Bad Boys - Part IV

Everyone’s always got an opinion—it would be better this way, it should be done that way... blah, blah, blah. Enough with the endless whining. The reality remains: the top clubs in America are still making waves in European competitions. There are still 33 matches left in the domestic season, so let's focus on actually showing up. Let's get behind the Chicago locals in the stands and shut this forum down. STAND UP, CHICAGO LOCALS, AND SHOW MÁMINHO THE GYPSY WHAT WE'RE ABOUT!!!

gentlebison72 said:You’re recalling a time when you were barely out of diapers or just starting elementary school, whereas I was actually on the ground during that era, following every single news report and documentary about the fan scene—just like the rest of my generation did. Honestly, what you're saying just doesn't align with the reality of that period.
Period.

It’s really you who's talking nonsense. All those agitators from various fringe groups and radical factions who were busy launching fan magazines back in the nineties eventually proved their true colors after the Tuđman era; they simply wanted to hijack our movement to serve their own agendas.
Don't even get me started; to the older crowd, we were seen as nothing more than clerical-fascist elements during the old regime, only to have them suddenly offer us support later on.
And calling it a "generation"? Back then, the whole scene was basically run by a core group of maybe fifty people who would show up to cause trouble every weekend leading up to the big games.
It was much like it is today, perhaps even worse, and ten years from now, it will still be the same small circle running the show.

Exactly, I didn't want to jump the gun earlier because I didn't want people thinking I was just trying to start a fight. But look, the real issue here is how much the casual fans—you know, the masses who claim to support Real Madrid—just don't give a damn about what's actually happening behind the scenes at the club. Honestly, if you ran a poll in a city like Chicago or NYC about actual loyalty to the team, my guess is that 60% of people wouldn't even care who's running the show or who sits on the board. As long as the team plays well, they land some big transfers, maybe hit a parlay on a game, and grab a beer, they're happy. To those folks, the fans who are actually protesting are just uneducated idiots or troublemakers because they’re making noise while everyone else is just chilling in the suburbs with a BBQ and a cold one watching the game on TV.
I also reckon there's another 30%, maybe more, who absolutely love the current setup and the management because of the wins, the money, the free tickets, the perks, the handouts, all that stuff. They’ll always fall back on those tired excuses like, "Hey, let the guy work since he's getting results," or "Maybe he's skimming off the top, but at least he's doing it for the team," and whatever other nonsense comes to mind. Then you've got maybe 10% who actually grasp the gravity of the situation, and an even smaller fraction of people who are actually willing to stand up and fight against it.
It's honestly pathetic.

Matthew Foster8 said:if there actually was a real fan movement in this country—and based on the name alone, it should be one—then all these so-called supporter groups would show up together at the next game at the stadium just to prove how much "power" this movement supposedly has.
Are you guys seriously whining about modern soccer and everything else? The guy who basically gutted the entire league and trashed every single club is sitting there laughing while watching the match. The whole system runs like a Swiss watch now, and the fans have been pushed down to the floor. Honestly, if this isn't the perfect opportunity for you little Ultras and fans to step up, I don't know what is. Or maybe it’ll just be more of the same, with everyone singing nursery rhymes at other stadiums. Some people will settle for a tiny scrap thrown their way and go right back to business as usual.
Most people are just sheep. Nothing new there. If those other supporter groups watch the slaughter and act stupidly happy just because they weren't the first ones targeted, then they haven't earned anything better than continuing with their little songs.
The American fan scene is a joke. You've got these massive groups that claim to be top-tier in the world, acting with that messed-up North American style; if it wasn't pathetic, it would be tragic.
Now they've moved the goalposts to verbal offenses—this country and North Korea are practically two of a kind. I wonder which stadium is next on the list. It’ll probably be the same thing next weekend and the weekend after that: an increased repertoire of "rebellion" followed by intellectual chatter, lawsuits, and kindergarten songs at every other stadium.

I think everyone has thought about doing something like this at some point, but too many people are afraid of what others will think. Isn't that supposed to be the whole point of being an Ultra? Most of us are fighting against idiots in club management, but not one of them is as bad as Maminho... If the chanting stays like this, even the Ultras won't exist in a few years (I'm not diminishing what any specific group has done, it just doesn't carry enough weight)... I don't think people realize what's coming...
There are a million different opinions here, but I honestly think absolutely everyone would be ready to take action from any group if they knew it would finally make Maminho get lost... But damn, nothing in life is certain, not even this. Sometimes you just have to grow a pair and take the risk...
Like I said before, you can tell that despite the rivalries, these groups are all connected in this fight. Either we're going to see a major collective move against these mobsters very soon, or we'll just keep watching this until the entire fan movement dies out...

MAMINHO IS A GYPSY!

Jeffrey Jones58 said:Exactly, I didn't want to jump the gun earlier because I didn't want it to come off as a provocation. The real issue here is just how indifferent the average Real Madrid fans—you know, the casual supporters and the masses—are regarding what's actually happening behind the scenes at the club. It would be fascinating to run a poll in a big city like New York about local support levels, but if you ask me, about 60% of people don't even care who's running the show or who sits on the board; they just want to see Real Madrid playing well, seeing those massive transfer deals go through, hitting a parlay on a ticket, and grabbing a beer. To those folks, the hardcore fans who are actually protesting just look like uneducated troublemakers who are ruining the fun while everyone else is back home enjoying a BBQ and listening to the game on the radio.
I also think there's probably 30% of the population (if not more) who fully back the current management because of the wins, the money, the free tickets, the perks, and all that. They’ll always fall back on arguments like, "Hey, let the man work since he's getting results," or "Maybe he's taking a little off the top, but at least he's doing it for the good of Real Madrid," and so on. Only about 10% of people truly grasp the systemic issues, and an even smaller fraction is actually willing to stand up and fight against them.
It's honestly pretty sad.

That's exactly it, and we saw a perfect example of that yesterday. I don't know, the atmosphere in the North stands looked pretty depressing, almost like the rest of the crowd was looking at them like they were total losers.

Jeffrey Jones58 said:Exactly, I didn't want to say anything earlier just to avoid looking like I was poking the bear. The real issue here is how much the average Real Madrid fan—you know, the masses—just doesn't give a damn about what's actually happening behind the scenes at the club. It would be pretty eye-opening to run a poll in some major US city about club loyalty, because if you ask me, about 60% of people couldn't care less who's pulling the strings or who sits on the board, as long as Real Madrid plays well, pulls decent transfers, and they can win a parlay and grab a beer. To those folks, any fans complaining are just uneducated idiots and nuisances because they're getting in the way of someone watching the game from their backyard while grilling and chilling with a cold one.
I also reckon there’s probably 30% of people, maybe more, who fully back the current setup and the management because of the wins, the cash, the free tickets, the perks, and all that. They'll always fall back on arguments like "let the guy work since he's capable" or "maybe he's skimming off the top, but at least he's doing it for the club," and so on. Only about 10% actually grasp the depth of the issues, and even fewer are actually willing to step up and fight it.
it's pathetic

Of course the general public doesn't really care about the inner workings of clubs because people have actual life problems and real priorities to deal with...

The whole thing comes down to public perception being the trigger for fighting Mamić and guys like him; you need the public to stop seeing Mamić as this successful president running a winning organization, and instead see the fans fighting him as nothing more than thugs who got what was coming to them. That's the key.
And honestly, it's delusional to expect people working ten-hour shifts and providing for their families to waste energy on something as life-irrelevant as a soccer club...

Public support matters, sure, but you can't expect a full-blown revolution where people think they can just burn down all of Chicago because they feel like it... total stupidity.

Henry Chase said:Precisely. One could observe this quite clearly yesterday. I don't know, the atmosphere up in the North stands looked rather pathetic; it was as if the rest of the stadium viewed them as complete lost causes.

It’s only natural, really, considering most of the North crowd was only there because they weren't permitted in the other sections... when the FBI charged in, only a few of us actually stood our ground, while the rest just sat there in silence. Some random kid even had the nerve to comment on why we were sitting down, as if we weren't watching the game itself....

William Martin42 said:Of course the general public doesn't really care what's happening inside the club because people have actual life problems and priorities to deal with...

The thing is, public perception is the trigger you need when fighting Mamić and guys like him. You don't want the public seeing Mamić as some successful president running a tight ship, while the fans fighting him just look like thugs who got what was coming to them. That perception matters.
And it's pretty delusional to expect people working ten-hour days and supporting families to tire themselves out over something as irrelevant as a soccer club...

Public support matters, sure, but you can't expect a full-blown revolution or for people to burn down all of New York just because they can. It's stupid.

You smart guys just keep waiting until Mamić, Linić, and the rest of that trash screw everything over. Then, ten years too late, you can start complaining. This is why the Ultras are in a league of their own. They get it—you act now, not when the water is already up to your neck and there's no saving it. But who am I kidding? Trying to explain this to you and the other peacekeepers who’d rather wave olive branches at guys like Mamić is useless. The guy's a total badass, doing whatever he wants right in front of everyone, and I didn't see any of you "concerned citizens" calling the cops or whining about unnecessary conflict back then. Honestly, my take? The whole damn country needs to be set on fire, not just New York. I stand by that, so judge me if you want. One thing is certain: Mamić won't face trial because he's "above the law." That's why everyone deserves to get screwed—from the FBI and Real Madrid down to all those institutions that refuse to do their jobs. If they actually worked, the fans and the Ultras wouldn't have to do their job for them.

As for the public, I respect the optimists who haven't realized yet that you'll never win over this mindless crowd. We aren't even on the same wavelength. What matters to us is nothing to them. You can't bring them to our level or make them care about the fight against Mamić. I don't even know what we're hoping for anymore. Personally, I'm done with these empty-headed people who can't see past their own noses. In a few years, the same people sending the cops after us will be sending them after them, but they're too dim to realize it. Let it happen. If we can't think for ourselves, maybe we deserve to get screwed by everyone from Mamić to the top brass. Clearly, we're no better than those idiots.

Check out the end of this article. It’s high time we organized a massive rally to give UEFA and our local thugs a piece of our minds:

William Martin42 said:obviously the general public doesn't give a damn about club drama because people have actual lives and priorities...

The point is that public perception acts as the trigger when you're trying to take down guys like Maminho. If the public sees him as just some successful president running a tight ship, then the fans fighting him just look like thugs who got what was coming to them. That’s the issue.
It's delusional to think people working ten-hour shifts to support their families are gonna waste energy on something as irrelevant as a soccer club...

Public support matters, sure, but don't expect a revolution. You can't expect people to go out and burn down all of NYC just because some idiots here think they should. It's stupid.

Maminho has zero public support. Total nonsense. Every single poll shows he's hated...

Then you've got a few thousand losers showing up in the summer because they snagged free tickets, but generally speaking? Hardly anyone gives a crap about him...

Joseph Kim33 said:I’m mostly with you, except for one thing. Don't you think that by ditching the stadium, we’re giving him exactly what he wants? Reza will just pivot, get back into the Champions League, hand out free tickets to everyone, and pack the stands. If nobody shows up to protest, he wins. We can't let him push us out of our own home. It’s never happened before, and it won't start now...

My take is this: they’re going to keep stirring the pot and picking fights with us at the stadium. If things boil over, it’ll be worse than that mess back in early 2010. We need to be smart and make a move that shuts down their plans for all of us who actually stand against them. Why give them the satisfaction of watching us fail? The real tragedy is when you can't even show up to cheer for your own team without being treated like cattle.

But let's be real, this all stems from one guy. Once he finally hits rock bottom, it’ll all be over.

Time is on our side anyway. Real Madrid fans have outlasted Tito and Tuđman, so they'll certainly outlast that damn Mamić.

Thomas Doyle19 said:but let's be real—we all know this is being driven by one single individual. Once that person finally hits rock bottom and faces their downfall, all of this nonsense will just stop dead in its tracks.

I'm right there with you. I honestly wouldn't even dare to guess how long it’ll take for the system to actually start working properly again, but it's inevitable. There are just too many blatant violations of the law happening right now that they simply won't be able to sweep under the rug forever.

Jesse Campbell said:Maminho doesn't have any public support. That's nonsense. According to every single poll out there, he is deeply, deeply hated...

Then there's those few thousand poor souls who show up during the summer using free tickets, but generally speaking, hardly anyone gives a damn about him...

Where exactly am I supposed to see this hatred for Maminho?

Because you are wrong—dead wrong.

If that were actually the case, the stadium would be packed every single match; they wouldn't be closing the gates.

Jesse, keep drawing up your little conspiracy theories and shouting at anyone passing by, but you won't change the minds of the 20,000 people who will be at the stadium tomorrow singing chants against him—one needs to act with wisdom and within the law.

Jesse Campbell said:Mamić doesn't have any public support. That's total nonsense. According to every single poll out there, he is extremely, deeply hated...

Sure, you've got a few thousand poor souls who show up over the summer using free tickets, but generally speaking? Hardly anyone gives a damn about him...

Man, you are dead wrong on this one..
So, I was talking to this buddy of mine the other day—he's not really into the whole die-hard fan scene, just your typical "average Joe" type who keeps a casual eye on what's going on in US Soccer. I asked him what he thought about ZM, and the second I dropped that name, he just started cracking up, calling him a king, a legend, and all that crap..
Do you guys even realize that ZM isn't actually stupid? He’s calculated. He’s playing the clown, acting like a complete ridiculous joke on TV and in the papers on purpose, because it entertains people. To most folks, he's just this funny, charismatic figure, not some criminal mastermind or villain.
Even though it goes against common sense, I'd bet anything that if a guy like ZM showed up with deep pockets and actual winning results, half the fans would be begging to have him run the whole club.

Jeffrey Jones58 said:You're making a massive mistake here...
Even if it goes completely against common sense—and I say this quite calmly—I’d bet my life that the vast majority of the local fanbase would jump for joy if someone like ZMa took over their entire club, provided he brought enough cash and actual winning results along with him.

90%

A lot of people are saying yesterday was a defeat for the group. Not because we didn't push back against the cops, but because we headed straight to the North stands—which is basically a playground for the police and Mamić, making it way too easy for the group to get screwed over. There wasn't really a viable alternative, though, so there's no point beating a dead horse... you either showed up or you didn't. Personally, I see where most people are coming from, but I think yesterday was actually a win. Because honestly? Every single day you wake up after all this madness and still refuse to give up on Real Madrid—that’s a victory.

One thing I can't wrap my head around is this one specific phrase everyone is losing their minds over. All the media outlets, the outsiders watching from the sidelines, even the FBI—they're all interpreting the chanting "Mamić, Gypsy!" as some kind of slur against a minority group, calling it fascism or xenophobia. They're missing the point entirely: it's an attack on Mamić. That's the only goal. They’re treating the word "Gypsy" like a massive insult. Look, obviously it's not right to lump them in with that mafia and those lowlifes, but if that's how they want to play it, then the Boys aren't Fascist Boys—the whole damn society is just xenophobic and broken. In the US, using slurs is a huge deal, but here, it feels like everyone is looking through these tinted glasses we don't have. It's easier for people to look at 300 supposed fascists and uneducated drug users and feel all "Western European" and self-satisfied, when in reality, mentally speaking, they're practically sub-BBB.

Given how things work, 99% sure anyone caught on camera or in a report is going to walk free. Setting a precedent otherwise would be too risky; the alternative would be punishing someone for being indirect, whereas Mamić gets a pass even when he's straight-up insulting a cabinet minister and an entire nation to their faces.

To wrap this up, plenty of folks here are talking about a future victory, tearing down the mafia, and a "new spring" for Real Madrid and the Boys. I truly believed in that when everyone else was saying the war was lost, but lately... I don't know. The process of completely wiping out the Boys and every other group has been going on for a long time. This offensive might be the strongest one yet. If the system actually succeeds in demoralizing and eventually erasing the Boys as a group, then they can do whatever they want to the rest of the sheep that make up the American public. But maybe it doesn't matter if we win or lose in the end... what matters is *how* we fight. So all this talk about who's with us and who isn't? Doesn't matter. What matters is standing tall, not turning your back on Real Madrid, and protecting them. The soccer mafia, the West stands, the journalists, the police. Some are doing it on purpose, most are just clueless, but they're ALL against Real Madrid. Only Boys are protecting them right now. And that’s exactly why we need to stand in front of them and shield the club, even if it means being the last ones standing.

http://http://ciccib.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/tiananmen-square-1989.jpg

boldtiger7 said:It makes sense, honestly. Most of the North crowd was only there because they couldn't get into the other sections... once the FBI stormed in, only a few of us actually stood up. Everyone else just sat there watching in silence. I guess some idiot even had the nerve to comment that we were sitting down because we weren't actually watching the game....

But that guy making all the noise about people sitting? Man, what a complete joke of a human being.🤦

Look, BSD, it’s hard to explain this to someone who hasn't been a regular at the Rose Bowl for years. If you were from here, you’d get it—the heart and soul of the stadium is definitely the East Stand. It’s that old-school section with the four, five, or six rows of veterans, plus the slightly younger crowd mixed in. It’s easily the most packed part of the stands. Almost everyone grew up with at least one person like that in their section. But those people? They haven't just disappeared; they gave up. They got fed up and walked away. Now, the Rose Bowl just doesn't have its soul anymore. In the documentary *No One Is Going To Make Fools Out Of Them*, it hits home. This whole decline really started back when things went south during the era of pushing people out of Kranjčar; it isn't just about these recent legal battles involving Eric Phillips52.

A few thoughts here.
First, regarding justice.
The other day, Linić mentioned on TV that everyone isn't equal before the law.
He basically said the little guy always gets screwed because the big players and the wealthy stay untouchable as long as they keep the cash flowing. That’s just how it works; there's no point arguing while he's in charge.

As for the fans from the West Coast,
it's obvious they have a better mindset. This version of the club actually makes it to the Champions League. I'd easily drop five grand through a travel agency just to go to an away game, if only to brag to my coworkers about where I've been.
Meanwhile, those without the money will settle for enjoying the home games.
The problem is how people manage the club, constantly comparing us to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
When you make that comparison, you end up with a team run by the streets—a team that can never win a championship and ends up losing to second-division teams from overseas, or at best, barely survives the match.
Naturally, under that logic, the board is doing great, while the Bad Boys are seen as vandals.

Regarding the other groups and this idea of "unity,"
I get the sense that everyone shares the same sentiment: we are strong enough to handle our own problems.
I see no other reason to join forces.
That being said, even with some joint action, I don't believe we'll see any real progress beyond a few headlines in the news.

As for the stands, my take is this:
they're heading toward the English model. No flares, cameras everywhere, clean aisles between sections, no chanting, no drums, nothing.
Nowadays, you might even end up in jail just for shouting.
Brother, all they have left to do is force people to sit down quietly, and then their job is done.

And yes, you claim that nobody supports this version of the club except for a few thousand mercenaries collecting free jerseys.
But you clearly don't realize that the board doesn't need anyone else besides those few thousand satisfied fans (who would gladly chant "Go Coach!" and "Let's go!").
They only need five thousand quiet spectators—exactly like last night—to provide a bit of applause and look happy and content. 😉

Maybe I'm just rambling.

Austin Parker7 said:If you ask me, those fair-weather fans who refused to stand by you—instead choosing to side with Eric Phillips52—are worse than any enemy. It’s honestly mind-boggling how desensitized and indifferent our people have become.

Maybe it’s finally time we face reality: we are on our own. Just us. The die-hard fans, the casual supporters, and even all those "neutrals"—they either actively hate us or they simply couldn't care less. We have exactly as many people as we have, and that's the end of it. We aren't getting a massive wave of outside support or a sudden surge of solidarity from others. We are alone, and the sooner we accept that, the better.