Stages of Spiritual Growth

Dealing with Level 2 isn't exactly a walk in the park; it’s a grind, plain and simple.😁 😉

Potala said:Dealing with level 2 isn't easy. It really isn't.😁 😉

As a moderator under the supervision of Ispodlončić, you probably know that better than anyone...

Adura, once again you are just parroting claims based entirely on faith, lacking any rational or historical foundation.

If the Quran were truly the word of God, the book would be perfect enough that we wouldn't need all these different sects constantly interpreting the same passages in conflicting ways.

I have read the Quran, and my conclusion is that it is simply an imperfect book. While some parts possess spiritual value, there are many sections where that claim just doesn't hold up.

When reading the Quran, one should probably apply some critical thinking—focusing on the elements that actually serve as useful life guidance while ignoring the absurd constructs, like the 72 virgins or the stories regarding "martyrs."
Just as one might choose to ignore Leviticus when reading the Bible, one should arguably ignore Sharia law within the Quran, because those laws clearly lack anything divine. They seem to reflect nothing but human malice and cruelty.

Your insistence that the Quran contains no contradictions and that Muhammad received everything directly from God seems less like an objective observation and more like a case of believing what you want (or are required) to believe.

I regret to note that you aren't much different from the other Quran and Bible fanatics; your spirituality appears to be mostly the rote repetition of taught dogmas without any rational analysis of their various aspects.👎

Much like the Lukićevac crowd, the Christians, and almost every Muslim on this forum, you seem to possess Level 2 qualities.😢

Satir and Kusch said:Since you’re the moderator being watched like a hawk by Scrote, you probably have the best vantage point on this.

I’d also throw in that at level two, humor is basically a foreign concept.😁

Man, Hrvoje, you are seriously exhausting... just a total pain in my neck. Honestly, what am I even supposed to do now that my entire sense of self is hanging by a thread based on your little assessment? I’m absolutely doomed—there’s no way I’m making it into the third round at this rate. Just great... unbelievable...
Like I said before—and I really mean this—all that crap you’re trying to pin on me? It’s gonna come right back to haunt you. Honestly... you reap what you sow, right? You’re judging me by those twisted standards, but eventually, you’re gonna have to stand before that same damn court yourself. Your own judgment is gonna be your undoing...
I thought you were trying to "broaden our horizons" with this post, but honestly? It smells like a total copy-paste job. And then there’s you—sitting there acting like you need to "categorize" everything... give me a break! Who do you think you are, some judge? A lawyer? A mediator? Seriously, if I ever needed a judge, I'd look somewhere else... definitely not here.🙂 ).

M. Scott Peck’s classification

is quite basic—honestly, it feels almost primitive and overly broad when you consider the ultimate mystery: the question of where CONSCIOUSNESS itself originates.

Countless experts have come up with much more sophisticated frameworks
than this elementary school version offered by M. Scott Peck.

If you look at Gurdjieff’s work or even the Enneagram (that nine-fold division), they are lightyears ahead of this simple four-level split.

- With Peck, there isn't even any mention of higher states of consciousness.
(I'm talking about things like Kensho, Satori, or true awakening—those deeper levels of cosmic awareness.)

- Visionaries like

- Robert Anton Wilson
- Timothy Leary
- John C. Lilly

have mapped out and brilliantly described these subtle, higher tiers using much more complex eight-stage models.

- Plus, Buddhist psychology dives into the specific nuances of consciousness levels with incredible detail.

(I'm typing this on the fly, so I don't have time for a deep dive right here.)

But for those of you looking for something a bit more advanced, feel free to bypass this
crude breakdown Peck provides—and how humbly hiddenpuma75 has slotted himself into the fourth floor of some shaky building...

Once he reads Wilson’s Eight-Circuit Model, I'm sure he'll find himself sitting comfortably at level six, seven, or even eight. 🙂
It might be best to just skip this "Intro to Consciousness" class Peck is teaching us.

Here is a link to some sites that actually deal with this subject professionally:

The 8 Levels of Consciousness

I have to say, I’m somewhat in agreement with the hierarchy of levels Hrvoje laid out—though I’d suggest adding at least a fifth level. This would be the stage where the human spirit finally breaks free from its earthly, material shackles and begins striving toward a higher spiritual plane. Of course, since we can't precisely measure things like intellect or the soul, we can't strictly rank these stages either. It’s more like a spatio-temporal scale, stretching from zero all the way to infinity...
Still, isn't assigning specific individuals to certain levels a bit too subjective? It seems highly prone to error.
Besides, just like our intellect and emotions, the human spirit matures and evolves—it builds true value over many years...
At the end of the day, we are all made of the same substance. There is the same spiritual spark—call it divine, or whatever you prefer—flickering within us all, and it only takes a small nudge to set it ablaze...

Ryan Wilson2 said:-Visionaries such as

-Robert Anton Wilson
-Timothy Leary
-John C. Lilly

Have all meticulously developed and brilliantly articulated these subtle, multi-layered frameworks through their expansive, eight-page models.

Well, I suppose I'll just let Ryan Wilson2 take the credit for that one... uhhh...

Alright. But really, what is the point of all this sharing? Is it just a way for those folks at the fourth level to convince themselves they’re the spiritual elite of humanity?
And honestly, who is qualified to claim which level is closer to God? We spend our lives categorizing ourselves by nationality, religion, and endless other labels... It’s all quite futile. I came across a fascinating headline in the paper today: "There is only one man in the world." I haven't actually read the article, nor do I know if it has anything to do with spirituality, but the title struck a chord with me. If you look at it closely, you'll see that there isn't just one man in the world, but rather one single being... much like the undeniable truth we hold in our hearts that there is only one God.

Kenneth Ward8 said:Fine. But honestly, what’s the point of all this sharing? Is it just some way for those folks on the 4th level to convince themselves they're the spiritual crown jewels of humanity?

Hehe, you hit the nail right on the head. 😁
Quote:>

If we really take a closer look, we'll see more than just the fact that there's only one person in the world... we'll see there's actually only one single being... exactly in the same way our hearts know deep down that there is—only one God!

Let me toss a question back at you from that other thread we were having: do you think anyone (anyone at all) is actually going to wrap their head around this? 😁

hiddenpuma75, it’s pretty clear you haven't actually read that book by Scott Peck.

If you had, you would know he's discussing levels of "spiritual or religious" growth rather than the evolution of consciousness that the three authors mentioned here are focusing on. So, I guess the link you posted and your subsequent comment don't really align with this topic; they are simply addressing different things altogether.

Jack Harris3 said:Heh, precisely. 😁

To return the favor of your question from that other thread: do you honestly believe anyone is going to catch on to this? 😁

No. 😉 And frankly, I couldn't care less. If they figure it out, fine; if they don't, let them struggle. 😁
Or, to offer a response inspired by a point made elsewhere—one cannot simply exist at the starting line forever, constantly announcing how they are taking that initial step. For heaven's sake, one actually has to walk, not just stand there after the first stride. The first step is necessary, certainly, but it is utterly insufficient...

I’m with you on that. But let's be real, most people don't go looking for the new stuff. There's just something about that old, beat-up recliner... the one my grandfather used to sit in for years... it's just more comfortable. 😁

Zachary Green2 said:hiddenpuma75, it’s pretty clear you haven't actually sat down with Scott Peck’s work.

If you had, you’d realize he’s discussing levels of "spiritual or religious" growth, which is a different beast entirely from the evolution of consciousness that the three authors we're talking about focus on. So, that link you posted and your whole argument don't really land here—we're simply talking about two different things.

*****
Zachary Green2, it seems you’re very quick to jump to conclusions about people!

Honestly, you'd probably be better off staying quiet and letting people think you're a fool rather than jumping in to refute every single doubt that comes your way. 😁

I have a little library at home with about 2,000 books (though I suppose while some people are busy buying up corporations, others are buying cars, or even just working toward a seat in Congress—I spend my time on books. It's a bit tedious, expensive, and definitely not the "cool" thing to do, but it's what I do when I love reading and debating people who make snap judgments).

I actually own about ten Scott Peck books.
🙂 I’ve read them all, not to spite you, but because a higher power seemed to nudge me in that direction.

His biggest spiritual bestseller is *The Road Less Traveled*, which has three sequels. That first book was a total phenomenon—it stayed on the New York Times bestseller list for about 400 weeks (that’s 7.5 years!!) and sold roughly 5 million copies!

I actually finished the second volume back in 1996 while I was on a long bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco! I was with a female friend who insisted on doing something... let's just say "not typically done on a bus"... and we managed to pull it off right while I was immersed in the second part of *The Road Less Traveled*. It sounds wild, but it’s true. Cross my heart, I’m not making this up!

(For those out of the loop, there's a funny connection to Oreos, but you should probably ask Jack Harris3 about that instead of me, since she’s the one in charge here and I'm not sure if mentioning Oreo advertising is allowed on this forum.) 🙂

I wonder what you were up to back in '96 while I was reading that book?
(Thanks for the trip down memory lane regarding that LA to SF bus ride!) 😎

And it’s in that specific book where he lays out his classification system.
(Some of his other great works include *People of the Lie*, *In Search of Stones*,
*Different Drum*, *The World Waiting to be Born*, and *In Heaven as on Earth*.)

It is quite spicy, though, how he—as a psychiatrist, a husband, and a very devout Christian (he did this at age 42, but hey, nobody's perfect)—confesses in his writings that he had affairs with patients while he was married. But we can save that drama for another thread. 😛
*****

Anyway, the bottom line is that what matters in a person is their level of consciousness, and the link I provided doesn't connect to the topic of spiritual development stages.
You (or rather, that ego of yours that picked the nickname "Zachary Green2" and modestly placed itself at level four of spiritual growth 🙄
—simply can't admit when you're wrong, a point I'm sure several other people on this board have already made to you.)

hiddenpuma75 said:(If you don't get the joke, just assume it's some weird reference to Oreo cookies, but honestly, don't ask me about it—go bother Jack Harris3 instead🙂 ) since she’s basically the boss here and I’m not even sure if she’s allowed to run ads for Oreos on this forum.)

Just so the haters don't go thinking I was that friend! 🙄
Seriously though, I have zero interest in taking credit for stuff I didn't actually do. 😁
Go ahead and promote whatever you want... you could even try selling bus routes at this point... 😁
Honestly, the best part of all this is knowing you actually read it while leaving the heavy lifting to whoever was doing the work... I always thought I was the only one who pulled off that little stunt, so it's a relief to know I'm not alone in that one... 😁

Harvey said:It seems to me that out of all these tiers, the people at Level 2 are actually the easiest to read:

Here’s my take on which members fall into Level 2:

Lewis (

Baphomet is most likely at Level 3, and if we're looking for a candidate for Level 4, it would probably be semargl.

:

By virtue of life circumstances, I know Baphomet quite well.
(We haven't actually met in person in maybe 3 or 4 years, we don't message each other anymore, and I have no idea what's new in his life or vice versa)
(As a side note, Sergije and Vesna mentioned to me that he left his diploma with them)
-
So, we have this somewhat eccentric guy who just recently showed up on the forum (specifically, the one with the "Super" ego—Harvey)

who actually had the audacity, without even a shred of caution, wisdom, or actual insight, to

start classifying people.

For instance, he placed Baphomet on some arbitrary "Level 3" on his little amateur scale...

All I can say is that Baphomet is eons ahead of Harvey when it comes to spiritual maturity.
It’s like comparing an old Commodore 64 from the early 80s to a Pentium III processor.

I honestly wish I could be more like Baphomet:

concise and clear,
subtle (rather than constantly barking like Jack Harris3🙂),
efficient...
composed...
and possessing such deep knowledge of astrology and computing...

hiddenpuma75 hit the nail on the head here, and honestly, it’s spot on:
so, we've got this guy who just showed up on the forum—you know, the one with the massive ego, calling himself "Super Harvey"

who actually had the nerve, without an ounce of caution, wisdom, or actual insight,

to start labeling people.

And then I guess I'm disqualifying myself too:

(instead of just barking incessantly like Jack Harris3🙂 )

Harvey is judging based on posts, which is fair, I guess—but let's be real, Baphomet mostly just writes about craft beer. 😁 It’s easy to get the wrong impression from that alone.
Jack Harris3 is just barking, sure. You're making judgments based on what you read online.
But do you actually know them in person? Is he really that loud, or maybe he's the one pulling the strings behind the scenes?... 🙂

Of course the book matters. I mean, the more you read, the better, right? It just makes me look better too, since the headline will end up being:
"hiddenpuma75 was so distracted by Jack Harris3 that even his book slipped from his hands..."
So, seriously... just grab the best, most interesting one you can find.
🙂