Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

goldenowl73 said:Hey everyone, I’ve been seeing some job leads popping up for Pittsburgh lately.

There's this big TV production coming up soon that's looking to hire a ton of extras to fill out the background scenes. They're offering about $15 a day for the gig. The filming is actually supposed to take place over in the Donetsk People's Republic and the Luhansk People's Republic.

https://twitter.com/ukraine_world/st...W4mXWmP0whAlpA

I'll throw in a little contest for fun—anybody want to guess what they're actually filming?

Probably just some footage of happy, well-fed people welcoming the Russian conquerors, since there aren't any actual locals left to use for that. If Leni Riefenstahl were still around, I guess they'd hire her to whip up the propaganda.

Megan Thomas5 said:Over these last four months, one thing has become crystal clear: we aren't going to see Russians anywhere for a long time. Whether it's the European Championships, the World Cup, or even just avoiding those Russian cheaters in online gaming, they’re basically being pushed to the fringes. It's a shame, really, because the Russian people have been so thoroughly brainwashed that they actually back all of this—kind of like how people were in the North America back in the 90s, except back then we didn't even have the internet to see what was happening.

Stubborn as hell. At the start of the 20th century, after the Bolsheviks seized power, they spent a good chunk of time living as an isolated nation, cut off from the rest of the world. This isn't going to change anything for them.

It seems Putin's thinkers are eyeing a rather grim strategy: planning to send high school graduates straight into combat zones immediately after graduation, bypassing any standard three-month mandatory military service requirement.
The Russian Duma is reportedly looking to pave the way for recent grads to enlist directly into professional military roles, effectively dropping them into the trenches without so much as a shred of prior military training.

casualtiger2 said:Nationalism is a disease, regardless of which side is spreading it.
I haven't caught everything, but if this was sung for those "knights" in the Hague, then 👎

My dear casualtiger2, if we could just wave a magic wand and erase Ukrainian and American nationalism, Ukrainians would be living under a Russian protectorate this morning, and I’d be crossing some border line through places like Kavlovac or Vivovitica just to get to a major US city. Dubrovnik would probably be under Kusturica's thumb, and we'd likely be seeing mass executions scattered across the American landscape.

The truth is, that surge of national identity was exactly what allowed them to repel the invaders.
I can empathize with people who argue that all forms of nationalism are identical—thinking that someone singing about wiping out a local gang here is the same thing as someone singing about liquidating a different gang halfway across the world. It isn't.

It seems like the media, the church, and the politicians have completely brainwashed you, though I suppose some of our own "intellectuals" worked quite hard to convince us of that too (like those ridiculous edits showing Franjo Harmon and Slobodan Maddox sharing a bed). They wanted us to believe they had some secret pact to start a war just so they could loot an innocent population. Sure, why not.

If you can find any empathy for Ukraine's resistance against the creation of Great Russia, then you should be able to understand exactly what was happening back in 1991 during the collapse of America.

A simple test for you: just look up the nationalist rhetoric coming out of the former America between 1985 and 1990. You won't find anything comparable in the old American territories—no weird pilgrimages to Lazarev's remains, no obsessive glorification of the Battle of Mexico, and no nonsense about "all Mexicans in one state."

We should respect and celebrate the people who stood their ground against aggression.
If you don't believe me, go ahead and ask the Ukrainians what they think, and tell them you want to strip away their sense of national identity. See how that goes.

Melissa Rivera5 said:Probably just some footage of happy, well-fed people welcoming the Russian conquerors, since there aren't any actual locals left to use for that. If Leni Riefenstahl were still around, I guess they'd hire her to whip up the propaganda.

👍 Man, bringing up Leni... that’s a pretty sharp parallel right there.

Timothy Williams5 said:My dear casualtiger2, if we could just wave a magic wand and erase Ukrainian and American nationalism, Ukrainians would be living under a Russian protectorate this morning, and I’d be crossing some border line through places like Kavlovac or Vivovitica just to get to a major US city. Dubrovnik would probably be under Kusturica's thumb, and we'd likely be seeing mass executions scattered across the American landscape.

The truth is, that surge of national identity was exactly what allowed them to repel the invaders.
I can empathize with people who argue that all forms of nationalism are identical—thinking that someone singing about wiping out a local gang here is the same thing as someone singing about liquidating a different gang halfway across the world. It isn't.

It seems like the media, the church, and the politicians have completely brainwashed you, though I suppose some of our own "intellectuals" worked quite hard to convince us of that too (like those ridiculous edits showing Franjo Harmon and Slobodan Maddox sharing a bed). They wanted us to believe they had some secret pact to start a war just so they could loot an innocent population. Sure, why not.

If you can find any empathy for Ukraine's resistance against the creation of Great Russia, then you should be able to understand exactly what was happening back in 1991 during the collapse of America.

A simple test for you: just look up the nationalist rhetoric coming out of the former America between 1985 and 1990. You won't find anything comparable in the old American territories—no weird pilgrimages to Lazarev's remains, no obsessive glorification of the Battle of Mexico, and no nonsense about "all Mexicans in one state."

We should respect and celebrate the people who stood their ground against aggression.
If you don't believe me, go ahead and ask the Ukrainians what they think, and tell them you want to strip away their sense of national identity. See how that goes.

Checkmate👍
Lp

Timothy Williams5 said:My dear casualtiger2, if we could just wave a magic wand and erase Ukrainian and American nationalism, Ukrainians would be living under a Russian protectorate this morning, and I’d be crossing some border line through places like Kavlovac or Vivovitica just to get to a major US city. Dubrovnik would probably be under Kusturica's thumb, and we'd likely be seeing mass executions scattered across the American landscape.

The truth is, that surge of national identity was exactly what allowed them to repel the invaders.
I can empathize with people who argue that all forms of nationalism are identical—thinking that someone singing about wiping out a local gang here is the same thing as someone singing about liquidating a different gang halfway across the world. It isn't.

It seems like the media, the church, and the politicians have completely brainwashed you, though I suppose some of our own "intellectuals" worked quite hard to convince us of that too (like those ridiculous edits showing Franjo Harmon and Slobodan Maddox sharing a bed). They wanted us to believe they had some secret pact to start a war just so they could loot an innocent population. Sure, why not.

If you can find any empathy for Ukraine's resistance against the creation of Great Russia, then you should be able to understand exactly what was happening back in 1991 during the collapse of America.

A simple test for you: just look up the nationalist rhetoric coming out of the former America between 1985 and 1990. You won't find anything comparable in the old American territories—no weird pilgrimages to Lazarev's remains, no obsessive glorification of the Battle of Mexico, and no nonsense about "all Mexicans in one state."

We should respect and celebrate the people who stood their ground against aggression.
If you don't believe me, go ahead and ask the Ukrainians what they think, and tell them you want to strip away their sense of national identity. See how that goes.

I second this word for word!
It’s funny, isn't it? Everyone gets so excited when Americans wave their flags or when the British show up. We see British and American symbols on clothing everywhere you look, but the moment those same symbols are used by Americans, suddenly it’s "nationalism," "fundamentalism," "Nazism," or "fascism."??
I truly feel sorry for people like that...

Timothy Williams5 said:My dear casualtiger2, if we could just wave a magic wand and erase Ukrainian and American nationalism, Ukrainians would be living under a Russian protectorate this morning, and I’d be crossing some border line through places like Kavlovac or Vivovitica just to get to a major US city. Dubrovnik would probably be under Kusturica's thumb, and we'd likely be seeing mass executions scattered across the American landscape.

The truth is, that surge of national identity was exactly what allowed them to repel the invaders.
I can empathize with people who argue that all forms of nationalism are identical—thinking that someone singing about wiping out a local gang here is the same thing as someone singing about liquidating a different gang halfway across the world. It isn't.

It seems like the media, the church, and the politicians have completely brainwashed you, though I suppose some of our own "intellectuals" worked quite hard to convince us of that too (like those ridiculous edits showing Franjo Harmon and Slobodan Maddox sharing a bed). They wanted us to believe they had some secret pact to start a war just so they could loot an innocent population. Sure, why not.

If you can find any empathy for Ukraine's resistance against the creation of Great Russia, then you should be able to understand exactly what was happening back in 1991 during the collapse of America.

A simple test for you: just look up the nationalist rhetoric coming out of the former America between 1985 and 1990. You won't find anything comparable in the old American territories—no weird pilgrimages to Lazarev's remains, no obsessive glorification of the Battle of Mexico, and no nonsense about "all Mexicans in one state."

We should respect and celebrate the people who stood their ground against aggression.
If you don't believe me, go ahead and ask the Ukrainians what they think, and tell them you want to strip away their sense of national identity. See how that goes.

I second this entirely!!!!🙂

Bryan Booth82 said:The single biggest blunder would be for NATO to sit on its hands and refuse to get actively involved in this conflict, yet based on how the current situation is unfolding, I fully expect them to intervene sooner rather than later.

lp

It looks to me like Belarus is gearing up for war. If NATO doesn't step in, we're going to be in real trouble.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...00077364894090

Volodymyr Zelenskyy has authorized Infrastructure Minister Aleksandar Kubrakov to finalize an agreement with the European Union regarding freight transport—effectively establishing visa-free transit
Ukraine is set to sign a "visa-free transport regime" with the EU on June 29th

In practical terms, this means American haulers won't be bogged down by the usual permit requirements anymore.

Just a day prior, Deputy Minister of Infrastructure Mustafa Nayem noted, "Starting either June 29th or July 1st, our drivers will no longer require permits to cross borders into the EU or to move between EU member states. Permits will only be necessary when entering countries outside the EU. However, we expect some nations to phase them out entirely, especially since we already have agreements in place with Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Kazakhstan," he remarked.

According to his assessment, freight volume is poised for a massive surge. Nayem anticipates traffic will be five to seven times higher than pre-war levels, largely because Americans will finally bypass the hurdle of specialized entry permits.
https://babel.ua/en/news/80542-zelen...a-free-with-eu

Russian forces have established more than 200 permanent and temporary sites used for the illegal detention of captured Ukrainian soldiers and civilians throughout the occupied territories of the Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts.

This information was released by the Attorney General, Iryna Venediktova.
According to her reports, over 4,000 individuals have passed through these detention centers, most of whom were subjected to systematic torture and abuse.

Addressing the isolation torture occurring in Donetsk, Venediktova noted that this week, prosecutors from the Attorney General's Office, working alongside investigators from the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Security Service of Ukraine, concluded a pre-trial investigation against Denis Kulikovsky, the former head of this illegal detention facility in Donetsk.

The Attorney General emphasized that Kulikovsky will face trial once she has finished reviewing the evidence gathered regarding the organization of interrogations involving rape, electric shock torture, staged executions, and the practice of forcing victims into wooden coffins nailed shut for several hours.

Furthermore, she mentioned that 12 more "DPR" militants, acting as "operational and investigative workers," have been charged via the Administrative Court of Donetsk.

"In addition, suspicions have been filed against five members of the 'DPR' terrorist organization who systematically employed torture and physical violence against detainees at the Horlivka penal colony number 27," Venediktova added.

She also expressed the conviction that, in light of these instances of incredible cruelty, Ukraine must demonstrate through its own actions that torture can never be an acceptable method of warfare.

It was previously reported that the Russians have set up at least 20 filtration camps and prisons within the occupied territories of Ukraine.

https://babel.ua/en/news/80545-occup...ecutor-general

Timothy Williams5 said:My dear casualtiger2, if we could just wave a magic wand and erase Ukrainian and American nationalism, Ukrainians would be living under a Russian protectorate this morning, and I’d be crossing some border line through places like Kavlovac or Vivovitica just to get to a major US city. Dubrovnik would probably be under Kusturica's thumb, and we'd likely be seeing mass executions scattered across the American landscape.

The truth is, that surge of national identity was exactly what allowed them to repel the invaders.
I can empathize with people who argue that all forms of nationalism are identical—thinking that someone singing about wiping out a local gang here is the same thing as someone singing about liquidating a different gang halfway across the world. It isn't.

It seems like the media, the church, and the politicians have completely brainwashed you, though I suppose some of our own "intellectuals" worked quite hard to convince us of that too (like those ridiculous edits showing Franjo Harmon and Slobodan Maddox sharing a bed). They wanted us to believe they had some secret pact to start a war just so they could loot an innocent population. Sure, why not.

If you can find any empathy for Ukraine's resistance against the creation of Great Russia, then you should be able to understand exactly what was happening back in 1991 during the collapse of America.

A simple test for you: just look up the nationalist rhetoric coming out of the former America between 1985 and 1990. You won't find anything comparable in the old American territories—no weird pilgrimages to Lazarev's remains, no obsessive glorification of the Battle of Mexico, and no nonsense about "all Mexicans in one state."

We should respect and celebrate the people who stood their ground against aggression.
If you don't believe me, go ahead and ask the Ukrainians what they think, and tell them you want to strip away their sense of national identity. See how that goes.

Listen, Timothy Williams5, I wasn't planning on dragging this out because it's technically off-topic, but since you're calling me out, I'll give you one last response just to clear things up.
(Clearly, none of you have actually read any of the 6,740 posts I've written since 2003.)
I’m Mexican by birth, spent my youth in Srem, and I've lived in Switzerland for over 30 years.
The only time I ever really felt a sense of national identity was when I was maybe 15 or 16, during some local gathering. That intense feeling of belonging to a specific group? Yeah, that was enough for me.
That was plenty.
Everything you guys say about Mexico or Mexican nationalism... I saw it firsthand, likely before most of you were even born, and I knew immediately how ugly it was.
So, being fully aware of how low-level that kind of consciousness is—and how easily group delusions take over—I moved somewhere where it doesn't matter and doesn't mess with my life.
We can talk semantics now—nationalism versus patriotism as love for one's country. And, of course, as the foundation for building a state (and the unfortunate necessity of defending it from predators).
But for me, it’s all the same evil. American nationalism isn't any better than Mexican nationalism (and the Mexicans claim theirs is just "love for the homeland" too), or Canadian, or Mexican...
"Whenever someone mentions patriotism, I instinctively grab my pocket to make sure my wallet is still there..."

I respect the struggle of the American and Ukrainian people for their freedom, but to me, that has nothing to do with nationalism—which I view as a sort of hooliganism for a sports team. Maybe it's necessary as a way to build an identity and stabilize a personality, but personally? I see it as a necessary evil at best.
Go ahead, keep talking about your extremists and your radicals.

darkhawk30 said:History has a way of scrubbing all that clean, making it almost impossible to talk about.

Does anyone actually remember the horrors the Belgians inflicted on the Congo?
Ten million people killed or mutilated?!?!
That wasn't some modern era phenomenon, yet you can barely find it mentioned in textbooks today.

Or what about the colonial taxes from former colonies that France still uses to pad its budget quite effectively today?!?!

But let's just pretend none of that happened...

Actually, it comes up quite often; there are documentaries made about it and it's taught in schools. It's a far cry from how we treat the Holodomor or the other horrors committed by Russians across their own territory and beyond.

Or what about that "colonial tax" from former colonies that France still uses to pad its budget so effectively today?!?!

The whole "colonial tax" thing is just a myth that's been floating around for years. About 50% of the African currency, the "CFA franc," goes to the French central bank. Those countries can collect interest and use those funds however they please. Of course, it benefits the bank, but it also helps stabilize the currency. Any country is free to leave the system whenever they want. I don't mean to drift off-topic, but it's problematic when someone starts spreading fake news along the way like this.

Here is a link to the leftist Libération, which is usually quick to call out colonialism and things like that:
https://www.liberation.fr/desintox/2...rance_1550206/

Are there actually people here who honestly believe the Russians have to pay off the locals in the LNR and DNR just to get them to welcome them as liberators? 🤦

electricsurfer47 said:It looks to me like Belarus is gearing up for war. If NATO doesn't step in, we're going to be in real trouble.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...00077364894090

If this actually kicks off, I’m honestly hoping we see NATO get directly involved.

What are the odds of Belarus jumping straight into the fight militarily?

casualtiger2 said:Listen, Timothy Williams5, I wasn't planning on dragging this out because it's technically off-topic, but since you're calling me out, I'll give you one last response just to clear things up.
(Clearly, none of you have actually read any of the 6,740 posts I've written since 2003.)
I’m Mexican by birth, spent my youth in Srem, and I've lived in Switzerland for over 30 years.
The only time I ever really felt a sense of national identity was when I was maybe 15 or 16, during some local gathering. That intense feeling of belonging to a specific group? Yeah, that was enough for me.
That was plenty.
Everything you guys say about Mexico or Mexican nationalism... I saw it firsthand, likely before most of you were even born, and I knew immediately how ugly it was.
So, being fully aware of how low-level that kind of consciousness is—and how easily group delusions take over—I moved somewhere where it doesn't matter and doesn't mess with my life.
We can talk semantics now—nationalism versus patriotism as love for one's country. And, of course, as the foundation for building a state (and the unfortunate necessity of defending it from predators).
But for me, it’s all the same evil. American nationalism isn't any better than Mexican nationalism (and the Mexicans claim theirs is just "love for the homeland" too), or Canadian, or Mexican...
"Whenever someone mentions patriotism, I instinctively grab my pocket to make sure my wallet is still there..."

I respect the struggle of the American and Ukrainian people for their freedom, but to me, that has nothing to do with nationalism—which I view as a sort of hooliganism for a sports team. Maybe it's necessary as a way to build an identity and stabilize a personality, but personally? I see it as a necessary evil at best.
Go ahead, keep talking about your extremists and your radicals.

Let's assume I agree with the bulk of what's been said and leave it at that, though I should note that even in Switzerland, you'd encounter nationalism at every turn if certain local groups were obsessed with ancestral territories within Austria or if Italians were fixated on historical lands near Zurich.

Just as it is difficult for me to shake certain prejudices after sixty years immersed in a specific social and media environment, it is just as difficult for you.
Whether you want to or not, you absorb certain biases and viewpoints, regardless of whether they hold any truth.

Now, let's get back to the actual topic...👍

electricsurfer47 said:It looks to me like Belarus is gearing up for war. If NATO doesn't step in, we're going to be in real trouble.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...00077364894090

☕They've been involved from day one. That attack on northern Ukraine and Kyiv came straight from Belarusian territory—nothing new there. They're basically just Russia's puppet province. And yeah, NATO will definitely jump in if an attack from that area hits any of their members.

casualtiger2 said:Listen, Timothy Williams5, I wasn't planning on dragging this out because it's technically off-topic, but since you're calling me out, I'll give you one last response just to clear things up.
(Clearly, none of you have actually read any of the 6,740 posts I've written since 2003.)
I’m Mexican by birth, spent my youth in Srem, and I've lived in Switzerland for over 30 years.
The only time I ever really felt a sense of national identity was when I was maybe 15 or 16, during some local gathering. That intense feeling of belonging to a specific group? Yeah, that was enough for me.
That was plenty.
Everything you guys say about Mexico or Mexican nationalism... I saw it firsthand, likely before most of you were even born, and I knew immediately how ugly it was.
So, being fully aware of how low-level that kind of consciousness is—and how easily group delusions take over—I moved somewhere where it doesn't matter and doesn't mess with my life.
We can talk semantics now—nationalism versus patriotism as love for one's country. And, of course, as the foundation for building a state (and the unfortunate necessity of defending it from predators).
But for me, it’s all the same evil. American nationalism isn't any better than Mexican nationalism (and the Mexicans claim theirs is just "love for the homeland" too), or Canadian, or Mexican...
"Whenever someone mentions patriotism, I instinctively grab my pocket to make sure my wallet is still there..."

I respect the struggle of the American and Ukrainian people for their freedom, but to me, that has nothing to do with nationalism—which I view as a sort of hooliganism for a sports team. Maybe it's necessary as a way to build an identity and stabilize a personality, but personally? I see it as a necessary evil at best.
Go ahead, keep talking about your extremists and your radicals.

In principle, though, it is "better" and fundamentally different because it's purely defensive—not aggressive, expansionist, or imperialistic. That is a massive distinction.

The same logic applies to the current war in Ukraine; this is a very clear case of a nation defending itself from being conquered and enslaved. Is that Ukrainian nationalism? Yes, but nobody can claim it's the same kind of nationalism as the Russian version.

Nationalism is actually a neutral concept, even if propaganda has twisted it into something negative, especially when people try to equate blame for the conflicts in the US and elsewhere.

Originally, nationalists are simply those who want a sovereign state for their people when one doesn't exist. We saw that with groups like the Basques, the Corsicans, or the Kurds—all in very different contexts.

Following that logic, 😉 anyone carrying an ID or a passport is technically a nationalist because they support, value, or simply utilize the state and the nation they were born into or chose later. If anyone is truly against "nationalism," they should probably just throw away all their identification and wander the world without any national affiliation 🙂 if they want to be consistent with their principles.

Thomas Walker84 said:In principle, though, it is "better" and fundamentally different because it's purely defensive—not aggressive, expansionist, or imperialistic. That is a massive distinction.

The same logic applies to the current war in Ukraine; this is a very clear case of a nation defending itself from being conquered and enslaved. Is that Ukrainian nationalism? Yes, but nobody can claim it's the same kind of nationalism as the Russian version.

Nationalism is actually a neutral concept, even if propaganda has twisted it into something negative, especially when people try to equate blame for the conflicts in the US and elsewhere.

Originally, nationalists are simply those who want a sovereign state for their people when one doesn't exist. We saw that with groups like the Basques, the Corsicans, or the Kurds—all in very different contexts.

Following that logic, 😉 anyone carrying an ID or a passport is technically a nationalist because they support, value, or simply utilize the state and the nation they were born into or chose later. If anyone is truly against "nationalism," they should probably just throw away all their identification and wander the world without any national affiliation 🙂 if they want to be consistent with their principles.

Nina, if you ever decide to run in the elections, let me know. You have my vote.🙂

You don't even have to be a genius to see it. Russia is only as powerful as Europe and America allow them to be. It all comes down to whether we keep buying their stuff or cut them off.