hiddendriver34 said:@rowdypanther12, I totally get where you're coming from, and honestly, your points make a lot of sense.
@nosorog, listening to you, it feels like you’ve got some pretty heavy biases against religion—especially Catholicism (which might just come from a fear of the unknown). Do you seriously believe that people of faith don't feel actual pride in their achievements? Or that they only follow social norms because they're terrified of hell? That they spend their whole lives living in pure dread? I honestly don't even know how to respond to that.
I really don't have the energy to keep this debate going or dive into deep theological rabbit holes. All I'll say is that nothing makes my skin crawl more than a fanatic. As much as the sight of those ultra-conservative religious types reminds me of some of the most stuffy folks you'll find in the Midwest, I can't stand militant atheists either. You know the type—the ones who act like they hold the monopoly on TRUTH and treat every believer like some clueless idiot playing with magic tricks.😁
I'm not feeling any fear at all—especially not when it comes to the unknown. 😉
I've actually run into this topic quite a few times before, coming from several different directions.
I don't just look at my immediate family or the relatives I've chosen to stay close to; I also keep a close eye on the kids I work with. Through them, I’ve noticed some really massive gaps between what kids in urban areas are hearing versus those growing up in more rural parts of the country, especially when it comes to the messages they get from religious education and attending Mass.
The differences are massive. Seriously, huge. It’s nothing like what you see here in America.
It really comes down to how people experience and interpret faith, the rituals they use in prayer, and their overall patterns of behavior.
At its core, faith is really about subjectivity. It’s all down to how you personally experience and interpret things, which I actually think is a pretty beautiful way to look at it.
Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable just letting my eight-year-old run with an interpretation that goes against everything I believe in. It’s tough when you can't fully back them up on something, and I think I'd struggle to just step back and let them navigate those kinds of disagreements on their own at that age. 🤷I’m really careful about how I handle things. My goal isn't to undermine the teacher's authority through my actions or the way I engage in discussions. Honestly, I don't want to cast doubt on the rest of the faculty or the school administration either—regardless of how I personally feel about the education system as a whole.
I might not have been clear enough there, and it looks like we were actually on two different pages! In my previous post, I wasn't really talking about believers in general. I was actually responding to your point about parents who aren't religious themselves, yet still sign their kids up for Sunday school. It’s that funny situation where they end up wondering why their eight-year-old is rolling their eyes or acting awkward while praying at the church doors, but then you argue it's perfectly fine because the kid should have the right to choose for themselves and parents just need to respect that autonomy.
I actually see things a little differently.
If a kid is being raised at home with their parents, praying together and heading to church as a family, I honestly don't have any issues with what they’re being taught in religious education. To me, that's a personal family matter.
Thinking about that kid and their family.
He actually has this unique privilege where the government essentially funds his religious influence within the school system. It’s pretty wild—he gets to have his beliefs heard during classes, and sometimes he even gets to practice them right there on campus. We're talking things like blessings for the start of the school year, dedications for the buildings, even special ceremonies for school supplies or food. They even weave it into Christmas programs. It’s definitely a level of institutional support that most people don't see.
I have some questions regarding children—which is something that hits home for me since I'm a parent too. Specifically, I'm thinking about kids whose parents don't really practice any religion at home or incorporate faith into their daily lives, and who also don't participate in the kind of formal religious education typically offered through schools.
Not quite..
To start with, they’re sending this kid double messages—especially when the child starts getting really interested in religion and that kind of content becomes a focal point.
Generally speaking, I feel like faith is such a deeply personal matter that kids really need a steady, reliable adult in their lives to help guide them through it. A teacher managing a classroom of 25 students twice a week just can't provide that kind of one-on-one mentorship. That’s why I think it makes so much sense for the core discussions about faith and its teachings to happen at home—whether it's with parents, grandparents, or an older sibling. Ideally, religious education classes should serve as a way to bring families together, providing a framework that encourages parents to stay involved in those big conversations with their children.
Regarding >'s question and dilemma, I honestly think it’s a bit silly to expect religious education classes to have zero connection to how faith is discussed or lived at home. It's unrealistic to assume parents won't have any role to play in that process.
For practicing believers, the ritual of prayer holds deep significance (and I truly respect that).
The ultimate goal should be to raise someone who understands prayer, uses it meaningfully in various daily situations, and doesn't just go through the motions blindly.
I've met plenty of people of faith for whom prayer was a lifeline during a crisis—it provides hope and encouragement in all sorts of tough spots.
Among believers.
However, I also know that when kids are randomly told they need to pray, it doesn't always help. In some cases, it can actually hinder them, both in their emotional development and their day-to-day life.
If a child in first or second grade is told they need to pray every single day, they’ll likely take that instruction very seriously. It’s the same way they’d react if they were told they had to read an entire page of text every day just to learn how to quote things, or if they were forced to write nine lines of the letter "S" because they struggle with handwriting.
But the real issue is *why* the child is praying. Is the act itself placing a developmental burden on them—essentially making them feel responsible for adult problems? For example, I've heard stories about kids thinking if they just pray hard enough, Dad will finally find a job, or Mom and Dad will stop fighting, or the divorced parents will get back together. I've heard many accounts of children feeling this heavy sense of guilt, as if they "failed" because things didn't change.
And I don't just mean when a teacher tells them that's how prayer works. Often, a child who still possesses a bit of "magical thinking"—which is totally normal for their age—will start praying on their own, clinging to a sense of hope.
They're doing this with very little information and incredibly high expectations.
Plus, without proper guidance or support from the adults in their lives—who might even hold conflicting views on the whole matter—they're left navigating it alone.
