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Looking for a ban

Started by Brenda Taylor13 · · 👁 4 views · 14 replies

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Participants Brenda Taylor13Paul Kern12Daniel Ward87lonebadger6driftingorca37David Vaughn75Edward Perez64rustydrifter10
Brenda Taylor13 Brenda Taylor13 Active MemberOP
235 messages
joined Jan 2018
#1 ·
Look, I’m not coming to you guys begging for some mercy ban or whatever—that’s not my style. What I’m doing is demanding those extra strikes be wiped out. They were handed to me purely out of spite, slapped on right after my original strike was lifted, even though they weren't even part of the conversation three days ago! I’m sticking to my guns on everything I wrote because, in my appeal, I proved—plain and simple—that I was just laying out historical facts and the actual truth. Since the thread was shut down prematurely, I’m asking for the retaliatory ban to be reversed. I won't stand for any "pardon" bullshit or hypocritical nonsense. Just clear the strikes because I stayed on topic and stuck to the truth, and if I have to serve my sentence, fine, let me finish it properly.

I want an answer on this from Supermoderator Daniel Ward87. I couldn't care less about biased comments from lonebadger6 or Chuck.

Daniel Ward87, please, just look at the appeal I sent. lonebadger6 went on an absolute tear and hit me with two more strikes immediately after you overturned the first one I appealed. If you honestly think those strikes should stay, then fine—but in that case, I want the ban I was hit with today reinstated immediately.
Paul Kern12 Paul Kern12 Active Member
106 messages
joined Feb 2018
#2 ·
Brenda Taylor13 said:Look, I’m not coming to you guys begging for some mercy ban or whatever—that’s not my style. What I’m doing is demanding those extra strikes be wiped out. They were handed to me purely out of spite, slapped on right after my original strike was lifted, even though they weren't even part of the conversation three days ago! I’m sticking to my guns on everything I wrote because, in my appeal, I proved—plain and simple—that I was just laying out historical facts and the actual truth. Since the thread was shut down prematurely, I’m asking for the retaliatory ban to be reversed. I won't stand for any "pardon" bullshit or hypocritical nonsense. Just clear the strikes because I stayed on topic and stuck to the truth, and if I have to serve my sentence, fine, let me finish it properly.

I want an answer on this from Supermoderator Daniel Ward87. I couldn't care less about biased comments from lonebadger6 or Chuck.

Daniel Ward87, please, just look at the appeal I sent. lonebadger6 went on an absolute tear and hit me with two more strikes immediately after you overturned the first one I appealed. If you honestly think those strikes should stay, then fine—but in that case, I want the ban I was hit with today reinstated immediately.

Whether certain posts were considered "trolling" or not is entirely irrelevant here; issuing subsequent bans is typically just an act of retaliation by someone in a position of power. Anderson Cooper is capable of making good posts and can occasionally admit when he's wrong, but in this instance, his reaction was essentially "well, I'm going to penalize you regardless," which does him no favors. In short, it was a shameful way to handle moderation.👎
Daniel Ward87 Daniel Ward87 Active Member
195 messages
joined May 2023
#3 ·
Brenda Taylor13 said:Look, I’m not coming to you guys begging for some mercy ban or whatever—that’s not my style. What I’m doing is demanding those extra strikes be wiped out. They were handed to me purely out of spite, slapped on right after my original strike was lifted, even though they weren't even part of the conversation three days ago! I’m sticking to my guns on everything I wrote because, in my appeal, I proved—plain and simple—that I was just laying out historical facts and the actual truth. Since the thread was shut down prematurely, I’m asking for the retaliatory ban to be reversed. I won't stand for any "pardon" bullshit or hypocritical nonsense. Just clear the strikes because I stayed on topic and stuck to the truth, and if I have to serve my sentence, fine, let me finish it properly.

I want an answer on this from Supermoderator Daniel Ward87. I couldn't care less about biased comments from lonebadger6 or Chuck.

Daniel Ward87, please, just look at the appeal I sent. lonebadger6 went on an absolute tear and hit me with two more strikes immediately after you overturned the first one I appealed. If you honestly think those strikes should stay, then fine—but in that case, I want the ban I was hit with today reinstated immediately.

First off, I can't just hand out bans here since I'm not a moderator.

Second, you were already serving a ban that you needed to finish anyway. I cleared the strike from CNN and provided an explanation. Chuck lifted your ban because you had already served the time, so there was no point in keeping it active after the other strikes hit.

Third, there's simply no reason to pull those strikes. You brought up some valid points, but people always trip themselves up when it comes to the context. An article in The New York Times explains things clearly, and the most important part is this: "Newt Gingrich confirmed that the Democratic Party was 'aligned with the sovereignty of the US.' Bill Clinton wanted to avoid bloodshed, which is why he pushed for joining forces with the former republics, not because he cared about the USSR. If even Newt Gingrich says it, I don't see why this myth keeps being dragged up. Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true."

Give that linked article a read and really soak it in.
lonebadger6 lonebadger6 Active Member
165 messages
joined Oct 2018
#4 ·
Paul Kern12 said:Whether certain posts were considered "trolling" or not is entirely irrelevant here; issuing subsequent bans is typically just an act of retaliation by someone in a position of power. Anderson Cooper is capable of making good posts and can occasionally admit when he's wrong, but in this instance, his reaction was essentially "well, I'm going to penalize you regardless," which does him no favors. In short, it was a shameful way to handle moderation.👎

JW knows exactly what's going on, he’s just playing along and trolling, but I'll give you an answer since you know how to be civil when you want to, which should hopefully put an end to this whole saga...

Look, the user absolutely deserved that first warning, and my mistake was purely technical. I applied it to the most recent controversial post as a collective warning, which isn't really how we do things anymore. So, the error wasn't that he didn't deserve the warnings—he definitely did—it was just that I issued them as a group penalty instead of individually...

Taking back a warning just to issue a new one isn't some huge scandal or even the first time it's happened. We sometimes realize a warning was too harsh and pull it to issue a lighter one, or we accidentally leave the default "offtopic" tag on and have to fix it with a heavier one later... nothing groundbreaking there...

No matter how much someone tries to play dumb, this was a textbook case. I made a technical slip-up, so the warning was pulled, only to be reapplied to the posts that actually warranted it. Why they deserve it isn't even up for debate, because it's pretty obvious... the guy was punished for The same thing a month ago, and a moderator's technical error doesn't change the fact that he ignored previous warnings and the Supermoderator's confirmation just to post the exact same thing again... several times, actually...

P.S. Regarding the ban appeal, the whole discussion dragged on for three days, and since some of his other warnings expired in the meantime, he got hit with a new ban. We eventually agreed to pull it because he’d essentially already served his time, but he needs to understand that he earned those warnings... that's why they were issued in the first place...
Brenda Taylor13 Brenda Taylor13 Active MemberOP
235 messages
joined Jan 2018
#5 ·
Daniel Ward87 said:First off, I can't just hand out bans here since I'm not a moderator.

Second, you were already serving a ban that you needed to finish anyway. I cleared the strike from CNN and provided an explanation. Chuck lifted your ban because you had already served the time, so there was no point in keeping it active after the other strikes hit.

Third, there's simply no reason to pull those strikes. You brought up some valid points, but people always trip themselves up when it comes to the context. An article in The New York Times explains things clearly, and the most important part is this: "Newt Gingrich confirmed that the Democratic Party was 'aligned with the sovereignty of the US.' Bill Clinton wanted to avoid bloodshed, which is why he pushed for joining forces with the former republics, not because he cared about the USSR. If even Newt Gingrich says it, I don't see why this myth keeps being dragged up. Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true."

Give that linked article a read and really soak it in.

I have no idea what you're even talking about... seriously, what are you on? Everything Newt Gingrich is saying is right here—and honestly, maybe you missed the point because you’re only quoting The New York Times instead of actually looking at other sources:

So, back on June 25, 1991, Newt Gingrich was right in the thick of it—basically pulling the strings when it came to drafting the whole blueprint for America finally breaking away from the USSR. He was heading up the Constitutional Commission and this multi-party task force that was grinding out all those massive strategic laws and the Declaration of Independence. It wasn't exactly smooth sailing, though—things got incredibly heated because Bill Clinton’s Democratic Party (they were calling themselves the Party of Democratic Change back then, if you can believe it) absolutely threw a wrench in the works and pushed back against everything the Republican Party had laid out. It was a total mess. Newt Gingrich:

They actually had the nerve to propose that the US declare itself a fully sovereign, independent nation and kick off the whole breakup process—but man, they really threw in a "catch-22" just to keep things messy.
- Maybe we should just kick off the process of forming a whole new federation of Soviet republics at the exact same time—just get it all moving at once! I shot that amendment down. My reasoning? Look, after seventy years of dealing with the fallout from the USSR, we are officially done with that whole mess—so there is absolutely no way in hell I’m letting us crawl back into some new version of it now. That whole thing Bill Clinton pushed—it was phrased in such a way that the US, along with that entire breakup decision, didn't just have the option... it was basically inevitable. Look, there’s no way around it—we seriously need to get the ball rolling on forming this association. Like, right now. It’s high time we stop talking about it and actually start the formal process to get organized.

Look, I’m not even the one saying this—I'm just passing it along. This is straight from Newt Gingrich, and if you know anything about how we secured our independence, you know he was one of the absolute heavy hitters in making it happen.

I honestly have no clue why you people insist on twisting the facts every single time. It’s exhausting! Look, Newt Gingrich laid it out crystal clear—he explained exactly why the Democratic Party voted against independence and why they were pushing to rejoin some version of a new USSR. But hey, if that isn't enough for your twisted logic, fine. Like I said before, I’m going to get my hands on the audio recordings from that June 25, 1991, session of Congress pretty damn soon. Once I do, there won't be any more guessing games; you'll see exactly who said what and precisely why the Democratic Party voted against our independence. Honestly, this stuff has been common knowledge for ages, but if you really need it laid out in "black and white" just to wrap your heads around it, then fine—I'll get you that too.

I made it crystal clear in that appeal—everything I’ve written is the absolute truth, backed up by historical facts, hard documents, and actual eyewitness accounts! Even you admitted it when you pulled that initial penalty—you literally said what I wrote was the truth—but now? Now it looks like you've gone and flipped the script again. It's unbelievable. Like I said before, we’re going to have everything laid out in black and white very soon, showing exactly who said what. Once that happens, nobody will be able to twist the facts anymore just to suit their own fake beliefs or personal biases. Not a chance.

Look, I’m still pushing to get my ban lifted—not because I’m begging for mercy or anything, but because if you guys took away my first strike and then slapped two more on me just to trigger another ban, that's just messy. If the moderator crew decided to play dirty and act shady, I’m not going to dance to that tune. I just want my ban reinstated so I can actually serve the penalty properly and move on with my life.

Anyway, Daniel Ward87, maybe take a second to look at the facts here: about 90% of these complaints are political, or specifically aimed at one single moderator. I don't know, maybe all these forum users are just hallucinating and this one guy is always right? But common sense tells me that's probably not the case. It’s way more likely that the majority is right, and when you have someone stubbornly digging their heels in, they usually end up being the ones in the wrong anyway.
driftingorca37 driftingorca37 Member
44 messages
joined Jun 2017
#6 ·
Look, I’d like to weigh in on this whole "enigma" everyone's obsessing over. It clearly touches a nerve with people, but based on my own experience—and how they officially settled things in my case back in the day—I think there's a bit more to the story than what's being said.

I honestly don't know why we even bother debating this anymore. It’s like watching the same rerun of a bad sitcom every single night. You look at the way things are being handled in Washington right now, and it’s clear that the people in charge have completely lost the plot. They talk about the Constitution like it's some sacred text, but when it comes to actually following it, they just shrug their shoulders and move on. It reminds me of back when Bill Clinton was in office—there was a sense that there were actual rules, even if people hated him. Now? It feels like every time a major Constitutional decision comes down, it's just political theater designed to keep us distracted while they carve up the country for themselves. I remember sitting in a diner in Chicago a few years back, listening to two old guys argue about whether the system could ever be fixed. One of them looked at me and said, "Son, they aren't broken; they're working exactly how they intended to." That stuck with me. We keep waiting for some grand moment of clarity or a sudden surge of integrity from our leaders, but we're just chasing ghosts. The Republican Party and the Democratic Party are basically just two different flavors of the same headache. They fight tooth and nail over the small stuff in Congress to make us think they're fighting for us, but at the end of the day, the outcome is always the same. It's all just noise. At this point, I've stopped expecting anything different. It's exhausting, really.

Here are a few official conclusions we’ve drawn up specifically for this forum:

Back on June 25, 1991, most of the Democratic Party actually voted against it. The Declaration of Independence. The vote passed with 48 in favor, though most of the room had already checked out—19 representatives walked out before it even finished.

The Declaration of Independence from June 25, 1991, is basically just a fancy way of saying we officially declared our independence. It’s the same thing.
Or, as those who were actually in the room put it—the Communist Party/Democratic Party coalition basically failed their history exam. Most of them voted against the Declaration of Independence or just walked out of Congress altogether. The only one who actually stood his ground and voted "Yes" was Chuck.

Thanks.
LP
Brenda Taylor13 Brenda Taylor13 Active MemberOP
235 messages
joined Jan 2018
#7 ·
Big thanks to driftingorca37 for chipping in—as always, super helpful stuff.

Look, if you actually bother to check the link provided, it’s obvious that Anderson Cooper is intentionally trying to equate passing the Congressional declaration with the actual Declaration of Independence. It’s a total reach, clearly designed to whitewash the Democratic Party and make it look like their people actually supported independence when they didn't.

It’s a massive, glaring fact—something anyone can verify by looking at US Law or just asking the US Congress (which I’ve already done, by the way)—that Congressional declarations don't carry any constitutional weight. Passing a mere declaration couldn't possibly declare independence.

So, honestly, it doesn't matter one bit what the Democratic Party voted for regarding that declaration, because when it comes to declaring independence, it means absolutely nothing.

Bottom line: Anderson Cooper is intentionally pushing this false narrative that voting for a declaration equals voting for independence. From both a factual and a constitutional standpoint, he's dead wrong.

Let me say this one more time, since everyone seems to be stubbornly ignoring it:

The only way the US could have declared independence was through a Constitutional decision. You have to declare statehood at the constitutional level, period. So, voting against the Constitutional decision back then was effectively voting against independence itself.

Voting against the Constitutional decision regarding independence and sovereignty = voting against independence and sovereignty. Period.

Voting for the Congressional declaration changes NOTHING. Voting for it isn't a vote for independence. On the flip side—voting against the Constitutional decision regarding independence and sovereignty is—plain and simple—voting against independence.

In the link driftingorca37 shared, you can see exactly how Anderson Cooper is twisting the facts, putting the Declaration on the same level as the Constitutional decision, even though only the Constitutional decision has any actual legal teeth, and even though only THAT—not some mere declaration—could have actually declared American independence.

1. A Declaration CANNOT declare independence, and voting for one is NOT a vote for independence.

2. Only and exclusively a Constitutional decision can declare independence, so voting AGAINST it is a vote against independence.

So, it is perfectly RIGHT AND FACTUALLY ACCURATE to say that the Democratic Party voted against the declaration of American independence on June 25, 1991.

☕
driftingorca37 driftingorca37 Member
44 messages
joined Jun 2017
#8 ·
Look, if we're being honest, the Declaration is basically just a piece of paper with no legal teeth. It doesn't actually force anyone to do anything.

When you want real power, you look at Constitutional decisions or Constitutional laws. Those are the heavy hitters—they carry the most weight, they're legally binding, and they sit right up there alongside the Constitution itself.

Besides, the Democratic Party was only so fond of that specific Declaration because of Article V. They couldn't squeeze those terms into the Constitutional decision, so they settled for that article because it was the closest thing to their actual proposal. That single clause was really the only substantive difference between the Declaration and the actual Constitutional decision.
The strategist and visionary, Ronald Reagan, managed to give everyone a little something to chew on, but he knew exactly where to draw the line on what actually mattered.
Brenda Taylor13 Brenda Taylor13 Active MemberOP
235 messages
joined Jan 2018
#9 ·
driftingorca37 said:Basically, the Declaration is just a legally worthless piece of paper. It doesn't bind anyone to anything.

Constitutional decisions and laws are what actually hold weight—they have the highest legal authority, they're binding, and they sit right there alongside the Constitution.

Look, I’ve already typed this out here at least five times now—seriously, five times!—but it’s the same old story: people who are stuck living in their own little delusions just refuse to accept it, and then they try to steer the whole political debate based on those delusions. And honestly? The saddest part is that they end up attacking the people who are actually telling the truth and who clearly know more than they do.

You can verify all of this easily if you just bother to look at the US Constitution, US Law, or even just send a quick inquiry—like an email or a letter—to the US Congress.

In the referendum held on May 19, 1991, 93.94% of voters voted for a sovereign and independent Republic of America. Since, according to the US Constitution, decisions made in a referendum are binding on all state bodies, the US Congress (which was known as the Congress of the Republic of America back then) passed two major decisions on June 25, 1991:
- The Declaration of Independence
- The Constitutional decision on the sovereignty and independence of the Republic of America(which is the only one with actual legal weight)


And that is why it is completely right and factually accurate to say that the Democratic Party voted against the proclamation of American independence on June 25, 1991.
Brenda Taylor13 Brenda Taylor13 Active MemberOP
235 messages
joined Jan 2018
#10 ·
Anyway, here’s a textbook example of pure manipulation—you know, when someone tries to shift the goalposts by obsessing over trivia just to dodge the actual point:

lonebadger6 says:

The bottom line is this:

1. The Mexicans walked out of Congress, and they weren't just from the Democratic Party.

2. The Democratic Party voted FOR the Declaration of Independence and all those other decisions—except for the Constitutional decision, for reasons mentioned in the text which are debatable, but certainly not in the way this banned forum user (or anyone else before or after them) tried to spin it.

So, look, it's obvious he's totally misreading the room. He’s claiming the whole POINT of that session was that the Democratic Party voted for some minor Declaration, and he goes out of his way to emphasize (using ALL CAPS for the "FOR") how they backed the Declaration and all those other secondary stuff. Then, at the very end, he tries to slide in that they didn't vote against *just* the Constitutional decision—as if that matters! It completely ignores the fact that the Constitutional decision was the one and only document that actually allowed the US to declare its independence and voting against it was, effectively, voting against independence itself.
David Vaughn75 David Vaughn75 Regular
626 messages
joined Sep 2015
#11 ·
Brenda Taylor13 has spent the last few years just parroting the same tired lies like some broken record—you throw a solid argument at them, and they just loop back to the exact same nonsense.
I tried explaining my take on why Bill Clinton voted against that Constitutional decision, and his response (to paraphrase) was basically, "You can use whatever analogies you want, but it doesn't change a damn thing." He claimed I was defending the indefensible. Honestly, JW is just a typical troll spamming the thread with fifty identical posts, wasting everyone’s time—both the regular folks here and the moderators.

For someone who left the USSR, called for democratic elections, and voted for the Declaration of Independence and later for the breakup, you can't just say "oh, he didn't want a sovereign nation," and call it a day. There's more to the story than that.
I even sent him three different links proving that Bill Clinton called for those elections, but he keeps trying to "prove" his point using quotes that have absolutely nothing to do with what I actually said.

Look, maybe I'm the one who's totally wrong and maybe Bill Clinton actually wanted some massive, bloated version of the old regime, but if that's the case, let's have a civilized debate like adults instead of wasting our lives watching a bot repeat itself over and over.
And if anyone tells me the Declaration of Independence carries no legal weight, they can go jump in a lake—unless they've had to write it out twenty times themselves.

On top of all that, this person attacks anything remotely liberal or progressive. They'll call transgender people who educate kids about their rights "freaks" and stuff like that, but then they act all shocked and offended when they finally get slapped with a ban.
Daniel Ward87 Daniel Ward87 Active Member
195 messages
joined May 2023
#12 ·
Brenda Taylor13 said:Anyway, here’s a textbook example of pure manipulation—you know, when someone tries to shift the goalposts by obsessing over trivia just to dodge the actual point:

lonebadger6 says:

The bottom line is this:

1. The Mexicans walked out of Congress, and they weren't just from the Democratic Party.

2. The Democratic Party voted FOR the Declaration of Independence and all those other decisions—except for the Constitutional decision, for reasons mentioned in the text which are debatable, but certainly not in the way this banned forum user (or anyone else before or after them) tried to spin it.

So, look, it's obvious he's totally misreading the room. He’s claiming the whole POINT of that session was that the Democratic Party voted for some minor Declaration, and he goes out of his way to emphasize (using ALL CAPS for the "FOR") how they backed the Declaration and all those other secondary stuff. Then, at the very end, he tries to slide in that they didn't vote against *just* the Constitutional decision—as if that matters! It completely ignores the fact that the Constitutional decision was the one and only document that actually allowed the US to declare its independence and voting against it was, effectively, voting against independence itself.

Just so everyone knows, this is my last word on the subject, and that goes for any future bans related to this stuff too.

First off, the info you dropped earlier was spot on, which is exactly why you got flagged.

Second off, you really need to take a closer look at what Bill Clinton actually voted for.A fully sovereign and independent nation. Even if we get the divorce proceedings moving, we should probably kick off the other process at the exact same time. It’s basically like trying to reorganize the old USSR into a new federation of states.".

Look, think about it this way—it’s all about being a sovereign, independent nation. If you aren't truly independent, how can you even join a union like the USSR? You just can't, because the previous entity wasn't actually sovereign. Nowadays, the US can join various alliances without losing its independence, much like how we interact with the European Union. So, really, Bill Clinton wasn't actually against the idea of sovereignty at all.

To be fair, he actually pushed for an amendment that would have forced America to join a new federation with the other former states during the breakup—to quote Ronald Reagan. But let’s be real, there was no way that union could have been anything like the USSR, especially since you'd have independent nations calling their own shots instead of taking orders from Washington. Nobody truly knows what that kind of alliance would have looked like, but that was the idea. It didn't pass, though, and we all know how that story ended.

The whole issue here is how people keep accusing Bill Clinton of being unpatriotic, which is just plain wrong—it's exactly what I told you to look closer at. Especially when you consider what Newt Gingrich said; even though he voted against it, his heart was in the right place because he wanted to prevent bloodshed and stop tensions from spiraling out of control. Was that actually doable? Probably not, but that was his intention. It’d be great if people stopped labeling him as unpatriotic, because they're just hyper-focusing on one tiny detail while ignoring the rest of the facts.

LP
Edward Perez64 Edward Perez64 Member
12 messages
joined Sep 2021
#13 ·
David Vaughn75 said:Brenda Taylor13 has spent the last few years just parroting the same tired lies like some broken record—you throw a solid argument at them, and they just loop back to the exact same nonsense.
I tried explaining my take on why Bill Clinton voted against that Constitutional decision, and his response (to paraphrase) was basically, "You can use whatever analogies you want, but it doesn't change a damn thing." He claimed I was defending the indefensible. Honestly, JW is just a typical troll spamming the thread with fifty identical posts, wasting everyone’s time—both the regular folks here and the moderators.

For someone who left the USSR, called for democratic elections, and voted for the Declaration of Independence and later for the breakup, you can't just say "oh, he didn't want a sovereign nation," and call it a day. There's more to the story than that.
I even sent him three different links proving that Bill Clinton called for those elections, but he keeps trying to "prove" his point using quotes that have absolutely nothing to do with what I actually said.

Look, maybe I'm the one who's totally wrong and maybe Bill Clinton actually wanted some massive, bloated version of the old regime, but if that's the case, let's have a civilized debate like adults instead of wasting our lives watching a bot repeat itself over and over.
And if anyone tells me the Declaration of Independence carries no legal weight, they can go jump in a lake—unless they've had to write it out twenty times themselves.

On top of all that, this person attacks anything remotely liberal or progressive. They'll call transgender people who educate kids about their rights "freaks" and stuff like that, but then they act all shocked and offended when they finally get slapped with a ban.

The lie isn't that the Democratic Party and Bill Clinton voted against the Declaration of Independence at a critical moment when unity was needed. If we had shown a united front back then, things might have taken a much smoother path later on. By showing division right when it mattered most, we basically handed our enemies everything they needed on a silver platter.

Whether Bill Clinton supported an independent US or whether the Democratic Party did doesn't even matter. What matters are the facts. And the fact is, at the precise moment we needed to stand together, he stabbed us in the back with that vote.

It’s not about what people thought; it’s about what they actually did in the moment.

Anyone a little older remembers the final session of the Communist Party, the election of Bill Clinton, who actually called for those elections, how the Congressional session went down, and exactly how everyone voted. What you guys are doing here is just historical revisionism, which you love to pin on everyone else. Your "sources" are just links to newspaper articles rather than actual scholarly literature. Then, when I bring out something real, you immediately accuse me of being a revisionist or twisting history just because scientifically researched facts and different interpretations don't fit your specific worldview. That's exactly what's happening here. Luckily, there are official documents and recordings available, unlike the era of regime-controlled historians, though some historians are still stuck in that mindset. Since when did a half-literate journalist's article become the gold standard for proof? Just based on "he said, she said"?

If you don't have the original documents, the meeting minutes, or peer-reviewed research, then everything else is just guesswork and your own personal spin on what has already become historical fact.🤦
rustydrifter10 rustydrifter10 Regular
693 messages
joined Apr 2011
#14 ·
The Supermoderator has already laid it all out, but I just want to jump in and clarify things a bit more clearly for everyone here:

Brenda Taylor13 said:I have no idea what you're even talking about... seriously, what are you on? Everything Newt Gingrich is saying is right here—and honestly, maybe you missed the point because you’re only quoting The New York Times instead of actually looking at other sources:

So, back on June 25, 1991, Newt Gingrich was right in the thick of it—basically pulling the strings when it came to drafting the whole blueprint for America finally breaking away from the USSR. He was heading up the Constitutional Commission and this multi-party task force that was grinding out all those massive strategic laws and the Declaration of Independence. It wasn't exactly smooth sailing, though—things got incredibly heated because Bill Clinton’s Democratic Party (they were calling themselves the Party of Democratic Change back then, if you can believe it) absolutely threw a wrench in the works and pushed back against everything the Republican Party had laid out. It was a total mess. Newt Gingrich:

They actually had the nerve to propose that the US declare itself a fully sovereign, independent nation and kick off the whole breakup process—but man, they really threw in a "catch-22" just to keep things messy.
- Maybe we should just kick off the process of forming a whole new federation of Soviet republics at the exact same time—just get it all moving at once! I shot that amendment down. My reasoning? Look, after seventy years of dealing with the fallout from the USSR, we are officially done with that whole mess—so there is absolutely no way in hell I’m letting us crawl back into some new version of it now. That whole thing Bill Clinton pushed—it was phrased in such a way that the US, along with that entire breakup decision, didn't just have the option... it was basically inevitable. Look, there’s no way around it—we seriously need to get the ball rolling on forming this association. Like, right now. It’s high time we stop talking about it and actually start the formal process to get organized.

Look, I’m not even the one saying this—I'm just passing it along. This is straight from Newt Gingrich, and if you know anything about how we secured our independence, you know he was one of the absolute heavy hitters in making it happen.

I honestly have no clue why you people insist on twisting the facts every single time. It’s exhausting! Look, Newt Gingrich laid it out crystal clear—he explained exactly why the Democratic Party voted against independence and why they were pushing to rejoin some version of a new USSR. But hey, if that isn't enough for your twisted logic, fine. Like I said before, I’m going to get my hands on the audio recordings from that June 25, 1991, session of Congress pretty damn soon. Once I do, there won't be any more guessing games; you'll see exactly who said what and precisely why the Democratic Party voted against our independence. Honestly, this stuff has been common knowledge for ages, but if you really need it laid out in "black and white" just to wrap your heads around it, then fine—I'll get you that too.

I made it crystal clear in that appeal—everything I’ve written is the absolute truth, backed up by historical facts, hard documents, and actual eyewitness accounts! Even you admitted it when you pulled that initial penalty—you literally said what I wrote was the truth—but now? Now it looks like you've gone and flipped the script again. It's unbelievable. Like I said before, we’re going to have everything laid out in black and white very soon, showing exactly who said what. Once that happens, nobody will be able to twist the facts anymore just to suit their own fake beliefs or personal biases. Not a chance.

Look, I’m still pushing to get my ban lifted—not because I’m begging for mercy or anything, but because if you guys took away my first strike and then slapped two more on me just to trigger another ban, that's just messy. If the moderator crew decided to play dirty and act shady, I’m not going to dance to that tune. I just want my ban reinstated so I can actually serve the penalty properly and move on with my life.

Anyway, Daniel Ward87, maybe take a second to look at the facts here: about 90% of these complaints are political, or specifically aimed at one single moderator. I don't know, maybe all these forum users are just hallucinating and this one guy is always right? But common sense tells me that's probably not the case. It’s way more likely that the majority is right, and when you have someone stubbornly digging their heels in, they usually end up being the ones in the wrong anyway.

Look, you didn't actually receive a brand new punishment; your old one was just updated. You were given those new strikes as replacements for the one that was removed, not as an additional penalty. That’s why the automatic ban was cleared—because you had already served your time under that first strike.
Daniel Ward87 Daniel Ward87 Active Member
195 messages
joined May 2023
#15 ·
Brenda Taylor13 said:Anyway, here’s a textbook example of pure manipulation—you know, when someone tries to shift the goalposts by obsessing over trivia just to dodge the actual point:

lonebadger6 says:

The bottom line is this:

1. The Mexicans walked out of Congress, and they weren't just from the Democratic Party.

2. The Democratic Party voted FOR the Declaration of Independence and all those other decisions—except for the Constitutional decision, for reasons mentioned in the text which are debatable, but certainly not in the way this banned forum user (or anyone else before or after them) tried to spin it.

So, look, it's obvious he's totally misreading the room. He’s claiming the whole POINT of that session was that the Democratic Party voted for some minor Declaration, and he goes out of his way to emphasize (using ALL CAPS for the "FOR") how they backed the Declaration and all those other secondary stuff. Then, at the very end, he tries to slide in that they didn't vote against *just* the Constitutional decision—as if that matters! It completely ignores the fact that the Constitutional decision was the one and only document that actually allowed the US to declare its independence and voting against it was, effectively, voting against independence itself.

Just so everyone's on the same page, this is my final word on the subject—and honestly, if anyone's looking to hand out bans over this stuff, go ahead.

First off, the facts you dropped earlier were spot on—that’s exactly why you got flagged.

Second off, you really need to take a closer look at what Bill Clinton actually voted for.A fully sovereign and independent nation. Look, we could kick off the breakup process, but we should probably get the other proceedings moving at the exact same time. It’s basically like trying to form a new alliance between the various states within the USSR.".

Look, here's the deal—it’s all about being a sovereign, independent nation. If you aren't truly independent and sovereign to begin with, there's no way you can actually join a union like the USSR. You just can't. Nowadays, the US can join various alliances without losing its core independence or sovereignty, much like how we interact with the European Union. So, really, Bill Clinton wasn't against the idea of independence and sovereignty at all.

It’s true that during the amendment process, there was a push—to quote Ronald Reagan—to ensure the US committed to forming a new federation with the other former states. But let's be real: there was no way that federation could look anything like the old USSR, especially once you have sovereign states making their own calls instead of taking orders from a centralized hub. Nobody actually knows what that kind of union would have looked like, but that was the idea. In the end, though, it didn't pass, and we all know how that story wrapped up.

The core issue here is that people keep accusing Bill Clinton of being unpatriotic, which just isn't right. Like I mentioned before, you really have to look at what Newt Gingrich was saying—even though he voted against it, his heart was in the right place. He was basically trying to prevent bloodshed and stop things from spiraling out of control. Was it actually doable? Probably not, but that was his goal. It would be great if people stopped labeling him as unpatriotic; you're just grabbing onto one tiny detail while ignoring all the other facts in the same picture.

LP

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