Posts by Susan James

Larry Walker24 said:plus those days when you could just scrape by in Germany using nothing but Spanish or English are long gone. Either you pick up German or you can kiss it goodbye

Since public education covers language training, including German, professionals can move over there without any major stress.🙏 🙏 🙏

It might actually be a good idea to make sure we get some solid German basics during our time in high school.

mellowskipper said:Of course I don't think that—just as our own experiences show us that even "real" math professors sometimes struggle to explain things clearly.
She’s just relieved, I suppose; I'd say she finally feels like someone normal and decent is in charge.
As for that bit about the 5-to-7-year-olds... I think it's probably better if I just stay quiet on that one.

Did any of you ever have an amazing teacher who would organize extra math sessions for the whole class back in 6th or 7th grade because everyone had gaps in their knowledge?
Or rather, you guys had five math periods a week, right?

rowdypanther12 said:Honestly, I can't even wrap my head around how an eight-year-old would handle a schedule like that.
Especially for the kids already taking computer science, religion, or a second language—their school day is basically full already.
Are they really expected to stay at school until 6 PM?

And don't even get me started on high school.

I mean, sure, homework happens, but how are you supposed to actually study in a noisy classroom sitting in those hard, uncomfortable plastic chairs?
It’s not that I’m against progress, but this plan feels about as realistic as someone promising dragons will fly by and carry the kids to school on their backs.

I guess they'll just buy them ergonomic office chairs then. 🤣

The idea of having childcare available while parents work isn't inherently bad, and it could help kids get everything done during school hours. But after third grade, it starts losing its purpose, and by fourth grade, it feels totally pointless. Especially for the kids who play sports, take music lessons, or just pick up concepts faster than others... there's no way schools, given the current space and staffing levels, can offer enough variety to keep kids busy until 3 PM or 6 PM while still letting them have a life outside of school.

Instead of pouring money into this nonsense, they should have used it to implement a meaningful, mandatory preschool program. That way, kids across the entire US would enter kindergarten with the same foundation and the skills needed to succeed from day one.
In the year before they start formal schooling, kids really need about 400-500 hours of prep. Right now, it's organized so haphazardly. For example, in places like New York City, kids might show up twice a week for two hours, barely eating lunch with other children. They do some worksheets, but those aren't standardized—they just depend on whether the teacher is feeling creative or helpful that day. Most educators claim this was forced on them and they aren't equipped for it. Instead of throwing money at a "full-day" project (just trying to copy models from Finland), they should have invested in a "pre-K grade" to ensure every kid gets a fair shot at the starting line.

I am all for innovation, but this is just useless. And it's not even new; we practically had this back in the '80s, just without grades and with different uniforms.
I actually like the idea of increasing teacher pay, but what does that matter if some kids will be bored out of their minds (and getting scolded for fidgeting), while others find the workload too heavy, especially in specialized subjects? Why keep them in school just for the sake of keeping them there, maybe hoping they'll eventually learn something? And all this just so we can match the hourly rates in Europe or wherever else?

urbantinker8 said:At a typical large American high school, besides English, the main focus might be German or French, and they often run bilingual programs where instruction happens in English, German, or French during specific grades.
In another school, it might be German or French too, with bilingual tracks for those two; I’m not entirely certain, though, but I suspect English isn't necessarily the first choice for everyone there. That used to be the case, at least, but I don't know if English has since pushed its way to the front.

As for your other question: yeah, that's doable. They can just split the group into beginner and advanced tracks, where at the exact same period, one group handles the basics while the other moves on to the advanced stuff. It seems pretty straightforward and actually quite efficient.👍

Frustrated by how many clicks it takes to find actual information, I decided to dive in and see which specific languages are supported under what they call "Program A, B, and C." Here’s what I managed to dig up:
5. Program A features a dual-language track, where students pursue advanced studies in both English and German simultaneously.
I’m looking into applying to the MIT program.
navodi: We’re excited to announce that we are now offering German as a second foreign language! This is a full continuing program designed to take you from the basics all the way to fluency.

I honestly think it’s a fantastic idea to make those language tracks specialized. It would be even better if they offered extra credit points during the admissions process—regardless of where the students originally learned the language, as long as they're choosing it as their major.

The GPP at 18 says this:

The kids in class 1-A are split up a bit; some are in the French bilingual program while others are following the German track.
The curriculum is set up so that while everyone is learning a second language, all our students are focusing on English. However, a specific group from class 1-B is currently working through their studies.
In our district, we’ve structured things so that English serves as the primary foreign language. For those students who start with German as their second foreign language, they actually join a separate group within the class to complete their studies.
In my experience, there's a bit of a split in how we approach languages. For some classes, German takes center stage as the primary foreign language, with English following as the second. However, in our 1.c group, the students actually dive into English right away as their very first foreign language.
When you look at how we study languages, it’s interesting to see how they get categorized. For instance, when picking up a second foreign language, things usually split into two paths: the Italian track and the French track. It's a bit like how you might approach learning music—some people start with piano basics while others dive straight into theory. In my experience, having those distinct starting points really helps set the foundation.
In my homeroom class, everyone is taking English as their primary foreign language, while Spanish serves as the second elective.
Starting out.

The 16th grade is looking pretty good! They’ve got English integrated into all the different departments now, and they're offering a ton of language options. They have electives available in German, French, and Italian, plus a bilingual program focused on English. It's such a great setup.

The way they write is honestly a bit chaotic. They’re completely bilingual, mixing English, German, and French all at once, and they offer advanced courses in every single one of those languages using all sorts of different combinations.

Michelle Nelson4 said:I’m not entirely convinced that’s how it’s going to shake out. If that's the case, PE stays exactly where it is, while Computer Science might actually see a reduction in hours—especially since it was already capped at two hours a week whether you were taking it as a required course or an elective.

The one silver lining, I suppose, is getting at least two hours of dedicated "Science" that isn't lumped in with Social Studies. I’ve mentioned this before, but it really needs to happen—instead of this disjointed mess where they jump from history to local geography to animal adaptations, all wrapped up in those cluttered curriculum guides from the Department of Education.

Yeah, I think it’s a great move that they finally decided to split them up.
It seems like the full-day schedule usually carries over into the subject-specific lessons too. I noticed something similar last semester when I was trying to balance my specialized coursework with the standard daily routine—it definitely makes for a long day! 😲
I noticed they’ve beefed up the math curriculum—I wonder if they actually hired a specialist just to oversee those changes? It looks like they also bumped up the HDP, which I assume is standard procedure for them.🥱)

Where on earth did this leak from? 😕 😲

So, religious studies is still stuck at two hours a week, yet they think one hour of digital literacy is enough 🙏
and they obviously just scrapped that whole critical thinking nonsense

Here’s the full list of programs:

Stuyvesant High School

Bronx Science

Brooklyn Tech

Nike

Lawrence Tech

Lucien Vranjanin

(I noticed Lucien Vranjanin also offers a B track, while Nike has options for B or C)

The others all focus on two languages.

edit:

The link I posted for Bronx Science isn't working correctly; it should be this one instead. I accidentally clicked on the school's general curriculum page when I meant to go to the specific admissions and programs section.
It looks like the school gives plenty of choices for students who aren't interested in picking up a second language.

Michelle Nelson4 said:Not quite.
Unlike you, I actually took a bit more time to look into this properly this year, mostly because my kid was asking me about it.
Public high schools regularly offer programs that don't include a second foreign language, so it’s definitely NOT a requirement in "all" high schools.☕

If you take another look at what I wrote:

It’s basically just a condensed version with only one language, featuring an advanced math track with 6 or 7 hours a week during the final two years, along with extra computer science and math. Only MIT and Others offer programs that include two foreign languages.

Michelle Nelson4 said:That’s certainly one way to look at it.
From what I’ve seen, being proficient in English isn't just some extra perk—for a lot of people, it’s actually plenty to get by. Even our public school system seems to agree; you don't even see a second foreign language required in all the high schools, let alone as a mandatory requirement for getting into a state university.

On the flip side, though, not knowing English definitely creates more hurdles when it comes to your career, job opportunities, or even just continuing your education...

The debate about choosing a second language in high school always pops up.
Let me clarify:
Every high school requires two foreign languages. Period.
The only exceptions are the specialized tracks, like the ones focused heavily on math (with 6 or 7 hours a week in the final two years) or the advanced computer science and math programs. Only Conor McGregor and Others follow those specific tracks; everyone else follows the standard curriculum with two languages.
I think Toledo might only require one language because they offer intensive chemistry and biology tracks, plus some other subjects you won't find at other schools, though I'd have to double-check.

English is almost always the first foreign language (honestly, I’d love for someone to point out a high school where any other language is the primary one, since that's what carries the most credit hours). Even kids who studied English as their second language in middle school end up picking it as their first choice in high school (maybe there are a couple of outliers like Lincoln High or Westside that offer French or German lectures).

The second language depends entirely on what the school offers, and whether it’s introductory or advanced level really just comes down to what students select during enrollment—basically, which type of student applies and gets accepted.
As far as I know, you still can't force someone to sign up for an advanced language course, even if they have proficiency listed on their transcript.

@frupy, is a school allowed to form an advanced language class if only 8 or 17 candidates meet the requirements, while distributing the rest of the students into other classes?

Anthony Ward6 said:Generally speaking, all high schools require two foreign languages, including the STEM ones; the only real difference is how they schedule the classes.

Standard high schools usually require two foreign languages (one for 3 hours a week and the other for 2).
Language academies require two foreign languages as well, but with more intensity—usually 4 hours for one and 3 for the other, or sometimes 4 hours a week right from freshman year.
STEM-focused tracks vary depending on whether they focus on advanced math or computer science, but they always require at least one language.
If the student isn't taking advanced math or computer science, then they end up with two foreign languages, typically 2 hours each per week.

The specific languages students can choose for their primary or secondary requirements depend on what faculty members with permanent contracts specialize in. Because of this, you'll see quite a bit of variation between different schools.

Some schools even offer elective courses, which means you can pick up additional languages if you're interested.

urbantinker8 said:I’m honestly not sure if there’s an official federal registry or some kind of database listing schools where the primary language isn't English. But those institutions definitely exist, and I really hope we see more of them popping up in the future.
It’s a bit unfortunate that we seem to be starting from such different premises here. It feels like everyone else (both in this thread and in the real world, I suppose) is hyper-focused on nothing but GPA and taking the path of least resistance, whereas what I’m actually talking about is the mastery of two distinct languages. In my opinion, being truly bilingual is infinitely more vital for the average person navigating today's world than being able to solve linear equations, understanding limits, redox reactions, or vectors—not to mention memorizing the dates of every major battle in history, recognizing Bach fugues, or knowing how to perform a fantastic leap from a standstill.
To be honest, I couldn't care less about a grade on a transcript. I'm talking about actual knowledge. But then again, I am fully aware of the era we're living in, so I realize that this whole perspective of mine probably isn't anything groundbreaking to you all.

Why do you think everyone is so fixated on grades?
It's not because I'm one of those people, but I truly believe that a parent who genuinely cares about their child's learning will choose a specialized language academy over just picking an elective at a local public school.
From schools lowering standards just to prevent kids from dropping out (which people have been openly discussing here), to the issues with afternoon shifts, or how everything was exclusively online during the pandemic (which was questionable at best)... plus, if we already know the vibe of a classroom—like if certain students' behavior slows down the whole lesson—it makes more sense to look for a different group or a different school elsewhere if possible, even if it means paying extra... kind of like how we pay for private healthcare services. 🤷
(The idea that a school should provide everything is nice in theory, but it's just hard to pull off in reality)

If that weren't the case, why would private tutoring and language courses even exist?
And then there's this bizarre situation: a kid who actually knows and loves a language, and wants to study it in High School, can't take advanced classes if it's not officially on their transcript—they're forced into beginner levels instead. Meanwhile, the kids who *do* have it on their transcripts are expected to jump straight into advanced levels regardless of their actual skill level when they get to High School.

And if a certain generation of kids enters with just enough points to scrape by, but didn't study the language in Middle School, preventing an advanced class from forming, the solution seems to be shoving them into a different language class 😕
just so they don't sit there bored in class, or letting them waste a whole year staring at the clock because they got stuck in a generation that had to start from scratch.

Michelle Nelson4 said:Since some schools require a second language even if a student has zero interest in it—and honestly, I could have easily navigated my entire life without ever knowing a lick of German—it makes perfect sense that they’d opt for an introductory level. If you're forced to take a course that counts toward your GPA, why not pick the one that makes life a little easier? Maybe they also know that the teacher for the last five years has been handing out A's like candy just to fill the schedule, regardless of actual proficiency. Or perhaps their knowledge isn't bad, but they've simply hit a wall and don't want to deal with that specific language anymore. It's enough.

Personally, I would be the first person to support a kid who, after years of studying, decides they aren't going to kill themselves over advanced grammar and a million vocabulary words in a language that isn't even their native tongue. If there's an alternative like a beginner course available, let them take it.

They'll still graduate with some foundational knowledge, and if they ever change their mind later on, there are always plenty of community college courses or private language academies out there. And if they really don't care? Well, they've got English, and they've got Google Translate.😁

Signed.
The reality is that school language offerings are often based on what the staff is certified in and how to fit everything into a standard bell schedule, so kids don't really have much of a choice (even if they call it an "elective").
By forcing those who already have a language on their transcript into advanced classes, you end up with a mix in the classroom: students who are totally lost because they were given easy grades just so the school could keep its class numbers up, mixed with beginners who might have actually studied the language at home or have a native speaker in the family 😬—kids who will just sit there yawning and coasting to an easy A.

urbantinker8 said:Which specific school are you even referring to?
A lot of American high schools require two mandatory foreign languages. (And thanks a lot for that, because without foreign languages, we're all just totally unremarkable peasants, right?)
So, it isn't really an elective.
And, I mean, schools are slowly starting to realize this, so if you already studied a second language in middle school, maybe you should stick with it, rather than just picking something easy at the start just to secure a guaranteed A.
That's probably one of the weakest arguments I've ever heard.

Is there a list somewhere of high schools that offer German as a primary language?
Basically, if kids have been learning German since first grade—either because their parents chose it or the district assigned it (hard to say which)—can they continue those studies through high school?

Assuming it's not one of those specialized language academies in Chicago.
Maybe something more vocational like a 🤔

urbantinker8 said:I suppose kids might want to gamify their schoolwork, but they’re just children, after all, so I guess they tend to care more about the grade on the paper than actually absorbing the material.
though parents probably ought to be a bit more discerning about that approach.☕

thankfully, various educational seminars have been highlighting this specific issue where students struggle to truly grasp a second language even after five years of study, and I'm hopeful that some sort of standard will be implemented soon to address it.🎉

That approach would actually make sense if learning a second language provided extra credit for school admissions—something that gives those continuing their studies a real edge over everyone else. Forcing kids into advanced tracks feels wrong; I think the best move is what Michelle Nelson4 and Sarah Hall53 are suggesting: simply reducing the number of kids required to take a second language in elementary school.

I truly believe we should give kids a real reason to stick with a language. Maybe offer extra points for a certificate from a private language academy, or include it as an elective credit on their transcripts. Even having them take an entrance exam to earn bonus points for advanced placement would create a meaningful advantage over the crowd of students sitting right at that 78-80% grade threshold.

I remember an instance where the German teacher's schedule was the deciding factor. It just happened to coincide with a generation of students who didn't prioritize German. Or perhaps they just couldn't justify increasing the hours for the French or Spanish teachers, depending on how you look at it.
In any case, there was some specific logic used to fill those first 28 spots in the French class, leaving everyone else out. Learning a language from 4th through 8th grade was a tough spot because there weren't enough students who had stuck with it to sustain the higher levels, yet priority was given to those who hadn't studied it at all. To me, that doesn't make much sense when there were plenty of interested students (and by the way, this was a group where both languages only started being taught in 4th grade). It’s especially strange because in that German class, you had students who had been studying German since 4th grade starting all over again, alongside students who had been studying French—yet everyone was forced into German... it just feels unfair. As I mentioned, it likely came down to the German teacher's availability (or maybe they just didn't want to overload the French teacher; I don't want to sound like I'm taking sides here...).

We shouldn't forget that elective options are limited by what the school can actually provide. Those choices are shaped by the specific credentials and certifications held by the staff on their diplomas.🤷
I'm not saying whether that's good or bad; it's just the reality of the situation. I honestly don't know how it could work any other way, since schools can't fulfill every single wish, and it's probably better if kids choose schools based on the languages actually offered... even if it means a slightly longer commute.

hiddendriver34 said:I don't think it works quite like that anymore. Sure, you can try to pick whatever path you want, but if you've spent four or five years grinding through advanced Spanish and it's right there on your transcript, you aren't exactly going to end up stuck in an introductory class.

It really is a shame, because someone might be genuinely interested in continuing with a language, but they miss the cutoff by just a point or two.
It would be amazing if the admissions process gave credit for a second language if the student wants to keep studying it—especially if those extra points help them reach the threshold for a specific program (particularly in high schools where everything comes down to tiny fractions of a point). Honestly, you have to absolutely love a language to want to stick with it through all that. 😬

And honestly, sometimes starting in a beginner class is actually a blessing. About ten years ago, I knew a girl who really wanted to continue with French, but since there wasn't enough interest to form an advanced track, they placed her in introductory German instead. They figured it wouldn't be fair to put someone with French experience into a total beginner class, but I really hope that kind of practice is becoming a thing of the past. I remember how much she struggled, sitting there trying to learn a language she had zero interest in.

Susan Martin4 said:These are just some preschool exercises. A few parents were basically saying, "No thanks," when the school asked if they could run them.

I told my son we don't need to bother since he’s doing private tutoring outside of school anyway. My daughter goes to the sessions too, though she also has her own private help. 😁

Honestly, all these parental permissions drive me crazy. It feels like they ask us for permission for every single little thing.
But look, if you write up a formal recommendation showing a child needs speech therapy and the parent refuses, you just notify the local school district administration. If it's something necessary that can be handled during school hours and the parent says no, you just follow the official protocol.

Carl Bishop2 said:And if they just choose to ignore it—well, then nobody loses a thing.

Actually, it does affect people. If a teacher sees—and truly knows—that a parent is ignoring or neglecting a child's health needs, they have a responsibility to report that neglect to Child Protective Services.
It’s just that there is so much paperwork involved that most people would rather not rock the boat.

School nurses, during routine physicals, are very diligent about reporting to the state when a kid hasn't stayed up to date on their vaccinations (and not every parent gets through that process without some friction, which is totally fine). We really should see more of that same effort regarding mental health. When they see a child walk in, they can tell a lot by their condition—some kids come from homes with zero socialization or developmental issues, while others might have attended preschool and seen a speech therapist but then missed all their follow-up treatments.

It’s one thing to complain that schools lack speech therapists (and honestly, many do), or that the waitlists are endless (which, let's face it, they are), but where specialists *are* available, there shouldn't be any excuses.
A child who enters school completely unprepared isn't the only one who suffers; it slows down the entire classroom. Teachers struggle to manage them, especially since they're often juggling four or five different instructors, and why is this happening? Because a parent insists everything is fine. But it's not the parent's job to make that assessment.
Professionals spend years in training specifically so they can recognize these signs.

Richard Morris43 said:You honestly wouldn't believe it, but there are actually parents out there who flat-out deny their kid is struggling with reading or writing. Like, they just refuse to see it. In our district, we have a speech therapist right there at the elementary school, and the teacher—straight up from the start of the second semester—began referring kids over to them. I’m talking about first graders here, which is wild if you think about it. Some of these parents went absolutely ballistic, acting like it was some kind of personal insult, all because their kids are technically "good students." As if being a straight-A student somehow makes you immune to learning disabilities, right? What even is that logic?

Susan Martin4 said:Honestly, even in our local preschools, they won't let kids get speech therapy if it's offered. It’s just one more thing that makes sense to no one. I can't say I'm surprised anymore by any of this.

If a parent is told their child needs to see a speech therapist, there really isn't much point in overthinking it or stressing out. It’s just one of those things you have to do. You get the evaluation done, and then you make sure you stay consistent with the treatment sessions. It’s all about giving the kid the best shot at catching up.
If a parent ignores medical advice—especially when that care is physically accessible and free—it really crosses the line into medical neglect. I remember a friend of mine once who struggled to get their toddler to see a pediatrician despite having full coverage through her employer, and it was such a stressful situation for everyone involved. At the end of the day, if the resources are right there and available at no cost, ignoring them just isn't okay.
There are actually specific protocols in place for preschools and elementary schools if a child isn't able to attend their scheduled treatments.

Of course, you can't just find these guidelines posted around the hallways or handed out casually. It’s more formal than that—you really need to call the parents in for an official meeting and make sure everything is properly documented in the minutes.

hiddendriver34 said:I’m talking about those students who have to grind through endless tutoring sessions just to scrape by with an A. In my book, those kids aren't really cut out for elite prep schools. An A isn't some participation trophy you hand out to everyone, and you can't realistically expect a teacher to spoon-feed the entire class enough material to hit that top mark. Thinking otherwise is just plain crazy.

If a teacher has students who need extra help just to grasp the basics, then frankly, I don't think they're doing their job right.

I hear you. I know plenty of kids whose parents are constantly working with them behind the scenes, and honestly, those kids definitely aren't ready for a place like Phillips Academy.
When I say "constantly working with them," I don't just mean the time before the pandemic hit. I'm talking about the massive amount of college-educated people I know who have spent countless hours sitting with their kids, forcing them to focus, stay motivated, and actually get stuff done. Kids who truly belong in a top-tier prep school can usually master the material just by showing up consistently—well, they could, until they got buried under all those massive take-home projects. If there's a gap left by a mediocre teacher, these kids can often bridge it themselves if they realize what's happening (or when they get a better instructor), but it's still a struggle. It’s much easier when they have a parent or an older sibling stepping in, or if they occasionally get some private tutoring (this whole summer example is a perfect illustration of that).

hiddendriver34 said:I mean, come on—are we really saying great teachers are expected to teach every single kid to a perfect five? 😁

They really need to be taught.
It's not just about getting that perfect score, either—it’s really more about the overall grade.

They really need to learn the fundamentals if they want to tackle more advanced topics later on. Math is so cumulative—everything builds on what you learned the year before. Plus, having a solid grasp of math is absolutely essential for fields like computer science, physics, and chemistry. I mean, how can a kid expect to master complex subjects down the road if they've got huge gaps in their foundation?
When you have a kid like that in class, they aren't just slowing themselves down—they’re dragging the whole group along with them.

When it comes to language learning, one bad grade can feel like a total gut punch. It’s more than just seeing a low number on a report card; it really starts to chip away at your drive to keep going. Once that momentum stalls, staying motivated becomes the real uphill battle.