Jesus on healing psychological issues...

Luke 11:24 "When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it heads for arid places seeking rest. When it cannot find it, it says, `I will return to the house I left.`
Luke 11:25 When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and perfectly put in order.
Luke 11:26 Then it goes out and takes with it seven other spirits even more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.

I guess when someone deals with stuff like aggression, paranoia, depression, or those darker impulses, and they happen to stumble upon—maybe by chance or maybe through 1. connecting with people who actually help by having honest conversations and pointing out the issues, or 2. just working through it themselves using books, movies, or even just observing nature and animals—they finally figure out what’s wrong with their behavior and manage to suppress those old patterns. But once they do that, this void starts to appear where those behaviors used to be. Those things were basically the ego's defense mechanisms, the ways they "navigated" life.

So, if those outbursts or depressive episodes were triggered by certain specific things, and now the person doesn't react that way anymore because they've realized it was toxic—well, they're stuck in a weird middle ground. They've stopped the bad behavior, but they haven't quite figured out a new, healthy way to actually engage with life and other people yet.

To me, solving these problems isn't really about chasing happiness; it's more about finding a way to be at peace with yourself. That's why I think pills, therapy sessions, or just talking don't really do much if a person has lost their internal compass.

Self-actualization is really about having the guts to live authentically. Being truthful means loving freedom enough to accept yourself, flaws and all. In that sense, everyone carries their own "cross," but Jesus, who trusts in God and has faith, says that His "burden" is light.

Once a person accepts their negative traits—once they stop building these fake versions of themselves and stop fighting for status or trying to compensate for low self-esteem by begging for validation from others—and they just accept their social standing for what it is, that's when peace shows up. You start trusting the future, and that peace gives you the space to actually achieve everything. It all kind of starts in the mind, with your own consciousness...

We really need to look out for our mental hygiene. It feels like some therapists mostly lean toward sedating people—which, honestly, is just a controlled way of drugging them, similar to how people use alcohol, drugs, or binge eating to cope. There are other ways people try to trap themselves just to avoid thinking, too, like becoming obsessed with work or some intense physical activity. It's all just an escape from the possibility of love. Real love means accepting people as they truly are, no matter what. People who are totally consumed by their goals or terrified of losing things (as if those goals hold all the value in the world) don't really have hope. Hope is what gives you the strength to believe things will be okay. Faith—including faith that there is something looking out for us, like a belief in God—helps too. But the biggest thing would be love, which doesn't set conditions for doing good. It's about living well without the constant fear of being "short-changed"... "love and do what you will."

Man, first off, this isn't even a psychology discussion, which I'm pretty sure should be obvious to you by now...

Secondly, all those diagnoses you just rattled off—depression, anxiety, schizophrenia—those aren't some empty voids or some "lifestyle choice" someone made. They are actual CLINICAL ILLNESSES that get treated like anything else. Based on your little theory, it sounds like anyone dealing with this stuff is basically possessed by some demon or devil that needs to be "exorcised" through prayer, fasting, or maybe a week out in the desert or something? WTF?

Why on earth should someone with a psychiatric diagnosis feel ashamed? Why do you self-righteous Christian types feel this desperate need to nail them to a cross of shame? It’s ridiculous. Should a heart patient feel embarrassed about their organ failing, or a diabetic feel guilty because they have to inject insulin every single day???

Honestly, this damn Christian narrow-mindedness and the total denial of blatant medical facts is one of the main reasons why mental health struggles are so heavily stigmatized here in our supposedly "God-fearing" country. And let me tell you something—who are you to judge? You act like these big-shot Christians, but then we see the misogynists, the predators, the adulterers, and the sinners who turn their backs on their calling, their faith, and even Jesus himself... those are the people you should actually be ashamed of. Try lecturing them instead of hanging out on this subforum, because you're far from sinless. Where do you get the nerve to throw stones? 👎

What you’ve written is quite lovely if you approach it from the perspective of a believer, someone who isn't fully informed, or perhaps someone denying the existence of severe mental illnesses classified as clinical diseases.

I will focus solely on the two examples you provided—paranoia and depression.
Both examples are flawed, though looking at your entire post, I conclude you weren't referring to severe clinical conditions (whether due to a lack of familiarity with them or some other reason, it matters little...), but rather "light" versions that might affect the modern individual—things like a pronounced paranoid streak in one's behavior or seasonal depression in people who aren't clinically ill.
Paranoia and depression are not mere behaviors; they are serious illnesses resulting from a combination of genetic, biological, and psychophysical factors, even if they aren't fully understood today.
In the case of depression as a severe mental illness, there is a significant dysfunction in certain neurotransmitters. It is highly unlikely that a patient in an acute phase would be able to simply "realize something is wrong," as you put it. "Wrong"? What does that even mean to you? Or consider your sentence about a person "losing their compass" in relation to these two examples.

Of course, self-actualization is important, and maintaining mental hygiene is vital, but a healthy person will find that much easier to achieve than someone suffering from a severe mental illness caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain.

I will interpret your claim that psychotherapists are essentially "drugging" people in a controlled manner as merely your viewpoint written from a religious stance—one where you project faith and love onto every aspect of life, perhaps unconsciously, while disregarding everything else that has nothing to do with faith.
It is roughly equivalent to me, as an atheist, claiming that the church effectively "drugs" people with Christian propaganda, while ignoring the fact that for a practicing believer, it can be immensely helpful in the attempt to recover from mental illness.

For some, faith provides help; for others, it is a walk or physical activity; some can manage through sheer willpower, but for others, medication is absolutely necessary to restore the chemical balance required to live a quality life. Only then will they find it easier to reach that realization of satisfaction and love you speak of.

Edit: I see > beat me to it, albeit in a slightly coarser version of my own sentiment! Though I am in complete agreement with that version as well. 😉

Jeremy Alvarez5 said:Luke 11:24 "When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it heads for arid places seeking rest. When it cannot find it, it says, `I will return to the house I left.`
Luke 11:25 When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and perfectly put in order.
Luke 11:26 Then it goes out and takes with it seven other spirits even more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.

I guess when someone deals with stuff like aggression, paranoia, depression, or those darker impulses, and they happen to stumble upon—maybe by chance or maybe through 1. connecting with people who actually help by having honest conversations and pointing out the issues, or 2. just working through it themselves using books, movies, or even just observing nature and animals—they finally figure out what’s wrong with their behavior and manage to suppress those old patterns. But once they do that, this void starts to appear where those behaviors used to be. Those things were basically the ego's defense mechanisms, the ways they "navigated" life.

So, if those outbursts or depressive episodes were triggered by certain specific things, and now the person doesn't react that way anymore because they've realized it was toxic—well, they're stuck in a weird middle ground. They've stopped the bad behavior, but they haven't quite figured out a new, healthy way to actually engage with life and other people yet.

To me, solving these problems isn't really about chasing happiness; it's more about finding a way to be at peace with yourself. That's why I think pills, therapy sessions, or just talking don't really do much if a person has lost their internal compass.

Self-actualization is really about having the guts to live authentically. Being truthful means loving freedom enough to accept yourself, flaws and all. In that sense, everyone carries their own "cross," but Jesus, who trusts in God and has faith, says that His "burden" is light.

Once a person accepts their negative traits—once they stop building these fake versions of themselves and stop fighting for status or trying to compensate for low self-esteem by begging for validation from others—and they just accept their social standing for what it is, that's when peace shows up. You start trusting the future, and that peace gives you the space to actually achieve everything. It all kind of starts in the mind, with your own consciousness...

We really need to look out for our mental hygiene. It feels like some therapists mostly lean toward sedating people—which, honestly, is just a controlled way of drugging them, similar to how people use alcohol, drugs, or binge eating to cope. There are other ways people try to trap themselves just to avoid thinking, too, like becoming obsessed with work or some intense physical activity. It's all just an escape from the possibility of love. Real love means accepting people as they truly are, no matter what. People who are totally consumed by their goals or terrified of losing things (as if those goals hold all the value in the world) don't really have hope. Hope is what gives you the strength to believe things will be okay. Faith—including faith that there is something looking out for us, like a belief in God—helps too. But the biggest thing would be love, which doesn't set conditions for doing good. It's about living well without the constant fear of being "short-changed"... "love and do what you will."

Oh, give me a break... my little prayer group can't be serious. ☕

ambermason16 said:Oh, give me a break... my little prayer group can't be serious. ☕

just spamming at this point 😉)))

pavaogc is basically arguing that the way we handle mental health globally is totally broken—like, it's incomplete at best. They're saying we just put a Band-Aid on the symptoms instead of actually digging into the root causes. Or maybe those causes aren't even known yet.

I definitely agree that they took a super broad approach here, and honestly, their definition of the whole topic was pretty messy.

Robert Collins2 said:Man, first off, this isn't even a psychology discussion, which I'm pretty sure should be obvious to you by now...

Secondly, all those diagnoses you just rattled off—depression, anxiety, schizophrenia—those aren't some empty voids or some "lifestyle choice" someone made. They are actual CLINICAL ILLNESSES that get treated like anything else. Based on your little theory, it sounds like anyone dealing with this stuff is basically possessed by some demon or devil that needs to be "exorcised" through prayer, fasting, or maybe a week out in the desert or something? WTF?

Why on earth should someone with a psychiatric diagnosis feel ashamed? Why do you self-righteous Christian types feel this desperate need to nail them to a cross of shame? It’s ridiculous. Should a heart patient feel embarrassed about their organ failing, or a diabetic feel guilty because they have to inject insulin every single day???

Honestly, this damn Christian narrow-mindedness and the total denial of blatant medical facts is one of the main reasons why mental health struggles are so heavily stigmatized here in our supposedly "God-fearing" country. And let me tell you something—who are you to judge? You act like these big-shot Christians, but then we see the misogynists, the predators, the adulterers, and the sinners who turn their backs on their calling, their faith, and even Jesus himself... those are the people you should actually be ashamed of. Try lecturing them instead of hanging out on this subforum, because you're far from sinless. Where do you get the nerve to throw stones? 👎

You have absolutely no idea how wrong you are.
It’s exactly because you feel like you can't get anything done that you need to start.
If you're telling me that illness was forced upon you...
That’s exactly why you're out of your mind.

What do you think Jesus would say if I actually crawled out of my grave, traveled back through time, and was reborn all over again? Is anyone really going to give me an answer on this one?

☕

Nicholas Thompson8 said:What do you think Jesus would say if I actually crawled out of my grave, traveled back through time, and was reborn all over again? Is anyone really going to give me an answer on this one?

☕

Nothing at all! Look, Jesus isn't really big on the whole reincarnation thing, but you might want to grab a coffee with Buddha to get his take on it.

Larry Howard8 said:You have absolutely no idea how wrong you are.
It’s exactly because you feel like you can't get anything done that you need to start.
If you're telling me that illness was forced upon you...
That’s exactly why you're out of your mind.

Look, Sweetie, you’d be much better off focusing on growing up and helping yourself instead of trying to lecture everyone else. From what I can see, Robert Collins2 managed to pull themselves out of depression and is doing perfectly fine in their daily life, whereas you're constantly looking for someone else to fix your problems—firstly demanding medication, and now pivoting to all these various alternative therapies...

Man, I honestly love it when atheists lose their minds over Jesus or anything sacred and start dropping those mindless comments... Like, seriously, the link between spirituality and mental health is scientifically proven—it's even taught as a course in medical schools in more developed countries. It doesn't matter if it was Jesus, Buddha, Mahatma Gandhi, or maybe even Bono—the truth is people just lack spirituality, awareness, and most importantly, love. Today it's all about ego and just "me, me, me"... which leads to nothing but sickness. So now everyone's just racing to the psychiatrist for a handful of pills.

I wouldn't call myself an atheist, but I don't subscribe to the idea that faith and spirituality are magic bullets for every struggle in life. Sometimes, you have to take matters into your own hands. For someone spiraling into a deep clinical depression, prayer alone isn't going to cut it—mostly because when you're in that dark of a place, you lose the capacity to believe in anything at all. Everything feels hollow and hopeless. In those moments, you have to be able to help yourself by seeking out a licensed therapist who can stabilize your brain chemistry through medication and work through the trauma via weekly sessions. Once that physiological foundation is steady, if the person happens to be religious, then leaning into their faith and attending church can certainly provide an extra layer of strength and healing. But you have to follow that order of operations.

Churches try to medicate people just as much as psychiatrists do, though I won’t dive too deep into that rabbit hole right now because I truly believe an individual has to be the one to save themselves—whether that's through faith, therapy, a good friend, or finding the right outlet.

As far as I can see, the only man who actually managed to heal hundreds of people from their most devastating illnesses all at once—with living witnesses whose stories have been filmed and documented—was Bruno Gröning. He described himself as nothing more than an "antenna" through which God performs the healing. Just being in his presence was enough; there were blind people who regained sight, cancer patients recovered, and those on their deathbeds were completely restored. And this wasn't ancient history; if I recall correctly, it was back in the 1950s. He healed people who didn't even believe in him; they’d just be standing there in a field with hundreds of others outside his house and suddenly, they were fine. Even today, those people can't explain how it happened, they just know they're healthy and hitting nearly 100 years old when they should have passed away decades ago.

It’s a shame that despite having this massive brain, we only utilize a tiny fraction of its potential. Personally, I believe in energy imbalances within the human body, something that aligns perfectly with acupuncture, which is recognized medical practice. We even have our own local experts like Zdenko Domančić working with energy concepts. I've heard it actually worked for some folks.
At the end of the day... whether you call it "Jesus" or something else entirely, it's all proof that there exists something far beyond our physical senses and current understanding.

This is a pretty heavy, controversial topic. There’s actually an entire movement here in the States that treats mental health issues as spiritual crises. It’s even gained traction within certain corners of the medical establishment—you’ll see instances where books are openly presented at medical schools claiming things like homosexuality or atheism are essentially "spiritual illnesses" that can be cured through prayer. They even frame depression as a byproduct of being disconnected from God. You have this segment of the medical community that just shrugs and says, "well, we don't know everything yet," basically applauding these fringe ideas in academic settings. Given everything we actually know about modern science and psychology, what is there left to say about that?

I have some reservations about this approach, primarily because science ought to be anchored in hard facts and objective, verifiable data. Whether or not God exists isn't something we can confirm through empirical testing or scientific evidence; it’s a matter of personal choice and individual belief. That said, I do think faith can be a helpful companion in treating depression when paired alongside established scientific methods, though faith alone isn't a cure for depression. In cases involving disorders like OCD, religious faith can actually be counterproductive if it becomes a catalyst for intrusive obsessions. However, when someone is undergoing proper treatment for OCD—specifically using CBT—faith can provide an additional layer of support once they have fully integrated those cognitive techniques and gained a genuine understanding of the disorder they are managing.

Jason Booth25 said:Look, Sweetie, you’d be much better off focusing on growing up and helping yourself instead of trying to lecture everyone else. From what I can see, Robert Collins2 managed to pull themselves out of depression and is doing perfectly fine in their daily life, whereas you're constantly looking for someone else to fix your problems—firstly demanding medication, and now pivoting to all these various alternative therapies...

Thanks, sweetie. Yeah, I made it out. Now I'm just staying on a maintenance plan for at least six months, but I'm not complaining. I'm not really the type to sit around whining and waiting for a pill to save my life—there's zero point in that. What, should I maybe go sprinkle some holy water on myself or something? 🤣 ☕

Samuel Hill5 said:Man, I honestly love it when atheists lose their minds over Jesus or anything sacred and start dropping those mindless comments... Like, seriously, the link between spirituality and mental health is scientifically proven—it's even taught as a course in medical schools in more developed countries. It doesn't matter if it was Jesus, Buddha, Mahatma Gandhi, or maybe even Bono—the truth is people just lack spirituality, awareness, and most importantly, love. Today it's all about ego and just "me, me, me"... which leads to nothing but sickness. So now everyone's just racing to the psychiatrist for a handful of pills.

Yeah, sure, because we're all just part of some satanic cult run by bloodsucking psychiatrists and a bunch of half-zombies living on antidepressants, right? We're totally gonna destroy the world, haha!

🙄 🤦

Gary James88 said:This is a pretty heavy, controversial topic. There’s actually an entire movement here in the States that treats mental health issues as spiritual crises. It’s even gained traction within certain corners of the medical establishment—you’ll see instances where books are openly presented at medical schools claiming things like homosexuality or atheism are essentially "spiritual illnesses" that can be cured through prayer. They even frame depression as a byproduct of being disconnected from God. You have this segment of the medical community that just shrugs and says, "well, we don't know everything yet," basically applauding these fringe ideas in academic settings. Given everything we actually know about modern science and psychology, what is there left to say about that?

Indeed, the topic is contentious, and I worry we might be "losing our way."😁
Personally, I see nothing inherently wrong with attempting to view illnesses from different perspectives, even within a medical school setting, provided it does not cross the line of practical utility.
However, I am simultaneously baffled by these so-called "movements" and various "trends" that receive undeserved applause for poorly substantiated claims, simply because certain physical and spiritual conditions remain under-researched or misunderstood. In doing so, they gain traction with the segment of the population that finds such narratives easy to believe.
It is because of this that we continue to witness these unfortunate stories in our 21st-century society, even though modern medicine does not define homosexuality as a mental illness.

Jamie Patel4 said:What you’ve written is quite lovely if you approach it from the perspective of a believer, someone who isn't fully informed, or perhaps someone denying the existence of severe mental illnesses classified as clinical diseases.

I will focus solely on the two examples you provided—paranoia and depression.
Both examples are flawed, though looking at your entire post, I conclude you weren't referring to severe clinical conditions (whether due to a lack of familiarity with them or some other reason, it matters little...), but rather "light" versions that might affect the modern individual—things like a pronounced paranoid streak in one's behavior or seasonal depression in people who aren't clinically ill.
Paranoia and depression are not mere behaviors; they are serious illnesses resulting from a combination of genetic, biological, and psychophysical factors, even if they aren't fully understood today.
In the case of depression as a severe mental illness, there is a significant dysfunction in certain neurotransmitters. It is highly unlikely that a patient in an acute phase would be able to simply "realize something is wrong," as you put it. "Wrong"? What does that even mean to you? Or consider your sentence about a person "losing their compass" in relation to these two examples.

Of course, self-actualization is important, and maintaining mental hygiene is vital, but a healthy person will find that much easier to achieve than someone suffering from a severe mental illness caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain.

I will interpret your claim that psychotherapists are essentially "drugging" people in a controlled manner as merely your viewpoint written from a religious stance—one where you project faith and love onto every aspect of life, perhaps unconsciously, while disregarding everything else that has nothing to do with faith.
It is roughly equivalent to me, as an atheist, claiming that the church effectively "drugs" people with Christian propaganda, while ignoring the fact that for a practicing believer, it can be immensely helpful in the attempt to recover from mental illness.

For some, faith provides help; for others, it is a walk or physical activity; some can manage through sheer willpower, but for others, medication is absolutely necessary to restore the chemical balance required to live a quality life. Only then will they find it easier to reach that realization of satisfaction and love you speak of.

Edit: I see > beat me to it, albeit in a slightly coarser version of my own sentiment! Though I am in complete agreement with that version as well. 😉

I mean, I guess we should probably stop acting like paranoia and depression are just things people choose to do, you know? It’s not about how someone behaves or some weird personality quirk they're putting on for attention. They're actual, serious illnesses, and when you combine them... man, that's a heavy weight to carry. It's more complicated than most people realize, I think. I guess you could say it all comes down to genetics, right? It’s like that whole nature versus nurture debate we always hear about. I mean, maybe some things are just baked into our DNA from day one, and no matter how much you try to change things, that foundation is already set. It’s kind of wild when you think about it—how much of who we are is just written in our code before we even take our first breath. I don't know, I might be overthinking it, but it feels like such a huge factor in everything., biological It looks like you might have hit send a little too early there! I was just sitting here thinking about how sometimes the best conversations start with almost nothing at all, though I guess that’s a bit deep for a Tuesday morning, isn't it? Anyway, whenever you're ready to get into it, I'm all ears. Just let me know what's on your mind. I guess you could say it’s all about that whole psychophysical thing—you know, how your mind and body kind of dance together. It's a bit of a trip when you really stop to think about it, maybe even a little overwhelming if you dwell on it too much. I don't know, it's just one of those deep topics that makes you wonder how much our mental state actually dictates how we feel physically, right? Just a thought, anyway. I mean, even looking at things today, those factors still haven't been fully mapped out or totally understood, I guess. It’s one of those things where we think we have a handle on it, but there's definitely still a lot of gray area left to uncover.

So, let’s say you stumble upon this kid, right? Imagine some mother, totally out of it, just leaves her baby out in the middle of the deep woods. Then, naturally, a pack of wolves finds the little guy and ends up raising him. Fast forward maybe five or ten years, and some hikers come along and find him—but he’s not exactly "normal." He’s scratching at the ground, howling at the moon, crawling around on all fours, biting things... basically, he’s acting exactly like a wolf. His social skills? Zero. Just non-existent.

So, what’s the move here? You just lock them up in some psych ward surrounded by people who have completely lost it? I mean, you could try feeding them cooked greens mixed with crushed-up pills—just a little DIY chemistry project to mess with their brain chemistry—and hope they somehow snap back to reality? I don't know, maybe that works in movies, but I guess it’s a pretty wild way to handle things. What's the actual deciding factor for you, though? Like, what makes you think this kid—or even just this person—is actually going to follow any of your orders after that? Or are you just gonna send them out for a walk and call it a day? Honestly, if you go down that route, what kind of medical issues are we even talking about here? Does the person actually have a diagnosed mental illness, or are we just guessing? 😕

Secondly, I guess you have to wonder... is there actually anyone out there who suffers from... Honestly, I’ve been thinking a lot lately about depression. It’s one of those heavy topics that people don't always know how to bring up in casual conversation, you know? It just sort of settles in, like a fog that won't lift, no matter how much coffee you drink or how many times you try to force a smile. I guess what I mean is, it isn't just feeling "sad." It feels more like... nothingness. A total lack of color in everything. You look at things you used to love—maybe it was catching a game at Yankee Stadium or just grabbing a burger at a local diner—and suddenly, it all feels pretty hollow. It’s hard to explain to someone who hasn't been there, so I tend to hedge my bets and say it's complicated, which is an understatement. Anyway, I don't want to get too heavy, but I figured it was worth mentioning. Life in the States can be such a grind sometimes, and mental health gets pushed to the side way too often. Just wanted to throw that out there. If anyone else is feeling a bit stuck in the mud lately, just know you aren't alone in that headspace. Maybe we can all just take it one day at a time.So, you're talking about a whole mix of factors here... I guess what you're really asking is, given everything on the table, what are the actual odds that this person could be rehabilitated? And if we were looking at a path forward, what would be the absolute deal-breakers for their recovery?

I guess this is how I see things playing out. Whether you’re dealing with someone who's just starting to feel under the weather or someone facing a much heavier struggle, the first thing—the absolute most important thing—is for the doctor or the medical team to actually earn that patient's trust. It’s not just about handing over a prescription and walking away. They really need to provide these practical, functional ways of behaving—basically models for the patient to follow—so they can see for themselves that these changes actually work and bring some real benefit to their lives. And honestly? I think the more love, genuine care, and actual desire there is to make a positive impact on the patient, the better the outcome is going to be. You can't exactly measure that kind of stuff with a lab test or a blood panel. That level of compassion, that drive, and that deep belief in a person's potential to grow and become a better version of themselves... you just can't quantify it. Most of the interaction between the doctors and the patient would probably be nonverbal anyway. You'd feel it in their gestures, in how much they're truly committing themselves to the cause, and in that sense of dedication. I guess I'll just say it... to everyone. I mean, if you look at the whole vibe—you know, the way they carry themselves, the specific words they pick, that general tone, even the way they move around... all of it. It’s even in how they play the game or those little attempts they make at being funny or joking around. It's just everything, I guess.

I was thinking about this earlier—you know how some people seem to have this incredible knack for healing others? Like, they step into someone's life when things are at their absolute worst and somehow manage to give them back a sense of purpose or joy they thought was gone forever. It’s wild. It makes me wonder if there’s actually any kind of scientific way to track that stuff. I mean, could you measure it? Maybe by looking at the sheer amount of movement or dance shared between two people in a week, or even just tracking the specific mood shifts in a doctor or a caregiver while they're working with a patient? Is there a data point for empathy, I guess? It really gets into the weeds of human psychology, too. What actually drives us to change how we act? Why do we suddenly pivot our entire behavior? I suppose it’s that constant push and pull—sometimes we're running away from something that scares us, and other times, we're just desperately trying to move closer to something, or someone, that makes us feel whole. It's all just one big, complicated cycle, isn't it?

I guess it’s kind of wild how much Jesus’s whole vibe aligns with what you hear from bioenergetic healers, esoteric types, and even various other spiritual paths out there. There are definitely some shared elements if you look closely enough. Honestly, I feel like actual believers and those "spiritual seekers" would have plenty to talk about, but man, that's probably a whole different conversation for another day.

Just to make this a bit easier to follow; I wouldn't say I'm a follower of any particular religion, if that makes sense. To be honest, I think even Jesus had his fair share of major missteps, just like any other sect or religious movement out there with their own specific ways of doing things. It’s all kind of messy, I guess. On the other hand, whether you're looking at him or any of those other folks who actually left a mark on the world, there seem to be these shared threads when it comes to human health. It’s all connected, I guess—how our physical well-being is tied to our mental state, just like our soul depends on how our body is holding up. And honestly, whether the soul can even exist independently from this physical body we can actually touch? Well, that's a whole different rabbit hole, isn't it?

When you think about experience, the subconscious, memory, perception, consciousness, or logic—and how everyone’s different with all that—it really all boils down to motivation. And motivation is driven by experience. So, I guess if you don't introduce a new perspective, people just end up spinning their wheels because they lack any real insight or interest. When we're caught up in intense emotions or acting on impulse, we tend to fixate on whatever feels right in the moment. It's like our consciousness just shuts out any other possibilities if they seem to clash with what we want. You need some distance to actually see things clearly. Honestly, you almost never see that kind of perspective in the way an American doctor talks to a patient. They just frame the illness within a few specific factors and call it a day; they focus strictly on the symptoms, whether they show up or not, while someone else just drifts along, depending entirely on whatever pill they were handed...

Now, I’m not saying medication is useless. I’m definitely not suggesting it's better for someone to commit suicide or hurt someone else than to get high or use drugs... That's not the point at all. The whole issue here is about the actual approach to treating mental illness, which, if you think about it, is a concept that's thousands of years old. Whether there are parallels to structuralism or esoteric traditions is something we could probably dive into later, maybe.

I wouldn't even call myself an atheist, so I don't quite get why the atheists around here are getting so worked up over my suggestion to discuss a way of handling psychological issues. I mean, psychologists and psychiatrists use these methods too, alongside meds and whatever else, right? Besides, plenty of them are believers, and you even have priests studying psychology nowadays.

Anyway, I won't ramble on forever, but I was wondering if any atheist psychologists here have ever looked into Catholic or other Christian thought to offer some insight regarding the topic I brought up? Just a reminder that this forum is meant for dialogue [presumably 🤷] regarding different ways to look at mental health, rather than being some kind of advertisement for Prozac, right? 🙂

Jeremy Alvarez5, I’m not even gonna waste my breath arguing with someone like you because we all know how these pseudo-religious debates always go down—you just slap an "atheist" or "godless" label on anyone who doesn't see things through your specific lens. And honestly, where do you get off passing instant judgment on those of us who disagree with you, calling us uneducated skeptics? Like, where’s that Christian compassion you’re supposed to be all about, huh? 🙄 The second you drop a question like "is there actually such a thing as a person suffering from depression" and start throwing around terms like "re-education," it becomes blindingly obvious that your "understanding" of psychiatry—as a highly sensitive medical field—and the human brain—which is basically the most complex and least understood organ we have—is nothing more than shallow, primitive nonsense fueled by pure prejudice... ☕