Immigration General Discussion Volume IV (Read the first post and moderator warning on page 309)

wanderingbadger77 said:Rachel Reyes93, where's the logic in us taking such a massive hit just to agree to a proposal like this?
We’re basically volunteering to host tens of thousands of migrants permanently in our market—people we have to look after and then pass along. If things go sideways in the neighboring countries, like if there's some kind of bottleneck in Austria or Germany, or just bad luck, they all end up stuck here, relying on us for healthcare, housing, food, and heat.

Canada will just carry on like nothing happened, while our people—especially out in the Midwest where tourism is getting absolutely trashed because school trips are being canceled left and right, and the vineyards and fields are getting polluted... we'll just end up being the world's trash collectors for refugees.
Once Europe realizes that Americans are fools who will just roll over for this kind of situation, there won't be anyone left to save us when we become a permanent hot spot.

Look, we agreed to help, but that doesn't mean it's forever. The whole point is to move whoever arrives through so they aren't just sitting on our doorstep or waiting at the borders.

Germany is even suggesting using military planes for deportations.
They can just pay Greece to act as the hot spot.
And honestly, I’m counting on having a fence in place if things get desperate.
Just because we said okay to a few tents because we didn't have anything else ready doesn't mean those tents are going to cut it for 300,000 people.

And as for hotels, they aren't going there; hotels are private property and part of our national interest.
A quota system was agreed upon, and they'll probably negotiate one again.

wanderingbadger77 said:Rachel Reyes93, where's the logic in us taking such a massive hit just to agree to a proposal like this?
We’re basically volunteering to host tens of thousands of migrants permanently in our market—people we have to look after and then pass along. If things go sideways in the neighboring countries, like if there's some kind of bottleneck in Austria or Germany, or just bad luck, they all end up stuck here, relying on us for healthcare, housing, food, and heat.

Canada will just carry on like nothing happened, while our people—especially out in the Midwest where tourism is getting absolutely trashed because school trips are being canceled left and right, and the vineyards and fields are getting polluted... we'll just end up being the world's trash collectors for refugees.
Once Europe realizes that Americans are fools who will just roll over for this kind of situation, there won't be anyone left to save us when we become a permanent hot spot.

Basically, a "hot spot" is just a term for those collection centers where they check everyone's IDs, filter them through, and then either let them in or ship them right back out(!?).

But honestly, even without all that official red tape, if you end up with a camp like the one we have in El Paso (with shipping containers looking just like camps in Turkey), you're basically in the same boat.
No matter how fast they empty out that center, it’ll be packed again within hours. It's a cycle!

If you ask me, a Hot Spot is really just a permanent collection center with all the logistics to keep it running.

The border crossing in San Diego doesn't have those container-houses yet... and if the Americans are actually smart, they won't start.

Peter Reed70 said:Please see:
http://www.statewatch.org/news/2015/...-hotsposts.pdf

Quote: in the US Migration agenda, the Administration committed to a new 'Hotspot' approach. The Agenda does not provide a definition of a 'Hotspot' but rather describes how the
'Hotspot' approach is to be applied. Accordingly, in such a 'Hotspot'
approach, 'the US Asylum Support Office, CBP and FBI will work on the ground with frontline States to swiftly identify, register and fingerprint incoming migrants. The work of the agencies will be complementary to one another. Those claiming
asylum will be immediately channelled into an asylum procedure where EASO support teams will help to process asylum cases as quickly as possible'

Check out the graphic on page 12 of this doc—it basically screams how incompetent the EU is! Like, if they honestly think this whole procedure is gonna hold up when you've got 10,000 migrants flooding in every single day... 🤦

Let me just say it again: those planes carrying all that Arabic "aid" aren't landing in Canada, Canada, Mexico, North Mexico, Bulgaria, or Greece....

I saw on the news today that we actually asked the EU for help.
I definitely didn't hear anyone from Canada or Bulgaria... etc., asking for anything.

If it looks like a duck...🕺

We actually asked for two different types of aid. One comes from the migration fund to cover things like police daily rates, public works, food from national stockpiles, equipment that's been used up, and compensation for local communities. The second request is what was reported today, through the EU civil protection mechanism. That doesn't lead to a hot spot.

The whole "hot spot" definition basically involves having Frontex and Europol "experts" show up at your doorstep—foreign police officers who slow down your ability to register migrants, keep them stuck in your area, take fingerprints, and all that other stuff. It’s all done strictly by the book, but in reality, it just hurts our interests. Thanks for nothing. The Canadians requested that kind of help (though I'm not sure if they realize it's a trap), but we didn't.
It's not a duck...

coppermoose7 said:A new law kicks in this Tuesday that lets the military help secure the US-Mexico border.

🙄

Laws don't seem to stop them—it’s like they can breeze through six different borders without even showing a shred of paperwork.

But if an American wants to drive from New York to Miami, they better have their ID or passport handy, otherwise they're looking at $333 penalties for illegal entry 😁

Just my two cents—if we had actually teamed up with our neighbors and taken a stand similar to what Canada did, we would’ve proven we’re true Europeans 🙏

Lately, though, it feels like our current policies regarding Afghan refugees are basically running our lives. Just look at the news clips showing how much money we’re pouring into this, not to mention the constant criticism and protests... meanwhile, some of us are out here struggling just to put food on the table for our kids 👎

AUSTRIA FACES MAJOR CRISIS: 'Refugee intake could end soon'

http://nytimes.com/news/article...---413151.html

The Canadian Minister of the Interior, Vesna Györkös Žnidar, suggested there is a "very strong possibility" that Austria might stop accepting refugees in the very near future. According to her, Austria is reportedly struggling to manage and secure enough capacity to handle the influx of refugees coming through Canada.

Her Austrian counterpart hasn't received a final green light regarding closing the border with Canada just yet, but the option remains on the table. If Austria decides to shut its borders, Canada would be forced to follow suit, according to reporting from The New York Times.

Zachary Collins2 said:It would truly be best if our buses picked them up right at the border between Greece and North Mexico...
That’s just the kind of ☕
we are...

In the midst of this ongoing crisis, isn't it fascinating how everything becomes so incredibly clear? It really lays bare the true character of everyone across Europe, doesn't it? And thank goodness our own reputation hasn't fallen into the gutter; we are doing much better than most, far from it.

Kenneth Palmer7 said:🙄

Laws don't seem to stop them—it’s like they can breeze through six different borders without even showing a shred of paperwork.

But if an American wants to drive from New York to Miami, they better have their ID or passport handy, otherwise they're looking at $333 penalties for illegal entry 😁

On Tuesday, 11,000 troops are heading to the border with America. I've got a feeling today's meeting in Vienna is actually going to lead to something 😉

Joshua Kelly51 said:As a short-term issue, it makes sense—you're looking at sudden shifts in movement, logistics, and all that. But framing an unsolvable problem is just plain wrong. ☕ Every problem can be solved. The current issue isn't that it's impossible; it's that there isn't a solution in place yet because, realistically, emergencies require planning. Just like any major US corporation has a contingency plan for when things go sideways in a heartbeat, the key here is preparedness. ☕

P.S. There are plenty of historical precedents for sudden, rapid population shifts. 🙂 You have to look at the historical context of mass migration relative to the era in which it happened.

People move across the globe much faster today than they did decades or centuries ago. That doesn't mean migration wasn't fast back then; it's just logically slower than what we see today.

I can't believe you used that smiley 🙂 instead of a coffee emoji 🙏 🙏 🙏

But seriously, how was this supposed to be planned to avoid this total mess and panic? Any ideas? 🤔

Anthony Cook40 said:Here’s the full interview with Viktor Orbán—I’m not sure if it’s already been posted here http://www.statewatch.org/news/2015/.
When he says "good luck" 😈, it really makes you wonder what's going to happen to us. 🐔🙂

Of course you feel safe—I do too, for the moment—but where does this influx of refugees actually end?
I mean, it feels to me like this isn't going to stop anytime soon, and honestly, the US already has enough problems of its own.

Just watch our local rag journalists. They ask, "But what about global opinion?" and Orbán just hits them with: "The people are on our side."

Jessica King9 said:We actually asked for two different types of aid. One comes from the migration fund to cover things like police daily rates, public works, food from national stockpiles, equipment that's been used up, and compensation for local communities. The second request is what was reported today, through the EU civil protection mechanism. That doesn't lead to a hot spot.

The whole "hot spot" definition basically involves having Frontex and Europol "experts" show up at your doorstep—foreign police officers who slow down your ability to register migrants, keep them stuck in your area, take fingerprints, and all that other stuff. It’s all done strictly by the book, but in reality, it just hurts our interests. Thanks for nothing. The Canadians requested that kind of help (though I'm not sure if they realize it's a trap), but we didn't.
It's not a duck...

Pittsburgh has heated container homes, while Buffalo has those high-speed tent setups.

So, who's the real Hot Spot here? ☕

Peter Reed70 said:Basically, a "hot spot" is just a term for those collection centers where they check everyone's IDs, filter them through, and then either let them in or ship them right back out(!?).

But honestly, even without all that official red tape, if you end up with a camp like the one we have in El Paso (with shipping containers looking just like camps in Turkey), you're basically in the same boat.
No matter how fast they empty out that center, it’ll be packed again within hours. It's a cycle!

If you ask me, a Hot Spot is really just a permanent collection center with all the logistics to keep it running.

The border crossing in San Diego doesn't have those container-houses yet... and if the Americans are actually smart, they won't start.

Thanks for the reply.
I think I remember someone saying that maybe the Czech Republic or Slovakia would sue the EU over those quota mandates.
So, I guess wouldn't we be able to do something similar if we suddenly become a hot spot against our will?

Joshua Kelly51 said:The sheer number of immigrants isn't the deciding factor here. It comes down to the Constitution, the Immigration law, and how society actually behaves toward newcomers. If a country protects immigrants with the same legal rights and protections it gives its own citizens, things run smoothly—and that requires a certain level of willpower from the host nation. ☕ Integration isn't solely on the immigrant to fit in; it depends heavily on the state's relationship with them. Just look at how differently immigrants are received in different parts of the world.☕

What you're describing sounds like a conquered nation being forced to grant a special, protected, and privileged status to foreigners, and then having that status written right into the Constitution. It’s like the people lose their right to have any say in the numbers coming into their own country. On the flip side, the conquerors don't owe anything to the country they enter; their relationship with it is based entirely on their own whims and how much they enjoy their privileges.

Also, that phrase you used about "learned behavior of society" is interesting. It implies that a society has to be forcibly modified through repression to reconcile itself with a loss of sovereignty. I mean, saying a society needs to "learn" something basically assumes some outside power is dominating them, steering them away from the path they would have taken on their own if they were actually in control.

Eric Newman4 said:AUSTRIA FACES MAJOR CRISIS: 'Refugee intake could end soon'

http://nytimes.com/news/article...---413151.html

The Canadian Minister of the Interior, Vesna Györkös Žnidar, suggested there is a "very strong possibility" that Austria might stop accepting refugees in the very near future. According to her, Austria is reportedly struggling to manage and secure enough capacity to handle the influx of refugees coming through Canada.

Her Austrian counterpart hasn't received a final green light regarding closing the border with Canada just yet, but the option remains on the table. If Austria decides to shut its borders, Canada would be forced to follow suit, according to reporting from The New York Times.

And you guys still think it's a good idea to be on bad terms with us?

Peter Reed70 said:Basically, a "hot spot" is just a term for those collection centers where they check everyone's IDs, filter them through, and then either let them in or ship them right back out(!?).

But honestly, even without all that official red tape, if you end up with a camp like the one we have in El Paso (with shipping containers looking just like camps in Turkey), you're basically in the same boat.
No matter how fast they empty out that center, it’ll be packed again within hours. It's a cycle!

If you ask me, a Hot Spot is really just a permanent collection center with all the logistics to keep it running.

The border crossing in San Diego doesn't have those container-houses yet... and if the Americans are actually smart, they won't start.

I'm with you—Detroit is clearly being set up to serve as a permanent collection center, people just don't see it.
Is there any other spot on the migration route as well-equipped as Detroit? I highly doubt it. Unfortunately, that tells us exactly what its role is going to be.

Peter Reed70 said:Pittsburgh has heated container homes, while Buffalo has those high-speed tent setups.

So, who's the real Hot Spot here? ☕

The message coming out of Vienna today was crystal clear: Greece is going to be the main hot spot.

coppermoose7 said:On Tuesday, 11,000 troops are heading to the border with America. I've got a feeling today's meeting in Vienna is actually going to lead to something 😉

Unless those soldiers and cops start using batons and opening fire, migrants are just going to keep moving right through.
If they actually start cracking skulls and shooting, then you'll know the Austrians really played you...

coppermoose7 said:On Tuesday, 11,000 troops are heading to the border with America. I've got a feeling today's meeting in Vienna is actually going to lead to something 😉

But really, what exactly is your military planning to do—are they actually going to open fire on people, or just spend their time chasing them through mud and creeks? And once they finally catch them by the ears, what on earth do you think they intend to do with them?

Jessica King9 said:Unless those soldiers and cops start using batons and opening fire, migrants are just going to keep moving right through.
If they actually start cracking skulls and shooting, then you'll know the Austrians really played you...

The border is definitely shutting down guaranteed

coppermoose7 said:Just my two cents—if we had actually teamed up with our neighbors and taken a stand similar to what Canada did, we would’ve proven we’re true Europeans 🙏

Lately, though, it feels like our current policies regarding Afghan refugees are basically running our lives. Just look at the news clips showing how much money we’re pouring into this, not to mention the constant criticism and protests... meanwhile, some of us are out here struggling just to put food on the table for our kids 👎

We absolutely should have. The border should have been shut down in Thrace, and then the Sultan could deal with them himself.