Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

I place my absolute, unwavering faith in nothing but Florentina, Christian, and Carl.

Robin Fox2 said:I’m not suggesting science holds all the answers. We can tackle the simple stuff, certainly, but when it comes to the truly vital questions, we’re still wandering in the dark. Perhaps somewhere out there, someone actually is watching us, looking down and thinking, "you guys really blew it; this isn't at all what I had in mind when I designed you"...

And let’s be clear, no single theory regarding the origin of everything is set in stone. Nobody actually knows what transpired; we just have our most educated guesses about how it all went down, but certainty? Hardly. If we were truly certain—as certain as we are of the chemical composition of water—we wouldn't be having these debates in the first place 😁 I am perhaps the least religious person on the planet, and I would gladly structure my entire existence around scientific principles, but being told "it just appeared" feels just as hollow as hearing "God got bored and decided to create everything."

I totally agree with all of that.

brightpilot6 said:I place my absolute, unwavering faith in nothing but Florentina, Christian, and Carl.

And Birindellija.

steelharbor9 said:I mean, it’s pretty obvious we can't label an entire population based on one single trait, right? I was just building on ZZ's point about scientists—and yeah, sure, maybe there’s a tiny fraction of a percent of scientists out there who are actually fascists in their free time. It happens, I guess.

From what I’ve seen, most scientists don't really struggle with accepting other people's traits, and they don't feel like diversity is some huge threat to their own identity or anything.

Take religious fanatics, for example. To them, the LGBTQ+ community is a problem because it challenges their idea of a "sacred" family. Their version of it, anyway. And yeah, obviously there are some scientists out there who feel the exact same way—believe it or not, every single one of them I've ever met would definitely fall into that fanatic category.

If we connect this back to that recent marriage referendum here in the States—do you really think there are 946,433 religious fanatics living in America?

Robin Fox2 said:I’m not suggesting science holds all the answers. We can tackle the simple stuff, certainly, but when it comes to the truly vital questions, we’re still wandering in the dark. Perhaps somewhere out there, someone actually is watching us, looking down and thinking, "you guys really blew it; this isn't at all what I had in mind when I designed you"...

And let’s be clear, no single theory regarding the origin of everything is set in stone. Nobody actually knows what transpired; we just have our most educated guesses about how it all went down, but certainty? Hardly. If we were truly certain—as certain as we are of the chemical composition of water—we wouldn't be having these debates in the first place 😁 I am perhaps the least religious person on the planet, and I would gladly structure my entire existence around scientific principles, but being told "it just appeared" feels just as hollow as hearing "God got bored and decided to create everything."

Of course it doesn't. If anything, the very essence of science is its admission that it lacks answers to the ultimate questions.

I find myself hoping that some higher intelligence exists, that goodness eventually finds its way back to those who do good, and that death isn't the final curtain call. But there is a distinction between hope and belief; I don't necessarily believe it, I simply hope for it.

Then there is a third, entirely separate matter: the sheer absurdity of organized religions that exploit hopes like mine, using vague narratives, empty promises, and veiled threats to maintain control over the masses.

brightpilot6 said:When I speak of religion, I’m not just referring to the sanitized, official versions we see today; I mean every iteration we’ve encountered or might encounter in the real world. I’m talking about everything from militant Christianity to militant Islam to various nationalist religions. Many of these versions do indeed peddle the idea of a blissful afterlife as a prize for taking out one's enemies.

As for Christianity, if you simply look at the Old Testament, Yahweh behaves somewhat like Sauron toward his enemies—and honestly, even toward his own people if they fail to follow his commands.

Religions—specifically those darker iterations we are discussing—tend to strike low. They prey on people who are susceptible to them (and there are plenty) by instilling a deep-seated fear of divine retribution if one fails to live up to certain standards. At the same time, the moral guidelines provided by these faiths are often nearly impossible to maintain in daily life, which creates a feedback loop where fear and internal guilt constantly amplify one another. That is the foundational step: fostering self-dissatisfaction and terror. Sometimes, that alone is enough to trigger negative social phenomena, where people try to compensate for their inner turmoil through outward aggression—some feel the need to be more "holier than thou" by persecuting anyone deemed unconventional, whether it's the LGBTQ+ community, people living outside traditional norms, or political dissidents back home. But let's go further. Occasionally, when it suits religious leaders, divine punishment is seen to fall upon others for failing to conform, even if you’re just standing by watching. This breeds a fear of "the other," which is then compounded by the fear of God. When you add a bad economy or the anxieties of globalization as catalysts, you get the kind of escalation we see today. Neither a belief in science nor being a die-hard Atletico fan tends to trigger these kinds of irrational terrors, or a fear of one's neighbor based on something as monumental as eternal life.

Nah, I can't go along with you there, ZZ. I really don't agree, because by that logic, even the hooligans who gather under the Atletico Madrid flag would count as some kind of "version" of religion. They just interpret football and their love for the club a bit differently, adding their own weird spin to it.

But let's not get carried away here, because I honestly can't keep up a debate about Atletico Madrid forever.

By the way, that speech from the fallen officer's brother? That's the answer for everyone pointing the finger at religion as the sole reason for what happened in Paris. What a moment 🙏🙏🙏

And just one more thing, ZZ, you seem to react most strongly to comments like 'they got what they deserved,' and that was pretty much the first thing you noticed.
For me, though, the things that really jumped out were the entries like 'all religious fanatics should be wiped out, skin them alive.'

brightpilot6 said:Of course it doesn't. If anything, the very essence of science is its admission that it lacks answers to the ultimate questions.

I find myself hoping that some higher intelligence exists, that goodness eventually finds its way back to those who do good, and that death isn't the final curtain call. But there is a distinction between hope and belief; I don't necessarily believe it, I simply hope for it.

Then there is a third, entirely separate matter: the sheer absurdity of organized religions that exploit hopes like mine, using vague narratives, empty promises, and veiled threats to maintain control over the masses.

What kind of hopes could you possibly have if you identify as an atheist? ☕

restlesssurfer97 said:Nah, I can't go along with you there, ZZ. I really don't agree, because by that logic, even the hooligans who gather under the Atletico Madrid flag would count as some kind of "version" of religion. They just interpret football and their love for the club a bit differently, adding their own weird spin to it.

But let's not get carried away here, because I honestly can't keep up a debate about Atletico Madrid forever.

By the way, that speech from the fallen officer's brother? That's the answer for everyone pointing the finger at religion as the sole reason for what happened in Paris. What a moment 🙏🙏🙏

And just one more thing, ZZ, you seem to react most strongly to comments like 'they got what they deserved,' and that was pretty much the first thing you noticed.
For me, though, the things that really jumped out were the entries like 'all religious fanatics should be wiped out, skin them alive.'

Of course I reacted to that, seeing as people were killed, regardless of who they were.

If religious fanatics had been killed solely because of their fanaticism, and someone actually said "they got what they deserved," then perhaps I would have challenged those specific claims.

Keith Miller30 said:If we connect this back to that recent marriage referendum here in the States—do you really think there are 946,433 religious fanatics living in America?

I was actually debating whether I needed to include a disclaimer about courtroom logic, but I figured, nah, I don't need that. Turns out, I was wrong.

If being a religious fanatic implies that you're bothered by same-sex marriages, that doesn't mean that "being bothered by same-sex marriages" automatically makes you a "fanatic."

Or, to put it simpler, if it's raining, the street is wet. But just because the street is wet, it doesn't necessarily mean it's raining. Maybe a fire hydrant burst or something. I guess!

I’m a proponent of the death penalty, so I won't be participating in these debates about leniency ☕
...

steelharbor9 said:I was actually debating whether I needed to include a disclaimer about courtroom logic, but I figured, nah, I don't need that. Turns out, I was wrong.

If being a religious fanatic implies that you're bothered by same-sex marriages, that doesn't mean that "being bothered by same-sex marriages" automatically makes you a "fanatic."

Or, to put it simpler, if it's raining, the street is wet. But just because the street is wet, it doesn't necessarily mean it's raining. Maybe a fire hydrant burst or something. I guess!

Big down.

steelharbor9 said:How can we even talk about evidence when you clearly don't even know what that means? I guess I forget from time to time that some debates are just straight-up tilting at windmills. You can try to explain things as much as you want, but if it just won't sink in for someone else, there's really nothing you can do...

The fanatics and the people who just refuse to accept anything different, obviously.

I mean, who are you actually trying to convince here? Sorry, but you’d need to be way, way more persuasive if you actually wanted to pull that off.

Anyway, the bottom line is this: we don't know what it is, we can't prove it, so therefore it doesn't exist.

It's giving major religious fanatic vibes from the 15th century. 😂

restlesssurfer97 said:Nah, I can't go along with you there, ZZ. I really don't agree, because by that logic, even the hooligans who gather under the Atletico Madrid flag would count as some kind of "version" of religion. They just interpret football and their love for the club a bit differently, adding their own weird spin to it.

But let's not get carried away here, because I honestly can't keep up a debate about Atletico Madrid forever.

By the way, that speech from the fallen officer's brother? That's the answer for everyone pointing the finger at religion as the sole reason for what happened in Paris. What a moment 🙏🙏🙏

And just one more thing, ZZ, you seem to react most strongly to comments like 'they got what they deserved,' and that was pretty much the first thing you noticed.
For me, though, the things that really jumped out were the entries like 'all religious fanatics should be wiped out, skin them alive.'

I don't personally believe that Islam is inherently militant; after all, it holds many virtues, much like Christianity does. Ultimately, aren't they all drawn from the same well? However, the issue isn't found in hope or faith itself, but rather when certain organizations twist that very hope or belief into fear, weaponizing it to serve their own agendas. In that regard, I make a clear distinction between a genuine belief in God or Goodness and organized religion.

And, as I’ve pointed out before, I don't limit my definition of "religion" strictly to theistic faiths; I include any ideology designed to mold the human mindset for the sake of control—most notably extreme nationalist movements or toxic tribalism.

Robin Fox2 said:I’m a proponent of the death penalty, so I won't be participating in these debates about leniency ☕
...

And Le Pen supports the death penalty too. Who knows, perhaps she actually has a point.

restlesssurfer97 said:I mean, who are you actually trying to convince here? Sorry, but you’d need to be way, way more persuasive if you actually wanted to pull that off.

Anyway, the bottom line is this: we don't know what it is, we can't prove it, so therefore it doesn't exist.

It's giving major religious fanatic vibes from the 15th century. 😂

Whose conclusion is that, anyway? Yours?

I guess it doesn't exist. I'm not claiming anything, though—I don't have any proof.

Man, I really hope you're just trolling.

brightpilot6 said:I don't personally believe that Islam is inherently militant; after all, it holds many virtues, much like Christianity does. Ultimately, aren't they all drawn from the same well? However, the issue isn't found in hope or faith itself, but rather when certain organizations twist that very hope or belief into fear, weaponizing it to serve their own agendas. In that regard, I make a clear distinction between a genuine belief in God or Goodness and organized religion.

And, as I’ve pointed out before, I don't limit my definition of "religion" strictly to theistic faiths; I include any ideology designed to mold the human mindset for the sake of control—most notably extreme nationalist movements or toxic tribalism.

So yeah, that's pretty much where I stand.

I honestly believe Islam is just inherently flawed as a religion; at its core, it spreads through force, having conquered 90% of its territory by the sword... When something is built on such a foundation, you can't just reform it into something better, which is the uncomfortable truth people tend to avoid saying, but whatever...

What really grinds my gears is the hypocrisy within Western liberal circles—they won't say a word when Scientology is making a fool of everyone, yet they'll jump to defend Islam in a heartbeat, purely because of the voting power...

Then again, I realize I don't actually care, since I live in a relatively homogeneous country, and if everything goes to hell, I'll just pack up and move to the States...

Robin Fox2 said:I honestly believe Islam is just inherently flawed as a religion; at its core, it spreads through force, having conquered 90% of its territory by the sword... When something is built on such a foundation, you can't just reform it into something better, which is the uncomfortable truth people tend to avoid saying, but whatever...

What really grinds my gears is the hypocrisy within Western liberal circles—they won't say a word when Scientology is making a fool of everyone, yet they'll jump to defend Islam in a heartbeat, purely because of the voting power...

Then again, I realize I don't actually care, since I live in a relatively homogeneous country, and if everything goes to hell, I'll just pack up and move to the States...

Right, because Christianity was spread by flocks of white doves scattering olive branches and droplets of holy water across the globe, wasn't it? ☕

Robin Fox2 said:I honestly believe Islam is just inherently flawed as a religion; at its core, it spreads through force, having conquered 90% of its territory by the sword... When something is built on such a foundation, you can't just reform it into something better, which is the uncomfortable truth people tend to avoid saying, but whatever...

What really grinds my gears is the hypocrisy within Western liberal circles—they won't say a word when Scientology is making a fool of everyone, yet they'll jump to defend Islam in a heartbeat, purely because of the voting power...

Then again, I realize I don't actually care, since I live in a relatively homogeneous country, and if everything goes to hell, I'll just pack up and move to the States...

Honestly, Christianity is pretty much the same crap. In the Bible, they're killing people left and right, going on Crusades to spread the faith, and forcibly converting entire nations. It's kind of the same deal, I guess.

brightpilot6 said:Right, because Christianity was spread by flocks of white doves scattering olive branches and droplets of holy water across the globe, wasn't it? ☕

Or yeah, exactly that.

There is only one God ☕

Patrick Martin said:There is only one God ☕

Indeed, and he shall be crowned once again today, shall he not?☕