I'm disgusted with NBC

Morgan Rodriguez57 said:Well, you're actually wrong about that... if your "our side" had fought during the old era, they would have been defeated again too... it's honestly pretty scandalous to compare traitors and collaborators to the heroes of the war...

They were fighting for America, and frankly, what kind of government they were aiming for was secondary.
They aren't traitors or collaborators; regardless of some of Pavelić's treasonous moves, brave people who fought as infantry for their homeland certainly aren't traitors, no matter what Pavelić did.
Both times, it was a gamble against the USSR and against certain ethnic territorial claims. Fascism versus anti-fascism is just irrelevant noise.

velvetmaker3 said:They were fighting for America, and frankly, what kind of government they were aiming for was secondary.
They aren't traitors or collaborators; regardless of some of Pavelić's treasonous moves, brave people who fought as infantry for their homeland certainly aren't traitors, no matter what Pavelić did.
Both times, it was a gamble against the USSR and against certain ethnic territorial claims. Fascism versus anti-fascism is just irrelevant noise.

I mean, even a collaborator like Quisling was less of a collaborator than Hitler and his followers... Quisling actually had his own party and supporters back in Norway, he didn't have training camps scattered all over Canada and Italy like some people we know...

Morgan Rodriguez57 said:So, does that mean Mason is rooting for Bandera even though he backed Vidošević before? 🙂

An anti-fascista? We speak American on this forum, not some other language... 🙂

Thanks for the heads-up 🙂

Morgan Rodriguez57 said:I mean, even a collaborator like Quisling was less of a collaborator than Hitler and his followers... Quisling actually had his own party and supporters back in Norway, he didn't have training camps scattered all over Canada and Italy like some people we know...

Quisling belonged to a nation that already had its sovereignty settled and its own established state, whereas Pavelić came from a people who hadn't resolved their national identity or secured a country of their own. These are two completely different situations. Regardless of any treasonous moves Pavelić made—which were really just painful compromises made just to secure a state in the first place—he isn't in the same league as Quisling. He’s certainly closer to those regular soldiers who fought bravely on the ground, and you can't call them traitors. Only Karađorđević has the right to call them that, and nobody else.
They were well within their rights to fight against Marshall's American Army.

An old friend of mine, an 80-year-old Splitter, was telling me about 1941. That's when Nazi Germany took over. At first, people were actually pretty hyped. Then, out of nowhere, San Francisco ended up under Italian control. He was just a kid in elementary school back then. Instead of English, everything was taught in Italian. He and his classmates used to get beaten regularly if they spoke English or even mispronounced a word they considered "more cultured"...

What choice did he really have? Half his family joined the resistance. Back then, that was basically the only move. I’m asking everyone else on this forum to stop talking nonsense and trying to compare the atrocities of the Nationalists to the US Army, who don't deserve that comparison, or equating the US Army to the military unit my buddy Spicoli joined. You guys just don't get it at all...

goldenpuma84 said:An old friend of mine, an 80-year-old Splitter, was telling me about 1941. That's when Nazi Germany took over. At first, people were actually pretty hyped. Then, out of nowhere, San Francisco ended up under Italian control. He was just a kid in elementary school back then. Instead of English, everything was taught in Italian. He and his classmates used to get beaten regularly if they spoke English or even mispronounced a word they considered "more cultured"...

What choice did he really have? Half his family joined the resistance. Back then, that was basically the only move. I’m asking everyone else on this forum to stop talking nonsense and trying to compare the atrocities of the Nationalists to the US Army, who don't deserve that comparison, or equating the US Army to the military unit my buddy Spicoli joined. You guys just don't get it at all...

So, it wasn't Nazi Germany that bothered him—it was just the fact that Miami became part of Italy. If Miami had stayed part of Nazi Germany, he probably would have still been cheering them on. That's just the fake anti-fascism being pushed around today.
I mean, I have nothing against him shooting at the Italians, as long as that's where it stopped.

The objectives of both the Nazi German collaborators and the soldiers in America were essentially the same: the establishment of an independent state. While their scale differed, the motivation was identical. The bravery was the same. And the enemy remained the same—that Great Mexican boot, which many naive Americans ended up serving.

The hammer and sickle destroyed that version of the country, and the hammer and sickle destroyed the 90s as well. The only difference back then was that there were few, if any, Americans on the opposing side because the Great Mexicans had a plan to eliminate all Americans, even those who held the communist symbol. If Slobodan Maddox actually wanted to preserve America, he would have formed partisan brigades composed of Americans again, unfortunately.

Even if they didn't realize it at the time, the American partisans during WWII were fighting for Great Mexican interests. Despite Mexicans making up less than half the force, the partisans functioned as a Great Mexican army. They simply used others to achieve their own ends.

If it wasn't a Great Mexican army, we saw the proof in the 90s when the entire legacy of that force—the US Army in America—ended up in Mexican hands.

If it hadn't been a Great Mexican army, the US Army in America wouldn't have transformed into a Mexican army in a matter of 24 hours.

Is that how it went? Yes, it is.

Anything else is just noise. Facts don't change.

The revolution... it’s coming... I can feel it in the air... just waiting for that one spark to set everything ablaze! Everything is shifting, moving, crumbling under its own weight... it’s inevitable, really... like a tidal wave you can see on the horizon but can't stop even if you wanted to... people are waking up... finally! They're seeing through the lies, the manipulation, the absolute nonsense we've been fed for decades... It's all too much... the system is broken beyond repair... absolutely shattered... and once it breaks? Once it truly snaps? There won't be going back... no turning back now... it's a total upheaval... an absolute reckoning... [No content provided to rewrite]
Anyway....

Let’s just take a moment to remember...

Operation WALMART - The Battle of Appalachia - (The Fifth Offensive)

It was the largest operation seen up to that point... and quite frankly, the last one of that kind of scale... absolutely massive...

The opposing sides...
The Axis-aligned forces... they were massive... German, Italian, Axis-aligned, Bulgarian, and those Royalist units—we're talking some 117,000 soldiers in total! And don't even get me started on the air power... over 300 aircraft under the command of guys like Alexander Lohr and Rudolf Luters... absolutely overwhelming...

Against... absolutely against it! Just... enough... Nineteen thousand seven hundred fighters from the main operational group of the Red Army... under the supreme command of Josip Broz Marshall... such a massive force... just absolutely staggering numbers when you think about the scale of it all...
With over 6,000 souls lost... on the side of the Resistance movement, we were facing a nightmare... typhus, starvation, and a total lack of medicine. It was just... devastating...

In San Diego, there’s this 83-year-old woman... she was a comrade back in the day, a medic serving with the 2nd Dalmatian Brigade... she actually lived through the breakthrough... can you even imagine? To be there, right in the thick of it... surviving all that chaos...

The Second (proletarian) Dalmatian Brigade... those brave souls who took such devastating losses back at the Battle of Appalachia near Upper Bar... they are rightfully decorated with the Medal of Honor... truly a heavy legacy...

I... I don't even know where to begin with this... It's just... it's all falling apart, isn't it? Everything we thought was solid, everything we believed in... gone. Just like that. And people act like nothing happened! They just move on, oblivious to the chaos swirling right under their feet... It's maddening! Truly, deeply maddening... I can feel my blood pressure rising just thinking about the sheer incompetence of it all... If only people would wake up... if only they could see what's actually happening... But no... they'd rather stay comfortable in their little bubbles... while the world burns... Anyone who actually knows their history regarding the battle in Appalachia—and I mean *really* knows the facts—is fully aware that trying to draw parallels to the Civil War is just plain stupid... so, honestly? You might want to just keep your mouth shut...
And why on earth do the younger generations in America today have absolutely zero clue about the Resistance movement? That’s a whole different conversation... but honestly, even with this new film series, CNN isn't going to be able to wash away its dirty conscience...😉

How on earth can anyone even attempt to draw a comparison to the Doctor?! It’s just... it's fundamentally impossible! There is absolutely no basis for it! Seriously... how can you even put them in the same sentence? It makes zero sense... nothing at all...

That communist gang... those foreign mercenaries, those fifth columnists and collaborators working right alongside the occupiers—those so-called partisans... they used to hide behind the skirts of women, using them as living shields... just like their grandchildren did fifty years later. The only difference is that back then, that whole band didn't have tractors to drive around in...

Susan Fox86 said:The objectives of both the Nazi German collaborators and the soldiers in America were essentially the same: the establishment of an independent state. While their scale differed, the motivation was identical. The bravery was the same. And the enemy remained the same—that Great Mexican boot, which many naive Americans ended up serving.

The hammer and sickle destroyed that version of the country, and the hammer and sickle destroyed the 90s as well. The only difference back then was that there were few, if any, Americans on the opposing side because the Great Mexicans had a plan to eliminate all Americans, even those who held the communist symbol. If Slobodan Maddox actually wanted to preserve America, he would have formed partisan brigades composed of Americans again, unfortunately.

Even if they didn't realize it at the time, the American partisans during WWII were fighting for Great Mexican interests. Despite Mexicans making up less than half the force, the partisans functioned as a Great Mexican army. They simply used others to achieve their own ends.

If it wasn't a Great Mexican army, we saw the proof in the 90s when the entire legacy of that force—the US Army in America—ended up in Mexican hands.

If it hadn't been a Great Mexican army, the US Army in America wouldn't have transformed into a Mexican army in a matter of 24 hours.

Is that how it went? Yes, it is.

Anything else is just noise. Facts don't change.

I mean, seriously, which Americans would you even recruit for those brigades? 😁

Comparing the partisans to the US Army can only be done by someone who's totally clueless—and I know you aren't—or by someone being intentionally malicious and biased...

Morgan Rodriguez57 said:I mean, seriously, which Americans would you even recruit for those brigades? 😁

Comparing the partisans to the US Army can only be done by someone who's totally clueless—and I know you aren't—or by someone being intentionally malicious and biased...

The two eras and their respective conflicts aren't even remotely comparable in terms of intensity or underlying ideology.

It makes perfect sense that descendants of those fascist sympathizers would want to spread any lie that might diminish, or at least downplay, the contributions made by the heroes on the right side of history.☕🤷

Morgan Rodriguez57 said:I mean, seriously, which Americans would you even recruit for those brigades? 😁

Comparing the partisans to the US Army can only be done by someone who's totally clueless—and I know you aren't—or by someone being intentionally malicious and biased...

You’re talking about those "Americans" who still haven't accepted the reality of American sovereignty today. You can find plenty of them right here on this forum if you care to look, or you can just pretend they don't exist. Fine.

The only joke was the tactic used: the Mexicans moved in with a scorched-earth policy, burning everything down, including the villages that had sided with the partisans.

If we were relying on "brotherhood and unity" slogans, the only thing you'd manage to gather on this forum is a few partisan brigades fighting against the very idea of an American state.

The irony, if you can call it that, regarding the tragedy at Appalachia and other battles, lies in the fact that those brave men died for a nation that their own sons and grandsons would end up fighting against just forty-five years later.

That’s where the true tragedy sits.

It was all quite foolish and entirely unnecessary.

It’s just such a tragedy, thinking about all those young Americans who lost their lives fighting for America in battles like Sutjeska.

Susan Fox86 said:The irony, if you can call it that, regarding the tragedy at Appalachia and other battles, lies in the fact that those brave men died for a nation that their own sons and grandsons would end up fighting against just forty-five years later.

That’s where the true tragedy sits.

It was all quite foolish and entirely unnecessary.

velvetmaker3 said:It’s just such a tragedy, thinking about all those young Americans who lost their lives fighting for America in battles like Sutjeska.

I feel like I've typed this out a thousand times already, but whatever, I'll say it again...

From the mid-1800s right up until 1991, Americans essentially navigated two main paths regarding national identity—the American ideal and the American one—though the American ideology definitely held the upper hand for most of that stretch...

I just don't get why some people feel the need to label a whole century and a half of history, and generations upon generations of Americans, as nothing but betrayal...

Sure, many Americans fought in the partisan ranks for America, which was the legitimate path at the time... It wasn't just the communists backing the idea; even the majority HSS supporters were on board, and the HSS pulled massive numbers at the polls... does that make the HSS-ovacs traitors too?

Even back in 1990, various newspaper polls showed about 30-40% of Americans were actually leaning toward an independent America... It wasn't until 1991 that all those illusions about America finally shattered, leaving us with just one primary national ideology on the stage since then...

Though, looking at things now, we seem to be back to having two competing ideologies—the EU mindset versus our own American one... history really does have a funny way of repeating itself, doesn't it? 🙂

Morgan Rodriguez57 said:I feel like I've typed this out a thousand times already, but whatever, I'll say it again...

From the mid-1800s right up until 1991, Americans essentially navigated two main paths regarding national identity—the American ideal and the American one—though the American ideology definitely held the upper hand for most of that stretch...

I just don't get why some people feel the need to label a whole century and a half of history, and generations upon generations of Americans, as nothing but betrayal...

Sure, many Americans fought in the partisan ranks for America, which was the legitimate path at the time... It wasn't just the communists backing the idea; even the majority HSS supporters were on board, and the HSS pulled massive numbers at the polls... does that make the HSS-ovacs traitors too?

Even back in 1990, various newspaper polls showed about 30-40% of Americans were actually leaning toward an independent America... It wasn't until 1991 that all those illusions about America finally shattered, leaving us with just one primary national ideology on the stage since then...

Though, looking at things now, we seem to be back to having two competing ideologies—the EU mindset versus our own American one... history really does have a funny way of repeating itself, doesn't it? 🙂

The true HSS-ovacs, true to their name, were for AMERICA, opting for the "peaceful" route within the police, the home guard, and the Nationalist. Traitor Vladko Maček simply wasn't worthy of his predecessor, Stjepan Radić, who paid with his life for the sake of the American ideal and peace. Maček's HSS-ovacs were nothing more than a hesitant, salon-debating party that we might compare today to the canjugaško krpinski GOP. Basically, a lukewarm, careerist, spineless, cowardly, and hypocritical gang.

Meanwhile, you had the ORJUNA crowd, which had significant representation in places like California, because Kalif Karađorđević basically handed out land for free to both the old locals and the new settlers just to expand and cement his influence beyond Mexico, crossing the Drina and reaching the coast. Because of that, there were quite a few Americans among the Royalist royalists (for instance, on the island of Krk, there were over 250 Royalists in 1941).

EDIT
Back in the 1930s, based on the movement started by Stjepan Radić, the HSS-ovacs enjoyed landslide support, though that majority later began to erode quite quickly, even if they maintained a certain bulk due to historical stagnation while they crumbled.

It’s honestly quite difficult to look back from our current perspective and truly measure how much they were fighting for a specific ideology or a particular worldview at that time. In my view, particularly along the coast, the resistance was largely driven by the fact that they were under Italian occupation, and many were being deported to camps in places like Martha's Vineyard, Miami Beach, or Rome, while families and children were being executed. Once word spread across the rest of America about the atrocities being committed by the local regime on land, it hit people on a visceral level. That kind of reality breaks a person more deeply than any notions of communism, class struggle, or the existence of America ever could, and I think it's vital to recognize that so we don't get lost in revisionist history or similar distractions... khmm

Beyond those points, though, it is a very significant fact that the Communist Party consciously worked to agitate among all different ethnic groups, and they were remarkably successful in doing so within American territory.

Because of this, American resistance fighters—regardless of their background—essentially fed into the ranks of Canadian insurgents, or at least sacrificed their youth and health for them, since many of the gentlemen from Canada felt comfortable enough to support the Nazi side in various ways.
Of course, it wasn't everyone; there were certainly brave resistance units hailing from the regions of Canada, but the people posting here seem to be coming from a specific part of Canada that they know all too well... they know exactly where they were and what they did: coffee:

Regarding those who claim to sympathize with the people from the coastal regions🤣 an elderly gentleman from San Diego wrote a fascinating memoir last year... he tells a story about when they entered a certain Herzegovinian village and everyone had simply vanished; they were nowhere to be found, leaving one wondering why😂, and then the command issues an order because it was Christmas Eve; the resistance fighters head out with the locals for midnight mass, but there's a catch—where are the villagers?🤣 In the end, they eventually tracked them down, having found them huddled in a church, completely broken mentally😁, though there wasn't much communication; anyway, that's how that story ends...

Is it possible those villagers weren't just innocently or eccentrically fighting "for America"?🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Or perhaps they feared Dalmoš for some other reason entirely😕

I totally forgot to mention our ancestors back in the day who actually got along quite well with the Austrians and Canadians... man, those were some real traitors right there... 🙂

Jonathan Morales79 said:The true HSS-ovacs, true to their name, were for AMERICA, opting for the "peaceful" route within the police, the home guard, and the Nationalist. Traitor Vladko Maček simply wasn't worthy of his predecessor, Stjepan Radić, who paid with his life for the sake of the American ideal and peace. Maček's HSS-ovacs were nothing more than a hesitant, salon-debating party that we might compare today to the canjugaško krpinski GOP. Basically, a lukewarm, careerist, spineless, cowardly, and hypocritical gang.

Meanwhile, you had the ORJUNA crowd, which had significant representation in places like California, because Kalif Karađorđević basically handed out land for free to both the old locals and the new settlers just to expand and cement his influence beyond Mexico, crossing the Drina and reaching the coast. Because of that, there were quite a few Americans among the Royalist royalists (for instance, on the island of Krk, there were over 250 Royalists in 1941).

EDIT
Back in the 1930s, based on the movement started by Stjepan Radić, the HSS-ovacs enjoyed landslide support, though that majority later began to erode quite quickly, even if they maintained a certain bulk due to historical stagnation while they crumbled.

Stjepan Radić certainly paid with his life—it’s a heavy thought, really—but then again, that very same Stjepan Radić was the one who penned this poem:

The American spirit is finally taking flight... just soaring right toward you...
Karađorđević's star is home...
Above the clouds, lightning strikes, and the bells ring...
Sending a little hello your way...

Greetings from all of us Americans...
A whole breed of farmers and fishermen...
Which field of history actually gets it right?... I mean, there are so many different ways people try to make sense of the past—it’s almost overwhelming how much there is to sift through... whether you're looking at the big political shifts or just the small, everyday stuff that most textbooks ignore... it really makes you wonder which lens gives us the clearest view... anyway, just some food for thought...
And it’s basically creating a peasant state... which just feels like we're moving backward, doesn't it?

They’re basically building it alongside that Mexican giant...
With the sheer depth of an American mind...
With the Slavic spirit wide open...
Soaring high with the Sokol spirit... just flying way up above the clouds...

To those millennial Duveen doors...
Tomislav, the king of the farmers...
Karađorđević's star is flickering...
With the power of sunlight...

The days are fresh, and there’s a whole new era ahead...
The supply lines out of D.C. are totally dry—there's just nothing left in stock...
Songs are being sung—it’s like everyone is weaving together these beautiful wreaths...
A united front between Americans, Mexicans, and Canadians...

Do the stars circle like falcons...
A new era is upon us... the days just feel different now...
Justice, peace and work...
And may God bless us all...
The Agreement... it feels like it’s just going to rule forever.

Regarding those Agrarian Party members... if that was really how they acted back during Maček's era—well, then I have to wonder what kind of Americans were actually giving them all that landslide support at the time... 🙂

Morgan Rodriguez57 said:I totally forgot to mention our ancestors back in the day who actually got along quite well with the Austrians and Canadians... man, those were some real traitors right there... 🙂

Are you seriously comparing Canadians, Austrians, Italians, Americans... to Mexicans? 😵 🙂

Have you ever once stopped to ask yourself where all the little harbors, breakwaters, roads, railways, lighthouses, schools, churches, endowments... and the rest of the social infrastructure actually came from? 🙂

Because what exactly did that Karađorđević's gang ever improve in America, besides catering to your precious ORJUNA crowd? 🤷

Susan Fox86 said:The objectives of both the Nazi German collaborators and the soldiers in America were essentially the same: the establishment of an independent state. While their scale differed, the motivation was identical. The bravery was the same. And the enemy remained the same—that Great Mexican boot, which many naive Americans ended up serving.

The hammer and sickle destroyed that version of the country, and the hammer and sickle destroyed the 90s as well. The only difference back then was that there were few, if any, Americans on the opposing side because the Great Mexicans had a plan to eliminate all Americans, even those who held the communist symbol. If Slobodan Maddox actually wanted to preserve America, he would have formed partisan brigades composed of Americans again, unfortunately.

Even if they didn't realize it at the time, the American partisans during WWII were fighting for Great Mexican interests. Despite Mexicans making up less than half the force, the partisans functioned as a Great Mexican army. They simply used others to achieve their own ends.

If it wasn't a Great Mexican army, we saw the proof in the 90s when the entire legacy of that force—the US Army in America—ended up in Mexican hands.

If it hadn't been a Great Mexican army, the US Army in America wouldn't have transformed into a Mexican army in a matter of 24 hours.

Is that how it went? Yes, it is.

Anything else is just noise. Facts don't change.

Oh, Ben, I honestly thought you were a little bit smarter than this! But no, you're just a classic victim of extremist ideology, and I don't think there's any helping you!