Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Zachary Jackson4 said:Now for the absurd part

"This operation will be studied at military academies worldwide, not just for decades—but for centuries, regarding how it ought to have been executed,"
https://military.pravda.ru/news/1736...ja_vsu_reshen/

Experience is gained through error; though it is always most cost-effective to learn from someone else's mistakes....

hollowdriver13 said:

I don't have any text from "gFlores" to rewrite yet! Please provide the post you'd like me to work on, and I'll get right to crafting it in that long, detailed, laid-back style for you. kaže:
Look, the Russians have been pretty upfront about this since back in the early 1950s—they aren't interested in seeing NATO anywhere near their borders, let alone right on top of them. It really boils down to a simple choice: you either respect their demands, which they’re making from a position of strength, or you go to war because you thought they were just bluffing.

Europe thought they were dealing with a third-tier problem, but instead, they got hit with the second one. 😁

They aren't just bluffing—they're straight-up lying.

Look, having NATO "on the borders" isn't actually a valid reason to start a war. It’s just a convenient excuse. If you ask me, the real issue is that Putin and his crew simply can't stomach the idea of losing their most vital sphere of influence right next to their backyard.

In reality, what’s actually eating them alive is the NATO alliance itself... not because it poses an actual security threat—I mean, let's be real, as if NATO is planning an invasion of Russia—but because it limits their ability to "intervene" in neighboring countries. Essentially, they're losing their entire sphere of influence. For reasons nobody can quite pin down, everyone who used to be in their orbit is fleeing from them like the plague.🤔
One should probably note that NATO hasn't even deployed nuclear weapons in the newer member states.

hollowdriver13 said:https://www.cnn.com/video/example-link

According to CNN, Putin is supposedly down for a one-on-one sit-down with Zelenskyy, but honestly, it feels like we'll be in deep trouble the second the Russians actually start "negotiating."

The whole vibe regarding these talks has shifted from

"Russia's First stance in The negotiations with Ukraine was 'First of all, the delegations should determine the road map. Let The leaders then hold a summit.'"

But now, they're spinning it a different way, like

"Now, in order to stop the war, the Russian side Said, 'First The leaders Can negotiate and determine The Road map. Then, the delegations can start working to implement this road map.'"

Ukraine's roadmap? GTFO. Get the military out, including Crimea and RU, then maybe we talk.

Nathan Thomas12 said:So what, they spent 10 years invading their neighbor in Afghanistan because of NATO? Or they took territory from Georgia back in '08? Or turned Belarus into a puppet state? It's the exact same playbook they're using in Ukraine.
If it's really all about NATO, then I guess we should expect an invasion of Finland before they join. There isn't a second or third option here.

Putin basically said that Finland and Sweden joining NATO is fine... as long as it's not countries where Nazis are in power and actively hating Russia.

Christian Torres3 said:Ukraine's roadmap? GTFO. Get the military out, including Crimea and RU, then maybe we talk.

Regarding the total damages and the specific payment terms, they remain unchanged.

hollowdriver13 said:https://www.cnn.com/video/example-link

According to CNN, Putin is supposedly down for a one-on-one sit-down with Zelenskyy, but honestly, it feels like we'll be in deep trouble the second the Russians actually start "negotiating."

The whole vibe regarding these talks has shifted from

"Russia's First stance in The negotiations with Ukraine was 'First of all, the delegations should determine the road map. Let The leaders then hold a summit.'"

But now, they're spinning it a different way, like

"Now, in order to stop the war, the Russian side Said, 'First The leaders Can negotiate and determine The Road map. Then, the delegations can start working to implement this road map.'"

The fact that they're planning referendums in occupied territories tells me everything I need to know about their exit strategy. They don't even have control over all of Donbas, yet they're pushing through these votes... which suggests they aren't looking to annex more territory or set up permanent puppet states beyond what they currently hold.

Andrew Booth29 said:The fact that they're planning referendums in occupied territories tells me everything I need to know about their exit strategy. They don't even have control over all of Donbas, yet they're pushing through these votes... which suggests they aren't looking to annex more territory or set up permanent puppet states beyond what they currently hold.

My take? They simply can't annex any more territory than that.

Zachary Jackson4 said:Now for the absurd part

"This operation will be studied at military academies worldwide, not just for decades—but for centuries, regarding how it ought to have been executed,"
https://military.pravda.ru/news/1736...ja_vsu_reshen/

The only thing I agree with is that military academies in smaller nations facing threats from superpowers like Turkey, Israel, the USA, France, the UK, China, or Russia will study this. These smaller countries will learn how to fight back against aggressors, especially since most of those big players mentioned above are the ones doing the threatening. ☕

Christian Torres3 said:My take? They simply can't annex any more territory than that.

Sure, that works too—sort of a rider, right? Wait out until winter hits so you can squeeze the EU harder over gas prices, especially since they’re banking on support for Ukraine eventually drying up. Then come those negotiations they seem hell-bent on dragging out indefinitely. Honestly, though? It feels like everyone involved is pretty much burnt out after what was supposed to be a "three-day special operation" turning into six months of actual warfare.

Andrew Booth29 said:Putin basically said that Finland and Sweden joining NATO is fine... as long as it's not countries where Nazis are in power and actively hating Russia.

Right... because he's clearly the ultimate authority on who qualifies as a Nazi and who doesn't. I suppose he’s just hoping his own kind will recognize him from a mile away. It's also funny how people claim Scandinavians have always been fond of Russia since the Soviet days. They seem to love them almost as much as Ukrainians will after this whole "special operation" plays out.

Andrew Booth29 said:The fact that they're planning referendums in occupied territories tells me everything I need to know about their exit strategy. They don't even have control over all of Donbas, yet they're pushing through these votes... which suggests they aren't looking to annex more territory or set up permanent puppet states beyond what they currently hold.

They aren't planning anything for right now, in this specific phase. They’ll wait to regroup, then push forward later. There is no rush on their end; it’s just that they were caught off guard at this particular moment.

Nancy Gomez26 said:Right... because he's clearly the ultimate authority on who qualifies as a Nazi and who doesn't. I suppose he’s just hoping his own kind will recognize him from a mile away. It's also funny how people claim Scandinavians have always been fond of Russia since the Soviet days. They seem to love them almost as much as Ukrainians will after this whole "special operation" plays out.

The Finnish devotion to the Russians is so intense they should just tell them to come on over to Finland—they can join the 200,000 of their countrymen who are already buried in Finnish soil.😬

Andrew Booth29 said:The Finnish devotion to the Russians is so intense they should just tell them to come on over to Finland—they can join the 200,000 of their countrymen who are already buried in Finnish soil.😬

Really, were the losses even that significant during the Winter War? Then again, Stalin holds the record for self-inflicted casualties. Even so, they managed to snatch a decent chunk of territory back from Finland.

Christian Torres3 said:Ukraine's roadmap? GTFO. Get the military out, including Crimea and RU, then maybe we talk.

I mean, they were already trying to negotiate before that whole Russian "reorganization" near Kyiv—you know, that little gesture of goodwill. Are we really just watching history repeat itself here? 😬

hollowdriver13 said:I mean, they were already trying to negotiate before that whole Russian "reorganization" near Kyiv—you know, that little gesture of goodwill. Are we really just watching history repeat itself here? 😬

The negotiations themselves aren't my issue. My issue is what kind of guarantees could Putin possibly offer to ensure he actually sticks to whatever is decided? Honestly? Some sort of honor code? A Cheka-style promise? Here, take our nuclear arsenal back—feel free to use it if we break the deal.

Nancy Gomez26 said:The negotiations themselves aren't my issue. My issue is what kind of guarantees could Putin possibly offer to ensure he actually sticks to whatever is decided? Honestly? Some sort of honor code? A Cheka-style promise? Here, take our nuclear arsenal back—feel free to use it if we break the deal.

That’s exactly why I used quotes. In my opinion, they aren't offering to negotiate “in good faith.” To me, it looks like Russia is just trying to buy some time so they can catch their breath and reorganize.
Between those HIMARS strikes, the improved supply lines, and those recent "accidents" over in Crimea, they definitely took a massive hit.
I’m pretty sure they’d just push for a ceasefire under the guise of "negotiations" to freeze things in place.
But honestly, this whole thing also shows how much it bugs them—even if Putin himself were to step down from his throne this time instead of just sending his lapdogs.

rowdyraven112 said:I’d watch closely where those batteries are coming from, especially since lithium mines are opening up in Mexico. You have to check the country of origin. I'd rather take expensive African imports than cheap stuff from Mexico.☕

Wait, what are we even talking about here? What does that have to do with the Siemens turbine that Russia is using to mess with everyone? Walk me through your thought process on my post, because I’m totally lost—what you just wrote feels like it has absolutely zero connection to anything I originally said.

William Anderson5 said:We'll see. If the Russians don't attack Finland, then all those theories about NATO being the cause of the war just fall apart...

That isn't my argument—it's the Russian one. If you want to know what's actually driving it, you'll have to ask them. History is full of these lines in the sand. Back in 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Americans drew a line in the sand over Cuba. They basically said it would be WW3 if those missiles weren't moved. Maybe it was a bluff, maybe it wasn't. Either way, Russia backed down and retreated.

rowdyraven112 said:We could sit here all day debating who attacked whom, who occupied territory, who committed ethnic cleansing, rape, war crimes, or set up puppet states. We can go on forever.

The way you're talking makes me think you'd rather see your neighbor lose two cows just so you can have one. ☕

Spot on—Russia basically slaughtered two of Ukraine's cows, but they ended up losing one of their own in the process too.

Joshua Myers432 said:That isn't my argument—it's the Russian one. If you want to know what's actually driving it, you'll have to ask them. History is full of these lines in the sand. Back in 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Americans drew a line in the sand over Cuba. They basically said it would be WW3 if those missiles weren't moved. Maybe it was a bluff, maybe it wasn't. Either way, Russia backed down and retreated.

The two situations aren't even in the same league. That was an unprecedented crisis at the height of the Cold War, a pure ideological clash between the East and the West when nuclear saber-rattling was at its peak.

What we’re looking at now is a complex in the Kremlin who attacked a neighboring country for no reason and started acting like a lunatic by threatening nuclear strikes. There was virtually no tension between Russia and the West until this guy decided to invade Ukraine. The West had mostly moved on from Crimea, and trade with Russia was flowing more than ever. The West wasn't even focused on Russia; everyone was too preoccupied with COVID-19 and economic issues until this little man lost his mind.

Trying to compare this to the Cold War just proves you don't really grasp what was happening in the fifties and sixties, or how the world actually functioned back then...