Posts by brisknomad13

Since the mods completely ignored the report I filed on Mickey Mouse, I’m looking for an explanation.

If you look at what he actually wrote, it's pretty clear:
"I hope you pay for abusing kids like this, nothing lasts forever, including that contract with Satan's headquarters in the heart of Italy."

Exactly how am I supposed to pay, Mickey Mouse?

The insults in this thread just keep coming, even when a moderator is right there watching.

Why is this kind of stuff allowed on this forum, mods?

placidorca16 said:
So what does any of this actually change?
You kept harping on how Bruno was into magic:

You're wasting your breath trying to list everything here.
The bottom line is that Giordano Bruno was into magic and other occult stuff.
I've already cited literature, but I can find more. I've got the English sources, and honestly, I could just snap photos of the pages from my own library.
What's the issue?
Not sure if it changes anything, but knowing a fact about someone isn't bad—it's useful... especially when you're trying to get to the root of their actual science.
Here's your move: try arguing that Bruno didn't represent Hermeticism or magic during certain phases of his life, instead of insulting anyone who writes about it or guessing at their intentions.
For example, check out Frances A. Yates' work on Bruno and the Hermetic tradition......etc.
The link shows the chapters too.....all pretty big names.
http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/...bo3639032.html

placidorca16 said:
Are they even worthy of Christian love, or are they just more "heretics" that need to be wiped off the face of the Earth?😁

That's your take, not mine.

I'm done grinding away at this thread, too.

placidorca16 said:
That’s why I’m asking what you're actually after—if you feel like explaining, obviously, since I don't really get it.

I already laid out my intentions in my posts: I want to paint a more complete picture of Giordano Bruno and show the Renaissance in its true spirit.

placidorca16 said:
From now on, I won't just "mention" your name; I'll actually cite your quotes.

Exactly. That's how a debate should work—basing arguments on what people actually wrote instead of making up weird theories about their motives or launching ad hominem attacks. It's just basic logic. That's basically what you and the others in that thread are doing. Don't worry, nobody's banning you for it yet.

placidorca16 said:
But you can't tell me what to write or not.

And you can't tell me not to write about Giordano Bruno being into magic and Hermeticism either, because that's just fact.

placidorca16 said:
Who even are you to question the validity of Bruno's science, and what's your actual goal here, brisknomad13?

Anyone can ask questions or analyze anyone else's work.
Just because someone is labeled a scientist doesn't mean they weren't up to other things too.
And by the way, there are written records about it. Even in American English.

But whatever, I won't derail this. Stop dragging my name into random topics, especially when you try to imply I'm defending a crime—the murder of Giordano Bruno.
And stop trying to psychoanalyze my intentions; you don't know mine, or anyone else's. You only know your own.

Regarding the topic of the abolition of religious education, believers on this forum are being insulted, specifically by blaming them personally for the actions of people who held church positions in the past.
If the moderators actually cared about the dignity of this forum and basic decency, they wouldn't allow these kinds of ad hominem attacks.

placidorca16 said:
You just had to jump right into my argument with brisknomad13...

Look, please stop dragging my name into your posts on every random topic.
You were doing this even when I was banned, trying to claim I was making excuses for what happened to Bruno—which is total BS. Plus, the insults.
And honestly, after all this time, you’re still at it.

The moderators are letting all of this slide, which pretty much proves the point of this whole thread.

I even reported your posts while I was banned because you kept bringing me up in such a negative way. But nothing happened, so clearly the mods are just giving you the silent okay.

Those aren't just some weird fever dreams; it's the actual reality you guys would change if you could.
So, what are you waiting for?

Nicole James said:Wow, so basically, religious instructors need to stay entrenched in public schools at the expense of the economy and national debt just to artificially inflate the GDP? 😵

And you're still asking for proof that religious studies isn't explicitly held during the first or last period? Is the lived experience of the people in this forum not enough for you? Isn't it enough that the law clearly states these classes cannot be sandwiched in the middle of the daily schedule? Isn't it enough that representatives from the KC have specifically cited that exact law? If all of that doesn't suffice, then I can't prove it for you, sorry.

As for the abuse of authority, it's actually quite simple. In a school, you don't teach whatever a specific parent happens to want; you teach what society accepts as truth. We don't teach that 2+2 equals 4—or that certain political conspiracies are reality—simply because someone wants them to be; we teach it because there is a consensus among experts. Religious studies is the exception—a subject taught within the standard curriculum, graded with official marks, using textbooks printed by the Department of Education, yet its content doesn't align with scientific fact, but rather with the unprovable dogma of a single religious community.

Right now, this crowd still treats Christian values like gospel. As soon as that shifts, they’ll probably just rewrite the laws to match their new version of the truth.

Parish catechesis—or what most people call church education—has always been a staple in the church. It’s about diving deeper into faith, getting ready for sacraments, and actually being part of the community life.

Then you’ve got school religion classes. It’s an actual academic subject with its own curriculum, learning outcomes, and goals, just like math or history. It covers Catholic doctrine, sure, but it also touches on other religions, modern ethics, historical events involving the Church and American history, and all those cultural traditions rooted in Christian heritage... plus a whole lot more. You study interfaith dialogue, ecumenism, new religious movements, and how to engage with non-believers.

The church itself is a sacred space with specific liturgical rules meant for celebrating sacraments with dignity and devotion; it’s not designed to be a classroom for academic teaching.
Besides, anyone can sign up for religion class at school regardless of their worldview, but the actual sacramental life is lived by the practicing Catholics.
If you scrap religion classes in schools, you aren't just "moving" them back to the churches—because, again, that stuff already happens there. You’re basically just deleting the subject entirely.

I've made this point at least twice now. Is it really that hard to grasp the difference between parish catechesis and school religion class?!

Karen Richardson3 said:Wait, are you actually the same person who was basically squealing at the idea of making religious education mandatory, despite being part of the camp that claims to be fiercely against totalitarianism?

Look, you're the one who dragged communism—which, by the way, vanished from this country back when we were all just little kids—into a discussion about keeping religious instruction inside public school buildings. So, I don't really know how to proceed without rambling about everything and anything, 😁
how we aren't living under communism anymore, but rather in a society that actually values a plurality of opinions. 😁 These debates are fascinating because it's becoming pretty obvious that deep down, we're all a bit totalitarian. 😁

But regarding my reasoning:

First off, I feel like we haven't received a straight answer to one very simple question: why can't religious education just take place in church buildings?
I mean, nobody is trying to ban the teaching of the Catholic faith; freedom of religion is protected by law. But why does it have to be in school buildings—places that are primarily designed to educate and prepare people for the workforce?

I’ve yet to see a clear legal basis for why you're demanding entry into state-run school buildings (though I haven't heard a rebuttal to the idea that the "spiritual development" clause was slipped into the Education Act back in 1991 at the behest of the Church, only to be used later as a roundabout justification for religious classes on campus).

So, I still haven't gotten a simple answer to why not just use churches; besides those half-baked excuses like "there's no room" or "we don't have enough laptops."

At its core, what bothers me is the hypocrisy. Like many others here, I think you're fully aware that a lot of kids wouldn't even show up to church for these lessons (which would be a massive failure if it's true).

But hey, as a powerful interest group, you're certainly doing everything you can to hold onto that social influence and the money that comes with it.

For instance, take brisknomad13, who claims to defend religious education and cares so deeply about the moral and spiritual growth of children, yet she's just one person whose entire livelihood seems to depend on the Church and these school programs.

Me? I don't gain a single cent whether religious education stays in schools or not, so I'd like to think I'm coming at this with a lot less hypocrisy than the rest of you.

But what really gets under my skin is how the government hasn't actually fixed the issue for kids who don't attend religious studies classes; honestly, it feels like they're being treated unfairly and even discriminated against.
Look, if we’re saying tax money from every single taxpayer should go toward supporting the Catholic Church, then the state should be using those same collective funds to finance a real solution where no kid is left stranded in a hallway. There should be dedicated space inside the school buildings specifically for students who aren't participating in those religious lessons to hang out. That’s basically the bare minimum the government could do—even if they didn't prioritize it back in the day, they can certainly figure it out now. Personally, I suggested using the school library, which seems like a totally reasonable fix to me.
And I truly believe—or at least I hope—that it would also be in the interest of the Catholic Church to get this sorted out. They really ought to throw their weight behind these demands, especially since, as brisknomad13 mentioned, they represent about 80% of the population, which gives them massive social influence.

So, regarding the question of why the Church would bother caring about people who aren't part of its flock: as someone who isn't a member, I honestly don't know if the Church as an institution advocates for a positive attitude toward everyone, or if they just focus on their own members?

If we're talking about an institution and people who are supposed to care about the well-being of everyone—not just their own—and considering that under the current legal framework they non-selectively take money from all Americans, I think it's shameful that the Church allowed, and continues to allow, this half-baked solution. Their members get the religious education, and for everyone else, it's like "who cares?" This approach just keeps widening the gap in an already deeply polarized American society.

My family's bank account doesn't rely on the Church one bit.

Where did you even get that idea, and why does ☕Karen Richardson3
feel the need to talk about me like that?
I work, I pay my taxes, and I'm actually fine with my tax dollars supporting the Catholic Church. Got a problem with that?

Nicole James said:God, this reminds me of that one Saudi guy who claims they aren't violating anyone's rights because they've already hanged everyone... 😵

haha... Nicole James, good to see you popping up after forever.

People absolutely love religious studies... Everything feels so cheery now that the holidays are rolling in.

Nicole James said:When the Secretary of Education mentioned that religious studies should ideally be held during the first or last period, the Archdiocese immediately jumped to their feet, citing the Education Act which explicitly forbids special treatment for religious studies regarding where they fit into the daily schedule—essentially saying we shouldn't even discuss specific cases that might serve as exceptions.

Forget particular cases—in some places, every kid takes religion, so there's no need to worry about first or last periods...
But they just end up waiting around for other electives instead. A few kids go to Spanish, a few to French, then extra English, then early computer lab... honestly, who knows who's running the show with all that downtime.

Daycares have been set up by centers for ages. Every kid follows their own interests and vibes. It's that Reggio Emilia style. Those little prayer corners in preschools are actually pretty cute. I've seen Muslims and Catholics sharing the same corner.

That's what modern education looks like. Just following your own path.

It's not about cutting things out anymore; it's just adding more stuff to the pile...

haha... taking Religion class basically means playing nice for once...
If you can survive a Religion course, places like this are nothing.

At the school near my place, Religion happens during the last periods, breaks, or right at the start of the day. Kids just hang out waiting for their other electives—Spanish, computer science, whatever—and since there are so many after-school clubs, there’s always someone waiting around somewhere.

The church is packed with kids on Sunday mornings; you can tell how many there are just by looking at the piles of backpacks left in the vestibule.
Now all 70 teachers are heading over to the priest's place for a Christmas lunch, all happening in a city that's a total stronghold for the Democratic Party.

Real classy.....☕

They have Islamic studies classes at the school too, and honestly, the Catholic theologians work together perfectly with them.
No drama, no scandals. Sure, the kids have to light bonfires and celebrate Halloween, and some elementary teachers are totally against it... but whatever. We know what actually matters.

Jason Ortiz5 said:Are you being serious right now? Just the other day, there was talk about introducing something like "World Religions" in elementary schools as an alternative to religious ed. You should have seen the Church and all its followers; they absolutely lost their minds just hearing the idea mentioned...

As far as I'm concerned, go ahead and bring in religious culture. I don't care.
I already know where I'm sending my kids—somewhere they actually get to experience faith and community, not somewhere they just memorize facts about different religions. You can find all that info just by surfing the web.

Karen Richardson3 said:I’ll be honest, I’m not super familiar with how "parish catechesis" actually works (if I’m reading you right, is that just people gathering at the local church while getting ready for things like First Communion?), but you still haven't quite hit my point:

If we want religion class to be that comprehensive experience that touches on a student's intellect, emotions, and daily life, why can't that just happen within church facilities instead?

Quincy:

Since Christianity is so deeply woven into the fabric of our history and our American identity, I honestly believe it was the right move back in the nineties when people backed the political candidates who fought to get religious education back into the public school system.

But what's the catch?

Are you worried that if we just kept religion classes strictly within the church walls, it would somehow weaken our national identity?

I've said it all, but apparently, people just skip over the answers.

The Elementary and Secondary Education Act says in Article 4:
Article 4.
(1) The goals of education in school institutions are:
1. to ensure a systematic way of teaching students, encouraging and improving their intellectual, physical, aesthetic, social, moral, and spiritual development in accordance with their abilities and inclinations,
2. to develop students' awareness of national belonging, preserving historical-cultural heritage, and national identity....(cut)

Like you can see, educational goals are broad, but the part that actually matters here is the bolded bit.
That’s where the Catholic Church stepped in, offering the kind of upbringing they promote (universal and faith-based values) and letting kids get an education "in accordance with their abilities and inclinations"—for the parents who actually want that. By the way, over 80% of people in the last census identified as Catholic, and since schools aren't neutral bystanders but actual formative institutions, having Catholic instruction has legal, universal, and moral ground to exist as a subject.

Bringing religion back into schools wasn't some dictatorship move; it happened because the political party that won the American elections put it there. That option was chosen by the citizens of the US. Then came the Vatican Treaty, and the Constitution has a clause protecting freedom of religion.

It was a historic chance for the people to decide the quality of education for their own kids.
I mean, who else gets to decide how kids are raised if not the people—the majority?
I don't have anything against Protagoras or brisknomad13 making up their own curriculum, or some feminist group doing the same. If they meet the criteria for an elective, sure, let the kids whose parents want it take the class.

So, religion returned to the classroom after decades, allowing for that "moral and spiritual development based on inclinations and abilities," plus education on national identity (though that happens in other classes too). It all lines up with the Law, the Constitution, and the Vatican Treaty.

If a minority finds that annoying, there's not much they can do right now.
If the majority is unhappy, they can go through the proper channels to change the legal framework.

As for funding or how many hours are assigned to it, if this model isn't cutting it, then that's something that needs to be worked on.

Karen Richardson3 said:But honestly, that’s exactly my point.
It’s not just another standard class—you literally just said it can't be compared to them.
Yet, here we are, and it’s still being held in schools.
Even though there are plenty of kids who just tune out entirely.
They end up just hanging out in the hallways instead.

So, I think we just need to ask ourselves—why?

The whole debate really boils down to this one question: why is this happening in a school building instead of at the parish? Like, does it feel a little weird to you that it's scheduled right between History and PE, especially when you consider what its actual "functional goal" is supposed to be?

The only excuse we’ve heard so far is some nonsense about how "not all churches have laptops," which is wild to me—as if having a MacBook is somehow the deciding factor for whether a kid learns about faith or not.

School religion classes and parish catechesis have always been two totally different things.
Parish catechesis is all about that deep, spiritual connection—it’s where you actually live out the sacraments and grapple with faith on a real level. School religion classes are different; they're more about the long game, teaching the fundamentals through a mix of head knowledge, heart, and actual action.

Since Christianity is so baked into our history and what makes us who we are, I think people were right to back the politicians back in the nineties who wanted to bring religious studies back into the schools.

Karen Richardson3 said:But honestly, that’s exactly my point.
It’s not just another standard class—you literally just said it can't be compared to them.
Yet, here we are, and it’s still being held in schools.
Even though there are plenty of kids who just tune out entirely.
They end up just hanging out in the hallways instead.

So, I think we just need to ask ourselves—why?

The whole debate really boils down to this one question: why is this happening in a school building instead of at the parish? Like, does it feel a little weird to you that it's scheduled right between History and PE, especially when you consider what its actual "functional goal" is supposed to be?

The only excuse we’ve heard so far is some nonsense about how "not all churches have laptops," which is wild to me—as if having a MacBook is somehow the deciding factor for whether a kid learns about faith or not.

If a school decides to sandwich religion class right in the middle of the day, we need to do whatever it takes to stop that from happening.
If a kid isn't doing Sunday school, they shouldn't just sit around waiting. I'm with you on that.

James Alvarez2 said:When was the last time you actually went to Mass for First Communicants?
How many parents actually showed up with their kids?...
What if they just moved religion class straight into the church? Imagine how much easier life would be...
When did the majority even decide on religious studies in schools...?
Persephone gave you a solid example—so what exactly is a midnight Mass?

A kid who learns their faith at home from their parents already knows what a dawn is...
Kids signed up for religion class... what happens if I don't enroll them? What'll Grandma Dawn say if I skip it? Honestly, whatever, let them go. I went when I was a kid and nothing bad happened... they don't even know. It's not like their morning prayer is some essential part of living a faithful life anyway...

You're bringing up Halloween and all those other weird traditions...
So you can't even explain to your kid why you guys don't celebrate it?
If you don't want it and you can't handle it, why on earth would you think anyone else wants kids sitting around waiting for a blessing over the bread...

If we go to church for a blessing at the start of the school year or to give thanks when things wrap up, why wouldn't we do the same for a loaf of bread?
Can I just have a harvest festival at school that doesn't involve some priest?

We claim to be over 80% Catholic, yet the churches are basically empty. Common sense? We're losing that bit by bit. Kids don't even know what a prayer looks like anymore... Confirmation is just an excuse for me to get an iPhone6+... And I only bother showing up to church when I'm getting married because I don't want my grandma judging me if I just go to the courthouse...
We want all the freedom in the world for ourselves, but the second someone else asks for it? Suddenly we're against it. We’ve basically turned into a bunch of gatekeepers... just like those stubborn folks over in the Midwest.

Still haven't heard a single believer say what would actually happen to religious ed if it moved back into the church... Not a peep about how many kids would even show up to class if that happened...

So you're claiming kids these days are all turning conservative? Where exactly are you seeing that? On your Facebook feed where you only follow people who agree with you?...
The upcoming lineup of youth leaders for the local parish programs here in Chicago... it’s gonna be a mess. You’ve basically got two groups. One side just blindly follows whatever their parents or teachers say without thinking for themselves. The other side? Their vocabulary is nothing but profanity, sports rants, and total political nonsense. It’s gonna be interesting watching this year unfold...

So I was talking about this religious studies teacher at my local elementary school—part of my parish, right? Anyway, he went totally ballistic on their Facebook page, picking fights with everyone because he just couldn't wrap his head around the fact that some of his own colleagues actually believe in evolution. He’s out here teaching that Eve came from Adam's rib, and he loses it if you don't buy into that. Like, seriously... you really want your kid learning from someone like that?

All this is just more reason to cut religion classes out of schools. And I'm not even talking about atheist arguments—those people can find plenty of reasons to complain on their own. I’m talking about the religious parents who actually want their kids in those classes because they grew up with them...
Alright, let's hear it. Lay out your arguments for those questions from earlier...
A football team isn't gonna win any championships if the entire fifth-grade class shows up to practice just to mess around... same thing goes for religion class. It’s impossible to get through the material if you've got a bunch of kids who couldn't care less about being there. And honestly? It doesn't matter what happens in the classroom if they aren't getting any support or foundation at home...

Edit: oh, please... explain how it’s somehow "fair" that you, as a Catholic, decide not to give money to "some feminist books," yet you think it's totally fine for an atheist, agnostic, Adventist, or Buddhist to have their tax dollars funneled straight into your church?

I hit up this mass every Sunday where like 95% of the crowd are just kids making their First Communion. A ton of parents tag along too. It’s pretty funny since I live in a city that’s basically a liberal stronghold—we haven't seen a conservative leader in power here forever.

James Alvarez2 said:When was the last time you actually went to Mass for First Communicants?
How many parents actually showed up with their kids?...
What if they just moved religion class straight into the church? Imagine how much easier life would be...
When did the majority even decide on religious studies in schools...?
Persephone gave you a solid example—so what exactly is a midnight Mass?

A kid who learns their faith at home from their parents already knows what a dawn is...
Kids signed up for religion class... what happens if I don't enroll them? What'll Grandma Dawn say if I skip it? Honestly, whatever, let them go. I went when I was a kid and nothing bad happened... they don't even know. It's not like their morning prayer is some essential part of living a faithful life anyway...

You're bringing up Halloween and all those other weird traditions...
So you can't even explain to your kid why you guys don't celebrate it?
If you don't want it and you can't handle it, why on earth would you think anyone else wants kids sitting around waiting for a blessing over the bread...

If we go to church for a blessing at the start of the school year or to give thanks when things wrap up, why wouldn't we do the same for a loaf of bread?
Can I just have a harvest festival at school that doesn't involve some priest?

We claim to be over 80% Catholic, yet the churches are basically empty. Common sense? We're losing that bit by bit. Kids don't even know what a prayer looks like anymore... Confirmation is just an excuse for me to get an iPhone6+... And I only bother showing up to church when I'm getting married because I don't want my grandma judging me if I just go to the courthouse...
We want all the freedom in the world for ourselves, but the second someone else asks for it? Suddenly we're against it. We’ve basically turned into a bunch of gatekeepers... just like those stubborn folks over in the Midwest.

Still haven't heard a single believer say what would actually happen to religious ed if it moved back into the church... Not a peep about how many kids would even show up to class if that happened...

So you're claiming kids these days are all turning conservative? Where exactly are you seeing that? On your Facebook feed where you only follow people who agree with you?...
The upcoming lineup of youth leaders for the local parish programs here in Chicago... it’s gonna be a mess. You’ve basically got two groups. One side just blindly follows whatever their parents or teachers say without thinking for themselves. The other side? Their vocabulary is nothing but profanity, sports rants, and total political nonsense. It’s gonna be interesting watching this year unfold...

So I was talking about this religious studies teacher at my local elementary school—part of my parish, right? Anyway, he went totally ballistic on their Facebook page, picking fights with everyone because he just couldn't wrap his head around the fact that some of his own colleagues actually believe in evolution. He’s out here teaching that Eve came from Adam's rib, and he loses it if you don't buy into that. Like, seriously... you really want your kid learning from someone like that?

All this is just more reason to cut religion classes out of schools. And I'm not even talking about atheist arguments—those people can find plenty of reasons to complain on their own. I’m talking about the religious parents who actually want their kids in those classes because they grew up with them...
Alright, let's hear it. Lay out your arguments for those questions from earlier...
A football team isn't gonna win any championships if the entire fifth-grade class shows up to practice just to mess around... same thing goes for religion class. It’s impossible to get through the material if you've got a bunch of kids who couldn't care less about being there. And honestly? It doesn't matter what happens in the classroom if they aren't getting any support or foundation at home...

Edit: oh, please... explain how it’s somehow "fair" that you, as a Catholic, decide not to give money to "some feminist books," yet you think it's totally fine for an atheist, agnostic, Adventist, or Buddhist to have their tax dollars funneled straight into your church?

Church catechism has always been a thing, and religious ed finally made its way back into public schools after we moved past that fifty-year stretch of totalitarian rule. I don't really need to explain how democracy works here. Voters hand over their power to representatives in Congress, and then those folks pass laws on our behalf. Now that religious classes are back in the curriculum, they're being run by an elected government instead of some one-party political machine.

James Alvarez2 said:When was the last time you actually went to Mass for First Communicants?
How many parents actually showed up with their kids?...
What if they just moved religion class straight into the church? Imagine how much easier life would be...
When did the majority even decide on religious studies in schools...?
Persephone gave you a solid example—so what exactly is a midnight Mass?

A kid who learns their faith at home from their parents already knows what a dawn is...
Kids signed up for religion class... what happens if I don't enroll them? What'll Grandma Dawn say if I skip it? Honestly, whatever, let them go. I went when I was a kid and nothing bad happened... they don't even know. It's not like their morning prayer is some essential part of living a faithful life anyway...

You're bringing up Halloween and all those other weird traditions...
So you can't even explain to your kid why you guys don't celebrate it?
If you don't want it and you can't handle it, why on earth would you think anyone else wants kids sitting around waiting for a blessing over the bread...

If we go to church for a blessing at the start of the school year or to give thanks when things wrap up, why wouldn't we do the same for a loaf of bread?
Can I just have a harvest festival at school that doesn't involve some priest?

We claim to be over 80% Catholic, yet the churches are basically empty. Common sense? We're losing that bit by bit. Kids don't even know what a prayer looks like anymore... Confirmation is just an excuse for me to get an iPhone6+... And I only bother showing up to church when I'm getting married because I don't want my grandma judging me if I just go to the courthouse...
We want all the freedom in the world for ourselves, but the second someone else asks for it? Suddenly we're against it. We’ve basically turned into a bunch of gatekeepers... just like those stubborn folks over in the Midwest.

Still haven't heard a single believer say what would actually happen to religious ed if it moved back into the church... Not a peep about how many kids would even show up to class if that happened...

So you're claiming kids these days are all turning conservative? Where exactly are you seeing that? On your Facebook feed where you only follow people who agree with you?...
The upcoming lineup of youth leaders for the local parish programs here in Chicago... it’s gonna be a mess. You’ve basically got two groups. One side just blindly follows whatever their parents or teachers say without thinking for themselves. The other side? Their vocabulary is nothing but profanity, sports rants, and total political nonsense. It’s gonna be interesting watching this year unfold...

So I was talking about this religious studies teacher at my local elementary school—part of my parish, right? Anyway, he went totally ballistic on their Facebook page, picking fights with everyone because he just couldn't wrap his head around the fact that some of his own colleagues actually believe in evolution. He’s out here teaching that Eve came from Adam's rib, and he loses it if you don't buy into that. Like, seriously... you really want your kid learning from someone like that?

All this is just more reason to cut religion classes out of schools. And I'm not even talking about atheist arguments—those people can find plenty of reasons to complain on their own. I’m talking about the religious parents who actually want their kids in those classes because they grew up with them...
Alright, let's hear it. Lay out your arguments for those questions from earlier...
A football team isn't gonna win any championships if the entire fifth-grade class shows up to practice just to mess around... same thing goes for religion class. It’s impossible to get through the material if you've got a bunch of kids who couldn't care less about being there. And honestly? It doesn't matter what happens in the classroom if they aren't getting any support or foundation at home...

Edit: oh, please... explain how it’s somehow "fair" that you, as a Catholic, decide not to give money to "some feminist books," yet you think it's totally fine for an atheist, agnostic, Adventist, or Buddhist to have their tax dollars funneled straight into your church?

Just because someone blanks on a question doesn't mean they're clueless. It’s one thing to draw a blank in the moment; it’s not a whole personality trait or an actual argument. One instance means nothing.
You can't just take one guy's ignorance and apply it to everyone involved in religious studies classes.
Sure, it’s on parents and Sunday school teachers to pass down those values, but let's be real—what a kid actually picks up isn't just limited to what they're taught at home or in church.

James Alvarez2 said:When was the last time you actually went to Mass for First Communicants?
How many parents actually showed up with their kids?...
What if they just moved religion class straight into the church? Imagine how much easier life would be...
When did the majority even decide on religious studies in schools...?
Persephone gave you a solid example—so what exactly is a midnight Mass?

A kid who learns their faith at home from their parents already knows what a dawn is...
Kids signed up for religion class... what happens if I don't enroll them? What'll Grandma Dawn say if I skip it? Honestly, whatever, let them go. I went when I was a kid and nothing bad happened... they don't even know. It's not like their morning prayer is some essential part of living a faithful life anyway...

You're bringing up Halloween and all those other weird traditions...
So you can't even explain to your kid why you guys don't celebrate it?
If you don't want it and you can't handle it, why on earth would you think anyone else wants kids sitting around waiting for a blessing over the bread...

If we go to church for a blessing at the start of the school year or to give thanks when things wrap up, why wouldn't we do the same for a loaf of bread?
Can I just have a harvest festival at school that doesn't involve some priest?

We claim to be over 80% Catholic, yet the churches are basically empty. Common sense? We're losing that bit by bit. Kids don't even know what a prayer looks like anymore... Confirmation is just an excuse for me to get an iPhone6+... And I only bother showing up to church when I'm getting married because I don't want my grandma judging me if I just go to the courthouse...
We want all the freedom in the world for ourselves, but the second someone else asks for it? Suddenly we're against it. We’ve basically turned into a bunch of gatekeepers... just like those stubborn folks over in the Midwest.

Still haven't heard a single believer say what would actually happen to religious ed if it moved back into the church... Not a peep about how many kids would even show up to class if that happened...

So you're claiming kids these days are all turning conservative? Where exactly are you seeing that? On your Facebook feed where you only follow people who agree with you?...
The upcoming lineup of youth leaders for the local parish programs here in Chicago... it’s gonna be a mess. You’ve basically got two groups. One side just blindly follows whatever their parents or teachers say without thinking for themselves. The other side? Their vocabulary is nothing but profanity, sports rants, and total political nonsense. It’s gonna be interesting watching this year unfold...

So I was talking about this religious studies teacher at my local elementary school—part of my parish, right? Anyway, he went totally ballistic on their Facebook page, picking fights with everyone because he just couldn't wrap his head around the fact that some of his own colleagues actually believe in evolution. He’s out here teaching that Eve came from Adam's rib, and he loses it if you don't buy into that. Like, seriously... you really want your kid learning from someone like that?

All this is just more reason to cut religion classes out of schools. And I'm not even talking about atheist arguments—those people can find plenty of reasons to complain on their own. I’m talking about the religious parents who actually want their kids in those classes because they grew up with them...
Alright, let's hear it. Lay out your arguments for those questions from earlier...
A football team isn't gonna win any championships if the entire fifth-grade class shows up to practice just to mess around... same thing goes for religion class. It’s impossible to get through the material if you've got a bunch of kids who couldn't care less about being there. And honestly? It doesn't matter what happens in the classroom if they aren't getting any support or foundation at home...

Edit: oh, please... explain how it’s somehow "fair" that you, as a Catholic, decide not to give money to "some feminist books," yet you think it's totally fine for an atheist, agnostic, Adventist, or Buddhist to have their tax dollars funneled straight into your church?

And yeah, I already mentioned I explain Halloween to my kids.
At my local school with over 700 students, the priest doesn't even show up for the blessing of the bread or produce.
The kids and teachers just get together, snap some photos, eat cookies and pastries, and then the leftovers go to the food bank for the homeless.

James Alvarez2 said:When was the last time you actually went to Mass for First Communicants?
How many parents actually showed up with their kids?...
What if they just moved religion class straight into the church? Imagine how much easier life would be...
When did the majority even decide on religious studies in schools...?
Persephone gave you a solid example—so what exactly is a midnight Mass?

A kid who learns their faith at home from their parents already knows what a dawn is...
Kids signed up for religion class... what happens if I don't enroll them? What'll Grandma Dawn say if I skip it? Honestly, whatever, let them go. I went when I was a kid and nothing bad happened... they don't even know. It's not like their morning prayer is some essential part of living a faithful life anyway...

You're bringing up Halloween and all those other weird traditions...
So you can't even explain to your kid why you guys don't celebrate it?
If you don't want it and you can't handle it, why on earth would you think anyone else wants kids sitting around waiting for a blessing over the bread...

If we go to church for a blessing at the start of the school year or to give thanks when things wrap up, why wouldn't we do the same for a loaf of bread?
Can I just have a harvest festival at school that doesn't involve some priest?

We claim to be over 80% Catholic, yet the churches are basically empty. Common sense? We're losing that bit by bit. Kids don't even know what a prayer looks like anymore... Confirmation is just an excuse for me to get an iPhone6+... And I only bother showing up to church when I'm getting married because I don't want my grandma judging me if I just go to the courthouse...
We want all the freedom in the world for ourselves, but the second someone else asks for it? Suddenly we're against it. We’ve basically turned into a bunch of gatekeepers... just like those stubborn folks over in the Midwest.

Still haven't heard a single believer say what would actually happen to religious ed if it moved back into the church... Not a peep about how many kids would even show up to class if that happened...

So you're claiming kids these days are all turning conservative? Where exactly are you seeing that? On your Facebook feed where you only follow people who agree with you?...
The upcoming lineup of youth leaders for the local parish programs here in Chicago... it’s gonna be a mess. You’ve basically got two groups. One side just blindly follows whatever their parents or teachers say without thinking for themselves. The other side? Their vocabulary is nothing but profanity, sports rants, and total political nonsense. It’s gonna be interesting watching this year unfold...

So I was talking about this religious studies teacher at my local elementary school—part of my parish, right? Anyway, he went totally ballistic on their Facebook page, picking fights with everyone because he just couldn't wrap his head around the fact that some of his own colleagues actually believe in evolution. He’s out here teaching that Eve came from Adam's rib, and he loses it if you don't buy into that. Like, seriously... you really want your kid learning from someone like that?

All this is just more reason to cut religion classes out of schools. And I'm not even talking about atheist arguments—those people can find plenty of reasons to complain on their own. I’m talking about the religious parents who actually want their kids in those classes because they grew up with them...
Alright, let's hear it. Lay out your arguments for those questions from earlier...
A football team isn't gonna win any championships if the entire fifth-grade class shows up to practice just to mess around... same thing goes for religion class. It’s impossible to get through the material if you've got a bunch of kids who couldn't care less about being there. And honestly? It doesn't matter what happens in the classroom if they aren't getting any support or foundation at home...

Edit: oh, please... explain how it’s somehow "fair" that you, as a Catholic, decide not to give money to "some feminist books," yet you think it's totally fine for an atheist, agnostic, Adventist, or Buddhist to have their tax dollars funneled straight into your church?

In my liberal city, the churches are actually packed. You can't even find a seat during Easter services. So, I guess I'll just happily note that even the liberals are going to church. 🙂

James Alvarez2 said:When was the last time you actually went to Mass for First Communicants?
How many parents actually showed up with their kids?...
What if they just moved religion class straight into the church? Imagine how much easier life would be...
When did the majority even decide on religious studies in schools...?
Persephone gave you a solid example—so what exactly is a midnight Mass?

A kid who learns their faith at home from their parents already knows what a dawn is...
Kids signed up for religion class... what happens if I don't enroll them? What'll Grandma Dawn say if I skip it? Honestly, whatever, let them go. I went when I was a kid and nothing bad happened... they don't even know. It's not like their morning prayer is some essential part of living a faithful life anyway...

You're bringing up Halloween and all those other weird traditions...
So you can't even explain to your kid why you guys don't celebrate it?
If you don't want it and you can't handle it, why on earth would you think anyone else wants kids sitting around waiting for a blessing over the bread...

If we go to church for a blessing at the start of the school year or to give thanks when things wrap up, why wouldn't we do the same for a loaf of bread?
Can I just have a harvest festival at school that doesn't involve some priest?

We claim to be over 80% Catholic, yet the churches are basically empty. Common sense? We're losing that bit by bit. Kids don't even know what a prayer looks like anymore... Confirmation is just an excuse for me to get an iPhone6+... And I only bother showing up to church when I'm getting married because I don't want my grandma judging me if I just go to the courthouse...
We want all the freedom in the world for ourselves, but the second someone else asks for it? Suddenly we're against it. We’ve basically turned into a bunch of gatekeepers... just like those stubborn folks over in the Midwest.

Still haven't heard a single believer say what would actually happen to religious ed if it moved back into the church... Not a peep about how many kids would even show up to class if that happened...

So you're claiming kids these days are all turning conservative? Where exactly are you seeing that? On your Facebook feed where you only follow people who agree with you?...
The upcoming lineup of youth leaders for the local parish programs here in Chicago... it’s gonna be a mess. You’ve basically got two groups. One side just blindly follows whatever their parents or teachers say without thinking for themselves. The other side? Their vocabulary is nothing but profanity, sports rants, and total political nonsense. It’s gonna be interesting watching this year unfold...

So I was talking about this religious studies teacher at my local elementary school—part of my parish, right? Anyway, he went totally ballistic on their Facebook page, picking fights with everyone because he just couldn't wrap his head around the fact that some of his own colleagues actually believe in evolution. He’s out here teaching that Eve came from Adam's rib, and he loses it if you don't buy into that. Like, seriously... you really want your kid learning from someone like that?

All this is just more reason to cut religion classes out of schools. And I'm not even talking about atheist arguments—those people can find plenty of reasons to complain on their own. I’m talking about the religious parents who actually want their kids in those classes because they grew up with them...
Alright, let's hear it. Lay out your arguments for those questions from earlier...
A football team isn't gonna win any championships if the entire fifth-grade class shows up to practice just to mess around... same thing goes for religion class. It’s impossible to get through the material if you've got a bunch of kids who couldn't care less about being there. And honestly? It doesn't matter what happens in the classroom if they aren't getting any support or foundation at home...

Edit: oh, please... explain how it’s somehow "fair" that you, as a Catholic, decide not to give money to "some feminist books," yet you think it's totally fine for an atheist, agnostic, Adventist, or Buddhist to have their tax dollars funneled straight into your church?

Already answered this one.

James Alvarez2 said:When was the last time you actually went to Mass for First Communicants?
How many parents actually showed up with their kids?...
What if they just moved religion class straight into the church? Imagine how much easier life would be...
When did the majority even decide on religious studies in schools...?
Persephone gave you a solid example—so what exactly is a midnight Mass?

A kid who learns their faith at home from their parents already knows what a dawn is...
Kids signed up for religion class... what happens if I don't enroll them? What'll Grandma Dawn say if I skip it? Honestly, whatever, let them go. I went when I was a kid and nothing bad happened... they don't even know. It's not like their morning prayer is some essential part of living a faithful life anyway...

You're bringing up Halloween and all those other weird traditions...
So you can't even explain to your kid why you guys don't celebrate it?
If you don't want it and you can't handle it, why on earth would you think anyone else wants kids sitting around waiting for a blessing over the bread...

If we go to church for a blessing at the start of the school year or to give thanks when things wrap up, why wouldn't we do the same for a loaf of bread?
Can I just have a harvest festival at school that doesn't involve some priest?

We claim to be over 80% Catholic, yet the churches are basically empty. Common sense? We're losing that bit by bit. Kids don't even know what a prayer looks like anymore... Confirmation is just an excuse for me to get an iPhone6+... And I only bother showing up to church when I'm getting married because I don't want my grandma judging me if I just go to the courthouse...
We want all the freedom in the world for ourselves, but the second someone else asks for it? Suddenly we're against it. We’ve basically turned into a bunch of gatekeepers... just like those stubborn folks over in the Midwest.

Still haven't heard a single believer say what would actually happen to religious ed if it moved back into the church... Not a peep about how many kids would even show up to class if that happened...

So you're claiming kids these days are all turning conservative? Where exactly are you seeing that? On your Facebook feed where you only follow people who agree with you?...
The upcoming lineup of youth leaders for the local parish programs here in Chicago... it’s gonna be a mess. You’ve basically got two groups. One side just blindly follows whatever their parents or teachers say without thinking for themselves. The other side? Their vocabulary is nothing but profanity, sports rants, and total political nonsense. It’s gonna be interesting watching this year unfold...

So I was talking about this religious studies teacher at my local elementary school—part of my parish, right? Anyway, he went totally ballistic on their Facebook page, picking fights with everyone because he just couldn't wrap his head around the fact that some of his own colleagues actually believe in evolution. He’s out here teaching that Eve came from Adam's rib, and he loses it if you don't buy into that. Like, seriously... you really want your kid learning from someone like that?

All this is just more reason to cut religion classes out of schools. And I'm not even talking about atheist arguments—those people can find plenty of reasons to complain on their own. I’m talking about the religious parents who actually want their kids in those classes because they grew up with them...
Alright, let's hear it. Lay out your arguments for those questions from earlier...
A football team isn't gonna win any championships if the entire fifth-grade class shows up to practice just to mess around... same thing goes for religion class. It’s impossible to get through the material if you've got a bunch of kids who couldn't care less about being there. And honestly? It doesn't matter what happens in the classroom if they aren't getting any support or foundation at home...

Edit: oh, please... explain how it’s somehow "fair" that you, as a Catholic, decide not to give money to "some feminist books," yet you think it's totally fine for an atheist, agnostic, Adventist, or Buddhist to have their tax dollars funneled straight into your church?

http://www.nytimes.com/research-on-secularization/1475622/
According to the study, there aren't any indicators of secularization processes in America that would hit the younger population first, unlike what's been seen in places like Europe.
.....42 percent of students are pro-abortion ban...

James Alvarez2 said:When was the last time you actually went to Mass for First Communicants?
How many parents actually showed up with their kids?...
What if they just moved religion class straight into the church? Imagine how much easier life would be...
When did the majority even decide on religious studies in schools...?
Persephone gave you a solid example—so what exactly is a midnight Mass?

A kid who learns their faith at home from their parents already knows what a dawn is...
Kids signed up for religion class... what happens if I don't enroll them? What'll Grandma Dawn say if I skip it? Honestly, whatever, let them go. I went when I was a kid and nothing bad happened... they don't even know. It's not like their morning prayer is some essential part of living a faithful life anyway...

You're bringing up Halloween and all those other weird traditions...
So you can't even explain to your kid why you guys don't celebrate it?
If you don't want it and you can't handle it, why on earth would you think anyone else wants kids sitting around waiting for a blessing over the bread...

If we go to church for a blessing at the start of the school year or to give thanks when things wrap up, why wouldn't we do the same for a loaf of bread?
Can I just have a harvest festival at school that doesn't involve some priest?

We claim to be over 80% Catholic, yet the churches are basically empty. Common sense? We're losing that bit by bit. Kids don't even know what a prayer looks like anymore... Confirmation is just an excuse for me to get an iPhone6+... And I only bother showing up to church when I'm getting married because I don't want my grandma judging me if I just go to the courthouse...
We want all the freedom in the world for ourselves, but the second someone else asks for it? Suddenly we're against it. We’ve basically turned into a bunch of gatekeepers... just like those stubborn folks over in the Midwest.

Still haven't heard a single believer say what would actually happen to religious ed if it moved back into the church... Not a peep about how many kids would even show up to class if that happened...

So you're claiming kids these days are all turning conservative? Where exactly are you seeing that? On your Facebook feed where you only follow people who agree with you?...
The upcoming lineup of youth leaders for the local parish programs here in Chicago... it’s gonna be a mess. You’ve basically got two groups. One side just blindly follows whatever their parents or teachers say without thinking for themselves. The other side? Their vocabulary is nothing but profanity, sports rants, and total political nonsense. It’s gonna be interesting watching this year unfold...

So I was talking about this religious studies teacher at my local elementary school—part of my parish, right? Anyway, he went totally ballistic on their Facebook page, picking fights with everyone because he just couldn't wrap his head around the fact that some of his own colleagues actually believe in evolution. He’s out here teaching that Eve came from Adam's rib, and he loses it if you don't buy into that. Like, seriously... you really want your kid learning from someone like that?

All this is just more reason to cut religion classes out of schools. And I'm not even talking about atheist arguments—those people can find plenty of reasons to complain on their own. I’m talking about the religious parents who actually want their kids in those classes because they grew up with them...
Alright, let's hear it. Lay out your arguments for those questions from earlier...
A football team isn't gonna win any championships if the entire fifth-grade class shows up to practice just to mess around... same thing goes for religion class. It’s impossible to get through the material if you've got a bunch of kids who couldn't care less about being there. And honestly? It doesn't matter what happens in the classroom if they aren't getting any support or foundation at home...

Edit: oh, please... explain how it’s somehow "fair" that you, as a Catholic, decide not to give money to "some feminist books," yet you think it's totally fine for an atheist, agnostic, Adventist, or Buddhist to have their tax dollars funneled straight into your church?

Church doctrine isn't actually at odds with evolution, it just doesn't buy into things like spontaneous abiogenesis that some people push.
Science hasn't cracked the code yet, and the Church believes God set life on Earth in motion.
If that teacher is sticking to a hardline fundamentalist creationist take on Genesis, then he's totally ignoring actual Catholic teaching.

James Alvarez2 said:When was the last time you actually went to Mass for First Communicants?
How many parents actually showed up with their kids?...
What if they just moved religion class straight into the church? Imagine how much easier life would be...
When did the majority even decide on religious studies in schools...?
Persephone gave you a solid example—so what exactly is a midnight Mass?

A kid who learns their faith at home from their parents already knows what a dawn is...
Kids signed up for religion class... what happens if I don't enroll them? What'll Grandma Dawn say if I skip it? Honestly, whatever, let them go. I went when I was a kid and nothing bad happened... they don't even know. It's not like their morning prayer is some essential part of living a faithful life anyway...

You're bringing up Halloween and all those other weird traditions...
So you can't even explain to your kid why you guys don't celebrate it?
If you don't want it and you can't handle it, why on earth would you think anyone else wants kids sitting around waiting for a blessing over the bread...

If we go to church for a blessing at the start of the school year or to give thanks when things wrap up, why wouldn't we do the same for a loaf of bread?
Can I just have a harvest festival at school that doesn't involve some priest?

We claim to be over 80% Catholic, yet the churches are basically empty. Common sense? We're losing that bit by bit. Kids don't even know what a prayer looks like anymore... Confirmation is just an excuse for me to get an iPhone6+... And I only bother showing up to church when I'm getting married because I don't want my grandma judging me if I just go to the courthouse...
We want all the freedom in the world for ourselves, but the second someone else asks for it? Suddenly we're against it. We’ve basically turned into a bunch of gatekeepers... just like those stubborn folks over in the Midwest.

Still haven't heard a single believer say what would actually happen to religious ed if it moved back into the church... Not a peep about how many kids would even show up to class if that happened...

So you're claiming kids these days are all turning conservative? Where exactly are you seeing that? On your Facebook feed where you only follow people who agree with you?...
The upcoming lineup of youth leaders for the local parish programs here in Chicago... it’s gonna be a mess. You’ve basically got two groups. One side just blindly follows whatever their parents or teachers say without thinking for themselves. The other side? Their vocabulary is nothing but profanity, sports rants, and total political nonsense. It’s gonna be interesting watching this year unfold...

So I was talking about this religious studies teacher at my local elementary school—part of my parish, right? Anyway, he went totally ballistic on their Facebook page, picking fights with everyone because he just couldn't wrap his head around the fact that some of his own colleagues actually believe in evolution. He’s out here teaching that Eve came from Adam's rib, and he loses it if you don't buy into that. Like, seriously... you really want your kid learning from someone like that?

All this is just more reason to cut religion classes out of schools. And I'm not even talking about atheist arguments—those people can find plenty of reasons to complain on their own. I’m talking about the religious parents who actually want their kids in those classes because they grew up with them...
Alright, let's hear it. Lay out your arguments for those questions from earlier...
A football team isn't gonna win any championships if the entire fifth-grade class shows up to practice just to mess around... same thing goes for religion class. It’s impossible to get through the material if you've got a bunch of kids who couldn't care less about being there. And honestly? It doesn't matter what happens in the classroom if they aren't getting any support or foundation at home...

Edit: oh, please... explain how it’s somehow "fair" that you, as a Catholic, decide not to give money to "some feminist books," yet you think it's totally fine for an atheist, agnostic, Adventist, or Buddhist to have their tax dollars funneled straight into your church?

Religion class is open to anyone who wants to sign up, even if it's faith-based. When it gets into the confession and prayer stuff, they're basically just observers. Everyone has a choice.
Kids actually find it pretty interesting because it hits those deep, existential questions about why we're even here.

James Alvarez2 said:When was the last time you actually went to Mass for First Communicants?
How many parents actually showed up with their kids?...
What if they just moved religion class straight into the church? Imagine how much easier life would be...
When did the majority even decide on religious studies in schools...?
Persephone gave you a solid example—so what exactly is a midnight Mass?

A kid who learns their faith at home from their parents already knows what a dawn is...
Kids signed up for religion class... what happens if I don't enroll them? What'll Grandma Dawn say if I skip it? Honestly, whatever, let them go. I went when I was a kid and nothing bad happened... they don't even know. It's not like their morning prayer is some essential part of living a faithful life anyway...

You're bringing up Halloween and all those other weird traditions...
So you can't even explain to your kid why you guys don't celebrate it?
If you don't want it and you can't handle it, why on earth would you think anyone else wants kids sitting around waiting for a blessing over the bread...

If we go to church for a blessing at the start of the school year or to give thanks when things wrap up, why wouldn't we do the same for a loaf of bread?
Can I just have a harvest festival at school that doesn't involve some priest?

We claim to be over 80% Catholic, yet the churches are basically empty. Common sense? We're losing that bit by bit. Kids don't even know what a prayer looks like anymore... Confirmation is just an excuse for me to get an iPhone6+... And I only bother showing up to church when I'm getting married because I don't want my grandma judging me if I just go to the courthouse...
We want all the freedom in the world for ourselves, but the second someone else asks for it? Suddenly we're against it. We’ve basically turned into a bunch of gatekeepers... just like those stubborn folks over in the Midwest.

Still haven't heard a single believer say what would actually happen to religious ed if it moved back into the church... Not a peep about how many kids would even show up to class if that happened...

So you're claiming kids these days are all turning conservative? Where exactly are you seeing that? On your Facebook feed where you only follow people who agree with you?...
The upcoming lineup of youth leaders for the local parish programs here in Chicago... it’s gonna be a mess. You’ve basically got two groups. One side just blindly follows whatever their parents or teachers say without thinking for themselves. The other side? Their vocabulary is nothing but profanity, sports rants, and total political nonsense. It’s gonna be interesting watching this year unfold...

So I was talking about this religious studies teacher at my local elementary school—part of my parish, right? Anyway, he went totally ballistic on their Facebook page, picking fights with everyone because he just couldn't wrap his head around the fact that some of his own colleagues actually believe in evolution. He’s out here teaching that Eve came from Adam's rib, and he loses it if you don't buy into that. Like, seriously... you really want your kid learning from someone like that?

All this is just more reason to cut religion classes out of schools. And I'm not even talking about atheist arguments—those people can find plenty of reasons to complain on their own. I’m talking about the religious parents who actually want their kids in those classes because they grew up with them...
Alright, let's hear it. Lay out your arguments for those questions from earlier...
A football team isn't gonna win any championships if the entire fifth-grade class shows up to practice just to mess around... same thing goes for religion class. It’s impossible to get through the material if you've got a bunch of kids who couldn't care less about being there. And honestly? It doesn't matter what happens in the classroom if they aren't getting any support or foundation at home...

Edit: oh, please... explain how it’s somehow "fair" that you, as a Catholic, decide not to give money to "some feminist books," yet you think it's totally fine for an atheist, agnostic, Adventist, or Buddhist to have their tax dollars funneled straight into your church?

Look, when a believer pays taxes, they're funding organizations they might not even agree with. It works both ways.
That's just how democracy functions in most places. Maybe one day it'll change, who knows.
In some parts of Europe, they're already changing it.

brighteagle86 said:From Thief, I haven't felt this nauseated reading a piece of text since... well, since reading your last post.

So it's a hit because you can't really hide how intense those physical sensations feel, especially when we're talking about Catholic doctrine.

Nah, for a Christian, this is just a sign that things are going exactly how Jesus said they would.

wanderingbadger44 said:🤣

Do you really think I have a memory like that? Look, I'm not going to sit here and claim you made it up; it’s entirely possible that conversation happened.

But that isn't why I brought up the topic of abortion.

My point was actually to show you that the legal precedent you were using to justify special privileges for religious studies is a pretty shaky foundation. You asserted quite boldly that religious education deserves its status simply because the law allows it, so I gently pointed out that the same legal framework also permits abortion. In that specific instance, it seems you aren't nearly as keen on following the letter of the law.

I am sorry for circling back to this tangent, as it really isn't the heart of our discussion, but I felt I had to set the record straight regarding what you said. I truly don't recall things that way.

Anyway, I won't bring it up again. 🙂

Look, I respect the law, and I respect women who make that choice, but personally? I still see it as a heavy moral sin.

wanderingbadger44 said:Whoever exalts himself will be humbled; (Matt. 23:8)

(...) shepherd the flock of God that has been entrusted to you, watch over it – (...) not as masters over those entrusted to you, but as examples to the flock. (1 Pet 5)

Honestly, please, don't mention it. 🙂

Look, being "humbled" in a religious sense isn't what I'm talking about when I bring up Catholic doctrine as a school subject. That’s a different ballgame.

I'm talking about the deep stuff—how you actually live your life, from how you think and feel to the spiritual side that carries you through everything... whether you choose to stand by your values or just screw them up.

If you want to dissect Bible verses, maybe check out the Religion PDF instead.

silentraven6 said:Don't sweat it. People have been swallowing bullshit in the name of the Lord over this exact subject for twenty-five years now. Anyone here shouting His name in vain is a hundred times smaller than the person clinging to Him, because at least the one holding on has a real relationship with Him, rather than just some personal moral maxim they've extracted from Him.

You clearly haven't spent enough time digging through philosophical or spiritual literature. I hold my colleagues from the Society of Jesus in extremely high regard; you should try attending a lecture or something to get a better handle on ontological categories. Right now, your posts read like the dismissive sneers of some amateur philosopher who hasn't even cracked a book by Aquinas.

I haven't been on this forum for even a day and I'm already over these tired jokes.

Look, let's get back to the point. It's not about me. It's about what we're actually talking about here.

Faith isn't just some solo spiritual thing. It's social. People exist in families and communities, not just in their own heads.

Religious expression is totally protected by the Constitution, whether someone does it through private prayer or through religious education classes in school. In the US, we have all sorts of different denominations, and honestly, groups like the local Islamic community are pretty happy with how things are set up here.

We’re still a young nation, just finding our footing as a free society. Having different faiths is actually a strength, and I honestly think dialogue and tolerance should be the whole mission for any modern school.