ZAG and immigrants

Well, you finally pushed me over the edge, so I’m starting this thread. 🥳

Can someone please provide a legitimate, reasoned explanation as to why we aren't allowed to discuss this on ZAG? People talk about absolutely everything on ZAG; we’ve covered every topic imaginable, fighting, making up, and then fighting again. Why is this suddenly being treated as an exception?

So, there was an open thread, things took a turn for the worse, they shut it down, and that's the end of it? 🤷 Does this rule apply strictly to this current immigration crisis, or does it set a precedent for every future issue?

Why is it perfectly fine to go back and forth on the politics of fascists, Chetniks, and communists without any issues?

Does every heated debate on ZAG mean the subject is permanently banned? By that logic, should we stop mentioning gay rights, insults, showering, washing underwear, or anything else under the sun? 🙂

Politics has been off-limits here on ZAG for as long as I can remember. Just take a look at my registration date—you won't find anyone opening threads about politics, except for that one brief experimental period where we all saw exactly why that was a disaster. Even Herb said ages ago that this specific sub-forum isn't the right place for those kinds of debates, and honestly, she hit the nail on the head. We had at least two chances to talk about immigration, and both times it just turned into absolute chaos. The whole vibe of this section and our laid-back rules just don't mesh with the kind of heavy-duty moderation those topics demand. It’s the same story with religion; it’s banned here for those very same reasons.

ZAG is open to pretty much anything else. You can get serious, you can mess around, you can chat about current events—basically whatever pops into your head. This is one of the most chillly moderated corners of the site; the rules are super light, and there aren't a ton of guidelines to stress over, so they're really easy to follow. Plus, there's no rule against reviving a topic if there's a genuine reason to do so.

The Politics section is actually a specialized sub-forum designed specifically for those deep dives, with moderators who are deeply plugged into the news and the subject matter. That's what it's built for, so if you're looking to debate immigration or any other political issues, feel free to head over there.

I’m really glad you started this thread so I can get ahead of the storm brewing over at ZAG before it hits us all.

First off, let me be crystal clear: I don't think for one second that the women on ZAG aren't capable of discussing serious, heavy-hitting current events. Honestly, it’s hard to imagine how that subforum would have ever survived otherwise.
But here is why a discussion on immigration isn't going to be opened up over there again:
1. We tried it once, and despite all our warnings, it turned into a total shouting match that required constant, non-stop supervision just to keep things from spiraling.
2. Right now, we’re spread thin, and frankly, I don't have the specific experience needed to moderate a topic that intense within the limited time I have available.

That being said, I want to reiterate: nobody is banning you from discussing this on the forum. You have the Politics section, which features plenty of other participants and moderators who handle those discussions perfectly fine. Because—get this—you don't actually have to discuss every single topic on ZAG. ZAG shouldn't be this tiny, insular little bubble where nothing exists outside of its own borders. Especially when opening topics like this attracts a massive wave of outsiders who are usually kept away from more strictly moderated, specialized subforums.
I know.... mind = blown

So, this is a moderation decision, and it’s not changing—at least not while things are this volatile. And behaving like five-year-old girls across the entire subforum isn't going to change my mind either. If anything, I think we've been incredibly tolerant of that behavior for far too long.
To quote the legendary Dan: I guess we got a little spoiled.

Thanks for the input!

I get the point about avoiding a flood of trolls from the Politics section looking to stir up trouble, but that doesn't really explain why we can discuss fashion, skincare, sex, recipes, music, movies, or taxes—all things that have their own dedicated subforums—yet touching on political topics becomes an immediate headache for the moderators.

ZAG is its own ecosystem; it doesn't even require an explanation. 🤷 I couldn't care less what some random people from the news cycle think about this matter; my interest lies solely with Reljef, Hilda, Blenta, Kiss, Macy, Ribbons, Ariana, and the rest of the group. 😬

Sandra Thompson5 said:and besides, we can't touch politics because the moderators would have a heart attack immediately.

It isn't just an issue for the moderators, though—it’s a hurdle for the whole forum as a platform. If we actually opened the floodgates to those kinds of topics, we'd be forced to overhaul the entire rulebook overnight. That kind of shift would fundamentally change how this forum is structured, and before you know it, we'd just be turning this into another heavily policed political message board, which is honestly the last thing we need. It’s a bit of a shame because ZAG is a little too laid back for that. Some subjects naturally bleed into multiple different forums, while others just don't fit anywhere else. Politics is one of those things that simply doesn't work here, at least not on ZAG.

Sandra Thompson5 said:Thanks for all the replies!

I totally get the concern about people from the politics section flooding in just to stir up trouble, but that doesn't really explain why we can't discuss fashion, skincare, dating, recipes, music, movies, or taxes—all things that have their own dedicated spaces—without it immediately becoming a headache for the moderators.

ZAG is its own unique world; it really shouldn't need an explanation. 🤷 Honestly, I don't care what random folks from the news feed think about these topics; I care about what Reljef, Hilda, Blenta, Kiss, Macy, Ribbons, Ariana, and everyone else here thinks! 😬

We aren't looking to ban current events, even if they touch on politics. It’s not that we think you guys lack the maturity or whatever to handle those discussions. Take the immigration topic, for example—we tried it, but we ultimately decided it’s much better for the community if those conversations stay over in the Politics subforum.

And I don't want it to seem like I'm pushing back against rustydrifter10, 😁 but if these types of topics can be handled properly under the existing ZAG rules—the very rules this community fought to establish and which define who we are—then we aren't going to ban them. Beyond that, there's really no point in running headfirst into a brick wall when there are already well-moderated threads covering those issues elsewhere on the site.

Look, ZAG isn't "its own world" in the sense that if something isn't hosted here, you should act like it's forbidden everywhere else. Nor does it mean that just because something is happening out there in the world, it absolutely *must* be covered here without exception.

Michelle Palmer6, the rules shouldn't be quite as loose when it comes to politics compared to other topics. We lay out the ground rules in the introductory post—what’s allowed and what isn't—and if someone acts up, they get a strike. We'll just have to judge on a case-by-case basis who actually deserves one, and leave it at that.

I understand the decision to move those discussions over to the Politics section, but you can't claim we're encouraged to discuss current events when just mentioning the word "immigrants" yesterday triggered an immediate warning. 🤷

As for ZAG, it stopped being much of a goldmine a long time ago. 🤷

Sandra Thompson5 said:Michelle Palmer6, look, we don't need to apply loose rules to political topics the same way we do for everything else. We lay out the ground rules in the intro regarding what's allowed and what isn't; if someone acts up, they get a warning card. We'll just have to be a bit flexible about who actually deserves one, and that's really all there is to it.

I totally get why the decision was made to move those kinds of discussions over to the Politics section, but you can't honestly claim we're free to discuss current events when someone mentioned "immigrants" yesterday and immediately got slapped with a warning. 🤷

As for ZAG, that hasn't been much of a gold mine for a long time now. 🤷

Who am I even talking to here?
The whole immigrant topic was tested—it turned into a total mess—so we decided it’s better to steer those talks toward Politics. That doesn't mean you can just relocate any debate over to Mysteries! You aren't trying to make yourselves look incapable of understanding, are you? Because you're definitely not.

Eric Hernandez said:Who am I even talking to?
We already vetted immigrants; we tried one approach, it failed, and we decided it was better to focus on politics instead. That doesn't mean you can just move the conversation over to mysteries. It feels like you're trying to make yourselves look incapable of understanding the issue, which isn't true.

Immigrants were vetted long before they ever set foot in America. This current situation is an entirely different beast. What I'm trying to tell you is that the mere mention of the topic caused someone to react like a child throwing a tantrum at their keyboard, even though nothing had actually gone wrong yet. Perhaps this whole mess wouldn't have even happened if we'd just exchanged a few words about it in the mystery threads.

I'm not playing dumb, so don't act like I am.

Kiss on the hand 🙏

Sandra Thompson5 said:Immigrants were thoroughly vetted before anyone even set foot in America. This current situation is a completely different beast. I’m trying to tell you that just mentioning the topic caused someone to practically throw a tantrum at their keyboard, and that’s without any actual conflict breaking out! Honestly, maybe this whole mess wouldn't have even happened if we had just exchanged a few words about it over on the mystery boards.

Look, I'm not playing dumb here, so please don't act like I am either.

It’s essentially the same core issue, just with some new developments thrown into the mix. The real question is how long it takes to get back to how things used to be. Saab acted quickly to step in, which is honestly better than letting the debate spiral into several different threads—which would then either need to be spun off into a brand new immigration thread that looks destined to end the same way as the first one, or just shut down entirely.

There is already a designated space to discuss immigration. It absolutely does NOT have to exist on the ZAG as an exception to the rule.

The immigrants on ZK just didn't work out. They mostly just stirred up drama among the moderators who kept jumping into the debates (I don't even need to name names)

And since you can't actually hold moderators accountable, it’s no wonder things went south...

Anyway, I'm sure someone will dig into this and clear everything up soon enough...

Eric Hernandez said:I really don't want it to look like I'm trying to push back against rustydrifter10 right now... 😁

You're gonna get a penalty for that one! 🤣

Eric Hernandez said:If we can moderate topics like this properly within the existing rules and standards here on ZAG—the very ones these forum members fought so hard to establish as the core of ZAG—then I don't see any reason to ban them outright.

It’s not about contradicting me; I’m just speaking broadly regarding politics, whereas you’re being a bit more specific and granular. Honestly, the moderators have the discretion to approve a thread that might technically fall outside the usual scope if they feel it's worthwhile, or they can just delete or lock it if they decide it doesn't fit.

Sandra Thompson5 said:I totally get why the decision was made to move those kinds of discussions over to Politics, but you can't really say we're allowed to talk about current events when someone barely mentions immigrants and gets a warning immediately. 🤷

Look, it was just a gentle nudge to prevent the kind of chaos we've seen a few times before whenever that topic comes up. There’s really no need to act like it’s a permanent ban for anyone who has ever dared to mention "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" on this forum. The rules are light; honestly, they're easy enough to follow that you could practically ignore them and still be fine because the moderators almost always lead with a warning first, and there's plenty of breathing room. Besides, if you actually have an issue with a warning, just shoot the moderator a private message or come chat here in this corner instead of making a huge scene in the main threads where it doesn't belong.

brightpuma said:The immigrants on ZK were never going to work out because they mostly just stirred up drama among the moderators who kept jumping into the arguments (I really don't think I need to name names here)

Since you can't exactly discipline the mods, it’s no wonder things spiraled out of control...

But hey, I'm sure someone will dig into this and clear everything up soon enough...

That is a massive oversimplification of what actually happened. The shutdown didn't even happen until quite a while after those specific moderators—the ones everyone is complaining about—stepped away from the discussion.

That said, I’m not looking to start another endless debate about a topic that’s already been closed. If you want to talk about recent events, we can definitely do that!

The mysteries have been temporarily taken down, but don't worry—they'll be back up later today!

Why were the mysteries taken down? Has this ever actually happened before?

Eric Hernandez said:That’s a massive oversimplification. The lockdown actually happened quite a while after those moderators you're complaining about stepped away from the discussion.

But look, I’m not looking to start another debate about a closed topic. If you want to talk about recent events, we can

Sure we can, but everything happening lately is just a direct result of that unresolved mess from before. And honestly, brightpuma is right there; it was an internal tactical maneuver (which, by the way, was executed brilliantly :clap🙂, and then—boom—you get total chaos.
You end up with a situation where a female forum regular becomes a walking lightning rod for trouble. 🤣

It’s obvious this topic is hot and being censored everywhere, not just here—they’re even scrubbing comments on news sites. Clearly, the only place you can discuss this is within strictly controlled politics. I get it; I’m not delusional enough to think we’re living in 1984.
The ladies get it too, they’re just being a bit dramatic. Honestly, they're acting like children. 😉

What really rubs me the wrong way is how they're dragging unnecessary, petty nonsense into the conversation. You know what I mean?

And that’s why we need a revolution. hihihi! 🐔

Nobody actually brought up the whole "hairy chin" thing—you guys just made that up out of thin air! Honestly, it would have been a hilarious bit if you’d just called it quits while you were ahead. I'm really not the type who enjoys banning people or wasting my afternoon playing janitor to clean up threads, especially with a database error looming over us like a dark cloud. But alas, you wouldn't stop, and this was the easiest way to handle it.

Sandra Thompson5 said:Look, immigrants were thoroughly vetted before they ever set foot in America. This current situation? It’s a completely different beast. I’m trying to explain this, but honestly, just bringing it up caused someone to lose their mind—they practically flew at me with a clenched fist hovering over their keyboard. And the crazy part is, nothing even happened! We might have avoided all this nonsense entirely if we had just exchanged a few casual thoughts about the mysteries on the forums.

Look, I’m not playing dumb here, so please don't act like I am either.

Nobody actually got slapped down here. It was just a friendly heads-up to keep things from spiraling out of control before the whole thread turns into a total circus.
Look, nobody was stopping anyone from talking about what's happening right now. There wasn't any deleting of posts, no censorship, and definitely no bans. Everything was out in the open.
Just a quick heads-up right off the bat—I’m dropping a warning here because she just touched on a topic that is notoriously explosive. You know how it goes; one wrong word and the whole thing goes up in flames.
Honestly, even if a few more posts about that topic slipped through after the warning, I don't think anything would have actually changed. It’s just one of those things.
Instead, this is what actually went down.

coastalwolf87 Asks:
Sure, it’s possible, but honestly? Everything happening lately is just the fallout from that unresolved mess from back then. And look, brightpuma is absolutely right on this one—that whole internal maneuver was handled perfectly. Seriously, bravo!🙂And just like that—boom—you’re left staring at total chaos.
You really let it happen, didn't you? You took a regular forum regular and turned them into a total headache. It’s wild how quickly things can spiral like that. 🤣

It’s pretty obvious this topic is a total lightning rod. It isn't just happening here on the forums, either—I noticed they've already scrubbed the comment sections on all the major news sites too. Honestly, it feels like the only place you can even mention this without getting flagged is within strictly controlled political circles. I'm not being dramatic, but it really makes me wonder if we've somehow slipped back into the eighties.
Look, I get it—the girls see it too. But honestly? They’re just being difficult. A little dramatic, if you ask me. Just a bunch of hens, really. 😉

What really rubs me the wrong way is when they start dragging all that messy, unkempt stuff into the conversation. You know what I mean? It just feels off.

And that’s exactly why... heehee... revolution! 🐔

So, who was the one that actually brought oat and coarse hair into the conversation first?
I certainly wasn't being that way, and I promise my warning wasn't meant as an insult.
I honestly have no clue how they managed to spin that and conclude I’m only interested in things like makeup or nail polish. Seriously, where did they even get that from?🤷

Look, what I wrote to Sandra Thompson5 earlier... I just felt like I had to speak up the second things started getting heated. I wanted to throw out a little warning so everyone stays sharp. We really don't need anyone getting their accounts flagged or facing a permanent ban over this kind of stuff. Let's just keep it cool.
Look, I didn't go around deleting posts, and I certainly wasn't censoring anyone.🤷