Will things get better?

Someone actually suggested I check out a different thread here regarding career paths and how much we're all pulling in...

It’s pretty obvious that so many people with advanced degrees or decades of experience are stuck making peanuts...

Do you think things will ever actually turn around? Is that small glimmer of hope what keeps you going, or are you planning to take matters into your own hands to fix your situation? Let's be real—nobody expects anything useful from the government anymore... Why not just look at moving abroad to change your life? Even if things feel rough, maybe it's worth it to give your kids a better shot...

What do you see happening over the next 5 to 10 years? Whether it's on a global scale, at the federal level, or just in your own life... what would make things better for you? Are you rooting for change, or are you content with how things are? Like, "I don't care how much money I make, as long as I have free time, sunshine, and my family"... or would you still prefer to see your bank account reflect what you actually deserve?$1333

Come on, just admit it—what kind of multi-level marketing scheme are you pushing now? First, you were forcing us into those shady real estate deals, and now you're trying to drive us out of the country. What, are you from Kenya or something?😁😁 🙂

Best,
Chris Ruiz10

get lost

I feel like I've reached a turning point. Everything has plateaued; there's zero momentum. My finances were driven by two major shifts: first, a complete professional pivot after my Master's, then the dot-com boom. Now, those eras are behind me and things have gone stagnant. I'm weighing my next move (-> Ronald Castillo5: Thanks for starting the "Money Game" thread 😉). Something has to change, it's just a matter of figuring out what and how.

stormylynx14 said:I feel like I’ve hit a plateau. Everything has leveled off, and there's a frustrating lack of momentum. My finances have historically been defined by two major shifts: first, a complete professional pivot following my graduate studies, and then the dot-com boom. Now, those eras are behind me, and things have stagnated. I find myself contemplating the next move—(-> Ronald Castillo5: Thanks for starting this "Money Game" thread 😉 ). It is evident that a shift is necessary; I simply haven't identified the nature or the timing of it yet.

My own view is that we will likely continue on a path similar to what we've seen over the last few years—the general trajectory isn't going to shift drastically. Generally speaking, if you possess both the drive and the skill set, there isn't much to fear.

What will persist is the emergence of a new middle class—younger professionals with advanced degrees working for private corporations or multinational firms. This can be viewed quite positively, as these individuals (securing mortgages, buying a couple of cars, traveling for summer or winter vacations) essentially serve as the primary engines of consumer spending.

The persistent issue remains the labor force—there are far too many people in the US who lack the specific skills required for the modern 21st-century landscape. Consequently, their labor value remains marginal on a global scale.

Ronald Castillo5 said:What do you all think is going to shift over the next 5 to 10 years—whether we're talking about global trends, national policy, or just your own personal trajectory—in a way that actually makes life better? Are you looking for change, or are you perfectly content with the status quo? I mean, personally, it’s not even about having a massive $1333 bank account; it’s more about having the time, catching some sun in the summer, and being surrounded by friends and family... stuff like that. Or would you still prefer to see things improve on the financial side, perhaps making earnings feel a bit more earned and equitable?

I’ve never really been much of an optimist, and I certainly don't hold my breath expecting any major upward shifts, though I won't exactly complain if things do take a turn for the better.

That said, if this supposed "improvement" involves us merely chasing the standards of "developed" nations—specifically by adopting their frantic pace of life—then I think I'll pass. I can't speak for everyone else, but after spending five years living in the USA, I made the choice to move back home to $1333 salaries specifically because I craved the freedom, the sunshine, the coast, and the ability to actually spend time with family and friends. I started thinking about what things might look like if I ever had children, and my only real certainty was that I didn't want my kids growing up in a place where they couldn't even step out into a backyard to kick a ball around with the neighborhood kids.

But then again, maybe I'm just being foolish...

You aren't crazy at all, nimbleskipper17... The whole point is that we constantly trade things we think have little value for the things we truly cherish. And that's exactly what you did... You swapped a life in the US for a life back home in the States, trading it all for free time, sunshine, family, and a better childhood for your kids. As long as you're happy, that's all that matters...

My question was really aimed at those people who just aren't happy with where they're at right now. Because, honestly... $1333 Getting paid through VSS... living at home with your parents when you're 35 and already have 15 years of experience under your belt. It’s enough to make anyone bitter, and honestly, I’d be frustrated too. The real question is whether people like that can actually see the bigger picture and realize things will eventually improve, or if they’ll just focus on taking matters into their own hands and building something better for themselves, regardless of what the government or politicians are doing...

Look, here’s the deal. I took my $1.75 paycheck and moved abroad to a place where everything actually costs less than it does back home 🙄

At first, I was like, holy crap, my old man doesn't even make this much after thirty years on the job... but honestly? I’d move back tomorrow for just $4,000 if it meant having some peace, decent people, and a sense of community. Out here, I feel totally isolated. To cope, I end up retail therapy-ing my way through the day just to kill time, which leaves me with even less cash than when I lived at home. During the five years I spent working in the States, I managed to furnish my entire apartment and finally get my life somewhat sorted... [mostly because I realized that being able to buy a TV on a six-month installment plan is basically SOMETHING YOU ONLY DO IN THE US 😁😁😁]

It’s funny, though—back home, people act like a tiny line on your resume makes you a god, just because you worked abroad, even if it was somewhere like Kazakhstan 🙄 Local experts don't get half the respect they deserve. No wonder everyone thinks life is better overseas. It sucks... seriously, there isn't enough money in the world to buy back the youth you wasted stuck in that endless work-home loop...😢 🙄

I completely turned my life around. After graduating with a sociology degree, I landed a job at $1.25 that simply wasn't enough to actually live on. I’m not asking for much—though if I were, I’d certainly know how to spend it—but trying to qualify for a mortgage or even just maintaining a decent quality of life was impossible on that salary.
So, I headed over to the States to study something more commercial, then immediately moved back home to America. It was exactly because of the reasons John Thomas2 mentioned. Being alone without any friends nearby is a total nightmare. And as nimbleskipper17 pointed out, trying to raise a family in the USA is a complete disaster.
The only thing that could have lifted my spirits was shopping (which is incredibly materialistic, I know), but on a student budget, that was a luxury I couldn't afford very often.
Nowadays, I'm working here in America for a foreign firm, and my standard of living is actually better than it would have been if I had stayed in the USA—plus, I don't feel like I'm being exploited quite as much as they do over there.
Still, even this salary doesn't mean I can stop worrying about money. I'm drowning in debt thanks to my mortgage, I don't own a car (I just borrow my parents' old clunker), and I know this job won't last forever.
Should I move abroad again?
Maybe...
But it's not exactly a dream scenario either. When I think back to how I started out as a student in the USA, it honestly makes me cringe...
I suppose I'm still hoping things will change... and that one day I'll be able to live a decent, comfortable life, nothing more and nothing less.

The old wives' tale goes:
Technically, the requirements were all the same: formal education, tech skills, languages, internships, and LIVING ABROAD were listed as absolute must-haves. You'd expect that, but what actually caught me off guard was this ranking they did. Apparently, for a lot of people, having lived overseas matters even more than the actual degree itself.

Yeah, honestly, I find that hilarious too. It’s like it doesn’t even matter what you actually did over there—whether you were just brewing coffee or working construction, it somehow carries more weight than a college diploma. Look, my own time living abroad helped my career immensely, and you seriously can't compare that to some paper "certificate." It made me realize I'm ready to move back. Even if the pay is lower, I don't care as much anymore. I learned my lesson, that's for sure. 🙄>

brightfalcon27 said:I actually moved to the States to study business, but I packed my bags and headed straight back home to America. It was precisely because of the points John Thomas2 raised. Being isolated without any social circle is a special kind of misery. And just as nimbleskipper17 pointed out, trying to raise a family in the USA is an absolute nightmare.

When we discuss working abroad—though I realize we’re drifting from the main point here—we really ought to make an exception for the USA. They haven't quite figured out the concept of government-mandated vacation time or universal healthcare yet. For us Europeans, it feels like living on a different planet.

As for the social life and the nightlife scene, you’d feel the exact same way if you moved to a different city right here at home; you'd be starting from scratch, forced to build a new network of contacts all over again.

the legend said:It’s not like what you did doesn't matter. When I talked about living abroad, I meant staying there while studying, not just hanging out without being in school. There's a huge difference between "learning a language" and doing a semester internship at somewhere like Deutsche Bank. Honestly, who cares if you were working construction over there if you don't even have a degree?
Sorry, but are you seriously moving back? Why? Look, those reasons you mentioned might be part of it, but they shouldn't be the main reason you're trading a Ferrari for a tricycle,

Why? Because having that international experience landed me a much better job offer. 🙂

By a better offer, I mean a higher salary than what you get starting out in America, and just a better quality of life here. 🙂

Look, we can debate working abroad all day... but the bottom line is that taking that leap was a move we made to improve our own lives... at least financially. Some people save up enough to buy the essentials back home in the States, while others gain work experience that actually carries weight back in the US—which usually leads to a better-paying job later on. Essentially, you took matters into your own hands to raise your standard of living. At the end of the day, whatever move we make, it's about us pulling our own weight instead of just waiting for things around us to get better.

Personally, I’m really happy living abroad. I’ve got a great social circle, whether it's fellow expats or locals here in London, and there's always something going on. It doesn't feel like I'm far from home; I fly back a few times a year, or my family flies out to visit me... Sure, everything could be better, but it’s good enough for me. Roses don't bloom everywhere except in the Netherlands, right? If I were unhappy, I’d actually do something to change it. What I mean is... so many of my buddies back in the States have been complaining for ten years straight... and look, I won't judge because the situation for many is pretty rough, but in those ten years, they haven't done anything to improve their own circumstances. You can't just sit around waiting for politicians to fix everything; that's only going to help themselves.

Man... damn, there isn't enough money in the world to buy back the youth you lost stuck in that endless work-home loop...

That’s true, but there's another danger: the idea that once you've achieved something between ages 20 and 40, you're set for life. The world is staring down the biggest retirement crisis in history... more people are retiring and living longer, and governments just can't keep up. That means retirees might struggle, and workers will face higher taxes just to fund those pensions. Plus, if you happen to lose your job after 40, you're basically on your own; nobody's looking out for you then. So yeah, enjoy your youth, but what you build during those years is what’s going to carry you for a long time...

the legend said:Congrats👍

I’d move back too, but I wouldn't settle for anything less than a 10% pay cut compared to what I make now.
Actually, I'm heading back next year myself, but only if the salary beats what I'm pulling here.🙂

It depends... I'm pretty much set in the US when it comes to my apartment and car, so I don't need a massive pile of cash right away [maybe just for a new ride 😁], but I'm planning on making sure $3.25 is more than enough, even though I'm still in the middle of negotiations 😳

Honestly, I’m a bit baffled... It seems like everyone is moving back home and landing amazing jobs in the USA. How on earth did you pull that off? Was it all strictly by the book—job boards, resumes, interviews, formal offers—or did you just lean on some family connections? Maybe I’ve just been away from the States for too long...

And you all claim that companies are specifically looking to hire "returnees"... Well, let’s see. What kind of roles could I actually land (even though I'm not planning to move back quite yet, but maybe one day)? I have a Bachelor of Business Administration and Theology (forget the second part, because I have zero intention of becoming a priest, even if that's where the big money is—thanks, American University), plus four years of experience as an accounts assistant, financial analyst, pricing analyst, and so on. I've worked for places like Hewlett-Packard and Honeywell. My English is solid...

What kind of salary are we talking about here?

Ronald Castillo5 said:Good grief... everyone suddenly migrates back only to land themselves some decent roles in the USA. How exactly did you pull that off? Was it all strictly by the book—job postings, resumes, interviews, official offers—or was it just a matter of calling in favors from your aunts and uncles?

And what exactly constitutes a "legal route" to you? The requirement to report job vacancies to HR has been abolished here in the USA. In short: you find a boss, you strike a deal, and that’s that.

Everything I did was strictly by the book. I found my job through standard job postings. Honestly, I sent out over 40 applications—which isn't even that many in this market. You might think I’d be the type to expect someone to pull strings for me, but instead, I walked away with a $60,000.00 scholarship. I have to admit, that's a massive win that really makes all the effort feel worth it...

"Pick a bank; even The New York Times isn't bad when it comes to money..."
The New York Times...... Legend, are you kidding me!!??
I happened to stumble upon a job opening at The New York Times, looking for an engineer with experience—the highest technical role, but not a manager!! According to them, you only become that kind of person after 20 (twenty!!!) years of experience,....... and you know how little they were offering.....$2500.... !!!
They don't have any loyal people left because everyone moved on to management roles (and honestly, who would stay for that kind of pay!!!), which I guess is a massive leap forward for The New York Times regarding working conditions. To make matters worse, it’s one of those rare places in the USA where you can actually gain real experience outside of somewhere like The New York Times.
So, they probably need someone who learned the ropes abroad, but I doubt they'll find anyone willing to work for $2500.
They likely just hired someone who agreed to the low pay, regardless of whether they actually know what they're doing; I suppose they can afford to do that until actual competition shows up.
I remember there was a thread once about how The New York Times' services are overpriced. Of course they are; everyone who was actually skilled and capable became a manager, leaving very few people to do the actual work (probably just the incompetent ones left through some sort of natural selection), so how can you expect efficiency or reasonable prices from a system like that??!! .... maybe only when they're desperate!! And then they'll probably realize it's better to have a few people who actually know how to work and give them great conditions, rather than twice as many people who are just waiting to become some manager.
I drifted off-topic a bit, but I just mean that the atmosphere for returning isn't the same in every industry. I guess for a finance person, there isn't much difference between working abroad or at a foreign bank here in the USA, but for those of us in tech, unfortunately, it's still not comparable.

In the example above, I would have been willing to take nearly 50% of what I make now where I am, especially since that role felt tailor-made for me; I work with exactly those kinds of people, just on the other side of the table, and without being modest, I know my stuff. So, I guess I would have been productive from day one.
But it's still that old social system: according to the regulations, that position has a set salary, and that's it—there's no room for negotiation.

brightfalcon27 said:I've sent out over 40 applications already.

Me too... took me two whole years...🙄

Did a million interviews, endless testing...🙄

I find it interesting how our expats think about moving back home. Honestly, I don't see why anyone should worry; people always find their way back to their roots eventually.

I met a couple from Sweden today who had zero connection to our country, but they fell in love with the lifestyle here. They bought a house and ended up applying for citizenship.
Their son is studying over at Oxford, and since they both work remotely, they can do everything from home. They told me they love how laid-back and social things are here, while we all sit around thinking life moves too fast.🙄