Posts by dustybear7

12 posts shown.

Boosting property value in Real Estate · Nov 26, 2012

Mark Sullivan62 said:Honestly, there shouldn't be anything too controversial going on here

Look, if we're talking about splitting an apartment 50/50, then at the end of the day, just get a formal appraisal done—hire a real estate agency or a court-appointed appraiser or whatever else works

Your half of that total is what you're looking at

If your brother was promised by your parents that his investments would be paid back, then they should just pay him back—and honestly, if they include interest, it might actually make it easier for him to buy you out later

As for whether now is the right time to settle up, I wouldn't say so, especially considering how much market prices have been swinging lately; however, that doesn't mean it's too late to sit down and decide on the actual principles we're using for this whole split

And all those arguments about value spikes? Total nonsense to me

I mean, the value of that property could have shot up without him lifting a single finger; say a bunch of old buildings in the neighborhood get torn down and replaced with luxury condos or a new daycare center opens up nearby, suddenly the whole area is more attractive and the apartment is worth way more, so what? He can't just expect to reap all the rewards without doing any of the work

And since he’s been pulling in rental income from it—probably under the table, because if he weren't, you'd probably know exactly how much he's making, though you likely have no clue—well, he should be splitting that with you, just like it's your property too... but of course, that hasn't even crossed his mind, has it?

That is precisely what we are attempting. It complicates matters further because there is a massive discrepancy between what local real estate agencies claim the market value is, versus what a certified professional appraiser actually calculates.
Naturally, we have stumbled into yet another minefield.

if the parents promised to reimburse his investments, they should pay him back—with interest, perhaps, to make it easier for him to buy you out

I don't disagree with the logic, but my parents aren't exactly made of money.
Especially when they recall allowing him to live there rent-free for such a long stretch; paying interest now would feel incredibly distasteful.
In my view, everything they put into the place has already been consumed. Besides, the value isn't even what it used to be in a "newly renovated" home... suggesting they pay him interest on top of that feels... distasteful. 🤷

whether now is the right time for such a payout depends on current market trends, though that doesn't mean it's too late to establish the principles governing the split.

And that is where our interests diverge—my brother and I have conflicting agendas, and it is painfully obvious.

those spikes in value from his improvements are irrelevant to me

because property value can climb without his direct influence—say, a developer tears down an old building nearby to build luxury condos or a new school, making the whole neighborhood more desirable, and suddenly this unit is worth more too. So what? He shouldn't get extra credit for luck.

Agreed.

since he generated rental income (likely under the table, otherwise you'd know exactly how much, but you probably have no clue), he should share that with you; after all, it's your property too... but of course, that hasn't crossed his mind.

Of course it hasn't.
☕
😉

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Boosting property value in Real Estate · Nov 6, 2012

Bradley Scott2 said:That’s how I saw it too.
Look, if the regulators actually want to be fair, they just need to show everyone that Bradley Scott2's math doesn't add up.
Quincy
Let's get back to talking about that "increased value."
So, my brother's logic is basically this— The apartment is worth those imaginary 290 bucks. In theory, I should give my sister 145, but since I'm... I'm here. I managed to bump up my value by 90 through some investing. Half of that goes straight to actual costs, while the rest is just for show—basically paying extra just to make it look more expensive than it really is. Actually, I don't pay my sister $145, just $145.-90Yeah, that’s $55.
Honestly, this just feels like an insult to common sense.

Basically, once his parents get their money back, his actual investment ends up being zero.Zero. I'm just out of cash.
Even if we look at that increased value, once he gets his money back, it wasn't his brother who bumped it up—it was those old guys.
Thirdly, if we follow that logic—assuming he put a million dollars into the house—then I should be the one paying him, rather than him paying me out. 😲😁
Well, you pretty much laid out all the arguments yourself there.
If parents are paying money back, they’re essentially just making an investment.

Quincy:
So, he was generating revenue in... ours When it comes to our property, he basically claimed he was "contributing" just by living there. Honestly, both my parents and I think his logic is pretty skewed—if not downright disrespectful.

That's why I'm asking... What exactly happens with that increased property value, and how does it actually work?
What actually happens when someone pours money into a property they don't fully own, especially if they're the ones running it and pocketing the profit?
How do you even go about fixing this?
If you're living in an apartment, you really have a responsibility to take care of the place. Even if you're just renting, you should still handle the basic upkeep.

It’s honestly pretty tough to tell the difference between an actual value-add investment and just basic maintenance sometimes.
Adding more square footage through an addition obviously bumps up the property value.
It’s the same deal when you're looking at things like putting on a new exterior, installing central heating, or swapping out all the windows.
Things like repainting walls, refinishing hardwood floors, or swapping out an old faucet or water heater are just standard maintenance, especially if you've been living in the same place for a while.
Interior design is such a toss-up. It’s honestly tough to tell if those upgrades actually add any real value to the house.
If you've been living in the same house for 15 or 20 years, things like updating the siding, replacing old windows, or swapping out an aging furnace aren't really "investments" anymore—they're just necessary maintenance.

In principle, they think just like I do; they simply want to be certain they aren't making a move that harms anyone.

Quincy:

You basically laid out all the arguments yourself.
If the parents are paying money back, they are effectively the ones investing.

True, but my brother is definitely twisting things to suit his own interests... and the seniors are too confused to see through it. 🙂

Quincy:

If someone lives in a property, it is their responsibility to maintain it. Even a tenant in a rental is obligated to handle basic upkeep.

OK, good to know.

Quincy:

Interior renovations are highly debatable—it's hard to say how much such an investment actually increases the value.

That's my theory as well—lowering a ceiling might be a plus for one person and a loss of space for another. Same goes for knocking down a wall between rooms.
I am full of doubts because while I feel my logic is sound, I suspect my brother operates from the exact same standpoint regarding the validity of his reasoning. 🤷

That is why I was hoping someone would chime in with a similar life story regarding splitting costs, investments, equity increases, and so on.
I don't want to cheat him, and I don't want to be cheated... 😵

Quincy:

If someone has occupied a property for 15-20 years, then updating the siding, replacing windows, or fixing an old HVAC system isn't really an "investment"—it's just standard maintenance.

It has been 14 years (not 12, as I originally thought), but still... how can we ask the seniors or me to pay for "increased value" when his financial contributions over the years have essentially been swallowed up by upkeep? And let's be realistic: even before any of these upgrades, the property was worth significantly more due to the market than it has been these last few years... 🤷

Tnx, anyway. 😉

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Boosting property value in Real Estate · Nov 4, 2012

"dustybear7" says: The sheer audacity required to present such a hollow argument is almost impressive. It’s exhausting.

Bradley Scott2 said:You've got it backward.
😁

There are two main things to consider here.
First, it feels like our parents are favoring my brother and pushing me to the sidelines. I won't get into why or how unfair that is, but that's just how it looks. It seems they have other assets to distribute down the road. Honestly, fighting them over this might be counterproductive. Usually, anything gifted to one heir early on is factored into the final inheritance unless everyone agrees otherwise. But if you push too hard, they might just leave everything to him, leaving you with nothing but the bare minimum required by law. Or even worse, they could sign a support agreement with him, which would cut you out entirely.

Second, the real estate market has taken a massive hit, and prices are likely to keep sliding. There's no telling what that house is actually worth right now. People tend to fantasize about equity, but when they try to sell, nobody is offering even half of the asking price. On top of that, the economy is shaky and there's talk of new property taxes. Prices are definitely going down.
So, that house your brother thinks is worth $290k ($200k + $50k + $40k) might realistically struggle to fetch even $120k.

My advice? Just go along with his math, because it actually works in your favor.
If the house is "worth" $290k, but he only spent $50k on it and lived there rent-free, he shouldn't get credit for that extra $40k "value increase." He should just pay you half of the base value minus his investment—so, $120k. And honestly, $120k might be more than enough to buy a similar place tomorrow!

I suppose my initial post gave that impression, but that isn't the case at all. You made a fair assumption regarding other assets like real estate, but the apartment the elderly couple lives in is quite small. Given how much more valuable the brother's place is due to its prime location, their current home holds significantly less value.
That’s exactly why property isn't divided on some idealistic "one for you, one for me" basis. It’s all about reaching an agreement where I actually see a payout now, while the other unit just sits there waiting for its turn... only to be split fifty-fifty down the line. 🙂

To that point, I receive the exact same amount my brother gets for renovations, thanks to my long-standing rental income. This places us on completely equal footing once again. Therefore, this isn't about me being in denial or playing blind; there is simply no question of favoritism or special treatment involved. Quite the contrary.
The elders have decided to play the martyr in this whole affair, obsessing over old divisions just to wrap everything up under one convenient, collective label. 😉

No, let us return to the matter of the "increased value."

"dustybear7," you seem remarkably optimistic about this. It’s a naive perspective, frankly.

Second, real estate prices have absolutely cratered, and they aren’t stopping anytime soon. It's a massive question mark whether any of these properties are actually worth what people claim. Everyone lives in a fantasy land, but once they hit the market, they can't find a single buyer willing to offer even half of their asking price. On top of that, the crisis is just getting worse with new property taxes on the horizon. Prices are bound to keep sliding.
So, that apartment your brother insists is worth some $290k—counting all those inflated numbers—probably wouldn't even fetch $120k on the actual market.

That apartment is worth significantly more than that; this $200k figure is pure fiction. 😉

"dustybear7," you’re being optimistic. It won't happen.

My advice would be to simply accept his calculation; it works in your favor.

Is this working in my favor? The old folks and I are currently leaning toward the idea that it isn't helping at all—it’s actually doing us harm.

My brother’s logic is essentially this— The apartment is valued at those imaginary $290,000. Theoretically, I should be handing my sister $145,000, but since I am... I suppose I am here. The investment yielded a 90% increase in value. "Fifty percent goes toward actual overhead, while the rest is just pure window dressing designed to inflate his perceived value." Actually, I don't pay my sister $145; I pay her exactly $145.-90Exactly. Fifty-five bucks.
It’s an insult to anyone with a functioning brain.

Look, once those seniors get their expenses reimbursed, his actual investment drops to zero.Zero. It’s all about the money.
Furthermore, if we actually consider the increased valuation, then once the funds are returned, it wasn't his brother who inflated the value—it was the old guard.
Thirdly, if we follow that absurd logic where he invested a measly million dollars into the property, then I should be the one cutting him a check instead of him paying me out. 😲😁

And let's not forget, he wasn't paying rent while living there. Instead, he and his wife were actually generating income from renting out her property all those years. Since the apartment is located in a major vacation destination, they even took advantage of the seasonal tourist market.

In short, he was profiting from our property—both his and mine—while essentially "consuming" its value by living in it. My parents and I find his logic, to put it mildly, highly questionable and frankly quite brazen.

So, I have to ask... how is that increased property value handled?
What happens when someone invests capital into a property they don't fully own, especially while simultaneously drawing income from it and utilizing it as their primary residence?
How is this legally resolved?

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Boosting property value in Real Estate · Nov 3, 2012

So...
I’ve been debating whether to post this here or over on Inheritance because the issue touches on both topics.

Basically, after my grandmother passed away, my parents inherited an apartment that my brother eventually moved into. Over the twelve years he lived there, the place underwent several renovations—mostly because they couldn't afford to do everything at once—even though it was already decent, just "old-fashioned."
To be clear, it wasn't as if we were dealing with a total wreck that needed a complete overhaul just to be livable.

Throughout those years, my parents kept telling him they were keeping track of all the renovation costs and that he would be reimbursed one day.
There was this unspoken assumption that the apartment would eventually belong to him, even though it was "understood" that half the place belongs to me—meaning that upon my parents' passing, since I live in a different city, I would be bought out for my half.

However, the decision was made to settle the ownership now and have me bought out immediately, which has triggered a whole chain of arguments and logic.

Looking back... considering the title of this thread, I probably could have explained this entire mess with much, much fewer words... 🙂

My brother has sunk tens of thousands of dollars into the place, yet he claims that by doing so, he has effectively increased the property's value (which I don't doubt). According to his logic—if the apartment was worth $200k before his various partial renovations, and he put $50k into it, he argues he increased the value by the actual $50k plus an extra $40k 😵(his own estimate).

Theoretically, this shouldn't affect me since I'm not the one paying him back, but in practice, it lowers the payout for my half.

I hope I've been clear enough. 🤷

Since my parents are going to reimburse him for every single cent he actually spent, my theory is that they, rather than him, are the ones actually increasing the property's value, because they are ultimately financing all those improvements. Therefore, I should receive a true half of the current appraised value.

Am I overthinking this?

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Ego complaint. in Feedback & Suggestions · Dec 23, 2008

fadedlynx39 said:POST 1

Man, Dervish... he's become forgettable. Unlike you, Scott Nguyen2. I told him via DM not too long ago: Calm down, because a day will come when you'll make fools of yourselves because of what you're doing now. And then you'll wish for rowdyhawk10, even if he were rising from the mud.

It's obvious. You've been united by your own lack of direction rather than the malice of one man (anyone with eyes can look at points two, three, and four above). And as for those who want to sleep—let them sleep! Life certainly won't stay asleep forever. I'm heading out. You can either wake up, return to the forum, and move past this childishness, or just keep sleeping.

Hey, moon's here on Earth! Moon, give us a shout!
We aren't even really posting on the forum, we're just here watching you write.
When I say "us," I’m talking about: Musliman.hr, Adura, sjena, Kobi, Kate Phillips40, Kenneth Peterson5, domaćica, Rufaija, brezovka, FMN, InsanInside, and me.
Do you realize you've managed to rally twelve different forum members against yourself and the whole site?
You really chased away the leaders... and everyone else who would've been on our side.
Do you realize that the number of people boycotting you is just going to keep growing?
Do you realize we’re all on one side here and you're just out there on your own?
Do you realize that eventually even the admin team is going to turn their backs on you? The pdf religija is tanking because of how you handle moderation.
Try to look at the bigger picture for a second... Adura said it perfectly when he mentioned that God gave us this perspective so we can see things differently than they actually appear.
Sometimes God lets things slide just to let someone walk right into their own downfall without even realizing it.

Man, Dervish... he's become forgettable. Unlike you, Scott Nguyen2. I told him via DM not too long ago: Calm down, because a day will come when you'll make fools of yourselves because of what you're doing now. And then you'll wish for rowdyhawk10, even if he were rising from the mud.

It's obvious. You've been united by your own lack of direction rather than the malice of one man (anyone with eyes can look at points two, three, and four above). And as for those who want to sleep—let them sleep! Life certainly won't stay asleep forever. I'm heading out. You can either wake up, return to the forum, and move past this childishness, or just keep sleeping.

You're talking about all those complaints that nobody even bothered to write a single word about.

Kobi: I can't believe I actually thought that was true! My bad, totally slipped my mind. Just a silly little mistake on my part.
Kate Phillips40: I can't believe how much things have changed lately. It feels like everything is moving so fast! Just trying to keep up, honestly.
fadedlynx39: I can't believe how much work I put into this! Honestly, I’m probably overthinking things, but I really hope you guys enjoy reading it. Let me know what you think!

Or just those totally baseless complaints, like:
Rufaija:
homemaker: I can't believe I actually found this! Honestly, such a wild read. Just had to share.

Yeah, you know... same old story.
Basically, dogs bark while the caravan just keeps moving.
And you're still throwing that complaint book in our faces like it's some kind of tool just to belittle us with those vague explanations of yours.

Man, Dervish... he's become forgettable. Unlike you, Scott Nguyen2. I told him via DM not too long ago: Calm down, because a day will come when you'll make fools of yourselves because of what you're doing now. And then you'll wish for rowdyhawk10, even if he were rising from the mud.

It's obvious. You've been united by your own lack of direction rather than the malice of one man (anyone with eyes can look at points two, three, and four above). And as for those who want to sleep—let them sleep! Life certainly won't stay asleep forever. I'm heading out. You can either wake up, return to the forum, and move past this childishness, or just keep sleeping.

What religion? The one where Satanists thank an atheist Ego for keeping things orderly so believers don't get "attacked" by everyone else?
Are you really grouping atheism and Satanism with actual religions? It’s like an atheist trying to manage the pdf religija... as if the CEO of Pepsi was running Coca-Cola. No wonder Pepsi's struggling...
Do we even need to talk just so you have someone to hand out warnings to?
Go ahead, ban me tonight. That's about 1,000 points. Might give you enough peace to sleep for at least two days.
Are we chatting just so you can act like some grand vizier, filtering our posts and playing the role of the big shot supervisor?
People are literally cursing God and you're just sitting there silent hypocrite!
The way Musliman.hr tries to justify not taking action is just pathetic. Such a weak excuse. Seriously, yikes!
If we were actual Americans, rowdyhawk10, we would have penalized you for insulting anyone's sacred beliefs. That’s how much the admins back you up. Just like you told me once on private message that you were "in charge" of us...
Now you've got usernames like "total garbage sheep" floating around and you're staying quiet like a fish hypocrite

Man, Dervish... he's become forgettable. Unlike you, Scott Nguyen2. I told him via DM not too long ago: Calm down, because a day will come when you'll make fools of yourselves because of what you're doing now. And then you'll wish for rowdyhawk10, even if he were rising from the mud.

It's obvious. You've been united by your own lack of direction rather than the malice of one man (anyone with eyes can look at points two, three, and four above). And as for those who want to sleep—let them sleep! Life certainly won't stay asleep forever. I'm heading out. You can either wake up, return to the forum, and move past this childishness, or just keep sleeping.

🤣🤣🤣
Should we expect a positive outcome around the year 2019 in the Islamic calendar?
A moderator being unfair? Really?
Listen, don't even think about saying something like that, let alone actually saying it...
That's such heresy... imagining a moderator could be unfair.
So now we're all just kids in a preschool?

Man, Dervish... he's become forgettable. Unlike you, Scott Nguyen2. I told him via DM not too long ago: Calm down, because a day will come when you'll make fools of yourselves because of what you're doing now. And then you'll wish for rowdyhawk10, even if he were rising from the mud.

It's obvious. You've been united by your own lack of direction rather than the malice of one man (anyone with eyes can look at points two, three, and four above). And as for those who want to sleep—let them sleep! Life certainly won't stay asleep forever. I'm heading out. You can either wake up, return to the forum, and move past this childishness, or just keep sleeping.

Out of ideas, huh?
Well, maybe we are. But wait until you see my "ideas" when you face a lawsuit.
We wouldn't know anything about glory or success. That's reserved for the moderators. They clearly know how to carry the load. Regular folks like us? We couldn't handle it.
People starting to love Islam?
*Your* version of Islam?
The one where you basically greenlight everything people crave?
When are you going to start saying certain marriages are recommended, only to ban anyone who dares disagree? You got kicked out of those other groups for that exact attitude.
In your version of spreading the faith, you even allow people to curse God if it helps them "acknowledge" Him, just like you allowed the trash to pile up and then tried to explain it away to God later. It's intellectually bankrupt. And you honestly think anyone buys your excuses? Yeah, we're just kids in a preschool... we don't get your little intentions.
Honestly, this version of Islam you’re pushing—your specific take on it—is just hard to stomach. It’s honestly nauseating for everyone to deal with your "deep" interpretations. 🤮
I think I'm speaking for pretty much everyone here when I say this.

Man, Dervish... he's become forgettable. Unlike you, Scott Nguyen2. I told him via DM not too long ago: Calm down, because a day will come when you'll make fools of yourselves because of what you're doing now. And then you'll wish for rowdyhawk10, even if he were rising from the mud.

It's obvious. You've been united by your own lack of direction rather than the malice of one man (anyone with eyes can look at points two, three, and four above). And as for those who want to sleep—let them sleep! Life certainly won't stay asleep forever. I'm heading out. You can either wake up, return to the forum, and move past this childishness, or just keep sleeping.

That "one person" you're talking about? That's YOU.
And bringing up Jezid as the ultimate example of terrible teaching is just... wow.
Instead of pointing to those who actually struggled with the Prophet, you pick Jezid, whom certain factions hate even more than the devil himself.
Every time you use the word "ME," you're basically begging for someone to snap back with

"Not you—us." 🤷

Адажио is quite the interesting little piece

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Ego complaint. in Feedback & Suggestions · Dec 22, 2008

Scott Nguyen2!
Thanks for putting this out there!
Finally, someone actually being level-headed and keeping their cool enough to write something with some actual logic instead of just getting all worked up!

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Ego complaint. in Feedback & Suggestions · Dec 22, 2008

Scott Nguyen2 said:
Look, at the end of the day... I’m actually glad you noticed that Scott Nguyen2 is finally stepping up and getting involved now—especially since he wouldn't say a single word fifteen days ago when everyone was throwing insults around. You hit the nail on the head with your question: where was he back then to call out the injustice and all the garbage being spewed by his "friends"? Where was he to criticize—even just symbolically—those people writing such nonsense? And then he goes and says he "doesn't want to get involved"... wow, you really caught onto that one! I actually told him in my last post: Simona figured out years ago how shady that kind of behavior is. It's the exact same thing here, and he even went out of his way to say, "Sunnah, don't give up." You totally spotted that too—he’s clearly just trying not to "offend" certain users, specifically the majority he's now desperately protesting against.

Man, there is just so much drama being stirred up here. It's all getting a bit too low-level. Once upon a time (since we're so obsessed with bringing up the past), I got carried away myself and mentioned the Sandook area in a bad light—and honestly, that’s the only thing I truly regret saying. At the end of the day, brothers are brothers, no matter what kind of person you turn out to be.
Look at us—mashallah—Salafis, Sufis, and followers of different schools all standing together in the same line. Isn't it wild how God works? Let that be an example for us. Isn't His name the Gatherer? My heart would be so full if I could just happily grab a coffee sometime—without all this second-guessing—with C&B, Koby, Bradley Davis33, Dervish, boldgull19, FMN Alem, Jack Wood43, Sunnah, the Charlatan, wearyhawk222, and the rest of you (forgive me if I missed anyone!), just to sit and have a real conversation🙂. There’s just too little time in this life to waste it on hatred and living in bitterness.

I can't really speak for "myself"—that feels ungrateful. I'd rather people criticize me than have someone praise me, because honestly, I'm pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of all this. I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, nor am I asking them to "defend" me or, heaven forbid, "follow" me... let alone anything more serious than that. May God allow it so that when we give, it's done so quietly that the left hand doesn't even know what the right hand is doing. Amen!

_____________________

Regarding your moderation duties, that’s been entrusted to you by His will. You are the one whom God gave the authority (the power on this Reddit) to grant rights to others. Those "others" are the ones seeking the justice that you are meant to provide, which is a right God gave to you in your role as a moderator. What is the point of having rights if they only serve those who already hold power? That makes no sense. If someone in power starts demanding their own "rights," just know they're getting caught up in worldly interests, and that "authority" becomes a test—or even a reason for their downfall. Why should a "ruler" demand rights from their subordinates? Doesn't he already have them? Aren't rights there specifically for the disempowered and the wronged? Like I said, generally speaking, rights are sought by those who lack them, and for God's sake, those who *do* have power are obligated to grant them in His name, because that power was given to them as a trust from Him—and isn't His name the Lord?
Anyway, it's tough on whoever gets power and refuses to pass it on to those searching for it. That person is nothing but a nuisance and a source of chaos, and they clearly don't know how to judge fairly.
But God is just, so He will recognize the good you do in your moderation. It is definitely a good thing that you stood up to defend the sisters, especially sister Sunnah🙂. God rewards abundantly🙂, and God will eventually remove everything that stands in the way of "justice" reaching those who seek it, even if none of us ever post on this forum again.

Anyway, I’m rambling a bit, but I see the good in all of this. To me, it's truly a blessing to be in the same line as the Salafis, the Sufis, and the various schools of thought (the Shia aren't on the forum right now, but they're always welcome).🙂 , Mashallah, we wouldn't have even gotten this far—God willing—if you hadn't gone and united us all with your absolutely twisted way of moderating. Mashallah, God works in mysterious ways...

Anyway, my boycott is still going strong, and honestly—take a look around (it's like "us" barely exists on Reddit anymore, at least not the old crew)—just look at what you've done to this place. This whole thing has turned into nothing but a sub-forum for Religion, and god knows what it’s turning into now. If you can't see that—and if God has truly blinded you to the reality of how things look—then I guess there's some kind of lesson in it, I suppose...

Peace be upon you

...

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Ego complaint. in Feedback & Suggestions · Dec 22, 2008

rowdyhawk10 said:1. I'm not ignoring the forum; you are. I am still posting here.

2. It should be perfectly clear to you (and to Dervish too) that users have every right to complain when they feel wronged by unfair moderation. After all, there is an entire subforum dedicated to this, right here: Complaints and Grievances isn't there?

3. Because of that, you didn't need to boycott the Religion section (which feels like a childish tantrum); you could have just kept posting while simultaneously putting pressure on the complaints section regarding my mistakes. Nobody ever stopped you from doing that.

4. Furthermore, the administration isn't blind to moderator injustice when it happens. They might be slow sometimes, but they do step in frequently to correct us moderators, and occasionally even replace us. So, this behavior seems to me like nothing more than the kind of tantrum you'd see in a preschool.

5. Looking at those four points, it’s pretty obvious—you guys have likely run out of ideas. The weight of responsibility has exhausted you. It's hard to endure having to tell someone they are a spiritual killer of their child, or a sinner, or a homosexual. Perhaps you were just intimidated by the proximity and brightness of success, now that people are actually starting to love Islam.

6. I don't find anyone's boycott joyful, and I actually feel bad about all this. But I imagine you and a few other lobbyists (like Jason) are certainly enjoying this and getting a bit carried away... otherwise, you wouldn't be doing this, and you would realize that Islam is more important than any single individual, even if the person in the moderator seat were Yazid himself. There have been those who dealt with him and still came out proud.

Therefore, Scott Nguyen2, you are only here for one reason—to lobby, as Bradley Davis33 put it in a gentler way—for a specific clique. And here is why:

7. YOU are boycotting the forum for a completely irrelevant reason because you aren't even complaining about anything where my moderation personally affected you! Have you ever been personally wronged here? Has my moderation ever caused you injustice? Of course not. If it has, tell me when and where (though you won't; you'll probably just moan about how "it hurts to see injustice toward the brothers, so you feel obligated...").

8. This is quite important: you are just like the others lobbying here. In fact, it’s becoming almost tragicomic. Just as you are lobbying for members of the "modern Salafi movement," like this little crony here , Dervish is complaining about the FMN forum users—then Kenneth Peterson5 complains about the Black-white group that likes to post in Sandjak cities—then boldgull19 complains about Dervish (my apologies to him, if he cares, for mentioning it). Yet none of them can point to a single instance where my moderation personally inflicted injustice upon them! How is that possible?

That's all I have to say, and I am definitely stepping out of this thread, unless one of the admins decides to step in. You all feel free to continue in unison... as far as I'm concerned, I'm done with this topic. I'm just sorry that Jack Wood43 hasn't joined in yet to tell me I'm a homosexual, just so the group feels complete.. 👋

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Ego complaint. in Feedback & Suggestions · Dec 21, 2008

ruggedwolf said:Ooh, housewife, it's a shame you aren't more ambitious—you'd make a great psychoanalyst.
You could actually have a real career out of it.
Regarding what you said above—which was pretty blunt, if I do say so myself—I’d tell you that I know someone just like you, but unlike you, every single word I type here is weighed and scrutinized under a microscope. If you ever feel what it's like when both friends and strangers start coming after you, you might understand.

Anyway, instead of trying to "be a woman" for a second, just try being a human being (and a human includes both men and women), and apologize to Sunnah for those harsh words you threw at her. Apologize clearly, unequivocally, and directly—don't leave it to us to play guessing games trying to find your "hidden" apologies here. Come on, show some consistency so maybe I can learn how to be consistent from you, housewife.
After that, we can talk.☕

Why
are you still publicly picking fights?
The moderator literally asked us to stop,
told Dervish to quit spamming the thread.
I was being true to myself and respecting the house rules of someone else's "home," so I followed instructions and sent you a private message, but you didn't even reply?
Again! I'm telling you, stop trying to shield Sunnah just so you can leave an opening for more arguing!

Please, stop speaking for other people. Both Sunnah and I are mature enough to think for ourselves.

recognizes my supposedly hidden apologies/QUOTE]
Once again, you're assuming something was aimed at you when it totally wasn't!

If I have to say "I'm sorry" publicly just so you can end up being "right" while I'm "wrong"—and let me repeat this for the millionth time, I wasn't trying to be insulting, I was just stating my opinion directly—then I won't. I refuse to admit fault if it means being inconsistent with who I am!
Stop debating things that were settled ages ago. This whole thing has devolved into a personal vendetta and ego trips, and it’s honestly starting to feel pretty indecent.
I "won't" apologize to Sunnah in the way that you (and maybe she expects) want me to, but I will act like a decent person and try to "request" in a peaceful tone that all further arguing about "who's wrong, who's right, who said what" just stops.
(If you feel like we really need to keep talking, let's take it to private messages.)
Peace
All the best
P.S.
Halal, Derv, I know I stepped over the line by posting on your thread again...

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Ego complaint. in Feedback & Suggestions · Dec 20, 2008

Tyler Scott3 said:rowdyhawk10.
Using that relentless "Monty Python" style logic, Dervish is actually trying to convince us in this thread that verse 4:141 proves some kind of "falling out of Islam." It’s obvious to any sane person that the verse in no way — not even in the most abstract possible combinations — refers to a Muslim woman marrying a non-Muslim. Even Monty Python couldn't make a stretch that ridiculous. But apparently, that's where FMN and Dervish are headed.

For the first graders here:

Let me know when you and ruggedwolf finally wrap your heads around what's written there.

P.S. The blue text is a link you need to click, then read the text that pops up. Thx.

And stop spamming my thread. This whole thing is just a display of how incompetent moderators Nicole James and rowdyhawk10 are.
rowdyhawk10 can't grasp the text in the link, and Nicole James is biased—she knows it too, but she's just out there acting like she's got college duties to attend to...

There's nowhere left for us to actually speak our minds, so I'm done. That's it.

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Ego complaint. in Feedback & Suggestions · Dec 20, 2008

ruggedwolf said:Seriously, whose words were "heated"? Mine? Where?
I mean, did you even read the thread and see who was actually acting un-Islamic? You want to know what un-Islamic behavior looks like? It's acting all arrogant and condescending, putting yourself above everyone else as if you hold some sinless moral high ground, pointing fingers at other people's sins, shaming them, trying to cast them out of Islam in the name of God, spitting on their faith, mocking and belittling people, and threatening them with hellfire—all while claiming to be a Muslim! Who gives you that authority? Who gives anyone the right to decide where someone else belongs? Only God knows what's in our hearts and who is truly a believer; He is the one who judges. I wouldn't dare try to expose someone else's sins, nor would I presume to judge who is a Muslim and who isn't! And yes, I am standing firm in my views, whether you like it or not. I have every right to them. I didn't insult anyone there—it was actually the exact opposite! Are you now going to take away my right to express myself too? You find my stance shameful, yet you don't find all those insults shameful? Unbelievable.

P.S. Forgive me if I don't consider you any more competent than the leadership of the American Islamic Community when it comes to this or any other matter, so your claim that I'm "persisting" in something that is only partially true really falls flat.

I followed the moderator's advice and sent you a private message
but you didn't reply
so I guess I'll just address you here instead
Try to be consistent with yourself for once
Don't cling so desperately to your own "wisdom" just because you can't control your ego
Try being more of a woman (the way God intended us to be) and less of a... (honestly, there's only one word for it, but I better shut up before the mods ban me. Plus, people will just say, "Oh look, she thinks she's such a devout Muslim, yet she talks like that")
Well, they'll see who she really is without me even saying it, I bet
Such an "ambitious" lady!

Wishing you all the best!!!!

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Ego complaint. in Feedback & Suggestions · Dec 20, 2008

Kate Phillips40 said:Yeah, that’s pretty interesting.
But honestly, I think you’d feel just as much "sadness" if I had personally written those 172,000 posts. Look at all the other users here who have posted thousands of times—doing way more work than dozens of other Americans combined—yet you aren't "mourning" them the same way, right?🤷

And regarding your little call-out about responsibility when you say:

"11. And about insulting Scott Nguyen2, Kate Phillips40, and the rest of this fan club, of course they won't say a word. It's important to step on rowdyhawk10 just to cover up Dervish's insult to you: "

-that was strictly a Dervish situation, which is why I'm not boycotting anything here. But if you're personally curious about my take on it, and why I didn't say anything regarding that unfortunate situation and the improper behavior from a woman like ruggedwolf, I think it's pointless to even comment on it.

If scholars have clearly stated that something like that (an interfaith marriage involving a Muslim woman) is forbidden, and there are arguments straight from the Islamic Science, is it really standard practice for a Muslim woman to argue so aggressively with brothers on a forum like this? It's not certain, and you're playing the "tough guy" whenever you want at the expense of Islam, acting like you can face God while I supposedly can't, rowdyhawk10—even if it were my own sister writing it. If someone persists in a heavy sin that is undeniably forbidden, they inevitably reach a point where they leave the faith. That's clear to any educated Muslim. There's a reason people say:

“To err is human, but to persist in error is the work of the devil.”

Don't try to claim I'm targeting ruggedwolf directly, because she didn't explicitly say she was in an interfaith marriage or anything. I am strictly talking about anyone who would stubbornly stick to something they know is a major sin and is forbidden by the consensus of the scholars.

I'm also not defending the harsh words that user received from that other lady (a housewife, I think), because it would have been much better if her sister had sent her a private message with good intentions to explain that this isn't how a Muslim sister behaves—stubbornly arguing with so many brothers just to cause chaos and stir up anger. She didn't just insist on making trouble over this point; she tried to do the same thing with other topics on the Islam 114 thread. Honestly, I stopped reading her posts after that.

The fact that you support these outbursts tells me you don't actually care about discussing Islam correctly here. If people want to accept it, fine; if not, they can leave—it's better that way for them.

If I were in ruggedwolf's shoes, I wouldn't be getting banned for 15 days just to come back and keep rambling. I'd be too embarrassed to ever show my face on this Reddit again.

Well, you caught me on a technicality, so I'll tell you.😉

Also, I'm not making excuses for the harsh words she received from that one user (a housewife, I think), because it would have been much better if that sister had just sent her a private message with good intentions to explain that this isn't how an American sister should act—stubbornly picking fights with so many brothers just to cause total chaos and provoke anger/QUOTE]

Man... listen to all this harsh talk
Why is it that nobody actually reads the context of what I was talking about? Instead, everyone just immediately "latches on" to one specific word—pulling it right out of the sentence—and stubbornly tries to label it as me being insulting
Look, if I did offend someone (assuming my posts are somehow "wrong"), it’s only because they clearly saw themselves reflected in the "sharpness" of what I wrote
So, what, I was supposed to play nice and engage in some polite little back-and-forth with ruggedwolf just to drag myself down into the exact kind of argument she's fishing for?
ruggedwolf acted all "defensive," when really, I'm just trying to carve out my own space for a real debate
Honestly, a smart person doesn't need much convincing!
And an apology will definitely be coming for anyone who realizes the message was meant for them!

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