Posts by steeleagle77

Jeffrey Ramos4 said:There are people out there who actually care. We don't just want to plug into something to hit a dopamine peak; we want to earn that feeling through real-world experience, in a world that isn't just a collection of one-hit wonders. If everyone just hooked themselves up to a machine, we'd all just be living some scripted life of illusion. No thanks. Besides, someone would still be outside the machine, programming everything, pulling the strings... exerting total control over what those people inside are experiencing. It’s all an illusion. And while they’re busy chasing that artificial hedonism, everyone else will be left dealing with the reality of sickness, hunger, war, and all that...

Well, obviously pleasure helps survival and people naturally gravitate toward satisfaction rather than pain, but that doesn't mean anyone is willing to ditch struggle and pain entirely.

👍

Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their own delusions 🤣 but I couldn't help noticing your post implies people are rational actors who weigh every decision through scientific scrutiny.
Look, even we professionals—psychologists and psychiatrists alike—are riddled with cognitive biases. No one is immune. Rationality is the exception, not the rule. Humans act on instinct, emotion, and affect... rationality is just a footnote.
Why? Simply put, evolution favors cognitive biases because they serve the interests of selfish genes. These biases persist as long as the benefit outweighs the cost. For instance, believing you are superior to others is actually quite useful; it drives you to climb the social ladder, which ultimately benefits your genetic legacy...

ruggedraven36 said:Sure, people have all kinds of motivations, and even more kinds of people. You only have to look at history to see how priorities shift—what people were willing to die for a century ago doesn't carry much weight today, and vice versa. At the end of the day, seeking satisfaction is a universal driver, but it's entirely relative. Just stating that humans generally chase gratification isn't some deep ethical revelation; it's just a fact of life.

I maintain that we subconsciously seek gratification, making it an indirect motivator.
Back at university, I actually learned from sociology professors (!) — a field of social deductive pseudoscience that misleads more than it clarifies — that human motives, goals, and values are inherently driven and shaped by a form of self-interest. Usually, it isn't even conscious. At the time, I viewed sociology through a quasi-religious lens, so I was surprised when the discipline shifted toward accepting evolutionary psychology and reductionist frameworks.

I’m curious what you would even say to them then?

Of course, they eventually ruined that too with concepts like "altruistic suicide" and other outdated nonsense that I knew was just a bunch of bullshit from the start. That was ages ago... maybe things have changed since then.

Interesting. While that isn't how I operate, one could more or less agree with this...
For me, every goal I pursue is driven by a desire for satisfaction. It’s fascinating how little people realize their own pursuit of personal gratification when they're fighting for some "sacred" cause. ruggedbadger2 already pointed out an example involving those nuns...

ruggedraven36 said:You got any other goals worth chasing besides just pure pleasure?

Are you implying there's a goal that doesn't lead to satisfaction?

ruggedbadger2 said:If I recall correctly, according to Nozick, the person stays in the pod for their whole life.

That last paragraph is pretty much irrelevant to the topic. I'm not sure how you pulled some optimistic or transhumanist stance from this experiment? The guy was trying to debunk hedonism by explaining why most people wouldn't step into the pod in the first place.

I was actually responding to Jeffrey Ramos4's point about "reality, limitations, and progress."

It reminds me of my own mindset about a decade ago, when I was naively obsessed with the idea of "purity and progress"... 🙂

edit
but then I watched 🤣Dr. Strangelove
...

Jeffrey Ramos4 said:Hedonism just isn't part of the human blueprint. No actual human being is wired to chase some ultimate, static state of pure pleasure. You see this reflected in psychoanalysis too. It’s similar to that old debate about whether you’d rather have the destination or the journey itself. Hedonism doesn't offer any real progress for humanity. I don't see any way to leverage it to build a community or true social cohesion. To me, hedonism feels incredibly selfish—it sits right at the bottom tier of human needs. Through his experiment, Nozick proved that people aren't just looking for a hit of dopamine; they want to actually live through the process. If we were all plugged into a machine that pumped out nothing but bliss, we’d get the sensation of satisfaction without anything else. And because we wouldn't be aware of what reality actually looks like, we'd be trapped in a bubble... which is the last thing any of us really wants.
Thanks, but I'll pass on the machine. 🙂

Who fuckin' cares? It was stated that one only experiences "the final sensation of pleasure and nothing else."
If you don't feel the limitation, who cares if it exists?

Now, the scenario doesn't specify if you're stuck in that pod (lol) forever or just for a stint before walking back out to face the consequences. If it's temporary, I see the point. If it's for life... then I don't.
Nozick could have easily used "drugs" instead of a "machine" for his example.

People are already drowning in cognitive biases, believing whatever suits them. There's no fixing that today. Any optimistic view of "humanity" or "progress" seems incredibly naive to me. Everything will eventually burn out anyway...

Perhaps they've finally come to terms with their true nature.

Z... isn't sex just too little of a "creative" purpose for you?
you don't enjoy the thrusting?