—and he seriously had to work out some kind of system with me, because if someone tells me "you can't," my only possible response is basically: "oh yeah? You want to go? I can take you on once, twice, and I'll even make sure to grab a selfie while I'm at it!" 🤣
Michelle Nelson4 said:She hasn't made up her mind yet, and thankfully, we've still got plenty of time. Right now, whenever she mentions a school, I pull up Google maps and show her exactly how long the commute would take. 😁 Because of that, our family is leaning heavily toward schools in the National Geographic area. A huge plus is that they aren't those old, crumbling buildings built back in the day—they actually have modern earthquake safety standards and decent gyms. Plus, it would be super convenient for my morning commute to drop her off nearby, which might let her sleep in an extra half hour or so. I try not to meddle too much in which specific track she chooses. I just know she wants a solid college prep curriculum, and honestly, that’s enough for me to ensure she’s ready for the SATs. Beyond that, I don't need to worry about it... I'm not stressing over the test scores themselves.
My biggest fear is that she gets distracted by something like a specialized sports academy out in the middle of nowhere, involving hours of driving every single day. I haven't heard anything good about places like that.
Back in eighth grade, I was absolutely dead set on going to this specialized language academy... except it wasn't even in my town, it was in this other, distant city that was a total nightmare to get to. 28 miles First, it was a thirty-minute trek on foot just to reach the station, then you had to deal with a forty-minute bus or train ride. My dad basically told me, "Sure, you can go, but first you're going to help me out with some stuff." He ended up signing me up for these winter workshops at a school right near the language academy—just to give me a taste of what serious commuting actually feels like. I finished all four days of the workshop, but honestly? I called it quits on the language academy by the second day. 🤣
Man, I remember seeing this exact same thing happening at the high school where I worked about 12 or 13 years ago—it was such a headache. Basically, you had these parents who wanted their kids to be in the German language tracks, but then they’d go and pull their kids out and transfer them to the neighboring district just to game the system. So, instead of having two English classes and two German classes, the school would end up with two English and one German, leaving them one class short. Then they'd try to fix it by enrolling three English tracks and one German track, but those same parents would just jump ship again... poof! Suddenly you have four English classes and not a single soul left looking for a German lesson.
Educators really lose their minds the second they get their hands on a keyboard. 🙂 The P26 (I can’t even remember the full title—honestly, calling it that is a joke since it was only 26 words long) which hiddendriver34 tried to push through as a penalty for those protests over school safety measures—you know, the one that basically called for crucifying teachers just because they have a kid with behavioral issues in their class? It literally forced them to spend twenty-four hours a day buried in paperwork for that one student instead of actually teaching. Well, that thing somehow pulled more comments during the public hearing than the whole debate about debt collections. And of course, the results of that public hearing were NEVER released... so P26 just quietly died off and was forgotten.
Honestly, half-baked comments have managed to bury several rulebooks—or at least their various revisions—before they even had a chance. It’s gotten to the point where some rules just quietly die off without ever actually going into effect, while others get scrubbed entirely or tossed in out of nowhere. I guess it really pays to weigh in on everything, just to make sure things don't drift too far off course.
We've been arguing about this for ten years now. The answer? It’s those Vatican agreements—period. And honestly, if you don't speak the language, you're just out of luck.
And look, it’s not like German is being forced on everyone in the second tier just because... well, it shouldn't be. The real issue is that every single language should be given equal footing in our schools, whether they're electives or core requirements. But instead, we just cater to whatever parents want or follow their know-it-all attitudes.
Susan James said:I have a relative who’s a linguist. She doesn't live in the States anymore, but while she did, she taught at various schools. It's true that kids would pick a language to learn, but then they’d just quit—either because the pace was too slow (which drags down the whole class) or because the teacher just wasn't great (and let's be real, some aren't). By 7th or 8th grade, a huge number of students would drop German. At the same time, they started pushing language learning as early as 1st grade, which is a recipe for disaster. Or maybe it's just a way to funnel people into private institutions like the Goethe Institute or Berlitz. Those are fine for learning, but we aren't talking about free, accessible second language education for everyone here.
I'm with Michelle Nelson4 on this. We should allow proficiency testing during enrollment, regardless of where they learned it, provided the school actually has the capacity to offer continued language instruction. (I feel the same way about computer science, too. A lot of kids don't take it as an elective in 5th or 7th grade because they can find better programs elsewhere, even though it's essential for getting into technical high schools or specialized academies.)
And if we actually want to keep elective languages alive in schools, we need to work on making the classes smaller. We should give students who are moving faster an extra hour of instruction. Just thinking out loud here, but that third weekly period would be much better spent on conversation practice for advanced students rather than sitting through the same basic lessons with three kids who haven't grasped the fundamentals after five or six years...
On the other hand—and I'm just thinking back here—you used to see this massive wave of kids dropping out during 7th and 8th grade. It was pretty much a stampede at that point, mostly because those two years were basically seen as the final stretch before everyone started looking toward high school enrollment. 😉 So, I ended up dropping German from my schedule—mostly just to claw back some extra breathing room so I can actually focus on pulling my grades up in physics and chemistry. Gotta stay on top of those, you know? And well... let's not forget that third factor hanging over everything. It’s kind of like how things used to work back in those smaller school districts—you know, where they could actually pull off having German classes in the same shift from fourth through sixth grade, but then once you hit seventh, everything would just flip and you'd be moved to the opposite shift. It was always such a weird transition, honestly.
I'm with Michelle Nelson4 on this one—it really needs to happen. I was just thinking—we really should find a way to make knowledge testing actually doable. It’s one of those things that sounds great in theory, but when you actually try to set it up, it gets complicated fast. We need to make sure it's accessible and actually works for everyone. It doesn't matter where they went to school—everyone gets the same shot at enrollment. I honestly feel the same way about computer science—it’s kind of a bummer how people look at it lately. It seems like back in the day, kids were jumping at the chance to take it as an elective, but now? Even moving from fifth grade into seventh, so many students are skipping over it because they figure they can find better opportunities elsewhere. It’s a shame, really, especially since it's such a foundational piece if you're actually planning to get into a specialized technical high school or a rigorous math academy later on. You really need that groundwork if you want to make those specific tracks.
Most dual-language programs have always handled things this way—I mean, if you’re looking to pick up a language that isn't already officially listed on your transcript, they usually just require you to sit for a placement test. It's pretty standard practice.
Look, if we actually want to keep foreign language programs alive in our schools, we’ve got to be smarter about how we structure them. We should probably be looking at smaller class sizes—that’s just common sense. And honestly? For the kids who are actually picking things up quickly, we ought to give them an extra hour or something. I know, I'm just rambling here, but think about it—instead of wasting that third period every week making everyone stare at the same textbook while three kids struggle through the basics they haven't grasped in five or six years, why not use that time for something better? Like actual conversation practice for the students who are ready for it. It just feels like a waste of potential otherwise.
Wait, do you honestly think we’re constantly begging for smaller class sizes just because we like complaining? It's not that... I mean, it's not like we actually enjoy having twenty-eight kids from second or third grade crammed into a single classroom—it's practically a mosh pit at this point.
And honestly, that third hour you mentioned—I feel like we should probably be getting that one for free, right? I mean, between everything else, it feels like we aren't even getting paid enough to cover the basics, let alone everything else we deal with... it's just one of those things, really. ☕ Plus, honestly... the second something isn't strictly mandatory—like, the moment it’s actually off the schedule—you’ll suddenly have two kids appearing out of nowhere. Or three, if you’re having one of those lucky days.
Michelle Nelson4 said:I honestly feel like there’s some serious bias creeping in here. Now they’re pushing for an extra two points just because it fits their specific narrative—claiming "it would be fair." But let me tell you, it wouldn't be fair at all. Not even a little bit. The only way to make this truly equitable is through standardized testing—one uniform exam for everyone. We should have three mandatory subjects, much like the SATs or those college entrance exams, with the rest being purely elective based on student interest. And of course, meeting the prerequisite for advanced placement in things like computer science or a foreign language shouldn't depend on whether someone happened to sit in a specific classroom during high school; it should be about actual proficiency and desire. It’s the same logic we use elsewhere—just as elementary school language classes aren't a guarantee for high school placement, it should all come down to skill level. If we’re aiming for a true meritocracy, decisions should be based strictly on knowledge and nothing else.
Back in the day, when we had second languages or computer science scheduled during different periods in fifth and sixth grade, having those mandatory courses didn't create any imbalance. In fact, if anything, some students actually stuck with their German studies for another two years precisely because they weren't stuck dealing with those heavy two-period blocks in an opposing schedule; they only had one session a week instead.
I mean, it really depends on the school, you know? I know plenty of places where the elective language was scheduled in the same shift as everything else—they’d rotate it, like, in Week A, computer science was on the opposite shift while the language stayed put, then in Week B, they swapped. But then, once computer science became mandatory... bam, Michael, you're out! You're moved to the opposite shift. They banned us from mixing groups, and suddenly you're either stuck in the other shift or forced into online classes. It’s no wonder so many kids just dropped out of the electives entirely. Hanlon's razor is honestly the only thing stopping me from believing there's a systematic attempt to wipe out elective foreign languages in America.
We're talking about thousands fewer kids taking elective foreign languages over the last two years—and by the way, I'm not just pulling these numbers out of thin air; the American Association of German Teachers got them officially from the Department of Education.
For kids who struggle with reading and writing, every second language feels like a massive mountain to climb. Honestly, even German—with all its strict rules for how you actually say things—seems way more straightforward than English, which is basically just a chaotic circle of spelling hell.
Susan James said:I know. And if you want credit for a second language, you absolutely have to take the advanced version. Honestly, teaching these languages in schools feels like a waste of time if students just take the beginner levels during middle school—or don't take them at all (which seems to be the case based on what many teachers are saying in the online feedback sessions). Not to mention the situation where someone studies German or French for eight years because it was the choice made back in elementary school, only to take advanced English later. If they don't take the first language they studied, it’s basically just throwing money down the drain. It's an open secret that (at least regarding German, from what I've heard) parents are often nudged toward it at the start of sixth grade, or it's just pushed on kids as a requirement for staying in certain programs. Over the years, the number of classes has actually shrunk because kids either give up or simply don't sign up for the language in high school.
Also, looking at the proposed regulations, it seems like the Department of Education forgot that English isn't everyone's first language (something they also seemed to forget over on YouTube a couple of years ago). Susan James made a great point here:
Regarding foreign language testing, we should clarify it this way: "...English, Mathematics, and the foreign language that students will study as their primary foreign language in High School..." Reasoning: A problem arises if we allow schools to test only the first foreign language students learned in Elementary School, rather than the one they intend to study as their primary foreign language in High School. In some cases, students won't be able to or won't want to continue with the language they started in Elementary School (like French), and instead, they'll choose the language they studied as their *second* foreign language in Elementary School to be their primary one in High School. Therefore, students should be given the choice of which language to test for during admissions—it makes much more sense to test the language they will actually be continuing, rather than strictly sticking to whatever was their first language in Elementary School.
Though, personally, I think it makes sense to test proficiency in both languages if they are being taken at the advanced level. (Latin as well 😬)
I mean, honestly, when is it actually better to start learning German, given how much inflection you have to deal with? There is a massive, night-and-day difference in skill levels between someone who has studied it for five years versus eight. With the way that language works, you pretty much need those seven or eight years just to start putting sentences together on your own if you're going at a standard school pace.—it’s just built into the nature of the language. The gap between five and eight years of studying English is more like subtle nuances—my senior advisor tells me that when she looks at eighth graders, she can barely tell from their textbooks whether they've been learning it for five years or eight. But with German? Man, the difference is incredibly obvious. And it really tells you everything you need to know that kids can pick up English as their primary second language without any trouble after just five years. Just try imagining doing that with German or French—you'd be looking at guaranteed remedial classes.
As for why they aren't signing up for the second language, blame the inflated GPA requirements and the fact that mandatory computer science classes have completely crowded out the regular curriculum ☕ and there you go—blaming the people who don't want to deal with bureaucracy just to appease parents who actually know what's best for their kids.
From what I see in my professional circle, the general consensus is pretty much that this whole system only works for passing high school graduation—because honestly, right now, the goal is just hitting whatever score you need to get into college by any means necessary, regardless of whether you actually learned anything. As an elective foreign language teacher, if you ask me, the focus on overall GPA and computer science (which kids take as an elective in middle school and then as a requirement in high school) is basically killing off interest in second languages.
Regarding those computer science credits, I’m with you, but we should probably only count one credit for 7th and 8th grade since it becomes mandatory later on. For a language, though, giving two extra points would only be fair if they’ve been studying it consistently for all four years from middle school through high school—it just wouldn't be right to give the same weight to someone who only took it as a two-year elective as someone who stuck with it for the full four.
With the classics, they always dump you into both the beginner and the advanced tracks at once—but if you're actually getting credit for learning Latin, you have to be in the advanced class, so I guess that weird inequality kind of evens itself out in the end. ☕ The big issue is that only getting two credits for four years of a second language... honestly, that felt like a total violation of our constitutional rights. ☕
rowdypanther12 said:I wanted to ask, does religion class count toward the GPA for high school?
Regarding second languages, isn't there an advantage to enrolling in a class where the instruction is actually in that language? 🤔
What kind of "benefit" are we even talking about here? Honestly—after spending five years in school—they just end up enrolling in basic introductory courses just to snag an easy passing grade. It’s almost funny, really... though maybe more sad than funny. They breeze through those first two years with flying colors, but then suddenly, by year three, they're stuck in summer school because they didn't realize the workload actually shifted. Like, you can't just coast forever and expect things to stay easy. 😵 ).
You want to hear something truly ironic? If you look back about ten years ago, you could practically count on one hand the number of schools that didn't offer a second foreign language or computer science. Fast forward to today, and those days are long gone—you can basically walk into any school in the country and pick those two electives if you want to. And honestly, it’s about time, too... there aren't even any extra credit points being handed out for kids who spent four years stuck in the late afternoon shift just because they had to grind through an extra subject compared to everyone else.
Karen Richardson3 said:I mean, I’m not really sure what qualifies as a "huge" class these days; back in the day, we had 28 kids in one room, but now they just split them into two groups of 14.
But look, if you're saying it's not true that there should only be three students with IEPs per class, then honestly, I haven't got a clue how they ended up splitting ours specifically—all I know is the version of the story that started circulating among us parents.
First off, we really need to clear up the terminology here: An IEP is an Individualized Education Program—you know, the stuff we do to make sure these kids actually succeed. A 504 plan is an accommodation plan. Those are strictly limited to three students per classroom, regardless of how big the total class size is.
Now, 28 students is basically the absolute maximum number allowed in any standard American classroom. Technically, for every student with a 504 plan, the total headcount in the room should drop by two. So, a class with one 504 student shouldn't exceed 26 kids, two 504s means a max of 24, and three 504s means the class cap hits 21. But with IEPs? They can just cram in as many as they want because they play these little legal games to get around the rules. ☕
Susan James said:Standard tracks are usually noted on the back (unless that changed recently 🤔)
I’m with you on that, though I should add that those specific programs are vetted by the school nurse and the local city office. It's true—without a mental health professional's assessment, this would be nearly impossible to implement, but at the end of the day, someone still has to sign off on the official paperwork.
If we weren't getting sidetracked here, I just hope these geniuses don't try to impose special rules for writing entrance exams. Man, some truly talented Intel students are going to get caught in the crossfire, but someone has to pay the price for this wave of nonsense.
Nope, you can't find it anywhere on the transcript anymore—some genius decided that issuing a transcript that looks different from the standard ones constitutes discrimination.
Karen Richardson3 said:If you're talking about elementary school, I'm pretty sure the standard is three per grade, though in my kid's class, there were actually four. (Just a side note here—one student in that group has a specific diagnosis that makes schooling a bit more complicated, plus their family has some serious pull, so it feels like they're basically being handed high grades through Intel accommodations, which the other kids have been noticing since first grade. The other three kids in that group struggle a bit more academically, and since they don't have that kind of family influence backing them up, their grades are honestly pretty low compared to the others. 😁 )
The reason I say there were four is because it was one of those massive classes where a bunch of rowdy kids were just causing total mayhem. Eventually, having four kids with Intel accommodations became the perfect excuse for the administration to finally split the class into two smaller groups—it’s much easier for them to justify a split by saying "we can't manage this many special needs students at once" rather than just admitting they couldn't handle the chaos. 😁 )
Well, that must have been one massive classroom if they had to split it just because of four students with an IEP. Actually, any class with four students needing special accommodations should be split—but I'm telling you from firsthand experience, they just cold-shoulder the whole thing. Now I'm working in a classroom with four students needing special accommodations and two with an IEP. I'm sitting there during study hall just staring at a wall, honestly losing track of who gets which worksheet, and all this for a measly $3.25 hourly wage. 👋 Man, those four kids, plus a few others in different classes, could easily have their own specialized unit, but I guess this way is just cheaper. ☕
My colleagues over at the local high school tell me the funniest stories—it’s honestly kind of wild. They say the best part is when students who were supposed to use special placement vouchers or priority admissions decide to just play by the rules and compete during the regular enrollment period using their standard GPA. And then? They actually get in. So you end up with three kids enrolled via those special pathways, and then suddenly, three or four more pop up out of nowhere—you don't even realize they're part of the specialized programs until after the first round of exams is already over. 👋 Then there’s the whole situation where you’re stuck in a classroom with six or seven students who have significant learning accommodations 👋 all while dealing with these massive $1.25 increases in student numbers per hour—and don't even get me started on the pay. You only get extra compensation for the priority placements, and even then, it’s capped at the first three because federal regulations won't let them pay us for more than that—so if you hit a fourth, you just don't see a dime for it 👋
Well, that went great then 👍 I honestly think my folks were banking on a certain outcome when they gave me total freedom and stocked up on a whole carton of cigarettes—they probably figured once I realized I hadn't actually provoked the reaction I wanted, I'd just give it up. But man, I’ve always been a high-strung person, and it turns out those smokes were way too relaxing for my own good. It started with just one or two while I was cramming for exams, but before I knew it, I was burning through at least a pack a day for the next ten years 🙈
Man, back in middle school, it felt like every single one of those troublemakers was constantly smoking—you know the type. But then, total shocker: I move up to high school where everyone supposedly applied with a near-perfect GPA—we were talking 4.0s, the absolute definition of nerds, especially back in the day like twenty-five years ago—only to find out that almost half the class had a pack of cigarettes tucked in their bag, just waiting for the bell to ring so they could rush outside for a smoke break. I guess it really just depends on how the story goes.