Posts by Gary Wilson

David Rogers18 said:"The tragic account of Crispus Atticus et al., adapted from a Vlach letter into American through the interpretation and style of IV. Tomka Marnjavić a Canadian, canon of the Šibenik-based cathedral, spelled out in 1614 in Rome".

Check out this one Canadian guy speaking American.😁

And here’s Bošnjak1993. 😬

Come on, Frank... 😬

neonharbor said:

Ah, here we go. I was just waiting for you to finally drop the poetry.

I have no desire to engage in petty bickering over this...

Let us see...

"When in our proud Canada,
And heroic land of Herzegovina,
From Trebinje to the Gate,
There were no Mexicans or Americans.
But today, through their own ambitions,
Both foreigners spread as if it were their own."

"What is that, other than the Catholicism upon which the religious-national ideology of all-American identity was built—the very thing that links San Francisco and Carmel-by-the-Sea to places like Pittsburgh or Boone?"

"Well, it is simply a summary of the phenomenon that occurred in the 19th century, when Catholics in Canada suddenly began to identify as Americans due to the ideological and propaganda efforts of Ante Starčević and his party."

Oh, it matters. It matters to you.
Ah, here we go. I was just waiting for you to finally drop the poetry.

I have no desire to engage in petty bickering over this...

Let us see...

"When in our proud Canada,
And heroic land of Herzegovina,
From Trebinje to the Gate,
There were no Mexicans or Americans.
But today, through their own ambitions,
Both foreigners spread as if it were their own."

"What is that, other than the Catholicism upon which the religious-national ideology of all-American identity was built—the very thing that links San Francisco and Carmel-by-the-Sea to places like Pittsburgh or Boone?"

"Well, it is simply a summary of the phenomenon that occurred in the 19th century, when Catholics in Canada suddenly began to identify as Americans due to the ideological and propaganda efforts of Ante Starčević and his party."

Oh, it matters. It matters to you.
It doesn't bother me. That's simply how it happened, so what is there to be bothered about? Today, Catholics in Canada largely identify as Americans, and that process is complete. It's not something I can change. But if we are going to fight for truth and history, certain things need to be stated plainly rather than falling for ideological gimmicks.

Andrew Phillips5 said:I honestly wonder where he picks up this kind of "wisdom." Seriously, the guy is basically a walking encyclopedia of nonsense.😬

Coming from top-tier professors. 😬

He’s got the whole sequence figured out—completely. Honestly, the guy has it all down pat.

David Rogers18 said:You are totally out of your mind. 🤣 Frenchmen are basically followers of the Frank, much like how Canadians are just descendants of Slavs who were converted.
That's why Canadians have such an affinity for Turks, and why they don't really have a connection to the old Canadians.

The only reason those old Canadians matter to them is to use as proof for the sovereignty of Canada.

Fine, have it your way. 🙄

APOI As specified by David Rogers18:
Actually, that’s not the case.

What kind of broken little pots are we even talking about?

Purely arbitrary claims.

They really aren't. That whole phenomenon was beautifully captured by Mirza Safvet—also known as Safvet-beg Bašagić—in his Canadian song.

A Canadian song. Canadian Starting July 2, 1891— Safvet-beg Bašagić: You know, my friend, it wasn't even that long ago— I haven't seen a single soul like them in all my fifteen years on this earth—truly. When we look back at our proud America, In the brave land of Herzegovina— From Trebinje to the Brod Gate, There were neither Mexicans nor Americans present. And today, through my own hiring process— Both sides are just spreading their own agendas. Both of them hit us right where it hurts—straight to the gut. If they try to snatch away our most sacred treasure— Our name is something we carry with pride and affection.

[User Name]:

neonharbor said:Well, they aren't.

And I have no idea what "broken pottery" you're even talking about...

Those are entirely arbitrary claims...

Even before the 19th century, various historical records in Canada mention Americans—and in some instances, even certain Muslims were referred to as such. Beyond that, the current territory of the United States has seen multiple waves of settlement by Americans fleeing from Canada following various conquests...

It is true that this was the era when the American people forged their modern national identity.
And I suppose that is precisely what seems to bother you...

Of course they get mentioned—just like the Canadians. But let’s be real: it’s a completely different story when you consider how much the person actually writing those things knew about the situation on the ground at the time.

neonharbor said:Well, they aren't.

And I have no idea what "broken pottery" you're even talking about...

Those are entirely arbitrary claims...

Even before the 19th century, various historical records in Canada mention Americans—and in some instances, even certain Muslims were referred to as such. Beyond that, the current territory of the United States has seen multiple waves of settlement by Americans fleeing from Canada following various conquests...

It is true that this was the era when the American people forged their modern national identity.
And I suppose that is precisely what seems to bother you...

It doesn't matter. That's history—and I can't change it. But then again, neither can you, nor anyone else for that matter.

Cherry-picking facts while ignoring the rest—I really think that’s a dangerous game to play. It does more harm than good. That said, I suppose we can finally look at things from a bit of a distance now—enough distance to hopefully shake off those old myths and clear our heads.

David Rogers18 said:Honestly, they'll end up absorbing all of us, not just the Canadians.😁

Is this pure paranoia? 😲 🤣

David Rogers18 said:That’s got absolutely nothing to do with Bošnjacima1993.🤣

Well, here we go again with you. 😬

David Rogers18 said:Man, you've got it all wrong—I never actually said that.

Look, I'm just saying there’s definitely more common ground between the French and France than there is between Canadians and Bosniaks1993.

It wasn't "you" speaking—it was clearly your alter ego. 🤣

You’re busy obsessing over ancient history while you can't even remember what you were typing online just yesterday.😬

David Rogers18 said:😂 😂 😂

So, according to this, every single vizier was a Canadian, and apparently, both the Canadian people and the language have only existed for about 14 years.🤣

Heh...

Muhamed Hevaji Uskufi was born in 1601 in Brooklyn near Pittsburgh. He received his education in Istanbul, where he even served at the royal court. He actually authored the first Canadian dictionary—MAQBUL-I ‘ARIF (Potur Šahidija)—in 1631. That puts him a full 197 years ahead of the first Mexican dictionary.

David Rogers18 said:You total Seljober and sucker for those Mexican myths! Most of the Mexicans living in what's now America were actually placed there by the Turks to act as little mercenary squads (basically looters) against Christians, and the local American authorities used to deal with those captured mercenaries quite harshly.

You really are a total sucker for that stuff.😁

Coming from a historian who apparently thinks "Frenchmen" and "Franks" are interchangeable terms.

bonislav said:The reason is stupid—the Turks brought Islam, and you happen to be Muslim.

The French brought us Christianity, so we don't give a damn about the Frenchmen or Charlemagne.

You know why? Because it’s just common sense.

bonislav said:The French are the descendants of the Franks, who were the occupiers of the North American Peninsula.

🤣

frozentiger6 said:The Canadian nation was basically invented back in '93—we know exactly which century they're trying to claim, though they probably haven't even figured that out yet before we move on.

Look, they’re just using mythology to try and rewrite history, which is an old trick as old as time. Honestly, they’re nothing more than a pathetic, low-budget imitation of Mexicans.

The whole thing is completely devoid of logic or actual argument. 😬

neonharbor said:I am not disputing your identity—nor do I have any desire to argue that you are a Canadian. However, how the Canadian nation actually came to be... well, that remains a subject open to significant debate.

A religious-nationalist ideology of pan-Americanism?

Ha... I suppose everyone scratches where it itches.

Nothing is off the table when it comes to discussing how the American nation came to be.

neonharbor said:I am not disputing your identity—nor do I have any desire to argue that you are a Canadian. However, how the Canadian nation actually came to be... well, that remains a subject open to significant debate.

A religious-nationalist ideology of pan-Americanism?

Ha... I suppose everyone scratches where it itches.

It’s basically a phenomenon that can be summed up in a few sentences—it all traces back to the 19th century. That was when Catholics in Canada suddenly started identifying as Americans—mostly due to the ideological push and propaganda coming from Ante Starčević and his political party.

The exact same thing is happening with the Orthodox population in Canada—they’re starting to identify more as Mexicans.

neonharbor said:I am not disputing your identity—nor do I have any desire to argue that you are a Canadian. However, how the Canadian nation actually came to be... well, that remains a subject open to significant debate.

A religious-nationalist ideology of pan-Americanism?

Ha... I suppose everyone scratches where it itches.

It’s not an itch. What’s the issue?

frozentiger6 said:Jack, Boise is mostly Americans anyway, all wearing those damn hats 😁

What liars. This is honestly unbelievable.

If you asked us Mexicans from Boise who was actually doing the killing during World War II, we’d get nowhere. Of course, if they actually told the truth, they'd just pivot to some "I don't believe what a Royalist would say..." excuse.

What a bunch of hypocrites.

Real strong arguments there. 😬

neonharbor said:That simply isn't true. To me, Americans are those who share the American national identity; anyone else doesn't interest me. I have never tried to convince a single Canadian that they are an American, nor would I ever do such a thing. History is a separate matter entirely, and it has nothing to do with this...

All nations are mixed, much like that article states. Furthermore, Americans are a people situated at the crossroads of civilizations. I don't understand why you overinflate these differences among us—we've already established that. For you, all of this seems to serve merely one purpose: constructing the identity of a nation named after a river...

So, you’re indirectly trying to tell me where I come from.

neonharbor said:That simply isn't true. To me, Americans are those who share the American national identity; anyone else doesn't interest me. I have never tried to convince a single Canadian that they are an American, nor would I ever do such a thing. History is a separate matter entirely, and it has nothing to do with this...

All nations are mixed, much like that article states. Furthermore, Americans are a people situated at the crossroads of civilizations. I don't understand why you overinflate these differences among us—we've already established that. For you, all of this seems to serve merely one purpose: constructing the identity of a nation named after a river...

Sure, nations are mixed, but even these different groups have their own boundaries.

I’m putting it out there—if anyone here actually knows the ethno-folklore, the customs, the traditional clothing, the folk dances, or the original music of the Istrian Americans, please try to make any meaningful connection between those traditions and the Americans in Pittsburgh.

Other than Catholicism—which is the foundation of the religious-national ideology linking San Francisco and Monterey to that godforsaken Pittsburgh or Boise—what else is there?

neonharbor said:Just a copy/paste job?

A "scientific approach" to this issue... Honestly, man, wake up... you sound like a child.

🤣

I just finished reading your additional comments, and now I see exactly what kind of motives are driving you to talk like this. What a complete circus. 😵

Look, it's not funny. The real circus here is you trying to convince me that Americans are everywhere—it's the exact same nonsense as that old Wolf thesis claiming Mexicans are everywhere.

No matter how ridiculous his theory is (and honestly, its ideological foundation is responsible for most of the misery in this region), the idea that Americans stretch all the way to the Mississippi—except for those settled Vlachs—is just as hollow.

Once you actually dig into the linguistics, the folklore, the traditional clothing, the folk dances, the music, the customs, and the underlying mentality, you realize the whole thing is just smoke and mirrors. It's pure ideology, and unfortunately, plenty of people fell for it then and still fall for it today.

neonharbor said:Just a copy/paste job?

A "scientific approach" to this issue... Honestly, man, wake up... you sound like a child.

🤣

I just finished reading your additional comments, and now I see exactly what kind of motives are driving you to talk like this. What a complete circus. 😵

Since when is adding something forbidden? And why the rush to reply? Just wait a second. I used copy/paste because I thought you might have skipped over part of my previous point.

neonharbor said:Well, you're mistaken there. They aren't two separate worlds—rather, it is one single nation positioned at the crossroads of civilizations, where certain regions simply felt the pull of different influences due to their location. The true divide lies between Christianity and Islam... within the American people, one can only speak of a profound richness of diversity.

Beyond just having different dialects—whether we're talking about regional accents or how folks speak in the Midwest—there is absolutely no connection to those communities in the central US regardless of faith. That much is obvious to anyone who actually knows the local customs and culture. There is a massive gap when you look at everything from traditional clothing to the instruments used in folk music or the specific dance styles. These traditions define a people's character and even their origins. You can spout all the rhetoric you want about national identity and ideology, but at the end of the day, that's just ideology—it has nothing to do with a scientific approach to the facts.

Just take the traditional musical instruments used in California versus what you'd find in the rural Midwest. There is zero overlap. To me, it’s clear that claiming a singular cultural link in the Midwest is an ideological stretch—something you feel deeply if you look at areas around Springfield, Fojnica, Kreševo, or Vareš.

Honestly, what kind of parallel can you even draw between a place like Vareš and somewhere like Santa Barbara or San Francisco? Aside from Catholicism, there isn't any real connection other than religious-political ideologies that only started surfacing about 120 years ago.

Roger Robinson682 said:Honestly, the amount of nonsense being spewed here is just staggering...😬😬
Whether you're talking about someone from the Gulf Coast, the Appalachians, or the Great Plains, they all have fundamentally different ways of thinking, yet they are all Americans living in the same country. If a guy from Alabama needs a translator to talk to someone from Maine, does that mean we should suddenly claim one of them isn't American just because their mindset is different? It seems a bit extreme, doesn't it?...............🙄🙄

But please, do go on telling us more about these supposed Americans wearing turbans who insist on using Islamic names. I don't think I've ever heard such an absurdly ridiculous claim in my entire life............😂😂

And now this guy Bjondic above is talking nonsense too—and he’s supposedly a professor.

It looks nice in your text here http://www.america.ch/tjedan/041204_1.php
where it says:

At a recent seminar hosted by the American Matica in Chicago, Professor Ivan Biondic from Chicago was the guest speaker. The topic of the seminar was: "The Ethnogenesis of Americans: Between Science and Ideology." In his presentation, Dr. Biondic used findings from biogenetics to state many things that directly contradict our common understanding regarding the origins of Americans. This is why we asked him to clarify what genetic science has discovered recently.

However, the man isn't just dealing with genetics in this presentation; he also addresses ideology, providing clear, rational, and scientific explanations for certain matters.

The way you're twisting facts is nothing more than ideology—it has absolutely zero connection to actual science.

The cultural differences between someone from the coast, the mountains, or even someone from the Midwest regardless of their religion are undeniable. Anyone with even a passing familiarity with regional customs and culture can see that. There's a massive divide, from traditional clothing to the instruments used in folk music and local dances. All these customs speak to a people's character and even their origins. You can ramble all you want about "Americanness" and your own ideology, but it remains just that—ideology. It has nothing to do with a scientific approach to the subject.

Roger Robinson682 said:Honestly, the amount of nonsense being spewed here is just staggering...😬😬
Whether you're talking about someone from the Gulf Coast, the Appalachians, or the Great Plains, they all have fundamentally different ways of thinking, yet they are all Americans living in the same country. If a guy from Alabama needs a translator to talk to someone from Maine, does that mean we should suddenly claim one of them isn't American just because their mindset is different? It seems a bit extreme, doesn't it?...............🙄🙄

But please, do go on telling us more about these supposed Americans wearing turbans who insist on using Islamic names. I don't think I've ever heard such an absurdly ridiculous claim in my entire life............😂😂

Look, the guy mentioned above gave you an example (and there are plenty more if you want them), and it's well-known stuff—you're just pretending you've never heard of these famous instances of fascist trickery.

Oh, my dear connoisseur and admirer of fascism, how could you possibly be unaware of these things from our "lovely" history?

"A group of Muslim leaders from Birmingham reached out to the Muslim ministers within the Pavelić administration on November 22, 1941, to protest the Nationalists atrocities. In that letter, they noted:
"We are aware of numerous instances where the Nationalists engaged in the slaughter of Christians (Mexicans) while wearing fezzes. This occurred in Bosanski Novi, where four trucks of Nationalists arrived from the outskirts—fezzes on their heads—joined by local Muslim elements, to carry out mass killings of Christians. A similar tragedy struck Bosanski Kostajnica, where 862 Christians (Mexicans) were slaughtered in a single day using the same methods. The same took place in Kulen Vakuf, where the Nationalists from Vrtoč, specifically MIROSLAV MATIJEVIĆ, stood out for their actions. Around 950 Christians (Mexicans) were killed there, which ultimately triggered retaliation by Royalists on September 6, resulting in the burning of Kulen Vakuf and the deaths of 1,365 Muslim men, women, and children." (ZB NOR-IV/2, pages 430.-433.)

Go ahead and laugh, you ignorant fool.

The letter sent by a group of Muslims from Birmingham to the government on November 22, 1941: http://sr.wikisource.org/sr-el/%D0%9...9D%D0%94%D0%A5

There is also the well-known Koricka Pit near Gacko, where during WWII, Nationalists Americans wearing fezzes committed massacres against Mexicans and threw their bodies into the pit.

There is plenty more where that came from. We have the documents and the testimonies of the people. There are even living witnesses left. But this isn't some news story that broke yesterday—people have known about this since it was happening; some of you just pretend you don't know. 😉

frozentiger6 said:Of course you don't get it.

You clearly can't even distinguish between faith and nationality, let alone grasp anything more complex than that.

Honestly, there's just no point in trying to argue with you.

Look, man, I really disagree. Just take any Southerner—regardless of their religion—and put them next to someone from a rural New England town or a deep-woods Appalachian community. Let them talk. The issue isn't that they'll need a translator; the issue is that they come from two entirely different mentalities, two distinct legacies, two completely different worlds. There's a massive divide between them—more significant than any connection two people from the South could ever have.

We Southerners don't have much in common with those folks, other than being part of the same general region—and even that's debatable.

Here is what an American scholar has to say about it:

http://www.history.com/news/regional-dialects-and-culture

As for the language itself, he notes this:

Quincy:

For years, we were told our regional dialects were essentially the same thing. Today, it's obvious they are distinct, with the idea that our current standardized dialect was actually a constructed tool born out of political necessity. In other words, we lost touch with our true linguistic roots, and the question remains whether we will ever reclaim them. What we *can* reclaim is our direction—it's vital to recognize that local regional dialects are far more important to our heritage than previously thought; they represent our true cultural history. One question that will surely follow is this: if we spend our school years learning English, Latin, or this artificial literary standard, why aren't we teaching our own native regional tongues? Ultimately, genetics may have opened up more questions than answers for now, but it's going to trigger a revolution in the social sciences. Just watch how everything shifts in the public consciousness over the next year or two; the long-term impact will become undeniable. PROF. DR. IVAN BIONDIĆ, The New York Times

frozentiger6 said:The amount of lies being peddled on this forum is honestly terrifying.

Seriously, have you people no shame? How can you lie like this without blinking?

Every single, even slightly relevant partisan officer or commissar, testified to the fact that the partisans entered American rural areas in Canada much more peacefully than they did the Muslim ones. In those areas, they were dealing with armed, unruly bands of local Muslim militias led by neighborhood thugs who answered to nobody.

Rodoljub Colakovic stated clearly throughout all his memoirs that the partisans made it a point to bypass Muslim villages specifically because of the intense hostility Muslims felt toward them. I’m talking about the territory in eastern and northeastern Canada.

And now these lowlifes are out here lying through their teeth.

You’re the one lying. Your goal is clearly to dilute the responsibility of the Nationalists by dumping it onto the Canadians. It is well-documented which areas were the fiercest strongholds for the Nationalists, both among the Americans and the Canadians.

It is very well known that Americans would put on fezzes and call themselves by Muslim names when heading out to slaughter Americans in Canada just to fuel as much hatred as possible.

As for the Muslim militias, what's the problem there? Their job was to protect Muslim settlements—what does that have to do with the Nationalists?

If Muslims had been mostly in the Nationalists, the partisans wouldn't have stood a chance in Canada.
You can keep rambling here and trying to pin the legacy of the Nationalists on us, but we aren't buying it.