Posts by jadehound53

Here is some actual good news out of Cleveland—the direct result of competition finally breaking a monopoly:

from Nov List:

CLEVELAND – Starting next week, twenty-six local taxi drivers will voluntarily slash their rates, meaning you can now cruise through Cleveland for just $10. This was decided at yesterday’s meeting where initiative signers gathered to discuss the current state of the local industry—an industry currently being squeezed by competition from the Klifton Taxi Service based out of San Diego. The verdict from the frustrated drivers was simple: adapt to the new market reality or get off the road entirely. They aren't just struggling against the San Diego competition, but also dealing with total chaos within the Cleveland Taxi Section, following the resignation of its president, Ivan Perković; the remaining drivers seem largely uninterested in strategizing how to actually compete via lower pricing.
– We have nobody left to drive; customers are fleeing to Klifton because they're cheaper. We have to meet the standards of Cleveland residents or we risk losing everything. That is why this initiative started—26 out of 43 drivers have already signed on. Since we only need a third of the Cleveland Taxi Section members to approve a rate change, we have every right to move forward with this plan, which we intend to do, said driver Vladislav Petrović...

...As a reminder, the debate over whether to hike or slash taxi fares began back in March when there was a proposal to drop rates by a full 40 percent—similar to what the drivers are suggesting now. A new price list was implemented in early April, but it didn't last long because several drivers demanded a return to the old rates. By May, a fixed rate was finally set at $6.75 for the base fare plus $2.25 per kilometer. In the interim, the San Diego-based Klifton jumped into the fray, snatching up the lion's share of rides from both local and San Diego drivers due to their low prices, forcing everyone else back to the drawing board to reconsider their service costs...

Andrew Hernandez said:A case study from San Diego

The taxi services are overpriced, the fleet is aging, and the drivers—well, let’s just say they aren't exactly welcoming...

About a year ago, a new service called City Car started operating in town, offering much better rates and newer vehicles.

Since then, the streets have basically turned into the Wild West.

The taxi drivers viewed this new competition as an act of war.

It has escalated to the point where City Car vehicles are being intercepted on the street—passengers are actually being pulled out of them and forced into taxis. 😁
There was even one incident involving a driver's wife hiring a City Car just to lure someone into a secluded alleyway, where several taxis were waiting to engage in some "friendly" persuasion.

This pretty much explains why the taxi industry remains a monopoly in America—more accurately, a mafia monopoly.
If you think about it logically, you eventually realize this syndicate holds enough sway over local government to ensure they stay protected.

It is disgraceful, yet somehow surprising how we all just accept it as the status quo. We have simply become accustomed to the idea that a taxi is prohibitiously expensive and something you only use as a last resort.
One can only imagine the ordeals business travelers or tourists face when visiting America.

It would be refreshing if a political party actually stepped up to address this and finally dismantled this blatant monopoly.

Consider my vote cast👍

Jeremy Turner3 said:That’s likely where the confusion lies—though this doesn't explicitly state it—it says you need to pay dues and meet certain criteria only if you want to join the association. It says nothing about being barred from walking into a municipal office to request a concession without becoming a member first.

Someone with actual expertise should weigh in here.

I can't help but feel a bit "nostalgic" reading your post:
it reminds me of those days when you had to check all the boxes, pay your dues, and join the Party.

As for why there isn't another party to join? Well, nobody seems to know. 🙂

If you ask me, this is a textbook monopoly—let's just call it Yellow Cab.

The fact that they dictate their own rules—including those ridiculous $3.25 registration fees just to get on the dispatch line—is entirely their own issue.

The real issue lies elsewhere; there’s a distinct stench coming from the total lack of any competing associations. I suspect folks have tried to start their own groups in the past, but the "powers that be" likely shut them down.

Does anyone actually have the inside scoop on how this single taxi association managed to seize control of Washington, D.C.?

Thanks for your input, Jeremy Turner3,

for the record, here are the official sites and what you can expect to pay for an Uber in Washington, D.C.:

Jeremy Turner3 said:jadehound53,

I agree—competition is essential—provided it isn’t total anarchy, but rather some form of regulated market competition. I have held that view from the beginning.

However, once you actually dig into the data, you realize that while competition likely drives up quality, the price point tends to remain relatively static. We might see a marginal dip here or there, but nothing revolutionary.

Admittedly, comparing cities is a bit of an exercise in futility since every municipality operates under its own set of variables. You have to account for the cost of living, gas prices, public transit reliability, road infrastructure, employment hubs, and general traffic patterns—essentially, whether the commercial centers are concentrated or decentralized. It's a massive list of factors. To get a meaningful comparison, one would probably be better off looking at Washington, D.C. versus similar-sized Mid-Atlantic cities with comparable infrastructure and standards... then we might actually have a realistic picture.

At least nowadays, it takes very little effort to look online and see how many taxi services are operating in places like Mexico City or Ljubljana:



http://www.autoberza.info/company/se...?categoryId=46



http://www.hit-taxi.com/ang.htm

A quick scan of these sites reveals about 20 services in Mexico City and 10 in Ljubljana—whereas Washington, D.C. is stuck with just one, effectively a monopoly.

In both those cases, rates are lower than in Washington, D.C. (which shouldn't surprise anyone), but the interesting part is the base fare. In those cities, the starting fee is roughly equal to or less than the cost of a single mile, whereas the Washington, D.C. service charges almost 2.5 miles right out of the gate.
There are also loyalty discounts based on frequency of use, which—of course—is a direct byproduct of a competitive free market.

Doing the research is trivial—just hit Yahoo and search "Ljubljana taxi" or "Mexico City taxi."

Jeremy Turner3 said:I haven't even considered demand—these offers are already failures.

jadehound53, I don't want to sound like I'm lecturing you—though I should probably caveat that now since people tend to get prickly—but the reality is that everyone has a starting cost. This isn't some niche local business model; as far as I know, everyone incurs overhead. In our case, they have $8.25, which seems perfectly reasonable. If you don't account for that, you end up wasting 20 or 30 minutes just picking someone up, then another 10 minutes driving them two miles, and by the time you head back to base, you've burned 45 minutes just to earn $2.00. If demand were so massive that you could just circle the streets waiting for riders, I might understand skipping the initial costs, but that’s completely unrealistic. I don't know—maybe I saw drivers doing that in New York City, but I'm fairly certain even there, most Uber drivers operate based on dispatch calls.

You can't just say, "Here's three bucks," and assume you've hit equilibrium. You can't make that call without knowing the total overhead, the demand, or the competition... but I can tell you this: if you have a franchise license and you're working non-stop, you likely wouldn't even break even at that price.

Dear Jeremy Turner3,

My apologies if I was a bit provocative or offensive at the start; please accept my apologies.

In my view, the base fare doesn't really matter in this specific concept. This type of Uber service wouldn't rely on fixed stands; they'd be constantly moving, eliminating the need for the current model where a driver hunts for a "victim" and drives ten miles just to fleece them. Though, I suspect they don't even hunt for victims when they are far from 1.9 miles.
You don't even need to go to New York City to see this kind of service. Athens has a similar service where riding an Uber is actually cheaper than taking public transit.

And let's not get hung up on the $1.00 right away. Whether it's 3.33 or 2.99, it's secondary—the core concept is what matters here.

Ultimately, success comes down to better organization, fresh ideas, and hard work. Jeremy Turner3, isn't that the fundamental principle of the country you live in?

Charles Hill78 said:The government sets the mileage reimbursement rate—say, at $0.67 per mile for gas—to roughly account for vehicle depreciation. They wouldn't greenlight a number that low if the actual wear and tear didn't justify it.

I appreciate your breakdown, but I have to offer a slight correction.

It seems most people in the States still approach this logic the same way:

"Well, the IRS says the cost is X..."

But frankly, what the government dictates has nothing to do with the actual operating costs of your specific company or setup.

We’re all still stuck thinking along these lines:
"How much should I charge so that I actually make a profit without killing myself with the workload?"

It is refreshing to see we have finally acknowledged that improved logistics, increased effort, and actual competition can drive down Uber prices.

The figure I mentioned is merely an estimate—though it remains significantly lower than what people are paying right now.

The core objective here is to slash Uber rates; there is simply no logical reason for passengers to subsidize poor organization or the inefficiency of drivers idling at stands.

Subpar management—or sheer laziness—should never be a justification for inflated service costs; fortunately, there is a cure for that, and it goes by the name of competition.

Jeremy Turner3 said:Give us some more details... what kind of cars are we talking about—models, age, etc.?

How many miles do you think an Uber driver would actually clock in a day in that scenario—let's say even without competition, assuming you landed a franchise just like the current guys, but offered better terms?

The fleet would definitely be diesel—but that’s beside the point right now.

This is purely my own estimation.

If you have any grasp of basic market economics—and I highly doubt you do—this price represents where the point of equilibrium would likely sit.

Get it now?point of equilibrium

rapidpuma43 said:So, if I were running my own business—say, an Uber fleet—and had to set rates for both myself and my partner, here’s how the math would actually look in a real-world scenario.🙄 ?
To be honest, I'm not entirely convinced they would be any lower—but well... I am genuinely curious to see what the bus driver had to say about it.🙄

$1.00 Per mile, let's go. $0.00,

My Uber drivers would be running non-stop—they wouldn't even need a designated staging area.

Would people actually bother calling an Uber at these rates?

Dear Jamie Newman40,

I see you’ve taken up being Donald's defense attorney—just another side hustle in your growing list of occupations, I suppose.

Like him, you’ve completely missed the point here. Do me a favor and actually read the thread title for once.

Let’s be honest: most of you headed abroad primarily for the paycheck—though, unfortunately, some had no choice due to the war.
Think back to what was actually crossing your mind while you were packing your bags for that long journey. You weren't exactly dreaming about finding the perfect moral compass for your kids, were you? And picking the USA as the gold standard for upbringing? Please. You wouldn't even let them walk to the corner store without worrying about some creep snatching them.

Also, please—both you and Donald—stick to your day jobs. You spend so much time rambling about economics when you clearly have zero clue how it works and have never worked in the field.

And just so we're clear, I love slapping labels on people too. I'm a North American just like the rest of you.😛

Jeremy Turner3 said:Even your average American can't afford to take an Uber back and forth every single day.

It isn't just about cost—the typical American also views ride-sharing as a luxury. Then you have people in America with these totally delusional expectations—thinking they can just wave a hand like a movie character, get a car to stop, go wherever they want, and toss a few coins at the driver—but that’s a different conversation entirely. Besides, jadehound53 started this under the assumption that he'd actually prefer an Uber over the smelly MTA... and for those who haven't traveled much, the MTA is actually decent public transit; don't go thinking things are infinitely better everywhere else.

Jeremy,

The point of this thread isn't to crunch numbers comparing life in the USA versus life in America.
We are dealing with something fundamental here:

Jeremy, do you support a monopoly or a competitive economy—the kind you actually live in?

And please, stop acting like some authority just because you reside in the USA. You've seen a tiny slice of the world and now you think you can lecture everyone back home. You're quite the theorist—have you ever actually tried doing anything tangible in America? Running a private business, for instance?

The "standard" there is what it is simply because, in most cases, you don't deal with monopolies; competition forces you to actually perform. Your biggest expense is likely a mortgage (I still have no clue which city you're in). That is the one area where I agree: your cost of living is higher. In the USA, everything revolves around real estate—it's the primary investment for most people—everything else is mostly just fluff. Aside from the fact that your healthcare is a disaster and other issues, but let's not go there; we'd need a whole new thread for that.

Once again, the topic here is strictly about monopolies—specifically the taxi situation in America—not a comparison of American and American standards.

👍

rapidpuma43 said:*they never give you a receipt for their service (at least not in the early morning hours)
*they cheat—and I mean they seriously rip you off

For example:
An overnight/early morning ride (around 04:30 AM):
a) from the downtown area to a park = $25
b) from one side of the park to the other side of the neighborhood = $28
How is that even possible? 😕
(Sure, we waited 10 minutes at the exit, but still... this is way too much. Just ridiculous.

Jeremy Turner3,

rapidpuma43 explained pretty clearly above how much an Uber costs in Chicago.

And if you want the official price list, here it is straight from their website:

UBER SERVICE PRICE LIST

Base Fare $8.25
Per mile $2.25
Waiting per hour $27
Luggage per item $1.75

Nighttime rides from 10 PM to 5 AM, plus Sundays and holidays from 5 AM to 10 PM, incur a 20% surcharge on the total meter amount.

one dollar = $2.25

And please, don't try to compare the USA to America. That’s like comparing apples to oranges.

I'm giving you the rates just because you asked, but also for anyone else who doesn't know so those crooks can't rip them off.

It makes zero sense to compare prices by looking strictly at raw numbers. Here is why:

True, gas is cheaper in the USA, but taxis run on V6 or V8 engines and burn at least 15-20 liters per 62 miles—or whatever your miles-per-gallon equivalent would be.
Here, unlike in the USA, there is the option to buy efficient diesel cars that consume significantly less, which is what most drivers actually use.

If you really want to compare, just ask yourself how many hours the average worker in America has to work to afford a 10-mile taxi ride. Probably about 2 hours.
For that same ride in Chicago, the average worker here would have to work about 2 days.

Do you see now why your comparison is flawed?

By comparing nothing but the raw numbers, it seems to me that a taxi in Chicago is more expensive—or at least very similar—to yours back home in the USA!!! Wow!

And finally, Chicago still basically functions with just one major taxi company (relics of the old era).

How many companies do you have in your city? (I'm sure there are at least two).

And what is the name of this city of yours?

Jeremy Turner3, thanks for your input first off.

Generally speaking, I disagree. Your whole argument rests on the idea of laziness—as if we aren't earning enough. If we actually had the capital, we’d have an Uber service and everything else.

Imagine if someone opening a pizza shop in Chicago had to beg for a government permit just to exist. If you make pizzas this size and deliver them in green cars, then sure, you can open up in our "great metropolis." It’s pure nonsense, isn't it?

That’s precisely the point. Competition breeds innovation, though it does require effort—both mental and physical. You know this better than anyone, living in the USA. A monopoly is one of the greatest enemies within the American system. Competition is what creates jobs and drives the economy. Wouldn't it be better for everyone to actually work rather than letting a single monopoly dictate when they feel like operating and at what price?

And it isn't just about ride-sharing apps. It goes much deeper with massive corporations like AT&T or ExxonMobil. Of course, politicians protect their interests there—we all know why. The money flows quite nicely, and they don't have to lift a finger; they just talk, cling to power as long as possible, and God forbid, let people realize this still feels like old-school socialist self-management.

At the end of the day, it's easier to decide for yourself when and how much it's worth working, rather than having to grit your teeth and figure out how to improve your service to beat out the competition. That part isn't easy, my friend. We might even lose the government before we ever get around to planning it...

😎