I mean, seriously, what are we even doing here? Is anyone actually paying attention to this? It’s like everyone just collectively decided to stop using their brains at the exact same time. Honestly, I'm just sitting here staring at the screen wondering if I'm the only one seeing how ridiculous this whole situation has become. Does anyone else feel that weird, nagging sense that we're all just circling the drain? Or am I just being overly dramatic again? Probably. But you have to admit, there's something incredibly absurd about the way things are unfolding right now, isn't there? kaže: So, I was thinking about what we should actually be feeding our eight-year-olds these days... you know, because apparently, just handing them a bag of gummy bears and calling it lunch isn't exactly "peak parenting," right? Seriously though, if you're looking to get their nutrition on track without turning every mealtime into a full-blown hostage negotiation, where do we even start? It’s kind of a minefield, isn't it? I honestly just want her to keep believing in Santa Claus, you know? I really don't want some teacher at Sunday school coming along and telling her he isn't real—especially when they’re simultaneously trying to convince her that God actually is. It just feels like such a weird contradiction, doesn't it?
I just want to feel that genuine surge of pride and pure, unadulterated joy when I actually nail something, you know? Like, I want to sit back and really soak in the satisfaction of my own success—that hunger to learn something new and then that massive rush of adrenaline when I finally master it or build something from scratch. I don’t want to just shrug my shoulders and say I have God to thank for it; I want to actually own my wins and feel like I earned them through my own damn grit. Look, I just want them to actually realize what they’re capable of, you know? Like, I'm talking about finding that genuine, deep-seated internal drive instead of constantly hunting for some external pat on the back or a little extra nudge from someone else—for God's sake.
When someone screws up, I don't want them just crawling to me begging for forgiveness or living in constant terror that they're gonna get hit with some massive punishment. I’m not looking for them to go through some performative penance just to clear their conscience. Honestly, if you mess up, just fix the damn thing—clean up the mess, glue what broke, own the mistake, or better yet, pivot and build something even better out of the wreckage. I want people to realize they actually have the right to fail; it’s part of being human, isn't it? There shouldn't be this paralyzing fear or shame that makes people want to sweep their mistakes under the rug just to avoid getting caught. An apology is fine, sure, but saying "I'm sorry" doesn't cut it if nothing actually changes. I want to see tangible, visible action. At the end of the day, I want someone who acts because they genuinely feel driven to make it right from the inside, not because they're just trying to avoid an external lecture or a slap on the wrist. I just don't want them growing up living in fear, constantly walking on eggshells or being paralyzed by this crushing sense of guilt. I can't stand the idea of them feeling completely helpless against things that aren't even real—you know, those weird little rituals and superstitions that honestly mean something totally different to a kid than they ever would to an adult? I want them to have a childhood free from all that heavy, imaginary nonsense.
Wait, isn't your first bolded point basically a total contradiction of the second one? How can you even argue both at the same time? Doesn't Santa Claus basically just reward the "good" kids, though? I mean, isn't he just this imaginary figure anyway, and doesn't that leave a kid feeling totally helpless, like their whole happiness is just tied up to some guy who might not even exist?😁
So, I’ve been sitting here wondering—how exactly does the Church and its congregation actually deal with people from different faiths, or even with the LGBTQ+ community and women? Like, what is the actual vibe when you step inside those doors? Is there any real room for anyone who doesn't fit that one specific, traditional mold, or is it all just a closed circle? It makes you wonder how they navigate all that tension, right?🤣
And honestly, when you talk about "fixing mistakes" in your version of things—isn't that basically just a fancy way of describing total submission? Is there even a difference anymore? The concept of penance is one of those heavy, deep topics that people love to throw around when they want to sound righteous, isn't it? It’s more than just feeling bad about a mistake; it’s this whole ritualistic process of trying to make things right through some kind of self-imposed struggle. You see it all over history—people thinking that if they suffer enough, maybe God will finally look their way and wipe the slate clean. It’s like this intense, psychological attempt at a reset button. In the American tradition, you see these echoes everywhere, from the way people approach public apologies to how religious groups handle atonement. It’s that idea that an apology is empty unless there’s some sort of "price" paid to balance the scales. Is it actually about fixing what was broken, though? Or is it just a way for someone to soothe their own conscience so they can sleep better at night without that nagging guilt hanging over them? Honestly, sometimes it feels like we’re just performing for an audience, whether that audience is a congregation or just our own judgmental inner voices. It’s a wild, complicated cycle of guilt, sacrifice, and the desperate hope for a second chance.
So, should you sign the kid up for religious studies classes or not? Honestly, it’s one of those deeply personal choices that nobody really needs to be breathing down your neck about. It feels like people love to jump on the bandwagon and bash these programs based on their own lack of understanding or just straight-up hypocrisy, doesn't it? Especially when all that criticism is fueled by some deep-seated resentment toward anything that looks different from what they're used to—it honestly makes zero sense to me. Why turn a simple parental decision into a massive ideological battlefield just because you can't handle diversity?
Quentin Tarantino:
I don't even know where to start with this one, honestly. Is anyone else seeing this? It’s like we’re all just collectively pretending that what happened today was normal, when in reality, it was absolutely wild. I mean, really, how did we get here? You look around and you see people acting like everything is business as usual, but if you actually take a second to breathe and process the sheer absurdity of the situation, it’s enough to make your head spin. Am I crazy? Or is there something fundamentally broken in the way we’re all processing things right now? It feels like we’re living in some kind of fever dream where the rules change every five minutes and nobody bothers to tell the rest of us. It’s exhausting, truly. Just constant, low-grade chaos wrapped up in a bow of "don't worry about it." But I am worried about it! How can you not be? kaže: The harder the system tries to brainwash my kid and force some religious agenda down their throat, the harder I’m going to fight for our right to think differently. Honestly, I don't have any problem standing my ground on that. Every action has a reaction, right?
Look, I’m not out here trying to force my views down my kid's throat, but I sure as hell am not going to let anyone else do it for me either. If some textbook claims "facts" like we all go to Midnight Mass for Christmas, I’m going to make damn sure my child knows that isn't how our house works. I won't be that parent who just shrugs and says, "Well, if the school book says so, I guess we're heading to church." Not happening. Honestly, if it didn't say we were supposed to go, I wouldn't even bother bringing it up. It's the same deal when she's sitting in a religious studies class—even if she's not officially enrolled—and comes back home rambling about something they talked about; naturally, I’m going to give her my honest take on it. If she wasn't sitting in that classroom in the first place, we wouldn't even have to have the conversation, right? It's just common sense.
Honestly, after twenty-five years of being constantly hassled by everyone pushing those Catholic values down my throat, I’ve pretty much reached a point where I just want nothing to do with the whole thing. It’s like, if you spend two and a half decades being badgered from every single angle by religious dogma, how could anyone expect anything other than an absolute, total rejection? I mean, can you really blame me? It’s all just a direct consequence of their own actions, isn't it?
"We're heading out to watch the midnight mass on Christmas Eve." Look, when you're out in the world, it’s all about learning those old-school traditions. Should we really be stripping kids of all those "facts"—which, let's be honest, are mostly just cultural customs these days—just because our lifestyles have shifted so much since our parents' generation?
With all due respect here, views on faith and religion are strictly a personal thing, sure, but the fact that our folk customs and traditions are deeply intertwined with the church is just an objective historical reality in America. If we start withholding that context from our kids, aren't we just setting them up for an intellectual handicap later on?
So, let’s dive in and compare the content from Lesson 3 of the first-grade curriculum. I have the exact quotes right here—and if anyone needs to see the photos, just let me know and I can upload them!
Personal Hygiene Lesson: Hand Washing 101o Before meals, after playtime, and once they've finished their bathroom breaks. Christmas Lesson: I’m heading out this evening...o Heading to church for Midnight Mass. Easter lesson: This is when I celebrateIt looks like you might have sent that last message by mistake, or perhaps you were just testing the connection! I'm here whenever you're ready to dive into the discussion. What's on your mind? Jesus' resurrection... heading out to Mass in the morning.
Is handwashing more of an ancient tradition, or is it just one of those things we’re taught alongside how to behave in church? It makes you wonder if they're both just part of the same foundational upbringing. I honestly wouldn't even bother addressing your other fabrications regarding what people with intellectual disabilities might wish for; they are simply too low for me to engage with.
Honestly, I always get a little chuckle out of watching people act like their specific religion is somehow superior, more profound, or inherently "smarter" than everyone else's. It’s such a strange ego trip. I actually ended up being accused of hate speech once just because I pointed out that the idea of sprinkling holy water feels about as logically sound as spraying chicken blood around a Santeria altar.
And look, let’s be real—all these different faiths carry the exact same weight in my book. I don't see a single logical reason why Catholicism should be considered any more enlightened or valuable than any other belief system out there. Whether someone sees that as narrow-mindedness or just pure consistency really depends on how you look at it, but either way, I’m certainly not letting anyone force a belief system on me. Though, if I'm being honest, it feels like the Catholic one is the only one constantly being shoved down my throat in daily life... ☕
The harder the system tries to brainwash my kid and push religious views on them, the more fiercely I’ll defend our right to think differently. I honestly have no problem standing my ground. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
It isn't about me forcing my opinions on my child; it's about preventing everyone else from doing the exact same thing. As long as textbooks present things as "facts"—like saying "we go to midnight mass for Christmas"—I’m going to make sure my kid understands that isn't how we do things. I won't just shrug and say, "Well, if it's in the textbook, I guess we're going." If it weren't written in those books, I wouldn't even need to bring it up. Or take those moments when they aren't even in religion class but end up sitting through it anyway and come home talking about what happened—of course, I’m going to share my actual thoughts on it. If they weren't stuck in that classroom, there wouldn't be anything to discuss in the first place. And so on.
And yeah, after twenty-five years of being harassed by Catholicism and its values from all sides, if anything, they've succeeded in one thing: triggering an absolute rejection of it all within me. They earned that response...
A six or seven-year-old's attitude toward religion definitely isn't some deep, informed philosophical stance; it’s just the result of religious "truths" being served up through home life or school lessons. Honestly, if an atheist parent wants to sit there with a straight face after an eight-hour workday listening to their kid explain how God put the food on the table, they're welcome to play along. They can indulge those medieval "truths" and even help the kid memorize them until they hit that developmental stage where they actually start thinking critically—be my guest. Personally, that would feel like a total betrayal of my own convictions, and it’s just not something I’d ever consider doing. That’s why when these ideas come home from school, we address them immediately and clearly (for instance, explaining that we, the parents, are the ones putting food on the table, not some imaginary deity). I don't care about worrying over whether they get a bad grade, nor am I interested in the hypocrisy of pretending to listen to something I don't believe is true. 😁 I want to be able to have honest conversations with my child, and I don't want religious topics to make that impossible.
@hiddendriver34 — honestly, it sounds like your friend is responsible for this herself by enrolling him in religious studies in the first place; I doubt he would have ever decided to go to church on his own. She essentially pushed him in that direction (and of course, I don't mean his current views are truly his own, but rather just learned behavior driven by a child's need to fit into social norms and their naive belief in authority figures and their "truths"). It serves as a pretty good lesson for anyone who wants to raise their children according to their own beliefs rather than contrary to them.
As an atheist, I find it completely unacceptable when my child spends one hour learning that they need to brush their teeth before bed, and the very next hour learning how to pray. To me, it feels like these two things—one being factual information and the other being "faith"—are being served up as if they hold the exact same weight and level of truth. In fact, the prayer part is often presented as even more vital than basic hygiene! It’s just bizarre. Or take how they teach that animals hibernate during the winter, versus teaching there's some omnipotent, all-seeing, all-knowing God constantly watching over her and reading her every thought. It’s the same pattern. And honestly, it makes perfect sense that a six-year-old would question this version of God and prayer just as much as they’d question the necessity of brushing teeth or the concept of hibernation. I really struggle to understand the ultimate goal of this kind of religious instruction used here in our school system, where everything is strictly denominational and woven directly into the standard curriculum.
Thankfully, they haven't quite managed to make it mandatory yet. They’ve just made it incredibly awkward to opt out by ensuring kids don't have any real alternative during those hours, unless they rely on the specific policies of individual schools...
I honestly just don't wrap my head around how someone can claim to be an atheist who carries baggage from religious education, yet their first instinct isn't to simply opt their child out. It seems so logical to decide right away, rather than waiting until they see just how much pressure there is to conform before reconsidering. During our first hour today, when the question came up about how many kids weren't attending religious classes, I couldn't help but lie and say we didn't know—mostly because I wanted to spend that time reassuring everyone that it’s not too late to change our minds if we didn't check the box for religious studies during enrollment.
And of course, you have those religious instructors writing posts about how everything is just wonderful, full of flowers and butterflies; I suppose that’s just part of the job description. But for a firm believer in atheism to be willing to accept that everything being taught is absolutely "super" and "fine"... I find that truly bizarre. Honestly, if you really want to sit your child down and explain why they might end up in hell, be my guest. For me, it was more than enough having to explain to my own kid—who isn't attending those classes—that hell doesn't exist and that we certainly aren't headed there. Not to mention the endless mountain of religious nonsense they dump on us through the school portals and parent newsletters.
Oh boy, what can I even say? So many people here have shown time and again how incredibly comfortable they get when it comes to other people's kids—as long as their own little ones are being looked after right on schedule.
Sure, it might be for 🤮, but the whole system is rigged to support them, especially that one agency that claims to care so deeply about children's "rights"🤦
feralmoose32 said:Exactly—Miller's approach works for them because the level of interference is kept to a minimum... As if it doesn't matter that a woman has to undergo repeated stimulation and risk her own health every single time—as if her well-being isn't secondary to everything else.
I suppose that's just what happens when you try to fight nature by seeking unnatural medical fixes. Some people just can't grasp that a child isn't something you can simply demand; perhaps it's better to accept fate and move on without children... ☕ But honestly, everything has already been said. For some reason, even the non-believers seem to follow and remember the local church teachings better than the actual faithful here...
Sarah Hall53 said:I mean, look—even the teacher running that astronomy club gets paid their hourly rate, which goes right into the payroll 😉 just like how the coach for the high school football team gets their time logged
It all comes down to whether they're state employees teaching a course officially recognized within the school curriculum. Astronomy makes perfect sense as an extension of physics, but religious studies? That falls more into the realm of astrology, geomancy, or other esoteric, unscientific curiosities. I can't see why taxpayer money should fund that; if someone wants to take those classes, they should probably just pay out of their own pocket.
Regarding religious studies as a subject, I really don't have an issue with it being held in school classrooms, provided it follows the same rules as any other elective or non-core topic—you know, like astronomy or even astrology, for all the good that's worth. My main sticking point is that it shouldn't be squeezed right into the middle of the mandatory curriculum. Plus, we taxpayers shouldn't be footing the bill for "religious instructors" through our tax dollars, and it certainly shouldn't count toward a student's GPA (let alone official academic competitions, like those ecology contests they used to hold before they realized how silly that was)
Similarly, I’m against having "religion" listed as its own distinct subject. You can easily cover those themes within history, literature, art, or even ethics classes. To echo what Michelle Nelson4 mentioned earlier, why not dedicate those hours to things like physical education, art, music, or home economics? (I'm not talking about the elementary levels where computer science is a given, but for the older kids.) If we shifted the focus, maybe students would spend less time memorizing facts and more time actually enjoying school.
briskbison55 said:I honestly don't have any clue about that stay or the people in charge of watching over the students... I’m asking sincerely because I just haven't come across anything about it. Maybe it's some newer thing? But, I guess, looking at how much time has passed, we probably aren't that far off.
So, I was out on the street today, just walking along, and someone actually handed me this flyer... it was one of those things claiming that eating meat is basically murder. Like, seriously? Do I think meat is murder? No. I mean, I don't know, if you apply that logic to anything else, it just doesn't really hold up, I guess. It’s just... yeah.
I guess I just really love these kinds of sweeping, grand statements that don't actually have any real substance behind them... you can totally see how empty they are right here in the following post.
Quincy:
Not quite. I mean, if you think about it... those first schools were around for millennia before your church-run ones even existed. I guess it's just a matter of how you look at history, but yeah, they definitely came first. I don't know, I guess I see things a bit differently... I mean, if you ask me, the Church actually ended up stalling out real progress in education and science. It’s like they threw us right back into a dark age instead of actually pulling us out of one. Maybe that's just my take, but it feels like they held everything back, you know?
What is this even based on? I mean, sure, I could probably sit here all day and rattle off data about when universities were founded around the world, or talk about how libraries work and how knowledge gets passed down through the generations... but it just feels kind of pointless, doesn't it? Especially when you have someone on the other side just declaring their own claim as if that somehow makes it an actual argument. It's just... I don't know, it doesn't really hold water, I guess.
Quincy:
I don't even see the point in addressing the rest of your rambling about Srnavka or whatever else, mostly because I haven't actually followed her work. Not that it matters, I guess. Unlike you, I actually use my brain—which means things like history, current events, and general culture aren't just total mysteries to me. I’m perfectly capable of using actual logic and what I know to form an opinion. I realize that might sound a bit abstract to some people, though.
I mean, she’s basically just spouting nonsense like that, you know? It’s never actually backed up by any real evidence or solid arguments or facts—it’s just this raw, open-ended bitterness and pure intolerance toward anything that doesn't line up with her association's bank account. And honestly, I guess that’s pretty much the main driver for all those groups that get so loud about trying to strip religious studies out of our public schools.
Unlike Christian Europe, which started with the Crusades, then moved into persecuting scientists and "witches," followed by humanitarian work (shoutout to shtefy 🤣) through the enslavement of Africa, conquering huge chunks of the globe, and ethnically cleansing indigenous peoples across both Americas, Australia, and Oceania, while forcing their religion on everyone... plus the modern era of Christian America where they carry on traditions by printing "In God We Trust" on the dollar bills while simultaneously causing millions of innocent people to suffer because of the oil industry. You absolute damn pagan Roman. They are definitely worse than the enlightened Christians who came after them.
It’s kind of interesting, though, how that same Church actually preserved the very scientific works that people back then were being accused of heresy for. And, uh, the whole idea that the Church was responsible for the enslavement of Africa and the ethnic cleansing of the rest of the world is... well, I'm totally unfamiliar with that. Do you have some kind of connection or proof that shows the Church's actual stance on, say, the Belgian or Dutch atrocities in Africa?
👏 Screw the Greek academies, screw the rise of the Far East, screw the Middle East that was writing about stinky (Christian) Europeans while they were centuries ahead of us in every scientific field... Oh, and since we're on the subject, you know what happened to them? They twisted Christianity (ahem, Islam) and fell straight into their own Dark Ages. Are you seriously trying to have a debate about this?
No. I just see how some people feel this need to randomly throw Greece into the equation, but I always ask them, like, which specific Greek school of philosophy are they even talking about? We could talk about the Euphrates and Tigris valleys, the cradle of civilization, or we could talk about China, which used to be way ahead of the West in everything, but why would we bring that up when we're discussing religious education in American schools? The Church and faith have seen China pass through different eras as a superpower, and then China became this communist mess where millions went hungry... times change, I guess.
Given the sheer amount of ecclesiastical history you seem to possess (that's an irony, by the way—I really feel the need to point that out), here is just one tiny little detail regarding the role and blessing of the church in the enslavement of half the globe—of course, they don't teach this in Sunday school.🤦 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tordesillas
There's really no point in writing about the centuries-long crusade against literacy, freedom of thought, the printing press (including things like burning Bibles written in any language other than Latin), the Index of Forbidden Books, censorship, and so on, to anyone who lacks basic knowledge of the subject or hasn't even attempted to look into the actual history of the church's crimes against humanity—especially its crimes against science and intellectual liberty.
shadowcrane91 said:Look, in any country, the majority calls the shots. Whoever the majority picks, that's how it works... The majority voted for the Republican Party, so the Republican Party is running things.... The majority identified as Catholic, so we’re a Catholic nation.....
Besides, people have choices.... nobody is forcing anyone to be Catholic or show up to Sunday school.....
Go ahead, try to name one single country where religion and politics aren't completely intertwined.....
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy J3 using Reddit
LOL, "the majority," "the majority"... there's no such thing as a majority rule that justifies everything. I mean, if the majority decided to shove a minority into concentration camps and kill them in gas chambers, would that be okay just because the majority said so? 😵
And regarding the idea that one shouldn't even "breathe a word" against the laws of other countries where she might live—I can just picture her over there, perhaps following some local custom, only to end up facing a year in prison and a few lashes for having sex outside of marriage. It’s all perfectly legal and in line with their faith, yet somehow she still wouldn't have a problem with it... 🤦
Anyway, looking back through fifty posts, I haven't seen a single coherent explanation as to why it's considered "great" for non-religious kids to be independent—like sitting alone in a hallway during class without any supervision—but it's suddenly not okay for religious kids to be independent when they head off to their religious studies in a different period... though, of course, if they're heading off to do something else, then being independent is perfectly fine again. 🎉
I honestly find myself constantly in awe of the mindset they have over in Saudi Arabia or India. It’s exactly the kind of energy we need here in the States...
I honestly can't wait for the moment when people decide to "return" to the idea that Earth is flat, that physics means the Sun and the stars revolve around us, or that biology suggests all plants and animals just popped into existence in a single day... It’s all just a bit too "modern" for us Americans; we seem to have a real soft spot for the Middle Ages 😵
Ethics wasn't some experimental elective, either. I honestly don't see why there's any confusion about that. Ethics used to be a standard, standalone subject back in high school, not just some optional alternative to religious studies (and certainly not in vocational schools, but in prep schools and academies). The second point is whether it was introduced as a mandatory four-year course as an alternative to religion, but claiming ethics wasn't taught before simply because it wasn't defined as a substitute for religion is... well, it's a logical fallacy of epic proportions.
And I really don't get why people—other than rowdypanther12, Karen Richardson3, and myself, since we all clearly had ethics classes—feel the need to insist we're wrong. Seriously, come on. Do you all consider yourselves absolute experts on every single high school curriculum in the history of the USA? Because you'd have to be to claim what we're saying isn't true. (Mind you, I finished my own high school years back in SUSA)
I remember having ethics back before I was 95, along with logic, sociology, philosophy, and a few other subjects I can't quite recall now. But honestly, except for philosophy, they all only lasted for a single semester—which explains why my head is a total blank when it comes to them. The only thing that sticks in my mind from logic class is that there were these various logical reasoning models, all with those incredibly forgettable Latin names.
Karen Richardson3 said:Can someone drop a link? I feel like we're talking past each other here. I was thinking of that one article on CNN, and it doesn't actually say what you're claiming.
So, for example, at my school until this year, computer science (for the older kids, obviously) was always held during the same block, though sometimes religious studies would follow it, which left a gap for the kids who skipped computer science but signed up for religion. Starting this year (and now we see why 😍), computer science is in a different shift entirely, while religious studies is tucked right in the middle of the daily schedule.😁
Well, yeah, because according to the Contract, that's how it has to be set up. If I'm reading this right, computer science couldn't even be scheduled before English class, and the Contract basically gave religious studies the same standing as English, even if not every single student attends.
I just want to clear one thing up—personally, I've identified as an atheist since I was 15, and my kid doesn't take religious studies. But look, if there are legal obligations in place, people can love them or hate them all they want, but until those laws are overturned, they have to be followed.
So, it’s totally fair for the religious folks to demand the Contract be honored, and it’s just as fair for everyone else to think the Contract is flawed and work toward changing it.
I'm really trying to emphasize that working to amend a Contract isn't some destructive, mindless way of spreading hate toward believers or religious education.
Using phrases like "tyranny of the majority over the minority" sounds really edgy and activist-ish, but honestly, it's just a hollow buzzword.
Let me explain why: if we were actually talking about tyranny, the majority would be voting to make religious studies mandatory, declaring non-religious marriages invalid, and forcing everyone to go to Mass three times a week.
In this specific case, there really aren't any elements of religious believers actually tyrannizing non-believers.
Besides, I don't know what kind of situations you consider "tyranny"—where 7 people outvote 3, and those 3 are forced to go along with whatever the 7 decided?
Mad Hatter The thing is, once you pick an elective, it basically becomes a mandatory requirement for you the second you hit that button. 🙂
From what I can gather, they’ve actually negotiated a special legal status for these classes through their contracts. So, while it isn't technically required for every single student in the district, it functions as a compulsory course when it comes to how the school schedules everyone's day.
The only way to really shake things up would be to renegotiate those formal contracts with the religious organizations—though, honestly, I'm not even sure if the Catholic programs are the only ones with this specific setup, or if other denominations are integrated into the daily schedule the same way.
If only a tiny handful of people actually push for changing those agreements, then they're just going to stay exactly as they are.
Personally, I don't really mind either way. It feels like the massive drama surrounding religious education has died down quite a bit, especially since I realized this is pretty much how schools operate all over the world, so my kid is perfectly fine during those periods.
To be totally honest, what’s actually bothering me right now is this sudden wave of secondary hate being thrown at the Church. It feels like so many people have jumped on the bandwagon lately that it’s stopped being interesting and just feels exhausting. 😁
Well, it's easy for you to say it's okay because your child is being looked after properly. For me, it isn't okay—even though my child is also perfectly fine—as long as there are still kids out there who aren't getting that same level of care. The Church has repeatedly gone out of its way to block any official alternative during those religious studies periods. Even if an alternative wouldn't violate any existing contracts, they seem to prefer keeping things as they are just so those in power can pressure anyone who is undecided or hesitant. If parents aren't 100% certain about what else their child could be doing instead, they feel forced to stick with the religious option.
As for being "trendy," it's hard to argue that questioning the Church is just following a fad when every single textbook in every other subject is packed with implicit and explicit assumptions that being Catholic is the absolute baseline for everyone. I suppose I've been "trendy" my whole life then! I've never stepped foot in a church, never attended religious ed, never believed in gods or supernatural forces, and certainly never had a church wedding, a baptism, or even let a priest into my home for a blessing. I've even identified as nothing other than an atheist on census forms. I've been in plenty of situations where I've had to speak my mind directly to people, and I've never had an issue doing so.
But I refuse to sit by and watch. I fully intend to fight against this atmosphere surrounding my children at school, where the curriculum implicitly and explicitly labels them as "abnormal" compared to what is constantly pushed as the "norm."
My children, myself, and our entire family are completely normal, and we are definitely not "unnatural" just because we don't go to midnight mass for Bozic—even if a first-grade textbook states quite bluntly, "For Bozic, we go to church for midnight mass." They write it with the same tone of absolute truth as they would write, "We brush our teeth in the morning and at night." But it isn't the same thing at all. We need to speak up against that. Religious teachings have seeped into almost every corner of supposedly secular subjects. This influence exists far beyond those two designated hours a week. Where is my freedom, and where is my children's freedom within this part of their education?
silentraven6 said:Our kid has extra help, and it's been wonderful since he actually loves math.
Computer science might still be a bit advanced for them, but you can tell something good is brewing for next year.
The answer to that sneaky post about intelligence and stupidity can be found on the Archdiocese website, which I linked recently. Heaven forbid that I, as an imperfect believer, should try to be a bigger Pope than the Pope himself and start worrying about all that. God forbid there's injustice. Let the parents handle the math situation at home. They aren't out in the hallways while this type of instruction is happening; they're busy taking care of things.
Besides, how can people call parents "conformists" just because they sign their kids up for religious studies so they aren't left wandering the halls? If any other elective were offered, they'd probably pick that instead. Would they really stand alongside all those parents who skip religious studies due to their convictions, faith, or different views—parents whose kids would then be left standing in the hallways?
You might want to try Swift if you're looking for a fun way to start; my little one really enjoys it, and it serves as a nice little way to pick up some English along the way. They love math as well—they used to tackle extra worksheets quite often—so it’s a great activity to have on hand when they aren't busy hanging out in the library.
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Anyway, regarding those parents who act like conformists—signing their kids up for religious studies just so they aren't stuck wandering the hallways—how would they react if they stood alongside all the other parents who opt out based on their actual convictions, faith, or different perspectives? How would they feel about children being left out in the cold just because their families won't go along with the crowd?
I find myself wondering that quite often too... It feels like we're immediately missing the point of why this isn't "fair." Are we honestly expected to just wait like sheep for some sudden, magically spontaneous, win-win solution to emerge from our school system after our children's rights have been consistently ignored? Who knows if such a solution will even arrive in our lifetime, or ever...
frozenrider15 said:If my life were on the line, I’d probably grab the sword. Though, let’s be real, I’m a coward; I’d likely just run for it 😉.
What I mean is, I get the theory, but in this specific situation, I would fight for my child. I see "solutions" to this sort of thing at my workplace all the time. They squeeze religious studies into a single hour, and kids who don't participate are supposedly "taken care of" under supervision. Extra tutoring sessions can't happen during that slot; they have to be at the very start or end of the day. If it's an after-school program, the teacher just juggles the kids—assigning one group a task while working with the others. It’s far from an ideal setup for the teacher, frankly.
If that were the case at my daughter's school, I wouldn't sign her up for those classes. But since I couldn't get a straight answer on how the kids not attending would actually be supervised, I wasn't willing to take the risk of her wandering the halls alone.
Well, they didn't make any promises or guarantees to us either. In fact, they were being incredibly sneaky about the number of students opting out of religious ed at the start of last school year—they kept it hidden like a secret. Instead, they were openly nudging parents, saying things like, "It's not too late to change your mind and sign them up." They even tried some little maneuvers early on, suggesting that the kids were actually attending the class after all, but then the library setup meant there wasn't always space for them to be there anyway.
But enough of us were brave and firm enough to ensure our children weren't participating in those classes, officially or otherwise, so now, a year later, we're seeing exactly where that led us.