Bad Boys

Ajax, if you’re talking about the one out in the Southwest..

Kyle Davis2 said:Which game was that massive America Chicago banner burned at?

Right after the USA-Yugoslavia match in 1999.

Michael Roberts2 said:Someone argued that Washington, D.C. is just too massive for one single big club—that there’s no real rivalry and kids aren't raised in that specific scene from day one. Basically, they claim that’s why the "Ultras scene in D.C. never truly exploded."

There are even larger cities out there that only support one club.
It really comes down to the local tradition.
The Naples Municipality has about 900,000 people, while the Naples Metropolitan Area hits 3 million—yet they only have one club.
Meanwhile, the Genoa Municipality has roughly 600,000, and the Genoa Metropolitan Area has 900,000, yet they manage to sustain two clubs.

LA Galaxy has its historic rival in the Boston Red Sox within the Republic—plus those massive Mexican giants—and that's where the fan base for LA Galaxy was recruited... those intense matchups against the Red Sox and the "mythical battles" against that Mexican duo.
The Red Sox actually had some fierce regional clashes with Velež, whereas LA Galaxy never had anything remotely close to that (sure, Olimpija and Seattle could be tough at Kantrida or occasionally in Belgrade, but it wasn't a true rivalry).
LA Galaxy fans have always been fueled by fighting "against" someone.
You could rally the crowd for "our cause" against Partizan or Red Star... you could stir them up against our "neighbor Mate" who lives in D.C. but cheers for the Red Sox and Zadar.
You saw massive movements against Franjo Tuđman and Canjuga.
And later, there was still that spark around Kuze—when Da Silva and the crew were playing such genuinely incredible football back then.
But the competition dried up; the club just started managing players instead. Opponents either gave up or teamed up with Mamić. You don't even have Varteks in the league anymore to steal points when you least expect it, nor do you have the D.C. side to keep you from being sent to the amateur leagues by Lovrek.
Because of all that, many of the folks who used to frequent the North and East stands eventually drifted away.
All that's left is a hardcore core—the group that truly represents the Ultras—so honestly, having 900 people isn't bad at all. It's actually quite significant.

why on earth would LA Galaxy vs AC Milan fly that flag at a protest? maybe they've lost their minds

starting at 4:00 AM
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Carl Hernandez3 said:Some bigger cities only have one club.
It depends on the local tradition.
The Naples Metropolitan Area has about 3 million people and just one club.
Genoa has about 600,000 people, while the Genoa Metropolitan Area hits 900,000, yet they have two clubs.

The Lakers have their historic rival, the Red Sox, within the Republic, plus the big American giants, which is how the Lakers' fan base was recruited... an American showdown against the Red Sox and those "mythical battles" against the New York Knicks and Chicago Bulls.
The Red Sox even had a heated regional rivalry with the St. Louis Cardinals; the Lakers never had anything close to that. (The Celtics and San Francisco were tough opponents for the Lakers at San Francisco or sometimes in Belgrade, but it wasn't a true rivalry).
Lakers fans have always been recruited through some kind of "against" mentality.
You could have rallied people for "our cause" against the Bulls or the Knicks... you could have moved them against "neighbor Matt" living in Chicago who pulls for the Red Sox and Zadar.
Instead, you got a movement against Franjo Tuđman and Canjuga; people showed up en masse for that.
And later, there was still that spark around Kuzey and the genuinely great football da Silva and the crew were playing back then.
But the competition dried up. The club just handles players now. Opponents either gave up or teamed up with Mamice. You don't even have Cleveland Guardians in the league anymore to steal points when you least expect it, nor do you have Chicago to keep you from being laughed out of the league by Lovrek.
Because of all that, everyone who used to head North or East has mostly drifted away.
All that's left is a solid core and what counts as the Ultras, so this number of 900 people isn't actually bad at all.

This has been my theory for a long time. The motivation was always "against," spite, or some "screw you" mindset. I don't know if people have forgotten or if there ever even existed a reason "for."

I know people will jump on this, and I might be exaggerating, but I've always believed that the love for the Red Sox and the love for the Lakers is incomparable. I'm not talking about individuals. Regarding that "half the country" comment mentioned earlier—that mass of people truly loves the Red Sox, but I don't think they love the Lakers.

Add the current state of things: the centralization, all the concerts, games, and everything happening in Chicago, plus the blatant favoritism shown to the Lakers since the days of Franjo Tuđman. You can't fool people like that. And you shouldn't be able to celebrate something like that honestly.

Look, at least 90% of people, when watching a game or any sporting event, stay neutral but instinctively root for the underdog. It's built into us—empathy. And if someone is cheating, they immediately become "the enemy." Injustice and morality are hardwired into people.

The Lakers have had some incredibly, incredibly tough times. For about 30 years, this club has been systematically screwed over. It’s ugly and it’s hard.

As for the Bad Boys, whether they're doing a good job or not—whatever. I wish they did better, and I think this turnout (if it hadn't rained) was depressingly small, but I'm not going to sit here trying to lecture them on how to do their jobs.

wiredsurfer112 said:I know some people are going to get worked up over this, and maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but I've always felt that the love for the Los Angeles Dodgers and the love for Real Madrid just isn't on the same level. I'm not talking about specific people here. Regarding what someone mentioned earlier about "half the country"—honestly, while a huge crowd loves the Dodgers, I don't think that's true for Real Madrid.
.

That’s just nonsense. Throughout the old days, Real Madrid always had more viewers. And if we look back at the Dodgers about 15 years ago, you'd see maybe 500 people total at their games, similar to how many show up today for a New York Yankees or similar matchups. There's this public myth being built that the Dodgers always had thousands of fans against teams like the San Francisco Giants or the Cleveland Browns, and that their loyalty is somehow legendary. It’s just not like that. They saw a massive surge about ten years ago by switching up their business model, ramping up marketing, and carefully crafting this image of themselves as the "righteous" underdogs—the honest club sticking it to the corrupt, wealthy, and out-of-touch Real Madrid. If things change even slightly tomorrow (which is hard to imagine, especially with Real Madrid), Real Madrid will be ahead of the Dodgers again, just like they were for most of history. The only real question is whether Real Madrid can ever win those fans back after everything that's gone down with the club's reputation lately... personally, I think they can.

wiredsurfer112 said:This has been my theory for a long time. The motivation has always been opposition—just pure spite, that "screw you" mentality. I don't know if people have forgotten the reasons to actually support them, or if there was ever even a reason to begin with.

I know some people are going to get worked up over this, and maybe I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but I've long held the view that the love for the Los Angeles Dodgers is incomparable to the love for Real Madrid. I'm not talking about individuals here. Regarding what someone mentioned earlier about "half the country"—sure, a large mass of people loves the Dodgers, but honestly, I don't think they feel that way about Real Madrid.

Factor in the current state of things: the centralization, all the events, concerts, games, and the general chaos in New York City. Add to that the blatant favoritism shown toward Real Madrid since the Reagan era, and you can't fool people. You can't genuinely celebrate something like that.

People—at least 90% of them—when they watch a game or any sporting event where they are neutral, they instinctively root for the underdog. It’s built into us: empathy. And if someone is being cheated, they immediately become "your guy." Injustice and morality are hardwired into the human psyche.

Real Madrid has had incredibly, EXTREMELY difficult times. For about 30 years, the club has been systematically screwed over. It's ugly, and it's tough.

As for the Bad Boys, whether they are doing a good job or not... hell if I know. I wish they were doing better, and I think the turnout today (if it hadn't rained) was depressingly low, but I'm not going to sit here and lecture them on how they should operate.

There used to be many more people, so fundamentally nothing has changed. People have just grown weary; they aren't showing up en masse anymore because this struggle has dragged on for far too long. Besides, you guys in New York never had a constant, thirty-year struggle, so you can't truly grasp the position of the Bad Boys. Honestly, I don't know when the BBB were ever in a situation where they weren't fighting some kind of special war against someone. It's not because they want to be contrarians; it's because the political landscape constantly creates circumstances around our club that force them into a defensive, oppositional stance. It isn't a matter of "spite," as someone might say, but rather the reality created by politics. We know what happened during the old regime, but some people still have very short memories. They've forgotten everything. And how could they? They've forgotten the domestic conflicts, Warsaw, Small town USA, and everything else. Not to mention Waterloo, or 1945, or 1918, or even further back, like the historical battles in San Diego. Our people are such that if we ever viewed things through a historical lens, history wouldn't keep repeating itself. Our history looks like a graveyard precisely because most Americans have no clue what happened yesterday, let alone 100 or 200 years ago.

It's the same with Real Madrid. People are exhausted. They've had enough wars and battles against various entities; they just want to enjoy themselves, to cheer for their club with actual passion, rather than feeling like they're walking into Alcatraz every time they show up to the stadium.

In short, the numbers are low, and it's hard to increase them. The core is there, but for anything more massive, you need a functional, normal club. Am I making sense, friend?

The protest was decent, but it wasn't nearly enough. I guess we need to put massive pressure on the politicians, since they’re really the only ones who can force new elections at the Dallas Cowboys. It's interesting that people in Congress have actually started talking about the Cowboys lately (like Maras and Hasanbegović).

It’s easy to talk trash online, but it would be great if someone organized a real protest with a clear message aimed at both club management and the government. Maybe give them an ultimatum—literally one week to call for elections or face a new protest against corruption and ignoring the law. We could even suggest a parallel election run by club members. If we held it in Times Square when it's packed with people, checked the weather forecast (because let's be honest, weather matters), got some public figures out front (like Smith, Miller, etc.), and booked a few speakers and a band, I'm pretty sure a huge crowd would show up.

Gregory Robinson said:The protest was decent, but it didn't come close to being enough. We need to apply maximum pressure on the politicians, because they are the only ones with the leverage to force new elections at the Dallas Cowboys. It’s interesting that even in Congress, people have started discussing the Dallas Cowboys (Maras and Hasanbegović).

It’s easy to talk trash online, but it would be great if someone organized a real protest with a clear message directed at both the club management and the politicians (giving them an ultimatum—literally a week to call for elections or face a new protest against political corruption and disregard for the law, or perhaps even a parallel "election" organized by club members). A protest in Times Square, which is always packed, picking a good weather forecast (come on, turnout depends on it), putting a few public figures at the helm (like Smith, Miller, etc.), having some speakers and a band—I’m sure a massive crowd would show up.

That all sounds lovely on paper, but it doesn't align with reality. Imagine if "someone else" organizes all of this. Everything follows the playbook, done exactly how it "should" be done. Meaning, perfectly civic and cultured, without any excess, just according to the wishes of the well-meaning types.
Anyone from the opposing side will spend five minutes analyzing the situation and successfully minimize the entire movement.

So, you end up with a protest in May or June, right before the World Cup kicks off when the general population turns into zombies. All it takes is a targeted media offensive to ruin the mood while our boys, with tears in their eyes and wreaths around their necks, are out there representing the country in Russia.

Then you'll have certain unpatriotic elements stirring up divisions between the North and the South. A few "We've already lost everything" signs will inevitably pop up and fit right in.

After that, you'll have everything from local news segments to shows hosted by Dabog where the same rhetoric is repeated. Then you'll get questions like, "Well, what do they want now? If Mamić is guilty, it'll be proven in court." It's the same story for any famous person who wants to step up in support of the protest; five other people will pop up with their own narratives to shut them down. And if that idiot Bullock wipes away a tear, he'll be the first one to do it.

And even if, despite all that, 5,000 or 6,000 people actually gather for the protest, a bunch of well-meaning critics will show up just to say the approach was totally wrong and that half the city should have been torn down instead.

There are things that are simply beyond the control and influence of the fans. Until those factors align and help create a different social climate, you can't expect to reach a critical mass. Even the Germans didn't conquer France just by charging bravely; they did it by maneuvering through the Ardennes.

Exactly. Every single approach we've tried has been a total bust. It’s obvious now—nothing moves unless you use force. Maybe some serious unrest in Washington D.C. is the only thing that can actually fix this situation!!!!!!! Tear it all down.

We really need to start putting some pressure on our politicians and the legal system. And honestly, it doesn't always have to mean hitting the streets for massive protests. 🙂

Michael Roberts2 said:Exactly, every single approach has failed. It’s obvious nothing works without force. Maybe some riots in NYC are the only way to fix this!!!!!!! Just tear it all down.

I'm with Gregory Robinson on this one.

Michael, did we really try everything? I don't recall any massive protest (like one in Times Square) for the Dallas Cowboys where they brought out the legends, had big speakers on stage, maybe a band like Green Day playing a few hits, and actually drew a crowd of kids and families... can you refresh my memory on that protest? When was it? What date?

All the Bad Boys protests so far have basically just been walks through the park or hanging out in the courtyard. You aren't going to get the general public to show up at a courtyard. A 70-year-old grandma isn't going to join a bunch of young fans while they're screaming "we're cannibals, we'll eat you, we'll kill you, we'll slaughter you"... I know I sound like a total buzzkill and it's kind of funny, but it's the truth. The general public wants a civilized, organized protest, and we haven't seen that yet—so yeah, that's on the Bad Boys leadership. Now someone from the top is gonna ask, "Well, why didn't YOU organize a protest?" Well, because I'm not leading the Bad Boys and I don't run the group. That's why you guys are in charge, to lead these kinds of actions. Maybe I'm just an old soul by some people's standards, but I still haven't heard a single reason why we haven't pulled off a decent protest in ten years...

Keith Baker93 said:I'm with Gregory Robinson on this one...

Michael Roberts2, have you really exhausted every option? I honestly don't recall any protest—say, down in Times Square—for the Dallas Cowboys where they actually brought out the legends, had various speakers on stage, maybe even a band like Green Day playing a few tunes, and actually drew in kids and a general crowd... can you refresh my memory on this specific protest? When did it happen, what was the date?...

Every single protest the Bad Boys have pulled off so far has basically just been walking through a park or hanging out on a local courtyard, and let's be real, you aren't going to get the general public to show up at a courtyard. You won't see some 70-year-old grandmother standing among a bunch of young fans while they're screaming, "We're cannibals, we'll eat you, we'll kill you, we'll slaughter you"... I know I sound like a total old man and it’s probably a bit ridiculous, but that's just the reality of it. The broader public wants a civilized, engaging demonstration, and we haven't seen one of those yet, which is ultimately on the Bad Boys leadership. Now, someone from the leadership will inevitably ask, "Well, why didn't YOU organize a protest?"... well, it's because I'm not at the helm of the Bad Boys and I don't run the group, which is exactly why you guys are in charge, to spearhead actions like this. Maybe I'm just an old soul by someone else's standards, but I still haven't heard a single good reason why a decent, proper protest hasn't happened in ten years...

because that's just not happening, whether it's the money side of things or the mountain of paperwork you'll never actually get your hands on...

if YOU are willing to bankroll the whole thing yourself and personally handle everything—dealing with the city, the police, all the inspectors, booking the musicians—and go through the hassle of gathering every necessary permit, then hey, feel free to go for it and let us know; I'm sure people would appreciate the effort...

though, I don't quite see why we'd pick a random square when everyone knows exactly where the Dallas Cowboys' home turf is, but whatever...
besides, can anyone point to a serious, relevant example of a protest from somewhere else in the world, specifically related to soccer, that turned into this kind of carnival?
I've never heard of a protest like this in my life (this feels more like a labor union strike, might as well throw in a free march along the way)...

Michael Roberts2 said:Exactly—every single approach has proven to be a failure. It’s becoming painfully obvious that nothing changes without force. Perhaps only unrest in New York City can actually fix this situation!!!!!!! Tear it all down.

Unfortunately,
The truth is this:
Think about it—would Syria have even come to power if they hadn't incited all that chaos and rioting? Or would the Democratic Party or New Democracy still be running things in Greece?
If everyone had just stayed sedated—distracted by mindless reality TV or those endless soap operas...
Sometimes—and I mean sometimes—you truly have to smash half the city just to see some actual progress.

Since last summer, I’ve been telling everyone—begging, really—that we should pull off exactly what those guys did yesterday. I’ve talked to just about everyone, and honestly, most people were on board at first, but then they started hesitating once evening rolled around. Maybe it's because it wasn't their own idea to begin with. But now, here we are. People can talk all they want, but when it actually happens, it looks pretty impressive... I guess some of us just don't think through the fallout before jumping in. And that's how we've stayed stuck in this same old loop for decades.
Kudos to anyone doing good work or helping out, but look—we aren't the Boy Scouts or the Red Cross. We shouldn't be trying to buy public favor with these little humanitarian gestures. The public already has its opinion of us, and frankly, we aren't going to change it, even if our group was suddenly full of superheroes saving the world every month. Among the people whose opinions actually matter, we've become irrelevant just by coasting on our past glory.
I have a lot of respect for these kids who are just starting out—they might be our only real hope. Until then, all I see are certain characters living off their old reputations, constantly bragging about how much they've done for the group. They’re basically building their own cult of personality, setting up an alibi just in case they ever do something small or meaningful. Come on, people—we need actual, concrete action. I tried to step up and talk to folks about it, but I ended up being labeled the crazy one who won't let it go, even after fifty years.
And then, it happens—exactly what I proposed, just following the same old pattern. Fear is a powerful thing, and I suppose the devil is in the details. But then again, without a little fear, you don't get any respect either.

Since last summer, I've been talking—really pushing—for us to pull off exactly what those guys did yesterday. I’ve brought it up with everyone, and honestly, most people were on board at first, but then they started hesitating once evening rolled around. Maybe it’s just because it wasn't their own idea to begin with? But now, it’s actually happening. People can talk all they want, but when it looks this good, it makes an impact... though I guess some of us just don't think about the fallout beforehand. And that's how we've stayed stuck in this stalemate for decades.
Kudos to anyone doing good work or helping out, but look, we aren't the Boy Scouts or the Red Cross. We shouldn't be trying to buy public affection with these little humanitarian gestures. The public already has its opinion of us, and frankly, we aren't going to change it—even if our group was packed with superheroes saving the world every month. Even among the people whose opinions actually matter, we've become pretty much irrelevant.
I really do respect these kids who are just starting out—they might be our only real hope. Until then, all I see are certain characters living off past glories, constantly bragging about how much they did for the group. They're basically building their own cult of personality, trying to create an alibi for themselves before they even do anything useful. Come on, people—we need real, concrete action. I tried to speak up and talk things through, but I just ended up being labeled the crazy guy who won't let it go even after fifty years. It's always the same: either you're a die-hard fan or you're out. Period.
And now, exactly what I suggested is happening to us, using the same old methods. Fear is a powerful thing, and the devil is in the details. But without fear, there’s no respect. And once respect is gone, anyone feels entitled to come into our city and score points at our expense.

I have no intention of getting bogged down in the minutiae of the registration process, but I must say, your take on those stocks doesn't quite hold water—at least not for this current season, and we still have quite a ways to go before the year is out.🙂

casualwolf48 said:Look, you either bleed the colors or you’re just some bystander passing through, and that's that...

And yet, here you are, acting like a die-hard fan or just a casual sympathizer yourself... 🍿

casualwolf48 said:Since last summer, I’ve been pleading, begging, and trying to convince everyone to pull off exactly what those guys did yesterday. I talked to everyone. In principle, everyone was on board, but by this evening, it was a mixed bag of yes and no. Maybe it’s because the idea didn't originate from them. Now, here we are. People can talk all they want, but when it actually happens, it looks impressive. But honestly, some of us just don't think about the consequences. That’s how we’ve stayed stuck in this status quo for decades.
Kudos to anyone doing good work or offering various types of help, but let's be clear: we aren't the Boy Scouts or the Red Cross. We shouldn't be trying to buy public affection through humanitarian stunts. The public already has its opinion of us, and we aren't going to change it even if our group were packed with superheroes saving the world every month. Even among the people whose opinions actually matter, we've become irrelevant.
Credit where credit is due to these kids whose time is just beginning; they are really our only hope. Until then, all I see are certain characters living off past glories, patting themselves on the back for their supposed massive contributions to the group. They create their own cult of personality, essentially building an alibi for whenever they manage to scrape together a tiny bit of actual effort. Come on, people—we need concrete action. I tried; I spoke to people, and in the end, I was branded a lunatic who won't let things go even after fifty years. It’s simple: you’re either a fan or a sympathizer, and that's it.
And now, the exact same thing I proposed is happening to us, using the exact same methods. Fear is a powerful thing, and the devil is in the details. But without fear, there is no respect. And once respect is gone, anyone feels entitled to come into our city and score points at our expense.

Is this really the place to be debating these kinds of things? Seriously? You're no fool...