The Armada

First off—Andrew White32, let him be. He’s entitled to his own opinion, so there's no need to nitpick his wording.

rowdyridge19 said:Why should we dwell on the past? I wish things were like they were back when we first hit the big leagues, or even during the nineties, but that’s not our reality now. What good is crying about what used to be? We ought to focus on how to improve the group today so we can regain that former strength...
I find the current trend just as exhausting—this idea that everyone needs to show up in designer sneakers and, as you put it, have a polished, high-end terrace presence. But when we discuss the state of these groups, it becomes clear that the fleet is being pushed into the background due to the progress made by Cohort and the demon.

We can rationalize anything if we try hard enough; ultimately, it all comes down to perception and, frankly, personal bias. I recall an individual from the East Coast commenting on the attendance numbers of Cohort versus the fleet in a major US city, essentially asking, "Why look at just one game?" It seems he decided to cherry-pick roughly 324 days where Cohort perhaps leads the fleet by a mere two points in "ultra" metrics (😁 ). If one were to examine a slightly longer timeframe, his little spreadsheets and calculations would fall apart instantly. I believe someone else already noted this, and I agree: the issue isn't necessarily that Cohort is superior, but rather that our fleet has developed a taste for something more substantial. That doesn't mean they are inferior, nor does it mean they've been eclipsed. One only has to look at the rivalry between the Red Sox and the Yankees to see where the true respect lies and which direction the momentum is shifting...
The fleet had a better showing at the stadium recently than the Yankees did, yet it didn't occur to them to claim they were now superior to the New Yorkers, because that simply isn't the reality. Both sides possess the capacity for much larger endeavors. On the other hand, you certainly had plenty of people from the Midwest screaming last year about how they were currently outperforming the Yankees. 🙄

edit: I originally wrote a massive post here, but I've trimmed it down since I found myself spiraling into endless philosophizing. 🙄 I am confident that my perspective is closer to the truth, and until I am presented with actual, superior arguments from Cohort itself, I have no intention of reconsidering my stance... that is all.

Regards,

@Patrick Clark21/">@@Patrick Clark21, let’s not bring the old guard into this discussion, and please, don't try to put words in our mouths. As far as I can tell, there isn't a single veteran supporter in this thread anyway. This is just your typical, classic online sports fan debate, isn't it? 😁 Everyone needs to stop stressing over who's on top right now, because honestly, one day it's us, the next day it's you, and eventually, it'll be some other team entirely—that's just how the game works. But of course, rivals are going to take shots at each other; I mean, look at the hundreds of die-hard fans hanging out in the boys' thread just to poke fun at their latest kits.

Patrick Clark21 said:First off—Andrew White32, cut it out. Let the guy have his opinion.

We can pretty much spin anything to make it look true if we want to. It’s all about perception and, honestly, who you personally root for. Take that one guy from the Midwest—he commented on the crowd sizes for the Cohort and the Fleet, saying something like, "Why focus on just one game?" Basically, he’s cherry-picking those ~324 days where the Cohort maybe holds a tiny two-point lead over the Fleet in ultra points (😁 ). If you looked at any slightly longer timeframe, his little spreadsheets and math would fall apart instantly. I think someone already pointed this out, and they're right: it isn't really about the Cohort. It's just that our Fleet is used to something bigger. That doesn't mean they're worse, and it definitely doesn't mean they've been eclipsed. Just look at how groups like the Celtics or the Lakers compare—where do they feel more intense, and which way are they heading when it comes to earning respect?
The Fleet had a better showing at the stadium than the local guys did today, but even they didn't act like they were suddenly better than the city crowd, because they know reality when they see it. Both sides have the capacity for much bigger things. On the other hand, you had those folks from the outskirts screaming last year about how they were currently tougher than the city teams 🙄

Edit: I wrote a massive essay here, but I trimmed it down because I caught myself spiraling into endless philosophy. 🙄 I'm pretty sure my take is closer to the truth, and until someone brings some actual solid arguments against the Cohort, I don't see any reason to change my mind... so there.

Later.

Prik, tell me... where's it harder to have a decent debate? Here, or in those history forums? 😕...😁

I won't do it again, I promise. But someone had to upgrade this group so it actually looks decent again. 😁 I get what he was getting at, but the way it turned out was legendary—absolute classic, if you ask me. I just had to jump in, and once I started, I couldn't stop. Honestly, it's fine; they won't be traumatized by it. 😁

Pretty soon we’ll have dedicated ultras classes in schools..🤣

Look, I’m calling on everyone in the fan club and all you Cleveland supporters out there: don't fall for this garbage being peddled here. Seriously, stop buying into it. It doesn't matter if we hit a rough patch or how much propaganda other people try to spin—we are still the third biggest group in the country, right behind the Wildcats fans and BBB. People love trying to diminish us, acting like we don't measure up, but honestly? On pretty much every single metric, we're standing toe-to-toe with them. Whether you look at our away numbers, the turnout for those smaller home games, the massive crowds at the derbies, or even just the sheer quality and volume of our choreos, banners, and pyro... or even how we back the national team, the originality of our chants, or just the raw energy of the way we chant (though I’m not sure what the demons are doing lately).

Actually, scratch "standing toe-to-toe"—in certain areas like the choreos, following the national squad, and showing up for the big derby matches, we are miles ahead!! And when you factor in those huge wins, we’re still holding a clear lead over the Cohort, the demons, and the rest of them.

Now, regarding the whole hooligan scene... that's a different conversation entirely. Sure, it's true there was that recent mess where things got a bit lax, and a few other times where we dropped the ball, but the media machines for the other groups have turned those hiccups into "massive victories" for themselves. That's just how they play it. But let's be real: we've had incredible trips abroad that nobody else could touch, we've seen blood spilled, and we've stood our ground against our biggest enemies more times than I can count. Also, I don't know how much you guys follow local news, but it's common knowledge that the local police department here does their job better than anyone else. If they can be the best at taking down organized crime, believe me, they have the tools to handle hooliganism too.

And one more thing: give some respect to the work others are putting in. No matter how much you might want to trash us, you have to admit that some of the people typing these posts probably bled for their own groups just to get to a level where they could even be mentioned in the same sentence as us. The only reason they're even in the conversation is because we took a hit. Plus, a lot of what we have now—the culture, the traditions—was built from nothing by the older generation. Yeah, maybe hitting our current numbers isn't impossible for someone today, but you can't forget that someone had to start from zero to build this foundation!

At the end of the day, you've gotta have respect for any supporter. These are people who sacrifice everything, sometimes even their lives, just to see their club and their group thrive. They don't just do it for the glory; they do it because they live for the ideal, and that kind of devotion is what matters most. And let's face it, being a fan these days is a nightmare. Between the constant crackdown from the authorities and the total lack of understanding from the powers that be, it's a brutal, uphill battle...

bluewalker92 said:I’m calling on everyone in the fan club and all the Cleveland supporters: don't fall for this nonsense being peddled here... Regardless of our recent slump, or all this outside propaganda, we’re still the third biggest group (right behind the Wildcats fans and BBB). No matter how much people try to devalue us across the board, we’re at least on equal footing. If you look at away numbers, attendance at small home games, derby turnout, the quality and sheer volume of choreographies and banners, the pyrotechnics, following the national team, or even the originality of our chants—not to mention the way we show up (though I'm not sure where the demons stand there)

We aren't just equal in those areas; in some segments—like the displays, traveling for the national team, and handling the big derbies—we are actually miles ahead!! And those massive wins in specific categories still give us the edge over the Cohort, the demons, and the rest of them!

As for the hooligan stuff, that’s a different conversation. It’s true things have been messy lately; there were times we slackened off and others where we fell short, which the propaganda machines have twisted into "huge victories" for them. But we’ve also had great trips abroad that no one else could pull off, and there have been plenty of scraps and heavy resistance against our biggest rivals. Also, I don't know how you guys follow local news, but it's common knowledge that the Cleveland police do their job better than anyone. If they can be the best at taking down organized crime, trust me, they have the methods to handle hooliganism too.

I also want to say: stop undermining everyone else's hard work. No matter how much you spit on us, you have to admit that some of the people typing here probably bled to improve their own groups just to reach a level where they could even be compared to us. They only got that chance because we hit a rough patch. Plus, a lot of what we carry today was built by the old guard over a long time; even if it's easy to scrape together the same number of people nowadays, they had to start from nothing!

Beyond that, you’ve got to respect every single fan. Fans are people who sacrifice everything for the sake of the club and the group. They don't just do it for fun; they do it out of pure passion, and that kind of devotion to an ideal is what deserves the most respect... And we all know what the life of a fan is like these days—tough and filled with obstacles due to the crackdown and lack of understanding from the authorities...

Man, you really laid it all out from A to Z, didn't you? Just a complete breakdown of how things stand...☕
But there's something else that matters, and I guess we'll see when those clowns come flying back in, whining about how the fan club is dead, living in the past, or how we need to "return to the glory days"🤣...and then what? Will the others just increase their membership by 100 people at home and suddenly everything will be "super cool"? Yeah, right...🙏
bluewalker92...👍

bluewalker92 said:I’m calling on everyone in the fan club and all the Cleveland supporters to stay sharp—don't fall for this nonsense being peddled here... Regardless of any recent setbacks, and regardless of whatever propaganda others are pushing, we remain the third largest group—right behind the Wildcats fans and BBB. Even if people try to diminish us at every turn, we are, by any reasonable metric, on equal footing. If you look at away game numbers, attendance at smaller home matches, derby turnout, the sheer quality and frequency of our choreographies and banners, the amount of pyrotechnics we bring, how we support the national team, or even the originality of our chants—not to mention the way we carry ourselves, which people always seem to forget (though I am not entirely sure where the demons fit into that equation)...

Not only are we on par in those areas, but in certain specific segments—choreography, traveling with the national team, showing up for the big derbies—we are actually miles ahead!! And those massive advantages, combined with the areas where we are equals, still give us the edge over the Cohort, the demons, and the rest of them!

As for the hooligan side of things, that’s a different conversation entirely. It is true that there have been some recent incidents where things got loose, and a few other times where we fell short—but those moments have been twisted by outside propaganda machines to look like their great victories. Yet, we’ve had incredible trips abroad that others couldn't dream of, there has been blood spilled, and plenty of resistance against our biggest rivals. Also, I don't know how much you follow domestic news, but it is widely known that the local police in Cleveland do their jobs better than anyone else. If they can be the best at taking down organized crime, believe me, they have the methods to handle hooliganism too...

Furthermore, I urge people not to disrespect the efforts of others. No matter how much someone might spit on us, one has to admit that some of the people typing on these forums probably bled for their groups just to reach a level where they could even be compared to us. And they were only able to get to that point because we stumbled. Much of what we inherited from the older generation took years of hard work to build—and while it might not be hard to match our current numbers today, they had to start from nothing!

Beyond that, there needs to be respect for every single supporter. Fans are people who sacrifice and give their lives for the betterment of the club and the group; they don't just do it for the thrill, but because they act out of pure idealism—and that kind of devotion is what deserves the most respect... though we all know how difficult the path for a fan is these days, given the repression and lack of understanding from the authorities... it's a thorny road...

AMEN! 🙏👍

Look, you don't just become an elite group overnight because you had a couple of decent seasons... With their whole history, their specific vibe, and the crew they run with, the fan club is easily top three in the country, and honestly, it’ll take a hell of a long time before anyone even gets close to them... plus, if I’m reading the room right, they’re actually leveling up themselves lately.
Of course, major props to Cohort, the demons, and Gademz for how they showed up this year, but we're talking about the fan club here. No matter how much friction there is between our two groups, I've got nothing but respect for what they do.

Look, any sane person would back our fan club, that’s never even been up for debate...
The energy from the supporters this season has been absolutely massive, and honestly, isn't that exactly what every single fan wants to see?

Kenneth Campbell64 said:Any sane person would give our fan club credit, so there’s really no debate there...
The atmosphere this season has been pretty intense, and honestly, I think having a loud, active crowd is a win for everyone involved...

Facts.👍

Kenneth Campbell64 said:Any sane person respects the fan club; there’s never been any doubt about that...
The atmosphere this season feels pretty robust, which I suppose serves every supporter well enough...

I wouldn't go that far, though...
While there are plenty of different groups scattered across Major League Soccer right now, the reality is quite grim...
There just aren't enough people involved. Aside from the Wildcats fans and the Boys, most groups are dragging maybe fifty people along to away games on average...
As for the Boys, they've been a total disaster for two seasons now, almost as if they've vanished entirely. They seem content with those superficial, "pretty boy" away trips, but you won't see them at the stadium at all—because for a group like that, it simply isn't worth bothering with those hundred or so kids hanging out in the north stands...

I’m totally with bluewalker92 on this one—it’s honestly pretty pathetic seeing what’s happening with the guys in the city...
The Wildcats fans are hands down the undisputed number one in America this season...
Between the Armada, the Cohort, and the demons... every single group is on the rise. It’s a fact that away trips are pulling in about 50 to 60 people on average now, even though there were maybe 200 demons and Armada members at the stadium—honestly, they practically outnumbered BBB in the north section.
The ultras are basically the one constant in our scene; everyone knows exactly what to expect from them, so hats off to those guys!
As for Gademz... they’re a total breath of fresh air for the scene. The guys have their own unique style and I respect that, they just need to keep that same energy.
Tornado? The guys are putting in the work and showing up for away games... they just need to stay consistent.
The funcuts are active too, though I’m expecting much better shows from them considering Savannah is sitting right at the top of Major League Soccer.
WS... they're kind of stalling. I don't see much progress, but hey, they can still pull off some great displays when they want to...
Our scene is actually pretty lively this season, it's just that BBB is in a massive slump...

I don’t mean to step in here, but let’s be real: the American supporter scene is pretty limited for a million different reasons. Anyone who has been sitting in the stands for 15 or 20 years knows exactly what I’m talking about. The newcomers will figure it out once they’ve actually put in 15 years on the terraces (God willing).

What you guys are debating has probably happened five times already since Major League Soccer began.
The heavy hitters always remain at the top, and everyone knows who those people are. Us, the boys, and the fan club!

If this isn't clicking for you—which is understandable for the younger crowd—then go look up old photos from ten or more years ago of the antitalent, the legion, and the White Stones... and see where they ended up.

@bluewalker92/">@@bluewalker92, who exactly are you writing these manifestos for? What’s the point? Who are you trying to justify yourself to?

John Perez13 said:@bluewalker92/">@@bluewalker92, who exactly are you writing these manifestos for? Who are you trying to impress? What's the point of all this justifying?

Look, I'm not answering to anyone. Period. I’m just posting this for the guys in my own circle so they don't fall for the absolute garbage being spewed on these forums every single day. Yeah, most people out there hate our guts because we’re "us against the world," and sure, maybe there aren't many honest fans left who can look past the hate and admit we still matter. And fine, maybe other groups have better photo ops or spend way more on their social media hype, but that doesn't mean we're washed up.

Fan forums today? They're pure trash. In the grand scheme of things, they carry about as much weight as some random bottom-tier comment section on a news site. I just don't want our younger guys—the kids coming up through the ranks—to read this stuff and think their dedication or their passion doesn't count for anything. But honestly, even though I'm typing this out, I doubt I can stop the majority from being bombarded by sheer stupidity and propaganda 24/7.

Besides, I think we passed that point a long time ago. We shouldn't let the insults slow us down. If anything, all the disrespect and the constant bashing is just going to make us tighter. It'll only make us stronger.

bluewalker92 said:I don't owe anyone an explanation. I tell my own group to ignore the nonsense being peddled on these forums every single day. Just because most people hate us because we’re "us against the world," and because there are so few honest fans left who will admit our value despite all the hate—or because other groups have flashier photo ops and bigger marketing budgets—doesn't mean we're finished.

Fan forums these days are absolute garbage; they're basically the digital version of some bottom-tier tabloid site. I don't want our younger guys reading this stuff to think their passion and hard work don't matter. But even as I say this, I doubt most people can be saved from the constant bombardment of stupidity and propaganda.

Honestly, I think we passed that point a long time ago. Once people start trying to hold us back with insults, all they're doing is making us stronger. From here on out, the disrespect and the trash talk will only fuel us!

In my opinion, you guys in the fan club are just acting foolish by letting random idiots get under your skin. There isn't even a debate about who the third group is; you guys are way above the rest. Look at how the Cohort is having their best season ever while you're having your worst, yet they aren't any better than you. So what happens when you actually step up? Stop paying attention to the trolls. I want to see you get back to your glory days as soon as possible👍, just like we are

John Perez13 said:Look, I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but let's be real: the American supporter scene is pretty damn limited for a million different reasons. Anyone who's been sitting in the stands for 15 or 20 years knows exactly what I'm talking about. The newbies will figure it out once they've actually put in their time—if they even make it that far, God willing.

Everything you guys are yapping about—this whole "renaissance" of the supporter movement—has definitely happened at least five times since Major League Soccer kicked off.
And the same heavy hitters always come out on top, and we all know exactly who those are. It's us, the boys, and the fan club!

If you're too young to get what I'm saying, then go do some digging. Look up old photos from over 10 years ago of the antitalent, the legion, or the White Stones... and see where they ended up.

@bluewalker92/">@@bluewalker92, who exactly are you writing these manifestos for? What's the point? Who are you trying to justify yourself to?

I'm with most of you, except for that one bolded part... You seriously forgot to mention the ultras Vk! Why aren't they in the conversation? Sure, they might not match the sheer numbers of the fan club, but they have a rock-solid crew and deep traditions. They're always showing up for the national team. I've never understood why people leave them out of these debates, because those guys are the real deal!👍 Shout out to the ultras! See you guys in Cleveland for the national game...

John Perez13 said:Look, I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but let's be real—the American supporter scene is pretty damn limited, and there are a million reasons why. Anyone who’s been sitting in the stands for 15 or 20 years knows exactly what I'm talking about. The rookies? They'll figure it out once they've actually put in 15 years on the ground (God willing).

All this stuff you guys are yapping about? We've seen this "renaissance" of the supporter movement happen at least five times since Major League Soccer even started.
And guess what? The heavy hitters always remain. And we all know who that means. Us, the boys, and the fan club!

If you haven't a clue what I'm getting at—and I'm talking to the younger crowd here—then go look up old photos from ten or more years ago of the antitalent, the legion, or the White Stones... and see where they ended up.

@bluewalker92/">@@bluewalker92, who are you even writing these manifestos for? What's the point? Who are you trying to justify yourself to?

John Perez13, listen, having been active in the supporter world for over a decade, I know exactly what you're talking about... It's always been the Wildcats fans, then BBB, then the fan club... just a huge void followed by the rest of the scene. But now, that gap between the fan club and everyone else isn't really there anymore because certain other groups have stepped their game up to a whole new level. Time will tell if this sticks for the long haul, or if the next generational shift is going to cause some groups to crash while others take off...

Keith Ramos5 said:I’m on board with most of this—except for that one part in bold... I really think you should have included the ultras too! Why are they being left out? Sure, maybe they can't match the sheer numbers of the fan club—though even then, they hold their own—but they have a steady crew, deep roots, and they show up for the national team every single time... It’s always baffled me why they get skipped over in these discussions, because those guys are the real deal! 👍 Shout out to the ultras! See you all in Cleveland for the national game...

They probably don't get mentioned because they aren't active on the internet... right?

As for the other groups and how this season is shaping up... I just hope to God the scene gets stronger and grows with a steady stream of solid groups... that's the only way everyone can actually level up and move forward...

Samuel Evans86 said:As for all the other bands and how this season is looking... I just pray to God that the local scene actually gets stronger and grows bigger with a constant stream of solid new acts... that’s the only way anyone's gonna move up and make it big...

That's pretty much it. 👍