Posts by Susan James

rowdypanther12 said:I’ve decided that for the sake of everyone else, I won't insist on her sitting out in the hallway.
I'll just give her some headphones so she can listen to music on her phone while she tackles her homework or studies.

We haven't heard anything official from the school district yet, but if it were up to me, I'd advocate for the community and suggest scheduling it during zero period, first, second, fourth, fifth, and so on.
From a scheduling standpoint, it's totally doable.
If it turns out to be too much of a headache, then it's an elective—let them take the course online.
If we can manage to combine classes for something like Spanish, there's no reason why Religious Studies couldn't be offered online, even if the classes aren't being merged.

Hey everyone, let's dive into some deeper discussions and philosophical dilemmas here, but please save the heavy religious and political debates for those specific subreddits.
Since we're on Reddit, let's keep it focused on the student experience—specifically regarding religious education classes. I’m curious about how this affects you or your kids at school. Whether it’s the teachers, the other staff, the students themselves, or the parents, I want to hear the good and the bad from both the kids taking the class and those who opt out.
I’m open to all kinds of stories, but honestly, amidst all the endless debates about the Vatican or money in the North America, the practical questions often get lost. I want to talk about things like scheduling first and last periods, study halls, parental consent forms, and how students are treated in school depending on whether they attend these classes or not.

And speaking of current events, check this out:

If classrooms aren't supposed to be mixed, and if these specialized subjects are held right in the middle of the school day, where are the students who don't participate supposed to go? Unless they just skip the first and last periods entirely?

Nancy Kelly31 said:According to the recent mandate issued by the American bishops, participation in both school-based religious education classes and parish catechism programs is now strictly required before one can receive the sacraments.

You can find the official decree here:

It is my understanding that any local priest who chooses to permit children to receive these sacraments without having attended their required religious instruction is essentially violating canon law and acting in direct defiance of his bishop’s authority, which necessitates a formal report and subsequent disciplinary action to correct such improper conduct...

That's an interesting point 🍿
If they actually manage to get religious education removed from schools entirely, then every single priest would technically be in violation of those rules. 🤔

swiftstag14 said:It’s hard to believe eight months have slipped by since the last update. I’m bumping this thread.
I wanted to reach out and see what your experiences have been like—specifically regarding your children—after opting them out of religious education classes. I'm curious about what reasons you gave for the withdrawal, and more importantly, how the kids actually handled the social dynamic when most, if not all, of their classmates are staying in the program while they aren't.

My child was never enrolled to begin with, but since most kids attend, she handled being the exception perfectly fine. Honestly, she actually enjoyed having less on her plate.
Especially with remote learning becoming more common, those in the religious studies track often ended up with more homework (which was frequently quite heavy).

You can provide whatever reason you feel comfortable giving, as long as it's submitted before the deadline.
You can literally just write that they no longer wish to participate.
There is always a chance the school might try to push back or question you—asking why or what didn't work for you. Personally, I think that's a legitimate request for feedback. I feel like they should ask German teachers the same thing when kids opt out of electives, or any other elective subject. It shouldn't be about pressuring parents; it's just a way to get feedback and wrap things up for a student who has been part of a program for a year or two. Unfortunately, I've heard from people that instead of getting a simple, polite conversation, it turns into an attempt to guilt-trip you.

Carol Johnson4 said:This kid claims he’s going to be a programmer, so why bother learning to write? He also thinks mastering English is enough since he’ll be working with foreigners, so why worry about his native American language? 😁

Setting aside the fact that nobody knows what skills will actually matter to him in 25 years... there's also the issue of how much handwriting development affects overall cognitive growth.

Isn't it a problem when a seventh grader takes an exam and the teacher can't even read the answers?

I’d love to dive into what neuroscience has to say about this, but I'm a bit short on time right now.

One thing many twelve or thirteen-year-olds dreaming of tech careers don't realize is that most successful programmers today—who are already in their mid-thirties—actually started out as self-taught enthusiasts.🥳
Plus, in many parts of the world, there's a massive surge of self-taught developers who are still being taught to write by hand in school, despite having constant access to screens and keyboards. It’s actually pretty interesting to see how they learn different scripts, considering the world isn't just limited to the Latin alphabet.

And if you look at many of those self-taught pros, besides being fluent in reading and writing various scripts, they often grew up playing a musical instrument and practicing sheet music... all while spending plenty of time climbing trees and playing outside.
Nowadays, kids have mental math classes, robotics, and mandatory computer science in school.🤣🤣🤣

Michelle Nelson4 said:Exactly. Kids should probably start at age five and a half in a preparatory program, gently learning print letters and numbers up to 20, then move into the standard curriculum once they hit six and a half.

Honestly, I don't see much of a crisis regarding messy handwriting. Let's face it—about 99% of our adult lives involve typing on a laptop rather than using a pen. Some people will always fight that reality and try to downplay how little handwriting matters these days... but soon enough, we'll likely see college exams being taken entirely on computers (or just selecting A/B/C/D options), which solves the whole issue of professors not being able to decipher a student's scrawl. Of course, there will be plenty of complaining and hand-wringing about how "this is all sooo bad" and how everything needs to be done exactly the way it was back in our day.

I honestly think they should just start with 5 or maybe 5.5. It would make things so much smoother from the get-go!
It’s about more than just keeping seven-year-olds from getting bored in class—though let's be honest, once they hit that age, school can start feeling a bit like a repetitive grind if there isn't enough stimulation. It also tackles the massive shortage of early childhood educators and the fact that so many neighborhoods in the US don't have any preschools or even pre-K programs available at all.

I honestly feel a little bit of regret about the whole situation. Looking back, I really think my kid got more out of preschool this year than they will from three years of elementary school—and that’s not even touching on the language development side of things.

Honestly, *Idiocracy* is such a fantastic movie. It’s especially spot-on for people who seem to crave spending 99% of their waking hours staring at a screen.

rowdypanther12 said:It wasn't overcrowded at all; kids have been mastering writing skills for years without any issues 😁 if they struggle with something, it's usually reading, but that doesn't mean we should scrap writing altogether 😂
I’d much rather they skip relearning the number four during spring than get rid of writing 😁

Carol Johnson4 said:Or just nature—life in the fall. 🙄

Exactly.
The fall weather is totally messed up anyway; I'm still wearing sandals while my parents saw cherry blossoms blooming in their garden yesterday.
So, the timing of the curriculum is off regardless.

feralmoose32 said:My little one just started first grade, and they actually gave us a presentation about how the curriculum is pivoting heavily toward reading—apparently, they realized kids were struggling to actually comprehend what they were looking at on the page
That’s even why they decided to pull back on teaching formal handwriting during the first-grade year itself...
Right now, the only real writing they’re doing is in their English class; for everything else, it seems like they're just frantically coloring and doodling away 🤣

I remember my mom used to nag me about all the coloring we did in first grade, and she wasn't exactly the patient type!
I can't even imagine what the classrooms look like nowadays. 🙂

I saw a little kid's math homework the other day—just basic shapes like rectangles, triangles, and circles 🤣(honestly, we were doing that kind of stuff in preschool without even needing worksheets!)

Anyway, how exactly is reading comprehension now being developed 🥳 🕺
if they weren't really focusing on it before? 🤔
Do parents still need to buy those standard workbooks and NATO guides 🤔 or have they moved entirely to tablets where everything is digital?

Sarah Hall53 said:Linguistics nerds practically staged a full-blown revolution when they heard textbooks wouldn't be workbooks anymore and the number of supplemental workbooks was getting capped.
And honestly? I’m glad we did—my current fifth graders write at the speed of a snail on summer vacation. If they didn't have those workbooks, they might manage to copy and solve, like, one single problem in a forty-five minute period. :/

edit:
I mean, why even have space to write down answers in the first place? It's because the textbooks for every grade except first and fifth haven't changed in forever. Up until this year, those books were perfectly normal workbooks. They would still be working just fine if the government wasn't footing the bill for them.

Aha. Though I think Michelle Nelson4 was actually talking about the 5th grade 🤔

But it's awesome that you guys fought for it! 👍

Sarah Hall53 said:The textbooks for the younger grades—plus all those foreign language workbooks—aren't actually returned at the end of the year, so kids are more than welcome to scribble whatever they want in them.
I honestly find it mind-boggling that any teacher outside of a language department would even think about asking students to write their answers directly in the book, let alone try to grade them that way.

Michelle Nelson4 said:It’s funny how math textbooks are usually designed with specific little boxes or designated spaces left open for your answers. In my experience, though, my professors don't bother filling those in, nor do they even bother copying the problems down—they just jot down the problem number and dive straight into the solution. So, I guess whether you actually transcribe the full question or not really comes down to how much your professor likes things tidy. Honestly, it would be a lot more logical if they stopped including all those "fill in the blank" or "color this part" type of busywork questions, too. I can't tell if it's just my luck, or if every textbook is like this except for those Alfin ones.

@Sarah Hall53, I honestly find it pretty wild that the textbook author actually carved out a specific space for an answer, only to then turn around and forbid both the students and the teacher from actually using it.
Honestly, I feel like this is just patronizing the kids. It puts teachers in such a tough spot where they’re forced to either tell everyone to just copy the answers or settle for one-word responses just to get through the lesson.

It’s not really about practicing handwriting or trying to get used to writing in an old-fashioned script like we used to do back in the day; it's more about the actual process of transcribing. I’m not quite sure what you mean by that—it looks like a bit of a typo or maybe a fragment! If you were trying to share something specific or ask a question, feel free to drop it again. I'm happy to chat once I know what's on your mind!
I honestly think it would make so much more sense if they just dictated the assignments to them and had them write everything down in their notebooks. Right now, they’re spending all this energy just copying things down from the board, which feels like such a waste of time. If we're being real, this feels more like a test of handwriting or language skills than actual math—and since you can already sign up for those language electives anyway, why bother? It would just be much more efficient for everyone involved.

Sarah Hall53 said:mystery: why even bother buying a textbook? honestly, you could just tell your kid to write directly in it—then at the end of the school year, you claim it’s "damaged" or "unusable" for the next grade, which somehow justifies getting 40% of your money back... and then you just keep the book for yourself. or, you know, return it and let it end up in some dusty old recycling bin.
it's way cheaper than actually buying a brand-new one just to have something else sitting in a storage bin somewhere.

🤣🤣🤣

Just another gem from the education reform
So, imagine giving a kid a textbook with instructions not to write in it—even though there are clearly designated spaces meant for writing—but then the teacher asks them to write in it anyway (not specifically this case, just an example). Then, when it’s time to turn it back in, the parent gets hit with a fee for 40% of the market price... seriously? 😂
In my book, it should either be free or it shouldn't.
A parent should probably pay for a book that has torn pages, highlighted text, or scribbled notes in the margins, but not for one where they simply filled in the blank spaces provided for answers.
By the way, what happens if a student writes an answer and the teacher marks it with a checkmark or a comment? Is it just the parent footing the bill, or does the teacher share the cost too?
How is that even defined? Since the teacher was technically "writing" in the book as well.🤔

Michelle Nelson4 said:Input and output units? She breezed through those. She even figured out on her own that an iPad screen functions as both an input and output device 😁 It’s definitely useful knowledge to have.

But honestly, once you start looking at the questions in Red Bull and hearing what they claim is the "correct" answer, it can be pretty disheartening. We just end up telling ourselves, "In Computer Science class, the right answer is simply whatever the teacher decided was right—just don't let it get to you." 😁 I felt the exact same way back in college; I eventually just gave up on certain topics altogether. There's such a massive disconnect where Computer Science in our school system seems to be living in its own little bubble, while real-world tech is moving in a completely different direction... To start with, they aren't even speaking the same language 🤣

That said, I don't think the subject is inherently bad. Sure, there’s plenty of nonsense and outdated material mixed in, but there are some genuinely smart concepts too. Plus, it’s finally a mandatory part of the curriculum now, which is about what should have happened twenty years ago.

😕 😕

Wait a second... regardless of all the fluff and useless content, you're saying it's a good thing it became mandatory? 😕
When you consider that about 90% of the "smart stuff" is actually geared toward kids who already have advanced logical reasoning skills, it just doesn't add up. Between the poorly written textbooks and the fact that they can't seem to find—or properly pay—qualified professors, it’s a mess.

This was definitely one of the worst moves by the Secretary of Education (and let's be honest, that's a pretty long list of failures), serving as a textbook example of how to perform damage control for the public.

Another "innovation" popping up in our schools is this elective "digital literacy" for the younger grades. It’s not inherently bad to introduce kids to tech before we start demanding electronic presentations from them, but that's really only an option if you happen to have an after-school program teacher with extra tech training, or if you have the means to drive your child to a "better equipped" school district.🧐
(It isn't exactly groundbreaking, either; most parents could teach this themselves, or a kid could just pick it up on their own. But it gives us this nice little illusion that the school system is actually teaching them something useful.)

rowdypanther12 said:Luckily, we don't deal with that kind of nonsense here. The teacher just tells anyone who's interested to make something with the kids, then everyone just dumps their glue sticks on the table and spends the whole day making a mess. 😁
Why don't they just eat the glue sticks and take them home?

Gluttony—one of the seven deadly sins, right?
It’s probably a good idea to have a priest bless things whenever there's an opportunity. 🧐

You aren't going to find a better display of hypocrisy than that. 🎉 🎉 🎉

Kids learn best by watching and following examples. It’s basically life school—learning through hands-on experience. 🧐
The only shame is that only a small number of people actually realize what's really going on at those events.

urbantinker8 said:I don't think anyone actually claimed that it couldn't be done, per se.
It just won't happen, I guess.

edit: in Washington, D.C. (just so there isn't any confusion again)

frupy, my question is whether "there are places where they combine kids from different grades for religious education if there are fewer than 15 per class"

How could you possibly know the answer to that? Do you work at the City Hall or something? Even then, it's totally possible for data to be fudged to make it look like 90% of the country is Catholic, making it seem like 90% of kids attend religious ed in every single classroom.

That’s exactly why this forum exists—it's one of those corners of the internet where someone can actually share what's happening at my kid's school (which is also my workplace). I'm just asking if they combined classes or not when there were fewer than 15 kids signed up.

northerntiger9 said:It works—of course it works. In my district, we have three classes of about 18 to 20 students each. More than half don't bother showing up for religion class, so they just bundle the ones who actually attend into a single session. Usually, it’s two classes combined—though there's one class where most of the kids are solo attendees.

rowdypanther12 said:Seattle🙏 🙏

😍

so, it's possible to 🙂

swiftraven17 said:Religious studies shouldn't even be part of the standard school schedule. If they're going to force it in, fine... but it should be either the very first period or the last one before after-school programs start. Nothing else makes sense.

We can start picking apart who benefits from what right now... if we really want to go there.

It’s never going to work perfectly for everyone.
Personally, my spouse and I find it much easier when there isn't a first-period class so we can all sleep in a little longer. My kid actually prefers having a free period where they can just hang out and do their own thing.🤣

However, looking at kids who stay for after-school programs—especially in schools that run on split shifts (where the religious ed teacher has to show up for both morning and afternoon sessions)—we could consider scheduling it during the after-school block. The after-school supervisor is already being paid to watch them, whether it's one kid or forty, so they could lead creative activities or take the group outside, rather than expecting the classroom teacher to stick around unpaid for supervision.
That would solve the issue of first-period classes being a struggle for elementary students who aren't early risers.

And while we're talking about after-school care, those teachers are working five straight hours in the sun sometimes, balancing a ton of different tasks and responsibilities, often with up to 40 students in a group. That's a huge contrast to religious studies, which stays on the schedule even if there's only one student signed up for the hour.
I'd love to know if there's any precedent for combining students from different grade levels for these classes if there are fewer than 15 per grade (to lighten the teacher's load), similar to how they combine kids for after-school programs.
Or even how they group kids for elective language classes like Spanish.

post about delays

this part is my favorite:
Quincy:

'Parents most often say their child isn't ready for school, yet they can't quite put their finger on why.'

I honestly don't see the point of these articles. It feels like they just write catchy headlines because they can't figure out how to fill those first-grade classrooms—especially with all these extra teachers we have lying around—so they just decide we won't be granting any more deferrals.
What if a kid just isn't feeling the whole "writing letters" thing in first grade? Since the curriculum is being simplified anyway, it really feels like nothing makes sense this year...

post about delays

this one is my favorite:
Quincy:

'Most parents say their child just isn't ready for school yet, but they can't really put their finger on why.'

I don't see the point of articles like this, other than having a catchy headline. They can't even fill the first-grade classes because there's such a massive shortage of teachers—we're talking dozens of vacancies—so, yeah, we aren't exactly handing out deferrals right now.
I mean, if a kid doesn't want to spend all their time practicing handwriting in first grade, the curriculum is actually being simplified anyway. Honestly, the way things are going this year, it just doesn't make sense...

Sarah Hall53 said:All the textbooks are free this year. But honestly, when it comes to the workbooks... nobody has any clue what’s actually going to happen for the first and fifth grades—especially with that weird rule about limiting required materials to 100 items or $67. It’s just a mess.
My colleagues over in the history and geography departments are absolutely pulling their hair out right now—specifically because of those two atlases, $67. Since they can't list them as mandatory, they're stuck. I mean, how are students supposed to do any actual critical thinking or creative projects without an atlas? It just doesn't make sense...

What about the elective courses?
(that whole political standoff between the Mayor and the Secretary of Education🤔)

And the fact that they won't let them have atlases just shows they're banking entirely on Google Maps—which basically means assuming every kid has a tablet and high-speed internet 24/7.🤣

Michelle Nelson4 said:Basically, looking at these ten points, there isn't a single meaningful change regarding teacher training itself. Everything else, naturally, needs a complete overhaul. My personal favorite has to be that first point about exclusion and segregation—it’s actually quite funny how they don't mention those "hundreds of online articles" claiming that "everyone" is giving up on inclusion. And honestly, I'll pass on all the empty rhetoric about kids staring at screens and becoming mindless. Like I mentioned before, most people seem to think a chalkboard and some chalk are the absolute peak of technology for children, even though those very same people would demand laptops, projectors, and free high-speed Wi-Fi at school for their own personal use (point 5). Apparently, for these kids, that's just too much advanced tech; their little brains can't handle it, especially while they're still in elementary school. Though, reading through all these supposed struggles with mastering a simple tablet, I feel like I'm just scrolling through a generic newsfeed...

As I was saying, it's basically the National Institutes of Health level of expectations applied to a bare minimum...

Why do you think chalk and boards are enough for those who are against tablets?
I'm actually against tablets myself. However, I don't think the talk about them "dulling" kids is just empty rhetoric. There really are studies linking tech usage to issues with concentration and fine motor skills in children. So, pushing this into schools without a clear objective, could definitely be harmful. I'm mostly thinking of the kids whose parents handed them a device the moment they were born and didn't bother teaching them how to learn in other ways—kids who can't tie their shoelaces or hold a pencil correctly, and who struggle just to write with a pen. Sure, those might seem like old-fashioned methods, but those skills have real benefits once you master them.

And honestly, it's hard to see any real benefit if you look at the reasons listed below regarding students forgetting pencils or notebooks at home. Just imagine one student forgets their tablet, another hasn't charged it, and the whole class period is wasted arguing about it while the lesson ends up being assigned as homework.
When you have this kind of attitude toward students, introducing smartboards and tablets won't do anything special to improve teaching or education. In fact, from a disciplinary standpoint, it might just highlight how helpless the teachers are.

On top of all that, we still have a huge amount of paper textbooks to lug around (and by the way, will all the books be free in the end, or just for certain subjects?)

Oh, and since we're discussing tablets and laptops in certain countries, it would be great if you could describe how much hands-on learning those kids actually get during class (like field trips, collaborative learning, experiments, or projects/posters that aren't just done by parents) and how much physical activity they get compared to the kids in our schools.