US Grand Prix (Indianapolis Motor Speedway) Sept 27-29, 2019

ruggedhawk20 said:Show me the proof.

Proof that Mercedes has had better race pace over the last three races? Please. In both Singapore and Monza, both Mercedes drivers were catching up to Leclerc. Then in Singapore, Leclerc practically had to drive like he was on a Sunday stroll just to avoid getting undercut by those faster Mercedes cars since he couldn't pull away. It’s pretty obvious if you actually bother to watch the race.

wiredfalcon2 said:the weather reports are calling for epic rain on Saturday, but apparently it clears up by 3 PM:
https://www.yr.no/place/Russia/Krasn...ochi/long.html

Maybe it’ll actually hit qualifying around 2 PM.
And then the race is at 1:10 PM on Sunday—just so nobody loses their mind.🙂

wiredseal7 said:Maybe they'll move qualifying to around 2 PM.
And then have the race on Sunday at 1:10 just so we don't lose our minds.🙂

We're all praying for that.

During lap 61 of the Singapore GP, Leclerc was:
- faster than Lewis Hamilton in 36 sectors
- faster than Valtteri Bottas in 35 sectors

During lap 61 of the Singapore GP, Vettel was:
- faster than Lewis Hamilton in 35 sectors
- faster than Valtteri Bottas in 38 sectors

Just noting that impressive Mercedes race pace.

Jason Campbell70 said:On lap 61 in Singapore, Leclerc was:
- faster than Lewis Hamilton in 36 of them
- faster than Valtteri Bottas in 35 of them

On lap 61 in Singapore, Vettel was:
- faster than Lewis Hamilton in 35 of them
- faster than Valtteri Bottas in 38 of them

Just look at that Mercedes race pace.

Now look at yours...
On lap 34, before he retired, Russell was:
- faster than Lewis Hamilton in 16 of them
- faster than Max Verstappen in 17 of them
- faster than Valtteri Bottas in 18 of them
- faster than Alexander Albon in 18 of them

So if that scary crash against the wall hadn't happened, we probably would've seen Williams scoring points, right?🙂 Maybe even on the podium.👋

And if Williams was clearly the second fastest team in terms of race pace in Singapore according to your math...😁
Then the only team with both drivers being almost as fast as Russell was Ferrari...

If Russell had shown better race pace than Leclerc right at the start, I probably would have called it out myself one of these days.

Jason Campbell70 said:I actually wrote on another thread that Russell had better race pace than Leclerc at the start of the race.

Yeah, but he also had a better overall race pace than both Red Bull and Mercedes. 😍

stormybadger8 said:Yeah, but he actually had a better overall race pace than both Red Bull and Mercedes. 😍

Even with those completely off-base comparisons and all that crystal ball gazing, there's still nothing from Ferrari.
And we're talking about Ferrari's race pace here.

Remarkable.

Jason Campbell70 said:During lap 61 of the Singapore GP, Leclerc was:
- faster than Lewis Hamilton in 36 of them
- faster than Valtteri Bottas in 35 of them

During lap 61 of the Singapore GP, Vettel was:
- faster than Lewis Hamilton in 35 of them
- faster than Valtteri Bottas in 38 of them

Just some more proof of that superior Mercedes race pace.

But hold on, we already walked you through this and you're still looping back to the same thing. Why?

By the way, if you want to discuss race pace, let's stick to actual lap times throughout the full race. Anything else? Please, just skip me.

Fresh eyes here: would George Russell have finished in the points if he hadn't collided with Grožan? All those "what if" arguments... I honestly couldn't care less. I'll be ignoring them with absolute pleasure. 👍

Jason Campbell70 said:BTW, if you want to talk about race pace based on anything other than actual lap times over the whole distance, just leave me out of it.

Why would anyone even bother using irrelevant data for this debate? Lewis Hamilton driving behind Leclerc doesn't tell you a single thing about how fast he’d actually be in clean air, which is the only thing that matters when we're talking about race pace. Seriously, you're wrong again.🤷

We barely even caught a glimpse of the true Mercedes race pace; all we saw from Lewis Hamilton was his peak performance once his tires were already shot during that first stint, and that was about it.
Following that, and leading up to it, we just witnessed desperate attempts to hunt down Leclerc and Max Verstappen.

Similarly, we only saw the full extent of Leclerc's race pace during that chase for Sebastian Vettel right before the safety car came out.

Vettel likely showed his best rhythm early in the second stint and during the undercut.

Max didn't get much opportunity to establish a rhythm either, and Alexander Albon certainly didn't, given he's basically a Gastly compared to Max.

If I had to make a snap judgment, I'd say Ferrari and Mercedes were almost dead even on race pace, though perhaps giving a slight edge to Mercedes since they actually had the chance to stretch their legs.

In short, Leclerc absolutely wrecked any meaningful race pace statistics in that first stint, especially when you factor in that safety car which killed whatever tiny hope we had of actually watching a real race pace unfold.

By the end, everyone was just a mess of different tire compounds—some on fresh rubber, some on hards, others on Medium—so once again, we weren't actually observing actual race pace.

To put it bluntly, your algorithms for detecting race pace are useless and completely worthless.

Jason Campbell70 said:During lap 61 of the Singapore Grand Prix, Leclerc was:
- faster than Lewis Hamilton in 36 of them
- faster than Valtteri Bottas in 35 of them

During lap 61 of the Singapore Grand Prix, Vettel was:
- faster than Lewis Hamilton in 35 of them
- faster than Valtteri Bottas in 38 of them

And now he’s gonna turn around and claim Prstek didn't deserve that win again!? 🤣

mellowtiger83 said:We barely even caught a glimpse of Mercedes' actual race pace. All we saw was Lewis Hamilton's full pace once his tires were already shot in the first stint, and that was about it...
...Basically, your algorithms for calculating race pace are absolute garbage.

Who are you actually trying to explain this to, Jason Campbell70 or someone else?
If it's Jason Campbell70, then this is just a complete slap in the face to his stats.

Because how could Lewis have lost if his race pace wasn't worse!?
His pace was slower than Valtteri Bottas, and in the last two races, he only managed to scrape ahead in Singapore.

Look, sometimes the reasons for failure are just incredibly stupid and unexpected.
Maybe it was the new haircut? 🤔



Or maybe a new girlfriend? 🤔



View on instagram

Roger Wright94 said:Are you trying to explain this to Jason Campbell70 or someone else?
If it's for Jason Campbell70, then this is just a complete load of garbage compared to his actual stats.

Because how could Lewis have lost if he didn't have inferior race pace!?
His race pace was worse than Valtteri Bottas, and in the last two races, though he somehow managed to stay ahead in Singapore.

Look, the reasons for failure can sometimes be completely banal and unexpected.
Maybe it was a new haircut? 🤔



Or perhaps a new girlfriend? 🤔



View on instagram

I am explaining it to everyone; I believe Mercedes had the best race pace, but unfortunately, they couldn't demonstrate it.
Ferrari was very close, nearly identical, while Red Bull was lagging quite a bit.
Bottas is a non-entity; it's just that Mercedes wouldn't let him ahead of Lewis due to some idiotic, compromised tactical bullshit.

Bottas never possessed the race pace that Lewis has.

mellowtiger83 said:Valtteri Bottas never had the race pace that Lewis Hamilton did.

Valtteri Bottas actually hits race pace levels similar to Lewis Hamilton quite often...
The thing is, for Bottas, that’s basically his absolute limit. For Lewis, it’s more like he’s running in some kind of "economy mode" where he’s just babysitting the tires, the car, the power unit, and whatever else, while still having plenty of juice left if he actually decides to floor it.

But here’s the real kicker: are their cars even identical? Are they using the exact same power units? Do they even have access to the same engine modes or software? We don't know if Bottas actually has the full power of that engine at his disposal or if he's being throttled.

Tibi, I honestly don't get why you even bother watching this sport if you're convinced the whole thing is rigged.

stormybadger8 said:What really worries me is the possibility that Mercedes might just be letting up—maybe even doing it on purpose.

wiredfalcon2 said:Tibi, I don't get why you even bother watching this sport if you're convinced everything is rigged.

Maybe they just have a thing for masochism.🤔

To be honest, if they want to believe whatever they read, that's their business. It isn't really an issue until they start badgering everyone else to see things through their eyes.
Look, if you look at his equation above, he completely left out Red Bull Racing and failed to explain how Mercedes actually manages their cars and their overall team results.

Why? Because if they kept talking like that, it just wouldn't sound right anymore.
Harmonious equals composer.
To be fair, he's a composer.

Guys, we actually have a composer on this forum.🎉

wiredfalcon2 said:Tib, I don't get why you even bother watching this sport if you think the whole thing is rigged.

Look, I'm not saying everything is rigged...
But I also don't buy that a team would hand over all their secrets to a driver stuck on a one-year deal. It’s not even about some "Number 2" role or petty bullying—it's more about protecting themselves so this guy doesn't leak anything to the competition or the FIA...

And look at Bottas. He's basically living on a "here today, gone tomorrow" contract. They aren't giving him anything long-term, which tells me he probably doesn't even have access to the good stuff.

It's the same deal Ricc likely faced during the second half of the season at Red Bull Racing when everyone knew he was headed to Renault...

stormybadger8 said:... And Bottas just seems stuck in this "one day you're in, the next you're out" cycle. They won't give him a decent long-term deal, which makes me think he isn't even getting full access to everything...

Bottas is locked in for 2020, but it's just a one-year extension.
I don't buy the idea that he lacks access. Why would Mercedes-Benz sabotage their own driver's potential? It doesn't make sense.
Even if he was being left out of the loop before, he’ll definitely have what he needs now. Their title is on the line—or at least that's how Lewis Hamilton makes it sound.
Now the poor guy is just going to get slammed after every single race.
It was easy when a dominant car could mask all the mistakes. Now, they might actually find themselves missing someone like Esteban Ocon.