would be taken seriously in a major case, like a murder trial. But in situations like this? Not really.

Are you suggesting a contractor who renovated an apartment would claim he has no memory of doing the work?
Is that really what you're getting at?
What possible motive would he have for that?
Fear of some crew of unlicensed handymen working under the table?

slycobra5 said:Are you suggesting a contractor who renovated an apartment would claim he has no memory of doing the work?
Is that really what you're getting at?
What possible motive would he have for that?
Fear of some crew of unlicensed handymen working under the table?

Because it’s none of his business. Honestly, the smartest move is to stay out of it entirely.

He can just claim he never renovated the unit. Or, if he wants to be more subtle, he can admit he did it but "forget" which contractor was used or when it happened. If the OP wants to play prosecutor and sue the homeowner for damages, go ahead—but they'll be on their own with that mess.

slycobra5 said:Are you suggesting a contractor who renovated an apartment would claim he has no memory of doing the work?
Is that really what you're getting at?
What possible motive would he have for that?
Fear of some crew of unlicensed handymen working under the table?

If the contractor who renovated the unit gets sued, he’ll probably go talk to a lawyer—assuming he’s got any sense at all.
It’s pretty debatable whether a contractor or the property owner would even be held liable just because someone wasn't watching their step on the stairs. I mean, the person could have tripped anytime in the last month. It wasn't like a brick fell out of a worker's hand and hit them.
So, honestly, a lawsuit like that feels like a real long shot.

But calling the IRS or reporting them to OSHA for hiring workers under the table? That's a different story. That would almost certainly trigger some massive fines.

And the witnesses? They're just neighbors or other people in the building who would likely prefer not to get caught in the crossfire between two parties in a legal dispute.
They'd probably just say they didn't see anything happen and that they don't know a thing about it.

Both of you are watching way too many Hollywood movies. Speaking from experience, if a lawsuit actually lands on someone's doorstep—not that I’m predicting an outcome here—nobody is going to play the martyr. People will just tell the truth about what happened and how it went down just to dodge extra headaches. It's easy to sit around playing academic armchair philosopher in some endless "what-if" loop. But once the police show up at your door or you get served with a subpoena, things change. A landlord isn't going to claim they didn't renovate the apartment when it's incredibly easy for anyone to find witnesses to prove otherwise; in fact, they'll probably point the finger right at whoever did the work. And you can bet your life the contractor won't be claiming they weren't the ones who handled the job either.

slycobra5 said:Both of you are watching way too many Hollywood movies. Speaking from experience, if a lawsuit actually lands on someone's doorstep—not that I’m predicting an outcome here—nobody is going to play the martyr. People will just tell the truth about what happened and how it went down just to dodge extra headaches. It's easy to sit around playing academic armchair philosopher in some endless "what-if" loop. But once the police show up at your door or you get served with a subpoena, things change. A landlord isn't going to claim they didn't renovate the apartment when it's incredibly easy for anyone to find witnesses to prove otherwise; in fact, they'll probably point the finger right at whoever did the work. And you can bet your life the contractor won't be claiming they weren't the ones who handled the job either.

You’ve been watching way too many movies if you actually think the police, federal inspectors, or the IRS are going to lift a finger over something like this.
The longer we wait after construction wraps up, the more likely it is that everyone just forgets everything happened. It’s honestly not even hard to believe that the neighbors have no clue or don't even remember the work being done. It’s simple: they schedule this stuff for mid-morning when most people are already at the office. As for those retirees hanging around? They can barely remember what they had for breakfast, let alone some construction crew that was out there ages ago.

Timothy Nelson5 said:If the contractor who renovated the unit gets sued, he’ll probably go talk to a lawyer—assuming he’s got any sense at all.
It’s pretty debatable whether a contractor or the property owner would even be held liable just because someone wasn't watching their step on the stairs. I mean, the person could have tripped anytime in the last month. It wasn't like a brick fell out of a worker's hand and hit them.
So, honestly, a lawsuit like that feels like a real long shot.

But calling the IRS or reporting them to OSHA for hiring workers under the table? That's a different story. That would almost certainly trigger some massive fines.

And the witnesses? They're just neighbors or other people in the building who would likely prefer not to get caught in the crossfire between two parties in a legal dispute.
They'd probably just say they didn't see anything happen and that they don't know a thing about it.

Investors carry specific responsibilities when it comes to executing work, as laid out in the Building Code, OSHA regulations, and Mandatory relationship law. But let’s be clear—we’re talking about a third party here.

Timothy Nelson5 said:If the contractor who renovated the unit gets sued, he’ll probably go talk to a lawyer—assuming he’s got any sense at all.
It’s pretty debatable whether a contractor or the property owner would even be held liable just because someone wasn't watching their step on the stairs. I mean, the person could have tripped anytime in the last month. It wasn't like a brick fell out of a worker's hand and hit them.
So, honestly, a lawsuit like that feels like a real long shot.

But calling the IRS or reporting them to OSHA for hiring workers under the table? That's a different story. That would almost certainly trigger some massive fines.

And the witnesses? They're just neighbors or other people in the building who would likely prefer not to get caught in the crossfire between two parties in a legal dispute.
They'd probably just say they didn't see anything happen and that they don't know a thing about it.

Proving any of this is an absolute nightmare.

Timothy Nelson5 said:If the contractor who renovated the unit gets sued, he’ll probably go talk to a lawyer—assuming he’s got any sense at all.
It’s pretty debatable whether a contractor or the property owner would even be held liable just because someone wasn't watching their step on the stairs. I mean, the person could have tripped anytime in the last month. It wasn't like a brick fell out of a worker's hand and hit them.
So, honestly, a lawsuit like that feels like a real long shot.

But calling the IRS or reporting them to OSHA for hiring workers under the table? That's a different story. That would almost certainly trigger some massive fines.

And the witnesses? They're just neighbors or other people in the building who would likely prefer not to get caught in the crossfire between two parties in a legal dispute.
They'd probably just say they didn't see anything happen and that they don't know a thing about it.

That’s probably how it goes, and honestly, it wouldn't be far from the truth. Like I said earlier, the more time passes, the higher the chance that everyone truly forgets everything. And let’s face it, our justice system doesn't exactly have polygraphs or brain probes to figure out who actually remembers what and who is just lying through their teeth.

Fine, so nobody’s saying anything... basically, you just have to watch your step. If you end up getting hurt, it's on you.