Olivia Martinez20 said:Like, is that just some excuse for our terrible results? Blame it on the invisible globalization hand?
Nah, I mean, why would our campaign be worse than something in the West if their results are even worse? Why even follow that kind of strategy?
Olivia Martinez20 said:I think I mentioned a few examples (in links) in earlier posts that pretty clearly show what kind of facts we're dealing with.
Eh, giving a link is only half the info. Like, even you didn't really look at my link until we started arguing about it. I guess, if we're trying to have a real discussion, 😁 it wouldn't hurt to include a quick summary somewhere in the thread.
Here's me starting:
- most people don't realize that most drugs aren't addictive (which I don't agree with, like I said before, and I don't see how that helps anyone decide not to use stuff)
- marijuana isn't really the gateway drug anymore. Amphetamines pushed it out of that spot (OK, that's basically the same thing, maybe not super new, but whatever, it's clearer)
- the small-time crime side is mostly heroin and crack addicts, who are the toughest cases but actually a minority
- most addicts (okay, okay, I know you'll say they aren't addicts) today are actually addicted 😍 to amphetamine derivatives. There, useful info. Maybe you're right, a strategy could be built on stuff like that. Assuming the situation there is like ours, since this is from a BBC show you linked.
Olivia Martinez20 said:Oh, sure, and predictably you noticed (thanks to the American media staying quiet) these studies:
Yeah, that thing about lung cancer caught my eye, especially since the authors themselves said the study doesn't really matter, because unlike cigarettes, there aren't many joint chain-smokers.🙂
Olivia Martinez20 said:Today's users are just as successful as anyone else and have nothing to do with crime (besides using), just like everyone else. Sakoman tried shyly to get that message across lately, but he's not great at it, even with the Paol Valic project.
What kind of impact do they even have on the social system, prevention strategy, or campaign design? For that specific group, I'm honestly indifferent. Unless it's used as context for "here's why drugs aren't bad," which is basically just providing incomplete info.
Olivia Martinez20 said:But if we actually want to cut down on drug-related crime, reducing supply matters just as much as youth prevention (which, just so you know, saw a 15% spike in users here this year), plus support (which usually just means turning a blind eye) and treatment (instead of specialized centers, Americans are often treated in general psychiatric wards). In the US, jail still tends to be the go-to response over treatment, even though treatment actually saves money because it’s cheaper in the long run than locking someone up.
We've been talking about prevention forever and still haven't really landed anywhere. 🙂
I guess the thing about specialized centers might work. Probably give psychiatrists some breathing room too. Just don't really get how that ends up being cheaper.
Olivia Martinez20 said:On a theoretical level, even though there's a consensus that a huge number of people arrested for various crimes are frequent illegal drug users, the debate over whether drugs are truly the cause isn't settled. Drugs and crime are linked, I'm not arguing that. But we haven't finished the discussion on what kind of correlation it is: does A cause B, does B cause A, or maybe A and B share the same root cause?
Well, out of those three, it seems least likely that someone takes drugs just so they can commit a crime.
But whatever, that specific level of crime isn't even that interesting, and honestly, we've pretty much covered that already—it's not a big mystery. It obviously comes down to the environment people grow up in.
Olivia Martinez20 said:Drugs and crime go hand in hand. But so does watching TV for me every night to help me fall asleep. That doesn't mean TV is the reason I fell asleep.
Fine then, just toss the TV out the window. 😛
Olivia Martinez20 said:In other words, you're being "stingy" when it comes to drugs—you wouldn't want to spend too much or "waste" money because you don't even see the point of the discussion. (sorry if I'm misreading you, but that's how it feels from your posts)
I believe the opposite. I think the drug issue is extremely important and we should be pouring tons of money into it since it benefits everyone, and in the US, the problem is massive. And I think we need to talk about it way more deeply and openly at every level.
I'm not against discussing it (though this whole "massive funding" thing doesn't quite sit right with me
), but I don't think the tone of everything we've seen so far is wrong. You bring up that 15% again, but you gotta provide some context. Like, compared to Eastern Europe, or Europe in general? Or the Western world? Because for a lot of places, things aren't getting much better.😁