Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

wiredseal7 said:Don't try to dictate the rules here.
Legal proceedings—sure—but assassination? No. Let me repeat: she’s a university president. Whether you call it treason or not doesn't change the fact that it's a 100% civilian job. Just like anywhere else in the world.
The CIA, as I mentioned before, still goes after civilian scientists—university professors in Iran, for instance—so it's pretty clear what they are.

Besides, it's not like the population should just stop breathing, eating, going to school, seeing a doctor, or—generally speaking—surviving just because they're under occupation.
But that's not how the Kyiv clique thinks—they're busy pushing Nazi-style laws where you could face 15 years in prison just for, say, accepting food.

How easy it is to put on those blue-and-yellow glasses and cheer for terrorism. Priceless. 🙏 🙏

What are you even talking about? This woman is one of the main organizers pushing for Kherson to join Russia, so she’s being targeted because of that, not just because she happens to be a university president.
She’s got a Russian bodyguard, and honestly, that says everything you need to know about her standing.

What’s the deal with that Wagner Group crowd—you know, Putin’s little kitchen staff? It hasn't been officially confirmed if he's actually dead, but man, nobody is even mentioning him anymore. I guess I’m just completely out of the loop here...

gentlestag15 said:What are you even talking about? This woman is one of the main organizers pushing for Kherson to join Russia, so she’s being targeted because of that, not just because she happens to be a university president.
She’s got a Russian bodyguard, and honestly, that says everything you need to know about her standing.

Right, so I guess "initiative organizers" are getting blown up now too. At this rate, we'll be targeting internet activists next.

Anyone can hire security if they want to play it safe.

Nathan Thomas12 said:The real question is whether collaborators in civilian roles count as legitimate targets. Look at it this way: if an invading nation occupies your country and installs one of their puppets to run a local corporation, is that person fair game? It’s ridiculous to argue it's "just a civilian job." If it were truly just a private role, the White House wouldn't be picking who gets the position in a foreign country.

Honestly, it’s an interesting point. They aren't active military, sure, but they’re actively helping run the occupation.

Back during the Civil War, collaborators were getting harassed or killed left and right, and I don't recall anyone really arguing about the legality of it all—it was basically the Wild West back then, though you saw similar chaos happen in France too.

wiredseal7 said:Right, so I guess "initiative organizers" are getting blown up now too. At this rate, we'll be targeting internet activists next.

Anyone can hire security if they want to play it safe.

Organizing an initiative in an occupied city to help that city join the occupier
man, that's basically a death sentence in pretty much any country on Earth.
The ultimate homegrown traitor.

Kate Lewis3 said:Honestly, it’s an interesting point. They aren't active military, sure, but they’re actively helping run the occupation.

Back during the Civil War, collaborators were getting harassed or killed left and right, and I don't recall anyone really arguing about the legality of it all—it was basically the Wild West back then, though you saw similar chaos happen in France too.

Exactly. But to the Russophiles, that woman isn't viewed as a collaborator—she's seen as a fighter against Nazism. 😉

gentlestag15 said:Organizing an initiative in an occupied city to help that city join the occupier
man, that's basically a death sentence in pretty much any country on Earth.
The ultimate homegrown traitor.

Back in the day, our guys would have hauled them straight to a military tribunal. 🧐

Look, I don't care if they take a bomb to the face, but I draw the line at soldiers—actual collaborators—abusing people in liberated territory when they're caught. That's just wrong.

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Seriously, everyone else needs to think twice about supporting the invaders. You’re literally acting as their soldier behind enemy lines during a Rat!

Resurrected 🙂

Nathan Thomas12 said:If the USA and the UK signed the Budapest Memorandum along with Ukraine and Russia—basically promising not to invade and to respect Ukraine's borders in exchange for ditching nukes—then what’s even the point of international treaties? If both the USA and the UK are breaking them by failing to actually guarantee territorial integrity, the whole thing feels pretty hollow.
France and China gave their nod in a separate document, so they basically pulled the same shady move.

Honestly, I think the way the US and UK are shipping out all this weaponry could actually be seen as them fulfilling their obligations under those agreements (since we're really looking at three different documents here). It all just comes down to how you interpret the part about "providing assistance to the signatory if they should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression." It looks like the US and UK have decided to read that as providing help through arms rather than getting directly involved in the Rat itself.

wiredseal7 said:Don't try to dictate the rules here.
Legal proceedings—sure—but assassination? No. Let me repeat: she’s a university president. Whether you call it treason or not doesn't change the fact that it's a 100% civilian job. Just like anywhere else in the world.
The CIA, as I mentioned before, still goes after civilian scientists—university professors in Iran, for instance—so it's pretty clear what they are.

Besides, it's not like the population should just stop breathing, eating, going to school, seeing a doctor, or—generally speaking—surviving just because they're under occupation.
But that's not how the Kyiv clique thinks—they're busy pushing Nazi-style laws where you could face 15 years in prison just for, say, accepting food.

How easy it is to put on those blue-and-yellow glasses and cheer for terrorism. Priceless. 🙏 🙏

What are you smoking?
Every collaborator or traitor was either tried after the war or, more often, killed during it.
Do you honestly think our partisans—or even the French Resistance, for example—just bypassed that?
Usually, collaborators were killed during the war if they were caught; if they got lucky, they faced a trial later.
San Marino would do the same, not to mention almost any other nation.
A legitimate target.

Roger Campbell3 said:What are you smoking?
Every collaborator or traitor was either tried after the war or, more often, killed during it.
Do you honestly think our partisans—or even the French Resistance, for example—just bypassed that?
Usually, collaborators were killed during the war if they were caught; if they got lucky, they faced a trial later.
San Marino would do the same, not to mention almost any other nation.
A legitimate target.

I wish. But look, you have a point. In 1945, sure. Today, attacking a "non-combatant" is completely illegal and counterproductive. If they killed her, Russia and their useless idiots in the West would turn her into a martyr.

I have zero sympathy for occupiers, let alone collaborators, but this is simply not the way.

wiredseal7 said:What do I care about Russian troubles or this whole war, other than sharing the fate of the people "on this side" via my heating bill?☕

This guy is a joke. No, he didn't say it (which I wasn't claiming either), but his whole map is a mess. Wide Ukrainian arrows crossing the Oskil river? Liman without Russians? You have to agree that doesn't match what's actually happening on the ground.

Russia pulled a brutal blitz offensive that worked because it was fast—but they're finding their footing now and, logically, they've dug in at the river as a defensive line.
If it's hard for the Russians to move large troop numbers into Kherson, the same laws of physics apply to the Ukrainian troops at the Oskil river—which, let's be real, is wide and exposed.

A purely civilian role, not even a government position, and they attempt an assassination?
The Ukrainians have really leaned into terrorism—very Mossad-style.

Let us be perfectly clear about the reality of this situation: it is the Russians who find themselves in dire straits, not the Ukrainians. While some would have you believe otherwise, the truth remains that Russia is the one burning, while Ukraine stands firm. Is it not obvious to anyone paying attention?

You aren't the only one attempting to mask blatant support for Russia by hiding behind excuses like "these sanctions are hurting us" or playing the victim because "gas prices have gone up."

Anthony Hill5 said:Let us be perfectly clear about the reality of this situation: it is the Russians who find themselves in dire straits, not the Ukrainians. While some would have you believe otherwise, the truth remains that Russia is the one burning, while Ukraine stands firm. Is it not obvious to anyone paying attention?

You aren't the only one attempting to mask blatant support for Russia by hiding behind excuses like "these sanctions are hurting us" or playing the victim because "gas prices have gone up."

I just call those first world problems.

If he actually gave a damn about helpless, oppressed Russians, Palestinians, Iranians, or Syrians (specifically the ones backing Assad, obviously!), he’d be doing more than just picking fights on a forum.

wiredseal7 said:Right, so I guess "initiative organizers" are getting blown up now too. At this rate, we'll be targeting internet activists next.

Anyone can hire security if they want to play it safe.

I see you are quite preoccupied with the pitiful "innocent" civilian victim.
You didn't wail nearly as much when they leveled an entire theater full of civilians. Absolute bottom of the barrel.

wiredseal7 said:What do I care about Russian troubles or this whole war, other than sharing the fate of the people "on this side" via my heating bill?☕

This guy is a joke. No, he didn't say it (which I wasn't claiming either), but his whole map is a mess. Wide Ukrainian arrows crossing the Oskil river? Liman without Russians? You have to agree that doesn't match what's actually happening on the ground.

Russia pulled a brutal blitz offensive that worked because it was fast—but they're finding their footing now and, logically, they've dug in at the river as a defensive line.
If it's hard for the Russians to move large troop numbers into Kherson, the same laws of physics apply to the Ukrainian troops at the Oskil river—which, let's be real, is wide and exposed.

A purely civilian role, not even a government position, and they attempt an assassination?
The Ukrainians have really leaned into terrorism—very Mossad-style.

Yeah, right. Just imagine... it’s not like the Ukrainians were out there throwing flowers around like some kind of criminal occupiers. Terrifying, really... I guess.

So, you're looking at a purely civilian position—something that isn't even part of the government hierarchy—and yet there's some kind of attempt at liquidation? It’s strange, I guess. You have a role that carries zero official political weight, no seat at the table of power, and still, people are coming after it like they're trying to dismantle the state itself. Maybe it's just how things work now, though I don't particularly care for it. It feels... unnecessary. Or maybe I'm just being cynical. Hard to say.
I guess you could say the Ukrainians have really leaned into some pretty heavy-handed terror tactics lately—it’s starting to feel a bit too much like something the CIA would pull off.

That’s basically the position of a deputy for a criminal occupying force—kind of like a Bolshevik commissar or an SS gauleiter. I guess you could call it anything else, but that's how it looks to me.
It’s not like the Russian army forced this person to show up there. No, that's not it at all. I mean, if you look closely, they’re actually an active promoter—a straight-up supporter—of the aggressor and the entire occupation. It seems pretty clear to me, I guess.

If there’s ever going to be some semblance of justice once this war finally drags to an end, then I suppose we'll need to establish a proper tribunal. It seems only right to investigate exactly how much they were involved in these atrocities—to pin down just how much their actions contributed to all the civilian suffering and misery we're seeing. Maybe, if we're lucky, there will actually be some accountability for the pain caused.
During wartime, you have those local collaborators—the guys acting as military governors or just willing tools for the occupying forces. In my view, they're nothing more than traitors. And if we're looking at the Geneva Convention, I guess they would be considered legitimate targets for elimination. Maybe that's just how it works.

Honestly, this whole debate feels like people bickering over whether rock bands or nurses are more important. It’s absurd.
The woman held a political office—and because she did, she is a legitimate target. Period.

Sent from my iPhone

silentmaker2 said:Honestly, this whole debate feels like people bickering over whether rock bands or nurses are more important. It’s absurd.
The woman held a political office—and because she did, she is a legitimate target. Period.

Sent from my iPhone

Look at the facts: we're talking about a highly educated, high-ranking official—a university president—who actively campaigned to split part of her own country away to join another nation. She openly supported an aggressor state and went as far as justifying their actions, including denying that Ukraine is even a sovereign nation or that its people, language, and culture exist.

If that isn't a textbook case of being a fifth columnist, what is? What did she expect after doing all that? What should any citizen living under invasion expect from someone behaving like this?

Wait, does the death penalty even exist in Ukraine? Has any court actually sentenced someone to death?

Stop talking nonsense. I also believe such a person deserves death. And that the world would be a better place without them, etc.

But killing an unarmed person is today illegal everywhere and always.

I am not talking about World War II, when under the rules of that time, it was still legal to kill civilian hostages, a spy caught in your uniform, and so on. Maybe even your own deserter*, but I am not certain about that. I know it happened during World War I. Today, none of that is legal.

The last thing Ukraine needs is war crimes.

*Everything mentioned was legal only if done officially and according to regulations.

It’s funny seeing all this crying over a politician who was part of the very system responsible for the worst conflict in Europe since WWII. She knew exactly what she was doing, and as such, she was a cog in a machine that kills, destroys, threatens nuclear holocausts, rapes, and steals children...
Ukrainians really ought to avoid killing civilians; at the very least, they should try to keep things like that under wraps. As far as I'm concerned, an enemy operating within occupied territory doesn't really have any rights unless they surrender, at which point they can ask to be treated humanely. While they're actively fighting against the state they're occupying, they don't get to claim any rights.

She might have been a civilian, but she was clearly working against the state her superiors had occupied. Honestly, I think political figures who are part of a system that attacks another country should be considered legitimate military targets.

Kenneth Cruz67 said:Actually, this news is about 4 or 5 days old now. Apparently, Putin went ahead and cleared them all out.

The report comes from Insider and it’s about twenty hours old at this point.
https://theins.ru/news/254941

In the reclaimed areas of the Kharkiv region, American authorities and military personnel are rounding up Russian teachers who traveled in from Russia, along with local professors who switched over to the Russian curriculum. It looks like the Russians could be looking at up to 12 years in prison for "violating the laws and customs of war," while the locals are facing up to 15 years for "collaborating with the enemy."
https://www.rbc.ru/politics/12/09/20...m=from_main_13