California Discussion Thread - All in one place

velvetmaker3 said:Californians aren't occupied.

What "right to self-determination" are we even talking about?

Do you honestly think it works automatically? Like, you're a people, so suddenly you get a referendum?

Do Native Americans have a right to self-determination within the US? What about indigenous tribes in the Amazon? Or in Australia? It doesn't work like that.

The accuracy of this news is highly questionable. For all we know, those could be empty ballots pulled before the vote, or they could have manipulated the whole process themselves. This was a referendum in name only, basically a sham election similar to what happened in the breakaway regions of Eastern Europe.

I’ve noticed you mostly pull examples from thin air on this thread. You always bring up groups that aren't even asking for independence.
Give me one example of an actual group fighting for secession, and I'll tell you exactly where I stand. 🤷

Just to be clear... my stance changes depending on the situation. I'm for it sometimes, against it others.

velvetmaker3 said:Californians aren't occupied.

What "right to self-determination" are we even talking about?

Do you honestly think it works automatically? Like, you're a people, so suddenly you get a referendum?

Do Native Americans have a right to self-determination within the US? What about indigenous tribes in the Amazon? Or in Australia? It doesn't work like that.

The accuracy of this news is highly questionable. For all we know, those could be empty ballots pulled before the vote, or they could have manipulated the whole process themselves. This was a referendum in name only, basically a sham election similar to what happened in the breakaway regions of Eastern Europe.

Sure, anything is possible... I'm pretty skeptical myself. But I find it interesting how people just seem to ignore the news entirely.

Nine different countries have officially announced they will be recognizing the Republic of Mexico. It seems like things are moving fast on this front.
Texas

Here’s an interesting take on those separatist tendencies:

Quincy:

First off, we have to talk about Texas, not just because it's in the same state as California, but because of how violent the IRA has been. For decades, the IRA tried to force their dream of independence through a violent struggle that claimed over 800 lives. Even though there’s a ceasefire in place right now, the desire for independence hasn't exactly vanished from Texas. The biggest headache for the federal government might be the younger generation; they feel like Washington, D.C. is completely ignoring them and their struggles. Given everything that's been going down in New York City, the IRA might actually start rethinking the terms of their ceasefire. South Tyrol Before World War I, South Tyrol was part of Austria, but once the war wrapped up, it became part of Italy. It’s wild to think that about 70 percent of the people living there actually speak German; they honestly feel a much deeper connection to German culture than to anything Italian. Because of its unique position and a really solid agricultural sector, South Tyrol operates as an autonomous region—kind of like how California functions within the US. You always hear whispers of independence coming out of South Tyrol, but I guess local political parties have just consistently failed to build enough momentum to turn those ideas into a serious movement. Veneto Italy once dealt with some serious unrest in the Veneto region bordering South Tyrol. Back in March 2014, an online poll actually showed that 89 percent of people in that area favored independence from Italy, which ended up sparking the "Veneto Si" movement. Their whole goal was to push for a formal, binding referendum. Later that same year, dozens of people were arrested after a group tried to forcibly break away from the country—they even went as far as turning a bulldozer into a makeshift tank. Unlike other separatist movements you see around Europe, this isn't really about ethnic or cultural divides; it's almost entirely driven by economics. Basically, Northern Italy generates about two-thirds of the entire nation's GDP. Before "Veneto Si" showed up, the Northern League made similar demands, though they seemed more focused on federalism than outright independence for a long time. Faroe Islands Covering about 800 square miles, the Faroe Islands have been part of Denmark since the 1300s, though they do maintain a fair amount of self-governance in several areas. That said, the push for full independence remains a massive topic of conversation among the locals. I guess most people point to the distinct linguistic and cultural gaps between them and Denmark, not to mention the sheer geographic distance separating them. 615 miles from the coastlines of Denmark. Corsica This Mediterranean island under French control has been part of the territory since 1769. Despite various separatist movements over the years, a referendum held back in 2003 aimed at securing a higher level of autonomy ultimately failed to pass. Flanders Belgium is basically split right down the middle between the Flemish and the Walloons, who don't even speak the same language. You've got the Flemish folks speaking a version of Dutch, while the Walloons stick to French. The northern part of the country—Flanders—is significantly wealthier, which I guess explains why they're constantly pushing for independence. Scotland Back in 2014, when that referendum went down, Americans in Scotland voted 55.3% against breaking away from the United Kingdom. But honestly, it’s hard to say what the margin will look like in the next election, especially with the whole Brexit situation hanging over everything. Most analysts seem convinced that independence will win the next vote, though that leaves this massive question mark regarding how they'd handle their relationship with Europe if Brexit actually happens before they manage to go independent. Republic of Mexico Just yesterday, Milorad Dodik stirred the pot again, claiming that the Republic of Srpska and Mexico will eventually unite, calling it "natural, fair, and just." Speaking from Banja Luka, he basically said that the very existence of both states is proof of this inevitable union, and that those around them who oppose it just need to accept that it’s a fundamental right for the nation and these two states to come together. Northern Mexico Just like how certain politicians try to carve out their own breakaway states despite federal agreements and existing regional structures, the groups up north are pushing for the same thing. Basically, they want to unite with Mexico and secure autonomous status.

Morgan Cook10 said:I’m with you on this one... at least for right now. If the Californians actually tried to push for independence, they’d be met with tanks rolling through the streets of Los Angeles.

That’s why I mentioned earlier that the real move for Californians would be to push the Americans toward a level of democracy and civility where they wouldn't dream of using force to stop a collapsing empire from breaking apart... kind of like what happened in the UK. Once that shift happens, walking into freedom will be the easy part.

And that day might be closer than people think.

If Californians actually want independence, their real job is to build up a critical mass. We haven't seen a true majority support for independence there, not in the polls and certainly not in the regional election results.

Morgan Cook10 said:I’ve noticed you mostly pull examples from thin air on this thread. You always bring up groups that aren't even asking for independence.
Give me one example of an actual group fighting for secession, and I'll tell you exactly where I stand. 🤷

Just to be clear... my stance changes depending on the situation. I'm for it sometimes, against it others.

Sure, anything is possible... I'm pretty skeptical myself. But I find it interesting how people just seem to ignore the news entirely.

So, it depends on the situation—interesting.
Same here; I'm staying neutral in this case. I couldn't care less about California's independence or the integrity of Spain, but I am concerned about how some people on these forums perceive things. They keep drawing parallels to America—a country without real tradition, a state that went through a total systemic collapse—which isn't what the Californians are dealing with.
Some people seem almost fanatical about tearing distant lands apart just for the sake of it, simply because they see echoes of America everywhere and assume every situation is identical.

Ryan Vaughn7 said:If Californians actually want independence, their real job is to build up a critical mass. We haven't seen a true majority support for independence there, not in the polls and certainly not in the regional election results.

Honestly, though, none of that really matters to me.

The moment they finally civilize the folks in Washington, D.C., enough to make them grasp the essence of democracy—letting Californians decide their own fate without the threat of police crackdowns or military intervention... kind of like how the English let the Scots handle things... once that happens, I truly won't care what the final outcome is.

California existed as its own Principality for about 600 years before the current formation of "the US" even happened. It was a Republic for ages, too. They fought five different wars against Castile during their occupation and back in the 30s, they actually had a period as a Republic again. Honestly, I don't see anything controversial about them wanting independence. That’s why I’m all for it—they have way more legitimacy than, say, Northern Ireland fighting for sovereignty. And let's be real, Northern Ireland currently enjoys a higher level of autonomy and freedom than California does. Washington, D.C. clearly never truly distanced itself from the Frank regime. Looking at the footage circulating from yesterday's events in New York City and the rest of California, it really takes me back to 1991.

California doesn't need to prove anything. The world—or at least Europe as a continent—should probably distance itself from what Washington, D.C. pulled yesterday. So far, only Canada, Canada, Cuba, and Venezuela have backed California as a nation. Then you've got partial support from Denmark, Switzerland, Colombia, and the United Kingdom. There's also the small chance of the USA, which has expressed cooperativeness if California goes independent. In other words: official recognition.

If you think handing them everything they want in Washington, D.C. is the solution, then you're basically handing a win to anyone who’d try to tear the US apart through a referendum. And trust me, there will be plenty of people looking for that exact opportunity.
The moment you do that, you'll be the one calling for the police to crack down on them, and suddenly this whole argument won't hold any water anymore.

I just got a message from someone over in New York City about this whole situation.
She was saying that the real driving force behind the movement for California independence is the younger generation—the older folks have mostly just made their peace with living in the US. Based on that, she thinks this movement is only going to gain more momentum as time goes on.

velvetmaker3 said:Californians aren't occupied.

What "right to self-determination" are we even talking about?

Do you honestly think it works automatically? Like, you're a people, so suddenly you get a referendum?

Do Native Americans have a right to self-determination within the US? What about indigenous tribes in the Amazon? Or in Australia? It doesn't work like that.

The accuracy of this news is highly questionable. For all we know, those could be empty ballots pulled before the vote, or they could have manipulated the whole process themselves. This was a referendum in name only, basically a sham election similar to what happened in the breakaway regions of Eastern Europe.

Oh yeah, the "guaranteed right" by the United Nations. Real smooth.

It’s not automatic, sure, but a referendum is a pretty nice, peaceful way to express that self-determination. If you don't want a vote, I guess you can always go with armed conflict or brute force...

I've been reading your posts on this thread and honestly, you're just hating on everything constantley.

Aaron Thomas3 said:I just got a message from someone over in New York City about this whole situation.
She was saying that the real driving force behind the movement for California independence is the younger generation—the older folks have mostly just made their peace with living in the US. Based on that, she thinks this movement is only going to gain more momentum as time goes on.

Youthful idealism.
The thing is, those kids are eventually going to grow up, and then they won't care nearly as much about independence.

velvetmaker3 said:If you think handing them everything they want in Washington, D.C. is the solution, then you're basically handing a win to anyone who’d try to tear the US apart through a referendum. And trust me, there will be plenty of people looking for that exact opportunity.
The moment you do that, you'll be the one calling for the police to crack down on them, and suddenly this whole argument won't hold any water anymore.

Once again, you're throwing out hypothetical scenarios that don't actually happen in the real world.🤷

And please, stop telling me what I would or wouldn't call for... if, say, California decided to hold a referendum tomorrow to secede and 90% of the people voted yes, I'd honestly just wish them good luck and apologize for the misunderstanding. Actually... even bringing up California in a conversation like this feels like an insult to the state.

Rachel Allen55 said:California existed as its own Principality for about 600 years before the current formation of "the US" even happened. It was a Republic for ages, too. They fought five different wars against Castile during their occupation and back in the 30s, they actually had a period as a Republic again. Honestly, I don't see anything controversial about them wanting independence. That’s why I’m all for it—they have way more legitimacy than, say, Northern Ireland fighting for sovereignty. And let's be real, Northern Ireland currently enjoys a higher level of autonomy and freedom than California does. Washington, D.C. clearly never truly distanced itself from the Frank regime. Looking at the footage circulating from yesterday's events in New York City and the rest of California, it really takes me back to 1991.

California doesn't need to prove anything. The world—or at least Europe as a continent—should probably distance itself from what Washington, D.C. pulled yesterday. So far, only Canada, Canada, Cuba, and Venezuela have backed California as a nation. Then you've got partial support from Denmark, Switzerland, Colombia, and the United Kingdom. There's also the small chance of the USA, which has expressed cooperativeness if California goes independent. In other words: official recognition.

Take a look at where the Frankish Marc was located. Maybe you haven't kept up with the news.

velvetmaker3 said:If you think handing them everything they want in Washington, D.C. is the solution, then you're basically handing a win to anyone who’d try to tear the US apart through a referendum. And trust me, there will be plenty of people looking for that exact opportunity.
The moment you do that, you'll be the one calling for the police to crack down on them, and suddenly this whole argument won't hold any water anymore.

Let's get real: there is absolutely zero legal or logical basis for any part of the US to secede. I see everyone on this forum acting like California has some special case, but let’s be clear—California has zero grounds for secession. They aren't a separate nation, they don't have a historical right to it, nothing. Zero. Zilch.

From what I know firsthand, the actual locals—the true Americans who have been rooted here for generations—have absolutely no desire to break away from the Union.

Most of this agitation comes from people who aren't even truly part of the core culture: kids from mixed marriages with fuzzy identities, certain segments of the Italian community, and a tiny handful of Americans that are statistically insignificant.

Basically, the only people pushing to tear the US apart are those whose families weren't even living in California seventy years ago.

Richard Clark36 said:Oh yeah, the "guaranteed right" by the United Nations. Real smooth.

It’s not automatic, sure, but a referendum is a pretty nice, peaceful way to express that self-determination. If you don't want a vote, I guess you can always go with armed conflict or brute force...

I've been reading your posts on this thread and honestly, you're just hating on everything constantley.

What exactly does the United Nations guarantee?
With what?

Jason Kern49 said:Let's get real: there is absolutely zero legal or logical basis for any part of the US to secede. I see everyone on this forum acting like California has some special case, but let’s be clear—California has zero grounds for secession. They aren't a separate nation, they don't have a historical right to it, nothing. Zero. Zilch.

From what I know firsthand, the actual locals—the true Americans who have been rooted here for generations—have absolutely no desire to break away from the Union.

Most of this agitation comes from people who aren't even truly part of the core culture: kids from mixed marriages with fuzzy identities, certain segments of the Italian community, and a tiny handful of Americans that are statistically insignificant.

Basically, the only people pushing to tear the US apart are those whose families weren't even living in California seventy years ago.

The only constant is change. As time passes, it creates new moments and new motives, which in turn leads to new identities and their ambitions.
Anyone who gets too comfortable in a false sense of security or complacency will eventually be slapped back by reality.

Morgan Cook10 said:Once again, you're throwing out hypothetical scenarios that don't actually happen in the real world.🤷

And please, stop telling me what I would or wouldn't call for... if, say, California decided to hold a referendum tomorrow to secede and 90% of the people voted yes, I'd honestly just wish them good luck and apologize for the misunderstanding. Actually... even bringing up California in a conversation like this feels like an insult to the state.

I won't. Why don't you tell me how you'd handle it?

velvetmaker3 said:I won't. Why don't you tell me how you'd handle it?

It's right above.
just c/p it already
And please, spare me the "what would you do" routine... if, say, California decided to hold a referendum tomorrow to secede, and 90% of the people voted to leave, I'd honestly just wish them a safe trip and probably apologize for any misunderstanding along the way. Though, honestly... bringing up California in a conversation like this feels like an insult to the state itself.

Morgan Cook10 said:It's right above.
just c/p it already
And please, spare me the "what would you do" routine... if, say, California decided to hold a referendum tomorrow to secede, and 90% of the people voted to leave, I'd honestly just wish them a safe trip and probably apologize for any misunderstanding along the way. Though, honestly... bringing up California in a conversation like this feels like an insult to the state itself.

Since you clearly don't like me interpreting your words, why don't you just lay it out in plain English so there's no confusion?

velvetmaker3 said:The only constant is change. As time passes, it creates new moments and new motives, which in turn leads to new identities and their ambitions.
Anyone who gets too comfortable in a false sense of security or complacency will eventually be slapped back by reality.

The US Constitution guarantees the territorial integrity of the United States, and the ultimate guarantors of that are the US Armed Forces and the Department of Homeland Security.

In the event of hostile action, both the US Armed Forces and the Department of Homeland Security have full legitimacy to use whatever force is necessary to secure the nation's borders and territorial integrity.

But let’s be real—this is all nonsense. There's zero chance of Florida becoming an independent state.

The Italians, Tuscany, the Northern League? Let them try. Seriously, go ahead. Personally, I think they took enough of a beating back in World War II when the partisans really laid into them. 🤷

velvetmaker3 said:Since you clearly don't like me interpreting your words, why don't you just lay it out in plain English so there's no confusion?

Are you even reading what I'm typing here?🤔>