The Absolute Truth

Truth seekers pour out their very souls, their lives, and everything they have just to catch a glimpse of it.
They scramble up mountains and tumble through valleys, doing whatever it takes to grasp it—weathering the dark nights and celebrating the bright mornings along the way.
Some will eventually find it, though never the whole thing, just a fragment. But honestly? Even a tiny sliver can be worth a fortune. Still...

Don't you get the feeling that Truth, with a capital T, isn't looking to be hunted down by everyone? It’s not like it wants to reveal its entire self to the masses, but rather chooses to show us one little piece at a time.

All those seekers, thinkers, and independent souls who push themselves to the limit to find even a shred of what we call the Great Truth—aren't they actually chosen by the Truth itself as it slowly reveals its face to them? 😲😉

Anyone who actually gives a damn about the truth would realize that Truth with a capital T and Lies with a capital L are often just two sides of the same coin—if one can even be certain the other exists at all.

Gregory Nelson said:Anyone who actually gives a damn about the truth would realize that Truth with a capital T and Lies with a capital L are often just two sides of the same coin—if one can even be certain the other exists at all.

Exactly. Those big letters? They take a massive amount of work,
whether you're chasing down the truth or trying to untangle a lie!😁

wearyowl29 said:Truth seekers pour out their very souls, their lives, and everything they have just to catch a glimpse of it.
They scramble up mountains and tumble through valleys, doing whatever it takes to grasp it—weathering the dark nights and celebrating the bright mornings along the way.
Some will eventually find it, though never the whole thing, just a fragment. But honestly? Even a tiny sliver can be worth a fortune. Still...

Don't you get the feeling that Truth, with a capital T, isn't looking to be hunted down by everyone? It’s not like it wants to reveal its entire self to the masses, but rather chooses to show us one little piece at a time.

All those seekers, thinkers, and independent souls who push themselves to the limit to find even a shred of what we call the Great Truth—aren't they actually chosen by the Truth itself as it slowly reveals its face to them? 😲😉

Let's assume for a moment that this holds water...
Does a person arrive at the Truth through some innate predisposition, or is it strictly a matter of choice?

Whatever.
Highs and lows are just part of the ride—you have to go through them. Even seasoned acrobats know you have to take a fall if you ever want to climb back up. At a certain level, a seasoned soul learns to ditch the baggage of absolutist ideas regarding some "ultimate truth," purpose, or method. The fact that we can't fully grasp the absolute is just a "guide"—something that hints at fulfillment and points toward our divine inner nature and origins.

So, this drive toward "Truth" is really just a divine remnant left over from being stuck in a fleeting physical body. Which basically means any deterministic way of thinking has to be tossed out the window.
Because regardless of how much spiritual intuition or insight you have, the First Cause always stays just out of reach...

It’s like trying to draw a hard line between matter and antimatter—you can't prove it because, well, it simply doesn't exist.

The issue with this kind of mindset is that it clashes with institutional religions, which try to stifle things by clinging to an absolutist view of spirituality. They just don't mesh.

In other words: The search and the struggle *are* the ultimate Truth.

granitebadger30 said:Let's assume for a moment that this holds water...
Does a person arrive at the Truth through some innate predisposition, or is it strictly a matter of choice?

The truth is, we might never actually know. We're just out here making educated guesses, I suppose...

Charles Flores23 said:Whatever.
Highs and lows are just part of the ride—you have to go through them. Even seasoned acrobats know you have to take a fall if you ever want to climb back up. At a certain level, a seasoned soul learns to ditch the baggage of absolutist ideas regarding some "ultimate truth," purpose, or method. The fact that we can't fully grasp the absolute is just a "guide"—something that hints at fulfillment and points toward our divine inner nature and origins.

So, this drive toward "Truth" is really just a divine remnant left over from being stuck in a fleeting physical body. Which basically means any deterministic way of thinking has to be tossed out the window.
Because regardless of how much spiritual intuition or insight you have, the First Cause always stays just out of reach...

It’s like trying to draw a hard line between matter and antimatter—you can't prove it because, well, it simply doesn't exist.

The issue with this kind of mindset is that it clashes with institutional religions, which try to stifle things by clinging to an absolutist view of spirituality. They just don't mesh.

In other words: The search and the struggle *are* the ultimate Truth.

Uhhh... we were out trekking through the woods looking for one specific tree. We finally tracked it down, put in all that grueling work to chop it down, hauled it back home, and planned to turn it into whatever we had in mind...

So, is the actual truth found in the hike through the woods, the heavy lifting, and the purpose behind the timber?🤷

A person can only truly reach the truth once they’ve stripped away every single lie they've ever told themselves—which means hardly anyone ever sees the full picture.
The worst part? Once you finally find it, you can't really share it with anyone else because everyone has to walk that path on their own.

wearyowl29 said:Uhhh... we were out trekking through the woods looking for one specific tree. We finally tracked it down, put in all that grueling work to chop it down, hauled it back home, and planned to turn it into whatever we had in mind...

So, is the actual truth found in the hike through the woods, the heavy lifting, and the purpose behind the timber?🤷

None of that—The truth is Charles Flores23. And you can't even see him for the trees. 🙂
In other words, it's the total sum of everything happening in that cycle:

1. the initial intent,
2. the destruction and wreckage
3. the rebirth—the reshaping

Shiva - look, if you’re actually buying into the whole determinism thing, then both those examples you brought up make total sense... but the second you stop believing in determinism, their logic just falls apart completely.

Charles Flores23 hit the nail on the head there... but I gotta ask, is this "divine" stuff you're talking about necessarily "true to be that haiku"? ... Because from where I'm sitting, that's just one version of Truth that people grasp through intuition... and let's be real, intuition is just one way of knowing things, it's hardly the absolute word on everything.

Anonymous said:A person can only truly reach the truth once they’ve stripped away every single lie they've ever told themselves—which means hardly anyone ever sees the full picture.
The worst part? Once you finally find it, you can't really share it with anyone else because everyone has to walk that path on their own.

It's true, though—truth is hidden everywhere, even tucked inside a lie.🤷

The Seeker always walks alone because their journey is paved only by their own footsteps. That’s what we call personal experience.

Charles Flores23 said:None of that—The truth is Charles Flores23. And you can't even see him for the trees. 🙂
In other words, it's the total sum of everything happening in that cycle:

1. the initial intent,
2. the destruction and wreckage
3. the rebirth—the reshaping

So, no new dresser then... the truth is the forest, but I certainly can't drag a whole forest back to my apartment...😉 Can I just build the dresser out of wood from the woods?

Sean Castillo said:Shiva - look, if you’re actually buying into the whole determinism thing, then both those examples you brought up make total sense... but the second you stop believing in determinism, their logic just falls apart completely.

Charles Flores23 hit the nail on the head there... but I gotta ask, is this "divine" stuff you're talking about necessarily "true to be that haiku"? ... Because from where I'm sitting, that's just one version of Truth that people grasp through intuition... and let's be real, intuition is just one way of knowing things, it's hardly the absolute word on everything.

Honestly, I don't see any reason to prioritize intellect over intuition. They overlap when you actually try to grasp reality—and when they hit that sweet spot of harmony, it creates this sense of relative fulfillment. A sort of illusion of a final truth—works perfectly fine for me.

wearyowl29 said:It's true, though—truth is hidden everywhere, even tucked inside a lie.🤷

The Seeker always walks alone because their journey is paved only by their own footsteps. That’s what we call personal experience.

Oh no, you totally missed my point. What I meant was that the only way to actually find the truth is by stripping away every single lie first.

It started out as the truth, but then layers of deception buried it. Finding the real path means digging through all those lies to uncover what's underneath.

wearyowl29 said:So, no new dresser then... the truth is the forest, but I certainly can't drag a whole forest back to my apartment...😉 Can I just build the dresser out of wood from the woods?

🙂

Aah, Charles Flores23 is being selfless here: handing out useless junk... stuff that’s somehow still dear to Little Red Riding Hood's heart.
Just a heads up though—when you head into those woods, remember there’s an old wolf living in there. 😁

Charles Flores23 said:🙂

Aah, Charles Flores23 is being selfless here: handing out useless junk... stuff that’s somehow still dear to Little Red Riding Hood's heart.
Just a heads up though—when you head into those woods, remember there’s an old wolf living in there. 😁

Yeah, that nasty wolf is his whole deal!🙏
Because let's face it, Little Red Riding Hoods these days carry stun guns everywhere.😂

It's true, without her Gucci bag,
there's a big wolf in the woods.

It is true to be that haiku.

Charles Flores23 said:Honestly, I don't see any reason to prioritize intellect over intuition. They overlap when you actually try to grasp reality—and when they hit that sweet spot of harmony, it creates this sense of relative fulfillment. A sort of illusion of a final truth—works perfectly fine for me.

Exactly... and let's be real, the intellect isn't some absolute authority either. Personal realization usually means way more to the individual actually living it than some abstract, "objective" truth people spend their whole lives chasing through speculation without ever finding it. Why? Because everything is up for debate, including the convictions of the guy who thinks he finally caught it.🤷

Anonymous said:Oh no, you totally missed my point. What I meant was that the only way to actually find the truth is by stripping away every single lie first.

It started out as the truth, but then layers of deception buried it. Finding the real path means digging through all those lies to uncover what's underneath.

And honestly? I’m with you on that. But here's the kicker: how are we supposed to actually tell what’s real and what’s fake? How do you distinguish actual substance from random noise in a field this abstract—where everything feels basically impossible to verify?

Since we're all sitting here debating this, I figured I'd throw a question out to the group: how do you guys even define "truth"? I mean, you can't hunt for something if you don't know what you're looking for, right? Are you sticking to those old-school, formal logic theories... or are you out here using some "alternative" methods to find it?

Sean Castillo said:And honestly? I’m with you on that. But here's the kicker: how are we supposed to actually tell what’s real and what’s fake? How do you distinguish actual substance from random noise in a field this abstract—where everything feels basically impossible to verify?

Since we're all sitting here debating this, I figured I'd throw a question out to the group: how do you guys even define "truth"? I mean, you can't hunt for something if you don't know what you're looking for, right? Are you sticking to those old-school, formal logic theories... or are you out here using some "alternative" methods to find it?

That’s exactly the point—we don't even know what we're looking for!
I truly believe the only way to live is by carving out our own path—one driven by genuine desire and honest intentions. I like to think of it in terms of fire. If you let a lie take hold, it’s like playing with fire; eventually, that flame starts to consume you from the inside out. Just as physical burns damage the body, a lie damages the spirit. Once you feel that internal burn, you realize you aren't dealing with the truth anymore.

The problem is that lies aren't obvious anymore. In today's world, they’re crafted so perfectly and hidden so deeply that you don't even realize you're living a lie until it's far too late. It's easy to get lost in it. 🙂

Let me add one more thing—think about this: that exact obsession with hunting down what we "already know" we're looking for is precisely what drove the Church to launch crusades and hunt down witches in the past. It proves that even when they thought they had the truth in their hands, it didn't mean a damn thing to them if it meant slaughtering innocent people in the process.
It really makes you think: even though the Church held such deep faith in Jesus and God, they were clearly so blinded by that conviction that they committed truly horrific atrocities. We know exactly what we’re looking for here.

wearyowl29 said:Truth seekers pour out their very souls, their lives, and everything they have just to catch a glimpse of it.
They scramble up mountains and tumble through valleys, doing whatever it takes to grasp it—weathering the dark nights and celebrating the bright mornings along the way.
Some will eventually find it, though never the whole thing, just a fragment. But honestly? Even a tiny sliver can be worth a fortune. Still...

Don't you get the feeling that Truth, with a capital T, isn't looking to be hunted down by everyone? It’s not like it wants to reveal its entire self to the masses, but rather chooses to show us one little piece at a time.

All those seekers, thinkers, and independent souls who push themselves to the limit to find even a shred of what we call the Great Truth—aren't they actually chosen by the Truth itself as it slowly reveals its face to them? 😲😉

He who seeks shall find. To find it, we can live that way. I didn't say we must.

Truth offers a choice.

Nemruth Dag — they are.