Offside (General Discussion)

Ashley Hernandez29 said:Under Gaddafi, Libya was basically under occupation.🤦
Back during the Gaddafi days, they had free healthcare and education. People from all over the world could just show up and work in Libya without a care in the world—tons of our people had great, high-paying jobs in oil or construction. Even Ivan Canadian used to play soccer there. Now? You can't even step foot in the place because it's way too dangerous. Without security details, our people wouldn't even dream of going there to work.

Plus, when they took out Saddam, the whole justification was that he was building nuclear weapons. Funny how after killing him, they tore the entire country apart looking and couldn't find a single thing... nothing at all.

NATO said themselves they wouldn't expand past Poland, yet here we are seeing ambitions to push all the way to Russia.🤣

Honestly, anything is better than having America try to "introduce democracy." That should basically be considered a curse.

Yeah, sure, things were just wonderful under Gaddafi. Basic civil rights were practically non-existent, and anyone who even thought about questioning him ended up as jackal food.🙄

Kyle Lopez2 said:

In those kinds of broken, unstable countries, you find people who actually manage to spot the divisions, only to end up catching a bullet to the head from some random general.

That’s like saying Andrej Plenković could just smooth over all the political divides in America and we wouldn't even need elections every four years.

The fundamental issue with these countries is that their citizens haven't yet found common ground through shared divisions.

Americans haven't found those divisions either, yet here they are, acting as the global hegemon. That’s how much these splits actually matter.

Amy Bennett said:The truth is, the US gets worked up about almost everything because they're still stuck in a 2000s mindset—specifically, they hate the idea that Europe might actually break away from their fading empire. The whole point of this circus is to isolate both Europe and Russia.

🤣 I don't think you're quite right there. The irony is that the USA "wrote" the pacifist constitution for Japan and the Germans, yet today practically everyone is begging both of them to get involved in these conflicts. Americans have been pleading with the Japanese for 50 years now, and the Germans for at least 20.🤣

Definitivo, the USA definitely has an interest in maintaining its clumsy empire, but Europe actually has even more at stake since we draw resources from those regions even more than the US does. All the pressure falls on the US to imperially control and patrol those territories because Hans doesn't believe in war; he'd rather grab materials cheaply, process them into products, and sell them back to Americans at a premium.

What exactly do you envision when you talk about Europe, and how would a powerful Russia actually benefit that version of Europe???

Nancy Bishop4 said:It’s impossible to rank them—you can't really say which one was the worse dictator or degenerate.🤦>

Nancy Bishop4 said:Yeah, sure, things were just wonderful under Gaddafi. Basic civil rights were practically non-existent, and anyone who even thought about questioning him ended up as jackal food.🙄

Honestly, things are just so much better now with slave auctions and warlords constantly fighting one another, right? Isn't that just great?
Another win in the books! 👍

Ashley Hernandez29 said:In principle, this whole situation is a win for America. They aren't the ones suffering, the media machine is running at full throttle, and they've spun everything to their advantage. Their goal is just to destabilize Russia, and honestly, they couldn't care less about what happens to the poor folks in Ukraine. After this, Russia won't be a functional country for the next hundred years, and Ukraine will be just as screwed—all for the sake of their own economic bottom line. It always comes back to the money.

Russia could have easily avoided the trap set by those wicked Americans. All they had to do was stay out of Ukraine.

Steven Fox37 said:Americans haven't found those divisions either, yet here they are, acting as the global hegemon. That’s how much these splits actually matter.

Besides, Americans aren't out there killing each other over political affiliations, unlike certain colorful populations in the Middle East and Africa.

Ashley Hernandez29 said:In principle, this whole situation is a win for America. They aren't the ones suffering, the media machine is running at full throttle, and they've spun everything to their advantage. Their goal is just to destabilize Russia, and honestly, they couldn't care less about what happens to the poor folks in Ukraine. After this, Russia won't be a functional country for the next hundred years, and Ukraine will be just as screwed—all for the sake of their own economic bottom line. It always comes back to the money.

In a twisted sort of way, it actually makes me feel like they really are suffering. 🤔

Karen Hill40 said:Russia could have easily avoided the trap set by those wicked Americans. All they had to do was stay out of Ukraine.

Damn Americans, just ruined everything for us.

We're all to blame here; we're the ones who built this version of Russia. You've got Germany with Gerhard Schröder tying the whole country to them through energy, then you've got global leader Angela Merkel running things for twenty years while basically just watching Russia do whatever crap they wanted—everyone just looked the other way or ignored it. From the small-time players across Europe to guys like Viktor Orbán and Matteo Salvini, plus the Dutch and Spaniards... honestly, half of them are probably on the Russian payroll.

Our house is going to need a massive cleanup after this; nothing's ever going to be the same again. But hey, sometimes you've gotta let things hit the breaking point before anything actually changes.

neonfalcon16 said:It’s always the exact same setup.
Always looking dead serious, hair perfectly combed, wearing one of those sharp suits, sitting in front of a neatly framed picture in a spotless little apartment.
Because, hey, he’s the "expert," right? We just have to take his word for it.

🤣

Just waiting for this lucky guy's grand announcement to the world... ☕

Nancy Bishop4 said:Besides, Americans aren't out there killing each other over political affiliations, unlike certain colorful populations in the Middle East and Africa.

Well, Americans actually had the chance to develop a political culture like this. Once that "colorful population" starts heading in that direction, they just start throwing wrenches in the works, don't they?

Karen Hill40 said:Russia could have easily avoided the trap set by those wicked Americans. All they had to do was stay out of Ukraine.

The whole point of NATO is "defense" against Russia, but we've seen how they "defended" themselves in other conflicts where that "defense" looks a lot like an invasion to naive people like me.
So, you think the Russians should just gamble their entire country on trusting Americans and NATO? These guys were already Russophobic long before this war started, and the whole point of NATO is being anti-Russian anyway.

Karen Hill40 said:Russia could have easily avoided the trap set by those wicked Americans. All they had to do was stay out of Ukraine.

Yeah, the tribes just let them join NATO, then left them to fight against it alone later. This war has been dragging on for seven years; everyone knew it would hit a breaking point eventually. The Americans were the ones pumping up and encouraging Ukraine, basically leaving them to scramble and fight a much larger, stronger force all by themselves. They couldn't care less about Ukraine—their only goal was to destabilize everything and wait for things to escalate. Honestly, they’re probably just waiting for some Russian to take out Putin. Now Russians are totally frozen out of Europe, banned from sports and culture, while Ukrainians are dying in massive numbers, and the West is just selling oil and weapons at ten times the price.

Steven Fox37 said:Honestly, things are just so much better now with slave auctions and warlords constantly fighting one another, right? Isn't that just great?
Another win in the books! 👍

I honestly don't get why Libya couldn't have just become a stable democracy like Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, Qatar, or any of those other places. 🐔

Steven Fox37 said:Well, Americans actually had the chance to develop a political culture like this. Once that "colorful population" starts heading in that direction, they just start throwing wrenches in the works, don't they?

The whole point of NATO is "defense" against Russia, but we've seen how they "defended" themselves in other conflicts where that "defense" looks a lot like an invasion to naive people like me.
So, you think the Russians should just gamble their entire country on trusting Americans and NATO? These guys were already Russophobic long before this war started, and the whole point of NATO is being anti-Russian anyway.

Oh yeah, sure, all of Europe was just sitting there itching to go to war with Russia. Germany was practically practicing with brooms instead of rifles—you honestly have no idea who was actually ready for a fight. They couldn't even agree on who would pull the trigger first.

Steven Fox37 said:Well, Americans actually had the chance to develop a political culture like this. Once that "colorful population" starts heading in that direction, they just start throwing wrenches in the works, don't they?

The whole point of NATO is "defense" against Russia, but we've seen how they "defended" themselves in other conflicts where that "defense" looks a lot like an invasion to naive people like me.
So, you think the Russians should just gamble their entire country on trusting Americans and NATO? These guys were already Russophobic long before this war started, and the whole point of NATO is being anti-Russian anyway.

It's more likely that people are just tripping over their own feet, and blaming "evil colonialists" is just a cheap excuse for sheer stupidity and immaturity.
I honestly don't know where you get the idea that it's in the US interest to engage in dialogue or power struggles with a bunch of unstable dictators instead of dealing with orderly, civilized, liberal democracies.

Ashley Hernandez29 said:Under Gaddafi, Libya was basically under occupation.🤦
Back during the Gaddafi days, they had free healthcare and education. People from all over the world could just show up and work in Libya without a care in the world—tons of our people had great, high-paying jobs in oil or construction. Even Ivan Canadian used to play soccer there. Now? You can't even step foot in the place because it's way too dangerous. Without security details, our people wouldn't even dream of going there to work.

Plus, when they took out Saddam, the whole justification was that he was building nuclear weapons. Funny how after killing him, they tore the entire country apart looking and couldn't find a single thing... nothing at all.

NATO said themselves they wouldn't expand past Poland, yet here we are seeing ambitions to push all the way to Russia.🤣

Honestly, anything is better than having America try to "introduce democracy." That should basically be considered a curse.

Who actually had what, and how much did they really have?🤔 You’re making these massive generalizations, but the Libyans themselves brought down Gaddafi. It wasn't an American boot on the ground in Libya.

The guy pumped oil and used the money to fund urban development, while everything outside the cities was filled with "hardline extremists."

Ashley Hernandez29 said:Under Gaddafi, Libya was basically under occupation.🤦
Back during the Gaddafi days, they had free healthcare and education. People from all over the world could just show up and work in Libya without a care in the world—tons of our people had great, high-paying jobs in oil or construction. Even Ivan Canadian used to play soccer there. Now? You can't even step foot in the place because it's way too dangerous. Without security details, our people wouldn't even dream of going there to work.

Plus, when they took out Saddam, the whole justification was that he was building nuclear weapons. Funny how after killing him, they tore the entire country apart looking and couldn't find a single thing... nothing at all.

NATO said themselves they wouldn't expand past Poland, yet here we are seeing ambitions to push all the way to Russia.🤣

Honestly, anything is better than having America try to "introduce democracy." That should basically be considered a curse.

Saddam was taken out by his own people, not Americans. I don't see how that relates to a fake casus belli. That same Saddam kept the country together through genocide and chemical weapons.

Ashley Hernandez29 said:Under Gaddafi, Libya was basically under occupation.🤦
Back during the Gaddafi days, they had free healthcare and education. People from all over the world could just show up and work in Libya without a care in the world—tons of our people had great, high-paying jobs in oil or construction. Even Ivan Canadian used to play soccer there. Now? You can't even step foot in the place because it's way too dangerous. Without security details, our people wouldn't even dream of going there to work.

Plus, when they took out Saddam, the whole justification was that he was building nuclear weapons. Funny how after killing him, they tore the entire country apart looking and couldn't find a single thing... nothing at all.

NATO said themselves they wouldn't expand past Poland, yet here we are seeing ambitions to push all the way to Russia.🤣

Honestly, anything is better than having America try to "introduce democracy." That should basically be considered a curse.

Where are you getting that from?

You can't even claim NATO is expanding when countries were practically begging to join to get away from Russia. Nobody hates the Russians more than the former Soviet republics and the countries from the old Warsaw Pact.

Ashley Hernandez29 said:In principle, this whole situation is a win for America. They aren't the ones suffering, the media machine is running at full throttle, and they've spun everything to their advantage. Their goal is just to destabilize Russia, and honestly, they couldn't care less about what happens to the poor folks in Ukraine. After this, Russia won't be a functional country for the next hundred years, and Ukraine will be just as screwed—all for the sake of their own economic bottom line. It always comes back to the money.

So, according to you, a malicious America forced Putin to send 150,000 soldiers equipped with heavy weaponry into someone else's country just to shell cities and kill children...

Give me a break with that kind of relativism...

Paul Sanders5 said:Oh yeah, sure, all of Europe was just sitting there itching to go to war with Russia. Germany was practically practicing with brooms instead of rifles—you honestly have no idea who was actually ready for a fight. They couldn't even agree on who would pull the trigger first.

We all know who really calls the shots in NATO, and we certainly know who the biggest threat is. Plus, let's be real—their heads aren't exactly in the right place, are they?

Nancy Bishop4 said:It's more likely that people are just tripping over their own feet, and blaming "evil colonialists" is just a cheap excuse for sheer stupidity and immaturity.
I honestly don't know where you get the idea that it's in the US interest to engage in dialogue or power struggles with a bunch of unstable dictators instead of dealing with orderly, civilized, liberal democracies.

Like what happened with the Gulf states, for instance?

Nancy Bishop4 said:It's more likely that people are just tripping over their own feet, and blaming "evil colonialists" is just a cheap excuse for sheer stupidity and immaturity.
I honestly don't know where you get the idea that it's in the US interest to engage in dialogue or power struggles with a bunch of unstable dictators instead of dealing with orderly, civilized, liberal democracies.

The issue with those "organized democracies" is that they can easily convince themselves their interests don't align with ours. Then, the US ends up having to hunt for local middlemen just to offload weapons and dollars.
It’s way easier to work with a dictator when you're actually on the same wavelength.

Nancy Bishop4 said:It's more likely that people are just tripping over their own feet, and blaming "evil colonialists" is just a cheap excuse for sheer stupidity and immaturity.
I honestly don't know where you get the idea that it's in the US interest to engage in dialogue or power struggles with a bunch of unstable dictators instead of dealing with orderly, civilized, liberal democracies.

That comparison always felt a bit off to me, especially since we rejected being Mexicans, Yugoslavs, Madars, Italians, or Germans, all while being just a few million people...

Where would I get the right to tell some Libyan tribe—who might have a thousand years of their own distinct culture and language tucked away in isolation—that they are simply "Libyan" and must bow down to someone from a coastal city whose culture and language are completely foreign to them?