CheckEmoji Community · the emoji forum
🏠 Home 🆕 What's new ❓ Unanswered 🔥 Popular 📡 RSS Members 👥 0 online
log in · register
Home › Society › Psychology › The Guilt Trip

The Guilt Trip

Started by Kyle Nelson2 · · 👁 6 views · 44 replies

📡 Subscribe to replies

Participants Kyle Nelson2Chris Sanchez11wearyowl29Kyle Lee7Sandra Parker3Samuel Miller21rustymaker5quietpilot87Jamie Wilson3Jonathan Mitchellbluebison70analogsailor98
Kyle Nelson2 Kyle Nelson2 RegularOP
475 messages
joined Jun 2008
#1 ·
So... I’m sitting here having coffee with this girl from the forum, just talking through life stuff, and this one "theory" kind of popped into my head.

I guess I wonder... how much are we, as a society—as a civilization (though maybe this only applies to Abrahamic religions)—basically hardwired to act out of guilt? Like, is every sense of freedom we feel actually just us releasing ourselves from that guilt, or maybe forcing it onto someone else?

Let's look at it like this...
Religion...
From the time we're kids, we're taught that Adam messed up and now we're all somehow responsible for it. So, Bog is great and full of love, sure, but he leaves this seed of self-destruction inside us... we're the ones at fault, and we have to make amends for it.

And then there's upbringing. We're usually raised to be "good," and if we act morally or positively, we get rewarded with attention, approval, a hug, whatever. It's basically conditional behavior. It's not that we're inherently guilty, but we feel guilty if we don't act the way we're supposed to...

How much does guilt hang over our heads in everyday relationships, like some constant Sword of Damocles? We won't treat someone poorly because we have this mental click that it's wrong, and our conscience starts eating us alive.
Or that feeling of guilt when we aren't living up to the perfect image we try so hard to project to the world.

I’ve run into these scenarios myself, and honestly, I've even taken advantage of them before.

For example:

1) A while back, I was in this quasi-relationship with a girl. Even though my feelings were stronger and I was being totally selfless—which, let's face it, I always am—she wasn't reciprocating. Eventually, she did something shitty, and I just turned around and walked away. It felt easier for me because, in my mind, she was labeled as "bad" (and it's easy to walk away from someone you've labeled bad), while she was left haunted by this massive sense of guilt because of her own vanity and the fact that I refused to talk to her.
Then, months later, I said one single thing to her that lifted that guilt away... and she went right back to her old self. Just like I thought. She didn't learn a damn thing.
The pain didn't serve any purpose for growth, and my—unfortunately accurate—hunch that she'd show her true colors played out perfectly.

2) I was talking to a friend who cut ties with her parents because they did something wrong—they were immoral or dishonest for a moment.
She felt this huge weight lift off her shoulders and could finally walk away with a clear conscience.

But it makes me wonder: how much of that was really *her*, and how much was her just acting as an object rather than a subject? How much was her ego pulling the strings and giving her permission to leave?

Personally, I think it is...

But anyway, she's just an example of those mental clicks we all carry around.
That urge to avoid feeling guilty instead of just acting how we actually want to act.

Because, frankly, we just want to...

Wasn't Crawley right when he said the only Bog a person needs is themselves?
I have a feeling that...

Not that I'm saying I'm an egoist... more like, I'm just being who I am.
Not doing good just to boost my reputation in someone else's eyes, but just because I want to do good... or bad... or whatever.
Chris Sanchez11 Chris Sanchez11 Member
27 messages
joined Dec 2008
#2 ·
We’re basically a society built on fear and guilt. Honestly, it feels more like a reign of terror driven by those two things.
It's like a fundamental rule of market marketing. I honestly wonder why it works that way.
You touched on religion, and that's where everything starts getting relative.
To put it bluntly: blackmail.
The pitch is always: Bog is good and Bog is love. And Bog will love you as long as you follow the rules. If you don't, you'll burn in hell—that's the punishment. Or, to put it less dramatically, Bog will be saddened, and you're the one who caused that eternal harm (that's the guilt). It’s how they keep the masses in line under the guise of morality and "doing the common good."
It all sounds great when you wrap it in a cloak of goodness and say it's "for your own benefit," but once you peel back even a single layer, you're left with the naked truth: it's just fear, threats, and manufactured guilt.
But honestly, this pattern shows up in pretty much every human interaction.
Even in your own home, where it’s basically a micro-market: be good, do this or that, and you'll be rewarded with a kiss, a hug, warmth, or some pocket money...
Guilt just breeds more guilt.
Cause and effect, and effect becomes the cause.
A vicious cycle that just keeps spinning.

Actually, I have to ask: how much of that was her truly acting, and how much was she just an object being acted upon? How much was her ego pulling the strings and giving her permission to walk away?

People stay objects until the moment they consciously decide to shift from passive to active.
And yeah, guilt and fear play a massive role in that transition.
It happens once you've exhausted every option and realized the old story just doesn't hold water anymore.

Not me doing something good just to boost my reputation in your eyes, but because... I don't know, I just want to do good... or bad... whatever...

You put that beautifully, and I'm totally with you.
There's just one tiny catch in that last part, though; "I want to do good... or bad..." — that's where freedom kicks in. But where does that freedom end, and who actually sets the boundaries? Anyway, that's a whole different conversation.
🙂
wearyowl29 wearyowl29 Regular
715 messages
joined Feb 2014
#3 ·
Chris Sanchez11;11538717 said:
To’s a bit blunt, but let's call it what it is: blackmail.

The big takeaway here is blackmail. It comes in all shapes—some organized by society at large, and some much more intimate, born from our immediate circles when our emotions clash with reality.
It's woven into the very fabric of our lives... from the moment we're born until the day we die.
It's always "If you don't do this, then you won't become...", "you won't be able to," "you won't have"...

Guilt is planted through blackmail. If a toddler refuses to eat his dinner, his mother is miserable. You don't want to see Mom crying, right? So, you eat.

Or take school: "If you don't go to that Ivy League university, you're a failure. We sacrificed everything for you! Dad worked endless overtime at Boeing... and I spend all day cleaning and running the house..."
"Why would you do this to us?"

In relationships, it's: "If you don't agree to my terms, we're over."
"If you don't accept that I'm the one in charge, then this friendship was a lie."
And even in politics or faith: "If you don't believe in Bog, our party, or our leader, then you're the enemy."
Basically, if you aren't with us, you're against us.

But that pattern applies to pretty much every single interaction we have with other people.

It's this eternal matrix of behavior. Because we're social animals who crave security, we find ourselves nodding along to these various forms of blackmail, falling into a cycle that feels impossible to break.
It’s just so much easier to be ordinary and blend in than it is to be the outlier who stands apart.
Kyle Nelson2 Kyle Nelson2 RegularOP
475 messages
joined Jun 2008
#4 ·
In politics, it’s all about having someone you can actually bribe.
You just buy them off with stuff... material things, whatever...

But honestly? It’s way smarter to install someone who already has some dirt on them from their past.
You don't even have to pay them, or make concessions, or waste money keeping them happy... you just wave that old scandal in their face... (I guess that's why there are so many shady characters in Washington)...

But here in the States, it works differently..
The whole mechanism has evolved into something much more twisted...
We have this built-in sense of guilt that acts like a massive red flag. You don't need to buy people, and you don't even need to blackmail them with their own mistakes (which they're allowed to make, anyway)... you just have to hit that psychological reset button, and suddenly everyone feels so guilty that we just give up on everything we actually wanted...
Kyle Lee7 Kyle Lee7 Active Member
149 messages
joined Nov 2007
#5 ·
I recently came across an interesting idea that the previous era was defined as a "civilization of guilt"—where we focused on what we did wrong to others—whereas today, we live in a "civilization of shame," where the focus has shifted to how others perceive us. It felt incredibly spot-on to me, though I can't quite recall the specific book or article where I read it.
Kyle Nelson2 Kyle Nelson2 RegularOP
475 messages
joined Jun 2008
#6 ·
No, let me get back to my point...

So why on earth is the devil such a massive enemy to us?
Maybe it’s because he’s the one actually providing freedom—you know, doing all the things that are strictly forbidden...
Look, I don't want to turn this into some religious debate or whatever... but was the devil essentially just the opposition party standing up to the dictator?
Sandra Parker3 Sandra Parker3 Regular
419 messages
joined Oct 2007
#7 ·
"The devil within" is just who we really are when the mask slips.

edit:
It's us without any guilt, having given ourselves permission—basically "forgiving" ourselves—to be flawed, regardless of how we look to ourselves or everyone else.

I'm not religious, so I don't have a higher power telling me what to do; I'm my own dictator.
Chris Sanchez11 Chris Sanchez11 Member
27 messages
joined Dec 2008
#8 ·
Kyle Nelson2 said:No, let me get back to my point...

So why on earth is the devil such a massive enemy to us?
Maybe it’s because he’s the one actually providing freedom—you know, doing all the things that are strictly forbidden...
Look, I don't want to turn this into some religious debate or whatever... but was the devil essentially just the opposition party standing up to the dictator?

Freedom comes with responsibility, and responsibility inevitably brings fear.
The fear of failing and taking the blame, or the fear of making choices that shape your own life and everyone else's—choices that lead to more guilt if they turn out to be wrong.

Kyle Nelson2 said:No, let me get back to my point...

So why on earth is the devil such a massive enemy to us?
Maybe it’s because he’s the one actually providing freedom—you know, doing all the things that are strictly forbidden...
Look, I don't want to turn this into some religious debate or whatever... but was the devil essentially just the opposition party standing up to the dictator?

Being the opposition to a dictator is just human nature. We're wired to be free and curious, pushing back against rules forced upon us. It's evolution; it's how humans grow by asking questions, exploring, and digging deeper. And that usually leaves you with more questions than answers.
A dictator is the one who labels that freedom as "evil" just because it sounds bad and makes people feel guilty.
And once you control someone through guilt, you control them. 😉
Chris Sanchez11 Chris Sanchez11 Member
27 messages
joined Dec 2008
#9 ·
Sandra Parker3 said:"The devil within" is just who we really are when the mask slips.

edit:
It's us without any guilt, having given ourselves permission—basically "forgiving" ourselves—to be flawed, regardless of how we look to ourselves or everyone else.

I'm not religious, so I don't have a higher power telling me what to do; I'm my own dictator.

👍
I think
Kyle Nelson2
touched on this quite a bit. At the end of the day, we're all our own worst dictators. We just call it conscience, morality, or ethics to make it sound better. But how does a person even get to that point? 🙂
Kyle Nelson2 Kyle Nelson2 RegularOP
475 messages
joined Jun 2008
#10 ·
Chris Sanchez11 said:Freedom comes with responsibility, and responsibility inevitably brings fear.
The fear of failing and taking the blame, or the fear of making choices that shape your own life and everyone else's—choices that lead to more guilt if they turn out to be wrong.

Being the opposition to a dictator is just human nature. We're wired to be free and curious, pushing back against rules forced upon us. It's evolution; it's how humans grow by asking questions, exploring, and digging deeper. And that usually leaves you with more questions than answers.
A dictator is the one who labels that freedom as "evil" just because it sounds bad and makes people feel guilty.
And once you control someone through guilt, you control them. 😉

And that’s when we start acting like a cat chasing its own tail.😉

No, but seriously, why carry all that guilt when something doesn't work out? I mean, aren't some things just completely out of our hands? Sometimes there's such a tiny margin between winning and losing. It's fine to be disappointed when you fail, but... why does it have to turn into this heavy sense of guilt?
Sandra Parker3 Sandra Parker3 Regular
419 messages
joined Oct 2007
#11 ·
Chris Sanchez11 said:👍
I think
Kyle Nelson2
touched on this quite a bit. At the end of the day, we're all our own worst dictators. We just call it conscience, morality, or ethics to make it sound better. But how does a person even get to that point? 🙂

Oh yeah, he always writes the best stuff 😉

Honestly, I don't care much about the backstory.
What matters to me is how you dial back that internal dictatorship so you can actually live with yourself.

Besides, if freedom just means being shackled to responsibility—where responsibility breeds fear of failure, which then drags in guilt—is that even true freedom?
Something in that chain feels broken. 😉
If responsibility didn't automatically trigger fear... maybe there wouldn't be any guilt tied to our choices at all?

Anyway, I'm rambling again...
Samuel Miller21 Samuel Miller21 Member
39 messages
joined Jun 2008
#12 ·
This is a fascinating topic, deeply intertwined with our very definition of freedom. After all, guilt serves as one of those fundamental mechanisms that constrains our liberty.

I suspect many people overlook a vital truth: human beings were never actually designed for absolute, unbridled freedom..
It brings to mind a poignant line from poetry: "Will freedom ever learn how to sing, in the way that the enslaved once sang of it?"

Whether we look at organized religion, conservative political frameworks, or even the institution of marriage—these are all ways in which we voluntarily surrender a portion of our autonomy.
A believer submits to Bog, a citizen commits to a political ideology, a spouse yields to their partner... and there is a certain inherent beauty in that sacrifice, a sense of purpose that can only be forged through the weight of lived experience.

When we exist in total freedom, we are light, airy, and unburdened... yet, in that lightness, we lose our roots, our purpose, and our significance.
Guilt, fear, and those other heavy emotions may be difficult, but they are essential and unavoidable for anyone who dares to truly feel and to remain connected to others.
Samuel Miller21 Samuel Miller21 Member
39 messages
joined Jun 2008
#13 ·
Chris Sanchez11 said:Freedom comes with responsibility, and responsibility inevitably brings fear.
The fear of failing and taking the blame, or the fear of making choices that shape your own life and everyone else's—choices that lead to more guilt if they turn out to be wrong.

Being the opposition to a dictator is just human nature. We're wired to be free and curious, pushing back against rules forced upon us. It's evolution; it's how humans grow by asking questions, exploring, and digging deeper. And that usually leaves you with more questions than answers.
A dictator is the one who labels that freedom as "evil" just because it sounds bad and makes people feel guilty.
And once you control someone through guilt, you control them. 😉

I wouldn't go so far as to say that human nature is inherently free.
Just look at how many ways we tend to torment ourselves, even when there isn't some external "whip" driving us.
We all carry internal mechanisms designed to restrict our own freedom; human nature is actually quite far from being truly liberated.
Freedom is one extreme, and total subjugation is the other. Humans always exist somewhere in the middle. We are constantly seeking a balance—when we lack freedom, we dream of it, but when we are free, we often find ourselves searching for something to bind us to, or some way to submit.
Chris Sanchez11 Chris Sanchez11 Member
27 messages
joined Dec 2008
#14 ·
Samuel Miller21 said:I wouldn't go so far as to say that human nature is inherently free.
Just look at how many ways we tend to torment ourselves, even when there isn't some external "whip" driving us.
We all carry internal mechanisms designed to restrict our own freedom; human nature is actually quite far from being truly liberated.
Freedom is one extreme, and total subjugation is the other. Humans always exist somewhere in the middle. We are constantly seeking a balance—when we lack freedom, we dream of it, but when we are free, we often find ourselves searching for something to bind us to, or some way to submit.

Maybe.
I'm trying to look at this objectively, but I think my own nature leans toward the extremes. 😁
It feels to me like you can actually reach higher levels of freedom through curiosity, asking questions, and constant learning.
It's really about consciousness. Even in relationships—where everything from basic friendship to marriage involves limiting your own autonomy—it's basically just a series of voluntary sacrifices of your freedom.
I don't think the concept of absolute freedom would even work for us because humans are social creatures by design. Relationships require compromise.
It all feels like one big loop; on one hand, there's that innate drive to push back against dogma and forced values, but then there's what you said—you break free from a dictator just to tie yourself to something else.
Maybe it's all about moderation.
Or maybe I've just talked myself into a massive knot, Bog help me. 🙄 😁
Samuel Miller21 Samuel Miller21 Member
39 messages
joined Jun 2008
#15 ·
Chris Sanchez11 said:Maybe.
I'm trying to look at this objectively, but I think my own nature leans toward the extremes. 😁
It feels to me like you can actually reach higher levels of freedom through curiosity, asking questions, and constant learning.
It's really about consciousness. Even in relationships—where everything from basic friendship to marriage involves limiting your own autonomy—it's basically just a series of voluntary sacrifices of your freedom.
I don't think the concept of absolute freedom would even work for us because humans are social creatures by design. Relationships require compromise.
It all feels like one big loop; on one hand, there's that innate drive to push back against dogma and forced values, but then there's what you said—you break free from a dictator just to tie yourself to something else.
Maybe it's all about moderation.
Or maybe I've just talked myself into a massive knot, Bog help me. 🙄 😁


Exactly that—the circle... or more accurately, an opposition, a seesaw, and a person jumping back and forth between the two. 🙂
Kyle Nelson2 Kyle Nelson2 RegularOP
475 messages
joined Jun 2008
#16 ·
Samuel Miller21 said:I wouldn't go so far as to say that human nature is inherently free.
Just look at how many ways we tend to torment ourselves, even when there isn't some external "whip" driving us.
We all carry internal mechanisms designed to restrict our own freedom; human nature is actually quite far from being truly liberated.
Freedom is one extreme, and total subjugation is the other. Humans always exist somewhere in the middle. We are constantly seeking a balance—when we lack freedom, we dream of it, but when we are free, we often find ourselves searching for something to bind us to, or some way to submit.

you're talking about enslaving freedom, but that’s not what freedom actually is...

In my opinion, true freedom is when everything I do is done without any conditioning, guilt, or social morality weighing me down...

Look, I'm not saying morality doesn't exist, but it has to be this deeply personal, internal thing, not some rule imposed by society.
Sandra Parker3 Sandra Parker3 Regular
419 messages
joined Oct 2007
#17 ·
I don't think we can ever truly shake off guilt, fear, or any intense emotion—at least, not if we want to stay human.
If we strip everything down to the bare essentials and cut out the destructive stuff (whenever that actually happens), we might find something resembling freedom. Right now, though, that "freedom" just feels like my own inner demon.

The trouble starts when you've spent a lifetime holding yourself back, living unfree, or carrying around this deep-seated sense of guilt you either inherited or picked up along the way...
(And look, blaming others doesn't help; it only helps explain why we act the way we do.)
...just like anything else that's suddenly let off the leash, we're bound to make some wrong moves.
From what I've dealt with personally, I’ve definitely regretted things I did purely on instinct—stuff I never would have done before. It happened because I finally allowed myself to react exactly how I wanted to. Without the shackles. I should have probably waited a beat before deciding, but since freedom feels so damn good, there's no immediate sense that I'm being reckless or making mistakes.
But honestly? That’s fine. It’s okay... because it's progress, which is better than constantly obsessing over who I might accidentally hurt.

Total freedom, much like any other "ideal," isn't actually achievable. But a version of freedom tailored to each of us? That's definitely within reach.

One more thing: it's much easier to start the journey of freeing yourself from guilt than it is to try and shed something else:
specifically, the perfect little control mechanism where you pin the blame on someone else just to secure a flawless alibi.
You should never feel guilty for making your own free choices.

Anyway, as much as I'm drifting off-topic here...🤷

@ frikuscha, you know when we end up running in circles? When we overthink everything too much.😉
Samuel Miller21 Samuel Miller21 Member
39 messages
joined Jun 2008
#18 ·
Kyle Nelson2 said:you're talking about enslaving freedom, but that’s not what freedom actually is...

In my opinion, true freedom is when everything I do is done without any conditioning, guilt, or social morality weighing me down...

Look, I'm not saying morality doesn't exist, but it has to be this deeply personal, internal thing, not some rule imposed by society.


I am not suggesting that freedom is being enslaved; quite the contrary.

I agree that freedom is achieved when one acts entirely without conditioning—my point is simply that the price of such absolute autonomy is too high for any human to pay. To reach that level of independence, one would have to sever all ties to everything outside themselves, which is fundamentally impossible, given that our most basic existential need is to remain connected to others.
Sandra Parker3 Sandra Parker3 Regular
419 messages
joined Oct 2007
#19 ·
Just one more thing:

Samuel Miller21 said:I wouldn't go so far as to say that human nature is inherently free.
Just look at how many ways we tend to torment ourselves, even when there isn't some external "whip" driving us.
We all carry internal mechanisms designed to restrict our own freedom; human nature is actually quite far from being truly liberated.
Freedom is one extreme, and total subjugation is the other. Humans always exist somewhere in the middle. We are constantly seeking a balance—when we lack freedom, we dream of it, but when we are free, we often find ourselves searching for something to bind us to, or some way to submit.

People don't just aim for some "middle ground."

Free from what, exactly?
If you're thinking about getting into a relationship, you don't necessarily have to be "free" to do that.

And even then, I don't think anyone is looking to "bind" themselves or "submit" in the way you're describing.

Also, yeah, I agree that morality is an internal compass, not something forced on us from the outside. But isn't having that internal code enough to make someone "unfree"?

And if the cost of staying true to yourself is too high... then that's not really freedom, Samuel Miller21.
The concept of "cost" is also an internal judgment. It's about being able to look yourself in the mirror. 🙂

@fr., I'm actually heading to bed now; I'll go back and read through this rambling mess once I'm sober................. 🙂
Samuel Miller21 Samuel Miller21 Member
39 messages
joined Jun 2008
#20 ·
Sandra Parker3 said:Just one more thing:

People don't just aim for some "middle ground."

Free from what, exactly?
If you're thinking about getting into a relationship, you don't necessarily have to be "free" to do that.

And even then, I don't think anyone is looking to "bind" themselves or "submit" in the way you're describing.

Also, yeah, I agree that morality is an internal compass, not something forced on us from the outside. But isn't having that internal code enough to make someone "unfree"?

And if the cost of staying true to yourself is too high... then that's not really freedom, Samuel Miller21.
The concept of "cost" is also an internal judgment. It's about being able to look yourself in the mirror. 🙂

@fr., I'm actually heading to bed now; I'll go back and read through this rambling mess once I'm sober................. 🙂

True freedom can only be defined by the total absence of conditions.
Whether that feels liberating or overwhelming is entirely subjective, depending on where a person stands at any given moment. And yes, sometimes the cost truly can be unbearable.

The problem is that most of us were raised on this romanticized, idealized notion of liberty—that "oh, how beautiful and sweet freedom is" sentiment. It makes it incredibly difficult for us to grasp that this very same freedom, when pushed to its extreme, can become utterly suffocating.

Kundera wrote a brilliant book that touches on this: The Unbearable Lightness of Being.

Every time we tether ourselves to someone else, we are essentially surrendering a portion of our own autonomy. We expose ourselves to the weight of guilt if we fail to meet their expectations, and the constant, nagging fear of loss.

You must log in or register to reply here.

Log in Register

🔗 Similar threads