Look, it really just comes down to how the school decides to set its priorities. Do they want classes split strictly by religious vs. non-religious tracks, or are they trying to play nice with what parents want—like which teacher gets their kid or who ends up in which classroom? (Back when I was in high school, those kinds of requests and preferences weren't even on the radar, honestly.) How is it that high schools can just breeze through setting up these religion-vs-ethics tracks without any drama?
I don't really want to go digging through old threads, but I remember someone posting about this exact issue—they had a kid in a class where maybe five or six students didn't attend the religious studies sessions. It was the same deal in two other sections too, yet somehow, those kids weren't pulled into a separate non-religious group. The thing is, if you create a non-religious track like that, the instructor loses two hours of teaching time. Think about it—if they have religious studies in the first three grades, that’s six hours a week, but if they move to two grades, it drops to four. If you have one non-religious section per grade across all eight grades, that’s 16 hours gone. You'd end up with an instructor only hitting a third of their required weekly workload. So, honestly, I truly believe the reason they aren't forming separate non-religious classes is simply to protect the teacher's full schedule.
It’s just one of those things, Tanita—even when there are actually enough kids in a school to justify having a dedicated religion class, they often don't bother setting it up. Instead, they just toss everyone together into two or three mixed groups... mostly because it helps the teachers hit their required hourly quotas more easily. I've definitely seen that happen firsthand back home.
And kids don't really hang out and talk to each other much anyway—so, I mean, has anyone actually sat them down and explained that hell is basically just a place where the devil grills anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus? ☕
It’s actually explicitly stated—and this applies to things like second languages or computer science too—in what I believe is the state education code (I really don't feel like digging through legal documents right now to find the exact statute, sorry!): once an elective is chosen, it becomes mandatory for those students. All that means is that if you pick it, you're expected to show up, do the work, and get graded on it. It’s basically just a way to ensure these classes are ranked higher than things like the debate club, choir, or even some of those casual hobby groups where you don't have to show up regularly, don't need to excuse absences, can drop out whenever you feel like it mid-semester, and don't even end up on the official transcript or receive grades.
Keith Miller30 said:Actually, I think it should just be treated like any other subject and scheduled for first, second, or third period. But honestly, it doesn't really matter; I have no desire to get into a heated debate over this, especially since nobody seems to care what anyone thinks—religious studies will remain part of the school curriculum regardless.
I was simply noting that what was mentioned above strikes me as somewhat psychologically unsound, and I say that with complete sincerity and absolutely no intention of being offensive.
It’d be pretty great if computer science and my German class were also scheduled during those times, rather than just being stuck in the afternoon session. I guess all animals are created equal, right? ☕
Keith Miller30 said:I mean this without any intention of being offensive, but have you perhaps considered talking to a therapist? This starts to feel a bit paranoid.
I truly don't mean to insult you, but this is right up there with those people who see the FBI behind every single shadow.
If religious education isn't something you're comfortable with for your child, just opt them out; go to the teacher and explain that it conflicts with your beliefs and your parenting style, and it's all settled.
I am entirely in favor of having religious studies in schools, though I do believe it shouldn't be scheduled during the first or last period, but is it really fair to force a student to participate in something their parents have explicitly asked them to avoid?
I'm totally with you on that. Honestly, just send me to the graveyard shift—it'll probably go better than my attempts at learning Spanish. ☕
So, look—in some schools, principals and their admin teams send out these little surveys every single school year for every grade level. A principal at my friend’s school used to do this all the time, but her IT director and the German teacher actually had to step in and threaten her with an audit. (The thing is, a lot of parents are way too lazy to write a formal request, but if they just have to circle a "NO" on a sheet of paper, suddenly their kids will write it faster than you can say "ironing board." It was causing a massive headache because teachers were losing hours of instruction time just dealing with parents trying to suck up to the principal and bypass the actual rules.) I mean, it's not even about having a wild imagination... some schools really just operate totally outside the regulations.
Religion is actually an elective subject—kind of like taking Spanish or Computer Science. It’s officially on the school roster and you get a grade for it. Choir and rhythm classes? Those are just extracurricular activities. They aren't listed on the official transcript and they don't count toward your GPA. Just wanted to clear that up so we aren't using the wrong terms. (Honestly, back when my family moved into our neighborhood about twenty years ago, they tried to sell us on the idea that religion was mandatory. Nobody bothered to mention that we could just... not go. 🙄 ))
But honestly, those grades from first through fourth grade don't even matter for high school admissions. They only look at what happened in fifth through eighth—and even then, they usually just glance back at the last couple of years. Before that change, it was strictly just seventh and eighth grade. And yet, the panic is exactly the same from first grade all the way up to eighth. 🤷
You couldn't even skip the goat—you took a hit right on the chin. (How do I know ☕? Well, I didn't exactly have a little goat or a springboard lying around at home to practice with all through summer break. Unlike those tricky rhythmic additions—my dad actually taped a target to my bedroom wall just so I could practice! But after we finished playing volleyball, he repainted the whole wall and that was that.) Plus, I was out there jumping rope in front of the house, and I even had footstep markers laid out in the hallway to practice my two-step... And you didn't bother memorizing the lyrics or doing any solfège for music class, man. Not to mention those listening exams—where you have to identify the piece or the composer—except we didn't have a CD coming with the textbook or YouTube to actually practice recognizing stuff at home.
And honestly, piling a mountain of chores on kids or just letting them rot in front of screens isn't really a valid excuse for any of this. 🤷
Lawrence Torres56 said:It’s not even about being satisfied; it's about the message you're sending... and honestly, I think that bolded part should be explained to the kids directly, rather than telling them how a C is actually a great grade...
Look, I don't know how likely it is that a kid getting Cs in first grade will bail on school in seventh, but I see it all the time—kids who are fed this line end up not studying at all because they genuinely start thinking a C is top-tier. So, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they do end up checking out by seventh grade when things actually get serious and they really need to crack the books.
Which basically means that nowadays, you have to help kids practice and work at home for everything—not just the old-school subjects like English, math, or science, but even PE, art, and music too.😁
Look, I'll say it—if your kid is basically glued to the couch all day, then you’ve got two choices: either get them moving and actually deal with PE, or just stop stressing about those mediocre gym grades. It's really not that deep. It’s honestly nothing groundbreaking—just one of those things. You know how it is... I was sitting there thinking about what I actually needed help with, looking for some actual guidance or instructions, and can you believe which subject it turned out to be? It was freaking PE. And we're talking from twenty-five years ago, too. Just... life, I guess. Other kids were probably sitting there memorizing their multiplication tables or—I don't know—learning about vowel shifts and chemical elements in middle school, while I was wasting hours upon hours on things like the shot put, the star jump, the two-step, the three-step, and the long jump... all just trying to scrape together enough points to hit a passing grade in PE.
I'm totally signing off on this. Especially when you have a student who hasn't made a single ounce of progress on an element from the very first day they started working on it all the way up to the final grade. (I’m not a department head or anything—just someone who spends way too much time hanging out with them 😉 )
Karen Richardson3 said:Is it just me, or is everyone in New York City dealing with crazy overcrowding at specific schools right now, or is it basically everywhere across the country?
Seattle is actually the complete opposite; the number of kids has basically been cut in half, yet the number of classrooms hasn't budged because the school districts aren't letting teachers go. The average class size over in Seattle is only about 15 kids 😁
I was reading this recent feature story in the Seattle Times about first graders, and my little guy's class was completely left out of the coverage because they have a whopping 28 students 😁 (And the reason it's so packed is because there are two different first-grade tracks—his is a full-day program, while the other group only stays for a few hours before heading home, so all those kids end up crammed into that one full-day "rush." I went to the same school growing up, and back then, we had three classes per grade with about 30 kids in each.))
So, I was looking over the educational standards again—you know, those official guidelines that are supposed to make everything run smoothly—and honestly, the math just doesn't add up. According to the rules, you’re supposed to have a minimum of 14 students in a class and a maximum of 28. Plus, there’s this specific rule about integrated students with special needs; basically, if you have a student requiring an individualized program, the total cap for the class is supposed to drop to accommodate them. But then you look at the actual numbers we're dealing with in reality... it's a mess. Like, say you have a group of 28 kids in a grade level, and one of them needs a specialized curriculum. By the book, you're technically supposed to split that entire group into two separate classes. Or, if you have 26 kids and two of them have IEPs, you're suddenly looking at splitting them into two groups of 13. It sounds good on paper, I guess, but trying to balance those ratios when you actually have to manage the classroom? It's a bit of a headache, to be honest. Just one of those things where the policy feels like it's fighting against common sense.
It’s extra, just like those elective classes—entirely voluntary on the students' part. You can't officially log absences for them, you can't mark them unexcused just because they didn't show up, and you definitely can't stop them from dropping out right in the middle of the school year if they decide they've had enough. We keep a record that the sessions actually happened, but at the end of the day, the kids aren't required to attend if they don't feel like it.
Regarding that second point, have you actually read what people are saying online? 🤦 Look, there are three of us who KNOW firsthand—from actual experience, having seen the stamped handbooks with my own eyes—that students were getting bad grades specifically for skipping Sunday Mass at their local parish, but hey, you know better than we do. 🤦
Extra classes and those electives aren't mandatory—a student can pretty much walk away from them whenever they feel like it during the school year, no big explanations needed. But once an elective is officially logged in the gradebook at the start of the term, it’s basically a commitment for the rest of the year. Under the new rules, you can't just drop it mid-stream unless there’s some major, unforeseen circumstance—usually something medical.
And honestly, it can be a bit of a headache trying to get clear answers at certain schools. Since there are so many different teachers involved, things stay up in the air until late August when they finally nail down the final headcount for classes and students.
I actually teach an elective myself, and no—students don't really have to declare their choice at the start of every school year. Basically, if they don't submit a formal written request to opt out, it’s just assumed they're sticking with the class again.
As for the whole religious studies thing and having to attend church services... my cousin had a teacher like that about ten years ago. They had to go to the local parish for religious ed and collect these specific stamps in a little booklet from the priest—and if you missed mass three times, you were basically out of luck. So, parents would end up dragging them to Sunday service and confession just to make sure everything was documented. There were also all these headaches if you weren't at your home parish—like, say, you go to a different church nearby, but the priest there doesn't have a deal with your teacher and won't give you the stamp, so then the teacher won't count it... honestly, her parents were losing their minds that entire year. Thankfully, the following year she got a much more chill teacher. So, yeah—just because you didn't experience something personally doesn't mean it isn't happening.
If that's the case, then your school is actually breaking the rules. Honestly, there shouldn't be any need for signing a consent form every single year—once you enroll your kid in an elective during first, fourth, or fifth grade, you're basically giving your implicit consent for them to take that class all the way through the end of elementary school. If you want out, you just have to submit a formal written request to withdraw by August 15th, and then the school board makes the final call.
We’ve probably gone over this for ten pages by now—honestly, I think we have—but look: just move Catholicism into the same scheduling blocks as those other two electives, and you'll see that whole "cultural identity" argument melt away faster than an ice cream cone in a Chicago summer. And besides, parents really only weigh in during that very first enrollment—usually back in first grade—and after that, kids just stay enrolled in whatever elective they took the year before, unless a parent actually goes through the trouble of filing a formal written request to opt them out.
It’s not just the whole "Santa isn't real" thing—it’s also the fact that parents are basically the ones sneaking the gifts under the tree and calling it a day. Just in case the first part of that sentence didn't already completely kill the Christmas magic for you.