But hey, if you’re really that determined, you can always just submit a formal request. They'll respect it just the same. Honestly, you could probably just scribble your request on a scrap of paper torn from a kid's notebook—no fancy title or anything—and they’d still take you seriously. 😉 I’ve actually done it myself.
So, look, if you actually want the sacraments—yeah, then you’re looking at mandatory religious ed classes both at school and in church, plus showing up for Mass on a regular basis. But the sacraments themselves aren't strictly required. If checking all those boxes in that first sentence feels like too much work, you can just skip them and forgo the sacraments entirely. It's that simple. Basically, nothing is mandatory here. It all comes down to what people (specifically parents for their kids) decide to do on their own. ☕
Honestly, my college experience was the exact same—just endless mitosis and meiosis lectures where our biology professor basically brainwashed us, and if you didn't nail it, you were stuck in summer school. And let’s be real, unless you went into biology (oops, there wasn't a single person in my class who did!) or med school (there was exactly one person!), none of that ever mattered again in our lives. ☕ Let's just ditch all of it together, along with Judith and those folks. We could even toss out those three-mile-long physics proofs I spent hours memorizing like I was tracing Chinese characters—just rote learning letter by letter without having the slightest clue who was doing what to whom or why. Sound like a plan? ☕
The only thing I’ll say about Judith is that kids are given these works at the wrong time. I remember reading her back at the start of high school and cursing everything under the sun—Judith, Shakespeare, even the classics—because I couldn't get it. I actually had to hunt down a version with a translation guide instead of the original just so I could make sense of a single sentence. And then, through some weird twist of fate, I ended up choosing her as my senior thesis (well, a third of it, technically, but still). I tackled it when I was eighteen, with four years of literature studies finally under my belt. I still keep that little book; I practically vandalized it with highlighters, Post-its, and handwritten footnotes because I was actually soaking in every single word. I finally knew how to appreciate it in a way I definitely didn't two years prior. Now, every once in a while, I’ll pull out specific passages and just sit there, marveling at the sheer mastery of the writing.
The only thing is, according to the district regulations regarding class sizes, you need at least 15 students for an elective course—unless we're talking about religion classes, where they can actually get things moving with even smaller groups ☕ and remember a few years back when the Secretary of Education sent out that memo telling schools to schedule religious studies at the very beginning or end of the day? The bishops jumped up faster than Jack in the Box and started screaming "Vatican treatyyyyyyyy!"
Look, I’m just saying—I really want my elective foreign language class to be its own thing on the schedule, you know? Not some weirdly merged group session where everyone is crammed together. Anyway, James Alvarez2, where are you hiding? Please, just listen to me on this one! Oh, right. I forgot. We don't exactly have those federal treaties in place that would actually make that happen for us. ☕
Kate Cox2 said:I must confess, I find myself utterly perplexed by this entire uproar regarding religious education in our schools, especially since it isn't even mandatory 🤷 . In nearly every corner of the globe, there exists some iteration of religious studies or perhaps a course on world religions. Take Finland, for instance—a nation whose educational model we all strive to emulate—where religious culture is actually a required subject...
I am unsure how things are managed in other states, but in my particular county, I cannot name a single school where religion is part of the standard daily schedule. It is typically slotted at the very beginning or end of the day whenever possible. I realize there are certainly exceptions to this, but my assumption is that administrators do this simply because they lack any other viable solution; often, it is quite impossible to coordinate everything perfectly when many instructors are juggling responsibilities across multiple different schools... Furthermore, I have to say, I fail to grasp this sudden outcry concerning our colleagues in religious education and their salaries. It is hardly such a staggering sum that it would significantly impact the national budget... If the grievance is that these funds are being carved out from our own paychecks—well, surely it is obvious that one cannot satisfy everyone’s every whim. For example, personally, I wouldn't want a single cent of my tax dollars going toward professional football or various interest groups whose activities are entirely opaque. Or, if we are being truly blunt—my taxes shouldn't be funding a professor of French or Greek if my child will never study those subjects, so why bother?..
Every religious instructor I know holds a degree in theology after five years of university. I am aware there are some who specialize in catechesis, but those tend to be older individuals who likely completed their studies during the more turbulent decades of the last century... Nowadays, students graduate with theology degrees, and since these are essentially philosophy and theology faculties, they are qualified to teach ethics and philosophy as well. Apparently, some even step in to cover Latin classes because there is such a frequent shortage of qualified staff... It strikes me that this whole controversy is largely manufactured by the media and persistently fueled by them. I simply cannot understand why, in a democratic country where we supposedly champion tolerance, there is constant sensationalism surrounding a subject that is elective. No one is forcing you to enroll. If certain parents enroll their children simply because a grandmother is praying or because they are worried about what the neighbors might think, then that is an individual issue, not a flaw in the curriculum itself. To my mind, technical drawing or shop class is a far more baffling subject; no one asks me if I want my child to learn it... if only those were electives! Or consider art and music, which in my opinion should either be elective or extracurricular, as not everyone possesses a passion for drawing or singing. But that is merely my perspective... if the media suddenly decided to incessantly attack technical or art classes, I suspect a separate debate would erupt here regarding whether we even need them, where our money is going, and why certain schedules are being manipulated. Still, it is wonderful that in our country, someone actually HAS a job. I would never dream of jeopardizing someone's livelihood just because people are complaining about salaries that are lower than the travel reimbursements provided to members of Congress. In my view, it is an elective choice; whoever wants to go, goes, and whoever doesn't, doesn't. I see absolutely no problem with it... As for those schools where the class falls in the middle of the day and kids are left waiting in the hallways, I realize that can be inconvenient for some. However, from what I can see, the children actually enjoy having a little downtime; they love going outside to play, and sitting with a librarian for an hour isn't exactly a high-stress ordeal. Generally speaking, I believe parents overreact to certain matters, and the media loves to stir the pot because, for some reason, this topic is incredibly profitable for them. My child attends religious education because I want her to, and because we are believers. It is much easier for me if it occurs during regular school hours; otherwise, I wouldn't be able to drive her there due to all our other commitments and her extracurricular activities, and I would truly regret it. Since we are supposed to be a tolerant society (particularly the community in which I live 🙄), then we ought to respect those who make this choice... I want this, I pay my taxes, and I want a trained theologian who has completed pedagogical training to teach my child in a school setting, rather than having her sit in a cold church on a Saturday with a priest who might be brilliant, or might just be some old crank who has no rapport with children...
Good grief, I mean, what are all these debates even revolving around? It feels like the classic tactic: throw the people a crust of bread so they can bicker over nonsense while we do whatever we please in the background.
See, that's funny, because I honestly can't think of a single school where those classes AREN'T part of the regular schedule. And I actually WORK in a school, so you'll have to forgive me for having a bit of an inside scoop through my colleagues—not just in my local district, but pretty much across the state. Actually, at a friend's school, nearly half of her homeroom doesn't even attend the religion class—like, 6 out of 15 kids skip it. And it's the same story for about 6 or 7 kids in the parallel class too. If you ask me, do you really think anyone ever thought to just group them into one religious group and one non-religious group? Oh, man, no! Not a chance! Instead, both classes have their religion lessons right in the middle of the day, while the other half of the class is just wandering the halls. (And by the way, that "brilliant" free period is all fun and games until you end up sharing it with, say, the class bully. Then all that "genius" unsupervised time suddenly feels like a massive mistake ☕ ). Oh, and another thing—do you think anyone has ever considered MERGING those two groups into one single class? You know, the way they would if it were elective Spanish or elective computer science? That’s the part that really bugs me personally. I teach an elective too, but it's for a different grade level. I mean, if we're talking about a small town like Naperville, if you have religion electives and foreign language electives, why is one tucked into the regular schedule without merging classes, while the other is pushed outside of standard hours and requires grouping? It's just... I guess I'll be feeling bitter about this until all electives are treated with the same level of respect.
You’ve also got computer science teachers acting as homeroom advisors—though they usually end up juggling math, tech, or physics on top of everything else—but I have a few colleagues who teach elective German and serve as advisors too, even if not every student in their class actually takes the language. One colleague of mine had this situation where, out of her entire eighth-grade advisory group, only three students ended up choosing German for their electives 😂
Wait, since when did they start offering dual degrees? I thought they actually managed to block those kinds of programs at NYU pasmater, give it twenty years and we'll probably find that only theologians are left working in the school systems 🙂
Honestly, the church could just hire them directly to teach religion through the local parish. I mean, they’re already being paid by the diocese, right? It’s not like the principal or the school district is cutting the checks—they just handle the payroll. The diocese is the one calling the shots on who goes where and what they teach, while principals basically just have to say, "Sure thing, honey," whenever they get assigned a new teacher. But here’s the kicker—neither the teachers nor the church actually wants that, because if they did, the church would have to start paying them out of their own pockets instead.
He’ll probably end up taking ethics with some other class—you know how it goes—since they have the same instructor for religion, so there's no way he can squeeze both into the same period. Back when I was in high school, things were a little different—we actually had two different religion teachers—so they’d run parallel sessions, one with the whole class and another with a smaller group pulled from two different sections, while the ethics teacher would just take everyone from all three tracks at once.
🤦 Look, I’m just pointing out how that religious studies hour for non-religious kids stands apart from the rest of their school day—but hey, feel free to twist my words however you want if it makes you feel better.
I don't really know where to start with this one—it’s kind of a mess in my head—but I just felt like I had to get it out there. It’s funny how some things just hit you out of nowhere, right? Like, you’re just going about your day, maybe grabbing a coffee at Starbucks or something, and suddenly you're thinking about these deep, complicated stuff that you probably shouldn't be worrying about at 10:00 AM. Anyway... it's all just a bit much sometimes. Just a bit much. kaže: I guess I should probably start by saying... well, I don't really know where to begin, honestly—it’s one of those things that feels a bit overwhelming when you actually sit down to type it out—but I figured I’d just jump in and try to share what's on my mind. It’s kind of funny, actually, how these things work—how you just sort of find yourself staring at a blinking cursor for ten minutes before realizing you have something to say—anyway, here goes nothing. I mean, honestly... isn't this just a massive overreaction? It feels like everyone is just totally blowing things way out of proportion—it’s actually kind of wild if you think about it. I mean, honestly—stuff like that probably only happens during the Dark Ages... or maybe just when everyone’s gone back to believing in alchemy and magic instead of actual science.🙄 That’s exactly why it matters so much—you really need to know the specifics. Like, how many kids from class A, B, or C are actually heading off to religion class at any given moment? And you have to account for where everyone is—like if the librarian is tied up, or what the teacher is actually working on right then. It gets so messy. Plus, there's the whole issue of why certain kids aren't getting extra help or tutoring sessions—or why some *are* getting them at that exact time, which honestly feels like it’s just picking favorites and leaving the rest of the class in the dust. It’s all about those little details that make everything feel unfair.🤦 Hey, everyone—just take a breath and relax for a second. Seriously.☕
I mean, honestly—aside from when they’re off at religious studies or whatever—there aren't many times where you see little kids just wandering the hallways for forty-five minutes straight without a single adult keeping an eye on them. It’s one of those things that really sticks in my mind... just sitting there in the hall, totally unsupervised.
I mean, look—take a scenario where your kid is in religion class, right? But the school bully isn't there; they just hang out in the library while the librarian is busy doing her own thing, or they're just loitering in the hallway... I honestly think that’s the kind of stuff you’d actually care about. Or what about that one kid who’s always looking for trouble? If it’s just two or three of them together, there's always that nagging worry that they might pull your kid into whatever mess they're planning. Suddenly, wouldn't you want to know about that too?
cosmiccyclist172 said:Oh, so you disagree with that? Because honestly, I haven’t walked into a single classroom yet where there are more kids opting out of the class than the ones actually sitting through it.
A friend of mine is a teacher for one of those classes. And honestly, they just cram religion right into the middle of the school schedule—it's such a mess. Like, regardless of all the official stuff with the Vatican or whatever, it doesn't change the fact that ten out of eighteen kids are just sitting out in the hallway during that period.
In any typical American high school, you've got the choice between elective ethics classes or religious studies. Honestly, the only people who could actually get in trouble over some teacher’s nonsense would be the principal or maybe the district administration—not the other teachers. As Sarah Hall53 says, even if a kid actually complained about something, there's just no way to prove it. And even if you did manage to prove it, the responsibility wouldn't fall on the staff—it would be on the administrators first. They're the ones who should have stepped in.
The whole thing with teaching assistants is such a mess, too—they all get hired under different circumstances, through different employers, and with totally different contracts. At our school, we actually had assistants coming in from three different sources at the same time. Some were only contracted for 20 hours a week, so they weren't even around during those advisory periods—you know, when they're considered "least needed." Others were tied specifically to a student's heavy course load, and then you had the ones on full 40-hour contracts who were basically with their students all day long—helping them out, waiting with them at the bus stop, chaperoning field trips... basically, regardless of how many actual class hours the student had, those assistants were pulling 7.5-hour days at the school.
It’s impossible to tell how an assistant was assigned, where their funding comes from, or what kind of contract they're actually working under. I mean, look—if you have an assistant for a student with physical disabilities who can't grab books from their bag, or someone who is deaf or blind, that support is vital for everything—from art class to gym to religious studies.
I mean, honestly, just the whole idea of hiring religious instructors is controversial enough on its own—it’s one of those things that falls right into the believe it or not category.
The thing is, every other staff member at the school goes through the standard competitive hiring process via public job postings. But with the religious teachers? The local diocese just sends over their picks to the principal, and the principal basically just has to nod along and say "okay."
Michelle Nelson4 said:I honestly think we should implement a standardized set of uniform exams at the end of every grade level for all students. We could use those scores as the primary metric for high school admissions. Plus, let's be real—we should publish the results by school and even by teacher. It’s about time we actually see who is truly pulling their weight and delivering quality education versus who isn't. If we made these results public for a few years, I’m convinced it would finally spark a much-needed conversation about merit-based evaluation instead of just focusing on seniority and tenure.
Take the recent data from Lincoln High, for example. Out of four different fourth-grade classes, five students from one single class hit the top 10% bracket, while the other two classes only had one student each make the cut, and one class didn't have anyone in the top tier at all. It's the exact same school with the exact same demographic of parents... so how is it possible that the kids in that one specific classroom are thinking so critically and solving problems so effectively while everyone else is lagging so far behind?
Now, this is another one of those tricky, sensitive topics... For instance, imagine you have a colleague working in a tiny rural town in the Midwest, maybe in a district where the entire two or three classes consist entirely of immigrant kids. They show up for first grade at nine or ten years old without basic hygiene habits, they don't speak any English, and they don't even have pencils or notebooks. The fact that everyone in her class manages to finish all four elementary grades and can actually read, write, and do math by the end of it is nothing short of a miracle. But if you used external standardized testing? Her results would look catastrophic, and she’d probably end up at the very bottom of the list, labeled as one of the most incompetent teachers in the whole country. And it gets even messier once you get into specialized subjects. Like, say I step in to teach English after a colleague who spent the entire school year playing FarmVille on her computer while the kids were just staring at their phones. The students haven't learned anything, so I spend my time teaching them material from two grades back just to patch the holes in their knowledge—and then, at the end of the year, an external evaluation comes out and claims *I'm* the incompetent one? I just can't get behind measuring final outcomes if we didn't take the time to measure where the students actually started.