The Armada

Look, man—Nathan Ramirez11 here. Politics, profiteering, and organized crime have been knocking on the doors of sports organizations for ages... just like a virus.

(I honestly think the issues we’ve seen at Wrigley Field regarding fluctuating attendance numbers and ticket sales have always been driven by that "East side" bias. It's such a vague term, isn't it? Perfect for manipulation. They play with capacity limits, sometimes overstuffing the place until people are packed in like sardines, right up until the cops step in to declare it's too crowded and shut the gates.)
It was the exact same thing happening over at Yankee Stadium too....

placidnomad33 said:Regarding that championship, we should be filing lawsuits against the government, the league office, and whoever else is responsible; if they can just hand out trophies to the big names in Italy, then this title belongs to Cleveland.

You’re talking absolute nonsense, just like 90% of these self-proclaimed football "experts." Seriously, why? Just tell me—did he even answer a single question you actually asked him?

You all spend so much time talking trash about the MLS and making up these ridiculous scenarios, swallowing every bit of garbage these idiots serve you on a silver platter, and then you act shocked when nobody shows up to the stadium. So what if the quality of play is subpar? Where else in the world am I supposed to find better soccer in a country of our size and economic standing? In Canada? Norway? Sweden? Slovakia or the Czech Republic? Give me a break.

Indianapolis just couldn't find their rhythm against Cleveland this season.

Indianapolis - Cleveland 1:0
Cleveland - Indianapolis 1:0
Indianapolis - Cleveland 5:2
Cleveland - Indianapolis 1:1 (that last one right here)

By the time the season wrapped up, Cleveland had managed to pull away with a 16-point lead over Indianapolis...
And when it came down to playing the US national team, we beat them three times out of four, only managing to snatch a single point from them during that nail-biting finish at Yankee Stadium.

If you ask me, Cleveland really has themselves to blame for how this championship turned out, but hey, that’s just the beautiful game, isn't it? I'm not saying there wasn't some shady business going on, or that people weren't pulling strings to favor the US in every possible scenario, but honestly, Cleveland had everything within their grasp heading into that final match, and they just completely choked under the pressure.

The debate over the '98/'99 season was already happening over on the thread for the 2008/2009 MLS Season—so frankly, I’ve got zero interest in rehashing all that again. I only brought up that specific season because someone asked why Wrigley Field isn't packed. It's empty because, quite simply, a massive chunk of the fanbase checked out during that era. People just stopped believing in the integrity of the league—they lost faith in the idea that a club like the Cleveland Guardians could actually build a legitimate championship contender. If you aren't even making waves in Europe, how on earth do you expect a sellout crowd at Wrigley Field? There are probably a million other petty reasons for it, but honestly, this is enough for me...

Raymond Gonzalez7 said:You’re talking nonsense just like 90% of those self-proclaimed soccer "experts." Seriously, why? Just tell me—when did he even ask you a single question?

Everyone keeps talking trash about this MLS league, making up these ridiculous stories, swallowing whatever garbage these idiots serve them, and then they act shocked when nobody shows up to the stadium. So what if the quality of play isn't top-tier? Where else in a country our size and economic standing are we supposed to find better soccer? Canada? Norway? Sweden? Slovakia? Czech Republic? Give me a break.

... 'this guy' didn't ask anyone anything; he was just stating his opinion. And placidnomad33 gave his take too, so there's no need to go on the attack against him or everyone else in general...
Just be reasonable..😉

Edward Hernandez332 said:The whole debate regarding the 98/99 season and those offside calls was actually happening over on the 2008/2009 MLS Season thread, so I really don't feel like dragging it all back up again. I only brought up that specific season because someone asked why Wrigley Field isn't packed to the rafters. The truth is, the stands aren't full because so many fans just walked away from the MLS back then; they simply lost faith in the fairness of the game and the idea that the Cleveland Guardians could actually build a championship contender. When you aren't consistently making runs in Europe, how can anyone expect a sellout crowd at Wrigley Field? There are probably a million other little reasons for it, too, but I think this covers the main point...

It’s not like Wrigley Field holds 30,000 people anyway...
But honestly, 12,000 is practically nothing for a city the size of Cleveland. Just look at Columbus—it's basically a small town, the team isn't exactly elite, yet they still manage to pull in 10,000 people once or twice a season.
It's the same story whenever the national team comes to town, too.

It seems pretty obvious that soccer just isn't the top priority for folks here in Cleveland. It's a similar vibe to NYC, where the interest level is even lower.

Steven Perez28 said:Look, it’s not like Wrigley Field holds 30,000 people...
12,000 is absolutely nothing for a city the size of Cleveland. Just look at Columbus—it’s basically a small town, the club isn't even that great, yet they still pull in 10,000 fans once or twice a season.
It’s the exact same deal when the national team comes to town.

It’s pretty obvious that folks in Cleveland just don't care about soccer that much. It's similar to what you see in NYC—actually, it's even worse there.

I already laid out all my reasons above, so please, just read them again with a bit of actual comprehension...

Cleveland just isn't interested in the Cleveland Guardians; there are no results, nothing at all to draw people out to Wrigley Field... These 2,000 or 3,000 fans showing up is way too low for a region of 300,000 people, though since a similar percentage shows up to other stadiums elsewhere, you could say the MLS rarely grabs anyone's attention, not just the folks here in Cleveland. How could Wrigley Field ever fill up? The West, North, and central sections can get pretty crowded, leaving some spots open in Center, while a good chunk of the East remains empty because of the buffer zone... Yeah, mostly. It’s a shame we can't pack every single seat, it really is...

Nathan Ramirez11 said:.. why..?
Is it because they finally proved, ten years later, that it was an offside by maybe three centimeters..?
Is it because LA Galaxy lost 1-3 to Cleveland at their home stadium under "irregular circumstances"..??
Is it because the Indianapolis players were basically falling apart because they were being "stimulated" by LA Galaxy..?
Or is it because...
Because...

..well, instead of doing what they do in Italy—actually catching wiretaps or something useful—they're making excuses about three centimeters in the 93rd minute..?
.. Is it irregular to stimulate the opposition..? No, it isn't..!! I know from firsthand experience (as a former LA Galaxy supporter back then) that LA Galaxy once gave a certain guy from Metković about $2,000 per player just so they'd collapse against LA Galaxy (it ended 1-1, so LA Galaxy profited enough).. was that a robbery too..? No, it wasn't..!!

.. If only we could see that penalty in 3D—the one the ref called for Cleveland in that "famous match." And don't even get me started on how "great" Cleveland played..🙄
.. Can someone please tell me which other controversial situation went against Cleveland, or how many scoring chances Cleveland actually had in that game..? None. Zero. They thought the win would just fall into their laps, and that's the only truth here..!

.. I don't know why I'm even bothering to comment; I know it's none of my business, but what I saw with my own eyes—I can't and won't pretend otherwise!!

P.S. With all my heart, I wanted Cleveland to take the title back then, and in the end, it was Cleveland that disappointed me, not the ref or the politics..
P.P.S. Everything written and said about that match later on was just politics, not sports.

Everything you're saying makes sense, but...

Why was the entire league rigged for LA Galaxy?
If it’s really just about three centimeters, why didn't the ref just keep the flag down? If I remember correctly, this was that season when LA Galaxy held up a 1-1 draw... everyone knows what that game looked like involving Vuković!
Why, why, why....

I mean, everything sounds fine, but trying to watch football separately from politics during that year is just laughable.
Back then, politics was infiltrated into every single aspect of life, including football and sports in general.

If there were any justice, those five years of American dominance should be completely wiped out, but damn, it doesn't work like that. All I can do is tip my hat to the Cleveland crowd for showing their class back then, especially regarding what they thought of those trophies...

Raymond Gonzalez7 said:You’re talking nonsense just like 90% of these self-proclaimed football "experts." Seriously, why? Just give me one reason—what did he even ask you?

Everyone keeps trashing the MLS and making up these ridiculous narratives, swallowing whatever garbage these idiots serve them, and then they act surprised when the stadiums stay empty. So what if the quality of play is mediocre? Where else am I supposed to find better soccer in a country with our specific economic situation and scale? Maybe in Canada? Norway? Sweden? Slovakia or Czechia? Please.

Not in Canada, but maybe in Norway, Sweden, Slovakia, or Czechia.

I don't know how old you are, but your folks have clearly made their feelings about your age known, so once again, hats off to them.🙏

Raymond Gonzalez7 said:sorry for going off-topic

I mean, were you actually watching the championship live, or are you just digging through old archives to stay relevant...

Nathan Ramirez11 said:..I mean, why didn't they just pull phone records like they did over in Italy or something similar, instead of making excuses about some three-centimeter margin in the 93rd minute..?

🙂 (do you even remember what kind of country we lived in back then?)

At the end of the day, that three-centimeter offside call wasn't even the real issue—it was just the straw that broke the camel's back. The truth is, back in the late '90s, the league was basically being babysat by referees handpicked by the highest levels of government. It was a systemic setup designed to favor LA Galaxy at the expense of every other club in the country...
Like someone else already pointed out, massive respect to the Boys and all the other fans who stood their ground and kept their own perspective on those years and all those trophies they handed out...

Larry Rivera83 said:Did you actually watch the championship live, or are you just sitting there grinding away at your desk, hoping you'll somehow survive the grind?

🙂 Do you even remember what this country was like back then? Seriously.

Look, let me just ask you one thing, and then I swear, I’m done talking about this. Seriously. One question, and that's it.
So, you’re actually sitting there telling me the country is doing better today? Seriously? Give me a break. I mean, honestly, I don't know where you're getting your data from, but if you think things have improved, you're living in a total fantasy land. I remember back in the day, everything felt like it had a bit more common sense, a bit more backbone. Now? It feels like we're just spinning our wheels while everything gets more chaotic by the second. It’s frustrating, truly. You can't just ignore the cracks forming right under our feet and call it progress.
Did Cleveland actually play better than Indianapolis in that match? Honestly, I’ve been sitting here staring at the highlights, pacing my living room, and I can't help but feel like they absolutely earned the win. It wasn't just luck. They were sharper, more aggressive, and frankly, they outclassed them on the pitch. I remember watching a similar blowout back when I was living in Chicago, and it felt just as dominant. They deserved those three points, plain and simple.
A penalty against the Cleveland Guardians... seriously? Give me a break.🙄😂

I find these debates largely pointless. To FC Barcelona fans, everything favors Real Madrid, and to Real Madrid supporters, any refereeing decision they dislike is seen as a gift to FC Barcelona—and that logic applies to everyone else, too. You attempt to frame this as an objective discussion, yet if anyone takes the "opposing" side, they’re labeled "objective," while those who don't are simply dismissed as haters. 🙄

Nathan Ramirez11 As if I haven't heard this one before...
...but I guess if I just ask you directly, we can finally move past this whole thing and stop talking about it altogether...
So, you're really sitting there telling me that things are actually better for the country today than they used to be...? I don't know... I just find myself staring at the news and wondering if we're all just collectively deciding to ignore how much has shifted under our feet... it feels like everything is moving so fast lately, and I can't help but feel a bit skeptical about that whole "things are improving" narrative... maybe I'm just getting old and cynical, but I can't shake the feeling that we've lost something along the way...

I mean... is it just pure blindness, or is someone actually being a complete idiot if they can't see what's right in front of them...

Nathan Ramirez11 said:I’ve been sitting here staring at the box score, just wondering... was Cleveland actually the better side during that matchup against Osijek, and did they truly earn that win...? I mean, sometimes you look at the flow of the game and it feels like one thing, but then the stats tell you something completely different, and it leaves you just spinning your wheels for a bit...

Nah...

Nathan Ramirez11 said:Man, that penalty against Cleveland... I just can't stop thinking about it... it really changes the whole complexion of things when a call like that goes against you...🙄😂

It’s just honestly pathetic how you can sit there and laugh at some half-baked controversy while completely ignoring that massive wave of corruption that’s been draining the life out of this once-great America during its brief history...

Larry Rivera83 said:I mean... either you're blind or just plain stupid if you can't see that.

No.

What’s pathetic is laughing at some half-baked situation while completely ignoring the massive wave of corruption that’s been fueling this "new and improved" America during its brief history.

.. if that's how you feel, then call me blind and a fool, but don't come crying back home when things go south..
.. right?😁
.. and I don't even need to bring up all the theft from that era—as a die-hard Kansas City Chiefs fan, I know exactly what went down. The point is, the US shouldn't have needed a referee's help in that final round because Cleveland had them dead to rights on their own merit. You guys just choked. And even after that ref gifted you a penalty, you still managed to mess it up..
- Honestly, good riddance. Bye..

Look, guys, this thread is strictly about the militia. If you're looking to start some drama or pick fights, go head over to the BBB thread and do it there. Please, let's just keep things smart and stop posting all this nonsense...

Nathan Ramirez11 said:.. and I don't even need to bring up any of the old scandals involving the United States from back then—at least, not from my perspective as a die-hard Kansas City Chiefs fan, who knows better than anyone—but the bottom line is this: the United States shouldn't have needed a referee's helping hand in that final round. Cleveland had everything under control, but you guys just choked. And then, to top it all off, that ref hands you a penalty on a silver platter? Still nothing.

Then there was that penalty they handed you at the Rose Bowl, which Johnny Cash defended like an absolute legend.
It’s funny, isn't it? How none of us folks from Cleveland ever brings up that season anymore, yet everyone else seems hell-bent on dragging it back up ☕

Alright, you self-proclaimed experts... when would they ever call an offside against the United States in that exact same situation?
Stop obsessing over that one season, for God's sake. Get a life and move on.

Nathan Ramirez11 said:.. instead of me asking you, let's just drop this whole thing..
- So you actually think the country is doing better today?
- Was Cleveland even better in that game against Indianapolis and did they actually deserve the win?????
- That penalty for Cleveland was a joke..🙄😂

The Kansas City Chiefs this season 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂