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What's the point of required reading? in Students & Teens · Jan 10, 2019

urbantinker8 said:I have a nagging feeling it isn't an error, though.
It seems like they might be using those stories under the guise of, I don't know, teaching them how to identify basic prose or fairy tale structures.🕺
Honestly, if that’s all they stick to, well, by the time these kids graduate high school, the absolute peak of their literary understanding might just be *Pinocchio*.🙏
Maybe, if we're lucky, they'll eventually evolve toward something like *The Little Prince* once they hit college.

So what? They're just checking to see if the kids read it back in elementary school.🤣

I think they can still get something out of Hlapica—like realizing that Master Bob, where they're doing their internships, isn't allowed to lay a hand on them (since they have that three-year practical training program), but Regoc 🤔

What's the point of required reading? in Students & Teens · Jan 10, 2019

rowdypanther12 said:It’s not really about the facts you can just Google; it’s about exposing kids to as many different experiences and perspectives as possible. Why? Because they need that breadth to actually understand how the world works—cause and effect—so they aren't just reading headlines
and honestly, our school system isn't hitting the mark, but not because it asks too much. It's because it doesn't ask nearly enough.
Students end up being way too passive, just coasting through by memorizing things for a test and then forgetting them three days later. The system basically lets them get away with it.
I see a massive difference between my own time in school and now. A lot of things have improved; for instance, the required reading in middle school feels much more age-appropriate and is taught in a way that actually holds your interest.
There’s a lot more presentations, posters, reports, and actual student participation to help soak up knowledge.
Some things have gone downhill, though. The textbooks are a disaster. They tried so hard to avoid being dry that they stripped out all the clear, essential info. Everything looks colorful and pretty, but the actual substance is either buried or missing entirely. 😁
So, yeah, I think the system needs to change. But we shouldn't be cutting material or making things easier—it should be the opposite. We need to start demanding more from them.

signature 👍
I’d just add one thing: literature should be taught the way some schools or certain teachers do it—right there in class, interactively. We shouldn't be having them write notes at home about things like 😬 the setting or the time period, which they can easily just copy-paste or ask their parents for. That totally devalues the book itself and kills the whole point of reading.

We really need to expose kids to a wide variety of topics and introduce them to all kinds of different authors.

What's the point of required reading? in Students & Teens · Jan 10, 2019

I’ve been thinking about this "manchild" label lately. It’s such a common term we throw around, isn't it? I remember back in college, I had a roommate who honestly acted like he was still in middle school—totally dependent on everyone else to handle his laundry and basic errands. It wasn't meant to be mean, but it really highlighted how some people just refuse to grow up. In my experience, it usually comes down to a lack of accountability. We all go through those phases where we want to hide from reality, but there's a big difference between having a lazy weekend and being someone who refuses to take responsibility for their own life. It's less about age and more about that willingness to step up when things get tough. Of course, we've all had our moments of being a bit immature, but finding that balance is what truly matters. kaže:
For years, there’s been this running assumption that students just aren't interested in reading the required books, or that the material feels totally disconnected from their actual lives. It’s a common complaint I hear from parents and teachers alike. However, as part of the new "school of hard knocks" reforms, we’re finally seeing some real shifts in how literature is taught in our classrooms.

There’s a big shift happening in how we handle required reading. We're moving toward shorter lists of mandatory books, and the best part is that students and teachers actually get to help pick some of the titles themselves. Instead of just forcing kids to sit down and write an essay about a book they might not care about, the focus is shifting toward real conversation. It's all about discussing the work together rather than just checking a box with a written assignment.

After some deep dives into recent professional discussions, it’s becoming pretty clear where we're headed with our reading lists. Both students and teachers are asking for more modern titles and a bit more freedom to choose what they actually want to dive into. It feels like a breath of fresh air!

High schoolers will be diving into at least five classic literary works per grade level. On top of those staples, teachers get to pick five more books, and students will actually have a say by choosing one themselves. For the middle school years—grades 5 through 8—the curriculum includes two mandatory titles, six selections made by the teachers, and one book that the students get to pick out on their own.

Where did this text come from?

It looks like you might have forgotten to include the list! Go ahead and paste it whenever you're ready, and I'll get right to work on it for you. Elementary schools.

I'm sorry, it looks like your message cut off! It seems like you were starting to say "this is a list for..." If you have a list you want me to work on or a specific topic you'd like me to write about, just send it over. I'm ready whenever you are! High schools can be such an interesting experience, aren't they? I was thinking about my own time in high school recently—it really feels like that's where you first get a taste of the real world. It’s not just about the textbooks and the exams; it’s more like a little preview of life itself. You learn how to navigate different personalities, manage your time, and figure out who you actually want to be. For some people, those four years are a total whirlwind, while for others, it's basically a crash course in the school of hard knocks. Either way, it definitely shapes you!

I've been thinking quite a bit lately about vocational training versus traditional academic routes. It’s such an interesting debate, isn't it? I remember back when I was first starting out, I had a mentor who always said that while textbooks give you the foundation, nothing beats the school of hard knocks when it comes to actual hands-on experience. There's a certain kind of pride that comes with mastering a specific trade or technical skill. Whether it's specialized tech work or skilled manufacturing, those practical paths offer a directness that sometimes gets lost in four-year degree programs. I’ve met so many incredibly talented people who bypassed the standard university track to dive straight into specialized training, and honestly, their expertise is often more sharp and immediate than those who spent years strictly in lecture halls. It really just comes down to what kind of life you want to build. I’m not quite sure what you mean by that! If you were trying to share something specific or ask a question, feel free to expand on it. I’m all ears!

It’s been three years now.

What exactly are they adding to the reading lists at the school of hard knocks these days?

By the way, I was looking at the reading list for the first year of the three-year program, and I noticed names like Seghert Hlapic or Regoc on there. Are those actually supposed to be the required books for the third or fourth grade of elementary school? I’m really hoping that’s just a typo in the system.

What's the point of required reading? in Students & Teens · Jan 10, 2019

Why don't you guys head over to the expat forums to debate who landed what job outside of America? This reading assignment has absolutely nothing to do with that.

What's the point of required reading? in Students & Teens · Jan 10, 2019

Peter Doyle2 said:Look, Nosorog, I’m not the one drafting the curriculum here 🤣—I stepped away from that whole situation because I was unhappy with it; I just didn't see my kids being represented in there. I’ve mostly been speaking from my own personal experience with it, and I’ve even tried to be careful not to bring up how things look on my end (except when answering a direct question).
But honestly, the fact remains that the world is becoming a global village. So many companies have turned into massive mega-corporations hiring people from all over the globe, and certain skills are becoming universally sought after everywhere—yet the US Department of Education is lagging way, way behind, which just ends up producing an incompetent workforce. I truly hope this debate about changing the reading list isn't just wasting our time on this forum; though, given how every single attempt at change has gone so far, I might just be wrong about that.

Not at all. It’s actually parents who shape the system, and they're increasingly demanding less substance for their kids, whether they realize it or not.

I really dislike how education is being watered down. Between my work travels and meeting people from different backgrounds, I’ve seen enough to know that people from the Mediterranean region tend to be some of the most highly educated folks out there.
They’re the ones who know how to turn frustration into a challenge.

Personally, I’m not a fan of the American schooling model either (it feels like a mountain of choices that lead to nothing).
I’d much rather see the Japanese approach 😬
(though, maybe instead of just adding more books to the reading list, we should give kids a bit more math 🎉).

What's the point of required reading? in Students & Teens · Jan 10, 2019

Peter Doyle2 said:So we went from "you don't have to" to "you absolutely have to, damn it" for the sake of a grade, I guess.😉
Here’s a challenge for you, then: try getting a seventeen-year-old interested in Fyodor Dostoevsky without resorting to that dry, "you must do this" attitude.😉

Let's just agree to disagree, okay? I'm not really looking to go back and forth on this—we're clearly never going to see eye to eye😬 and since my kids aren't even being educated in the US, I'm not sure why I'm even weighing in on this topic at all.😬

I was actually wondering the same thing myself:😬 is the diaspora really the ones shaping our education system?🤔

Back when I was seventeen, I was actually interested in Dostoevsky. I went way beyond the required reading list—I actually set aside two whole weeks just to power through *The Idiot* and *The Brothers Karamazov* after finishing *Crime and Punishment*.

I had an amazing English teacher. Truly wonderful.
We had mandatory reading assignments that rotated every three or four weeks, and we’d dive into them through class discussions. We were expected to know them inside and out in case they popped up on a quiz or a test.
For the other books, she would assign seminars at the start of the school year. Students would present them one by one, and while we could quote them if we wanted to or had the time, there was no pressure to do so.
We covered over 30 books that way.

If a kid hasn't developed a love for reading by high school, then honestly, there isn't much left to do in high school.
If that "high school grind" makes someone who has been devouring books since they were eight years old hate reading, that’s not the fault of the reading list; it’s the fault of the teacher. You can learn something from any book if it's presented well. If it isn't, you won't learn a thing, even from the best masterpiece.

To get a child to actually love reading, it has to start in preschool, not through a list of assigned books. Trying to force kids into reading via a curriculum is a totally failed way to motivate them. The whole process of learning to read should focus on making the child love it and helping them understand the purpose behind the skill—actually comprehending what they read. That happens daily, through texts that are close to their interests and engaging, gradually increasing the complexity to expand their vocabulary and spark interest in different subjects.

I could probably go on about how uninteresting textbook passages are in elementary school, too, but I'll stay quiet. Besides, something like "My Father Sleeps with Angels" shouldn't even be on the shelves of children's literature, let alone on a required reading list—especially not as one of the three mandatory books for sixth graders if our goal is actually motivating kids to read.

What's the point of required reading? in Students & Teens · Jan 10, 2019

Hmm, I get the impression that they’re actually offering a selection of books now, and students get to choose—there are only one or two mandatory ones per year.
I noticed this when I was looking over the reading list for that war diary project.

My kid doesn't have a specific reading log to keep track of everything. They just work through all the titles during class.
I'm not entirely sure how the teacher handles the grading, but she gives grades during that period, so I assume she checks their comprehension through group discussions.
For those elective books, it seems like she picks them so everyone stays on the same page. At the end of the school year, they actually had a presentation session where the kids brought in a book of their own choice to pitch to the class—it was a bit of a chaotic attempt to get their peers interested in reading—which sounds a lot like what > mentioned.
The kids even put together a list of those books themselves, which turned into a fun summer reading challenge, and they even made a poster for it that hung up at the start of the new school year.
Of course, you have some parents who aren't fans of this style and grumble about it, but personally, I think it's a fantastic approach.

Back when I was in high school in the mid-nineties, we used to do oral exams for our third and fourth required readings. We were expected to know the fine details because we never knew which essay prompt might come up.
To me, that way of learning is so much better than the modern trend of just copying and pasting stuff from the internet or having parents jump in to help write the assignments.

So, all things considered, it really feels like nothing new is actually being introduced here.

School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens · Dec 26, 2018

Sarah Hall53 said:Honestly, it’d be way better if they just had twenty minutes of English four times a week.
And if they could actually group students by their skill level—or at least keep the groups small enough—it would make life so much easier. That way, you can actually manage differentiated instruction without losing your mind in those massive, mixed-ability classes.

👍
That would be absolutely wonderful!

School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens · Dec 26, 2018

Sarah Hall53 said:Look, I could totally just stick to the first few lessons like the textbook suggests, but honestly? My experience tells me that students grasp it way more easily if I weave in stuff from their other classes—like math, specifically. It’s that whole concept of interdisciplinary integration that the old professors used to preach about.
If people want to argue that it's too early to start learning a foreign language... well, hey, everyone’s entitled to their opinion, right? I could go on and on about all those psychologists who try to meddle in language teaching methodology, but I won't. I'm trying to be a decent human being here. 😬

That sounds like a great idea, and honestly, that’s how it should be done.
The problem is the massive gap in what kids already know when they walk in.
It really frustrates me when we're forced to wait to cover something like the number 6, when you might have a class of 16 students who already know their numbers up to 20 in English because they picked it up in preschool or at home. What's the point of delaying it?

In my opinion, it would be better to give them more Math and HP hours in first grade, then switch to three hours of English a week in second and third grade so they can actually learn properly.
(And don't worry, your total teaching hours won't decrease; you'll just end up with more paperwork!)

School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens · Dec 26, 2018

Sarah Hall53 said:Hey Luna, I honestly feel like the curriculum was supposed to go in stages—firstly, addition and subtraction up to 20, then moving on to numbers up to 100, and only once that's solid do they tackle the multiplication tables through 100.

The way the Republican Party textbooks don't align with any of the other subjects is just... tragic, really.
And even within my own subject, things were such a mess—for instance, we’d be working on numbers up to 10 in the second semester, yet by midterms, some kids hadn't even mastered writing the number six. 🙄 It means you end up having to overhaul half the textbook just to make sense of it all, and every single class for two months, you're stuck answering the same question: "Teacher, why did we skip those pages?"

See, this is a perfect example of why introducing foreign languages in schools early on is such a headache.
It clearly doesn't bother anyone at the preschool level if kids learn to count to ten in English within the first three lessons, but once they hit elementary school, teachers have to scramble with the curriculum just to prevent the language lessons from clashing with standard math material.
On top of that, I should point out that the early English learning programs in preschool are actually approved by the Department of Education. THE SAME department.
It probably wasn't the exact same official signing off on both, but it's coming from the same agency.

Regarding learning letters back in '85, my dad remembers we learned both print and cursive in first grade (I used to get tiny print and cursive mixed up all the time, like p/a/s/). Everything was taught in the second half of the year, and it actually moved faster than it does now 🤣, and the second semester felt shorter because it wasn't tied to any specific curriculum schedule, just one week after the next.

The first half of the year was mostly pre-writing exercises (which didn't happen at all when my sister was in school eight years later, and isn't happening with my daughter either—they jump straight to letters). We learned tons of rhymes, did constant drawing, and were getting ready for the big school milestones.

For math, we used counting sticks and an abacus.
I'm not sure if your kids have counting sticks; mine didn't (my dad mentioned they used to come in a kit with the books), but our teacher kept an abacus on her desk, and we practiced on it during after-school care.

Even though I see my daughter's textbook is full of drawings of apples and random things, I have to admit she didn't go to a top-tier preschool where they practiced pre-math skills using sticks and other hands-on objects. Plus, I don't really encourage her to help with grocery shopping or sorting items at home, which might be why she isn't grasping math quite as quickly in school. There are real reasons why using concrete objects is important before moving to paper and pencil. Looking at how school works now, it feels like some imaginary reform tossed out tactile learning and basically left it up to the parents to handle.

School nowadays is mostly just paper and pencil, and there's a push to replace all of that with tablets.

School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens · Dec 22, 2018

urbantinker8 said:Well, we definitely covered them in first grade.
Cursive was more like a third-grade thing.

I feel like this whole curriculum adjustment thing has swung way too far in one direction. It’s almost like we’re treating kids as if they’re all below average when it comes to capability.
And I suppose everyone just shrugs their shoulders and accepts it because... well, it's the path of least resistance, I guess. It feels easier to teach less and go slower rather than teaching more at a faster pace, regardless of how difficult or necessary the material actually is.
It isn't going to lead to actual reading comprehension, goodness knows. If anything, it might do the opposite. We'll likely end up with third graders who can recognize printed letters but still struggle immensely with handwriting, and their fine motor skills will probably suffer too. Instead of moving forward, they'll spend most of third or maybe even fourth grade just trying to patch up the gaps from what they should have mastered back in first.

Not everyone is going to just roll over and accept this.
I certainly won't.
I can see how much my child is slowing down with this kind of material, even though she isn't in one of those "reform" schools (even though they love to brag about being "innovative" 🙄)
I see how much it messes with her concentration; she’s constantly buzzing around or drawing comics even when they're supposed to be learning new things, mostly because she knows she can just catch up whenever she wants (usually right when the teacher calls on her because she hasn't been paying attention for the last ten minutes).
Don't even get me started on work habits.

That style of reform would only make sense if school started earlier than it does now.
Actually, it would make a lot of sense then, because it could include children who didn't go through a high-quality preschool program, kids who didn't get the chance to practice tying laces or developing fine motor skills, or children with speech delays that weren't caught or addressed during their preschool years.

There are critical windows for certain developmental milestones. Just like kids need to crawl, walk, and talk by a certain age, they also need to develop their fine motor skills.
Starting at 8 years old (especially with the delayed start) is way too late. Even if they spend a huge chunk of first grade just coloring—which I honestly don't think a kid like mine would handle well after five years in preschool.

School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens · Dec 21, 2018

Sarah Hall53 said:I was thinking—and please, feel free to correct me if my colleagues over at the local elementary school know better—that maybe we should move handwriting lessons to second grade. That way, we could spend more actual time in first grade focusing on reading comprehension instead. I don't know why people act like losing one extra hour of instruction is such a massive deal, honestly. It’s just... it happens so often where kids master the physical mechanics of reading the words, but then they're just rushing through their handwriting, while actually grasping what they've read stays stuck somewhere in limbo. The kids who are naturally gifted tend to figure out comprehension on their own, but the ones who struggle? They don't. And once they fall behind, it starts a domino effect—they hit math word problems, then science in third grade, and everything just collapses like a house of cards because we didn't prioritize understanding the text back in first grade.

Yeah, that’s exactly why.
I actually remember when we didn't really start cursive until second grade, and then moved on to other scripts in third.
I recall some of us being totally confused—like, why do we have to learn print and cursive at the same time now? We transitioned to the standard alphabet much slower back then.

To my fellow elementary school teachers... do you remember if we learned cursive in first or second grade back when we were kids?

Unfortunately, there are certain groups of parents (and I've heard experts say this too) who argue against teaching cursive entirely, claiming it's useless since everyone uses keyboards nowadays.
But I truly believe we need to teach cursive. It's great for fine motor skills, and it's fantastic for brain development. Practicing it makes a lot of sense.

School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens · Dec 21, 2018

Keith Barrett2 said:They actually have these whole other sets of books specifically for the experimental track. If I’m reading this right—and I might be totally off, my brain is fried today—the bulk of the actual content is all digital. The physical books look way thinner because they hand out tablets so the kids can actually get to the stuff they need to see.

I’m guessing the digital stuff is mostly visual anyway, like, you don't even really have to sit there and grind through reading it—but hey, I haven't actually seen it myself, so take my word with a massive grain of salt.

Honestly, I was pretty floored when I heard they’re only teaching printed letters. Apparently, they've covered about a third less material than the standard curriculum. Like you were saying, some kids nail those printed letters before they even hit kindergarten, and then you've got the average kid who eventually gets it in school, whether they struggle through it or not.

To me, it feels like this program would be great for that 10% of kids dealing with different learning hurdles, but I just don't see how it's supposed to push the kids who are already doing fine or even excelling.😕

The program might actually work better if school started at age five instead of six (not to mention the delays, where some kids don't even start until they're eight). As it stands, it just feels like a modified, watered-down version of the curriculum.
I don't quite get why they're slowing down math. Kids coming out of high-quality preschool programs develop such strong pre-math skills, and even kids who just have plenty of unstructured playtime should be able to handle addition and subtraction up to 20 within nine months of schooling without any trouble.
Maybe what's missing is that one hour of practice they lost ten years ago? Nowadays, parents are hesitant to sign their kids up for after-school tutoring, so it feels like everything has to be done at home. I worry that what we're seeing is just a trend toward simplifying things and collectively lowering our standards.

Personally, I’d love to see schools focus more on socialization and collaborative learning—and I mean making that happen in real life, not just as a buzzword on paper. I think the academic side should stay rigorous, just integrated with more modern teaching methods.

Teaching cursive in second grade makes sense to me, but everything else feels like it's just diluting a solid curriculum, which isn't going to end well in the long run.
And honestly, if I had to choose between spending seven years practicing handwriting versus typing on a tablet for every subject, I’m picking handwriting every single time.
It's just better for brain development.

School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens · Dec 21, 2018

Keith Barrett2 said:Look, on the flip side, a buddy of mine has a little one in first grade
She’s telling me they’re spending the entire school year just grinding through printed letters—standard public schools usually cover cursive too—and apparently, they’ve only even touched about 6 or 7 letters so far.🤔
Math is moving at a snail's pace, so I guess they just watered down the curriculum or something.
Science seems to be following the usual routine, though.
They’ve got computer class and English.
As for those tablets everyone talks about? When I saw her last week, they hadn't even handed them out yet, so at least for now, the kid is actually working on basic handwriting skills.

Hold on a second. Just... wait.
I need to take a deep breath here.

So science follows the regular curriculum, but is the first-grade social studies textbook actually designed for reading? Because if it is, it feels like it's meant for advanced readers—kids who can read fluently and breeze through workbooks—not beginners. Or did they switch to a new textbook that’s mostly pictures?

Could you please double-check that? Because if it's like what I'm thinking, then this situation is honestly pretty terrible.
Also, my other question is: what happens to the kids who already learned how to read and write in preschool? I don't mean kids under intense parental pressure, but those who just had fun with it and picked it up naturally. There are plenty of them!

It’s wonderful when schools take them to museums (real ones, not some cheap virtual nonsense), host social workshops, or practice fine motor skills in creative ways—you have no idea how vital that is for brain development. It's great when they make posters, practice presentations, and do genuine collaborative learning in groups (not just moving desks around for show). But if they’re just using a watered-down or "adjusted" curriculum for the whole class🤣, then we’re basically just collectively boring these kids. If we throw tablets into the mix on top of that, we’ll end up living in Idiocracy in about four years.

Student-teacher dynamics vs. parent-teacher dynamics in Students & Teens · Dec 14, 2018

Nicholas King said:If my memory serves me right—and it usually does—the parents of this kid are both educators. Now, everyone is busy judging them based on their parenting skills, but I guess nobody thinks to question how effective they actually are as teachers...

😍
Teachers have so many different roles to play. They essentially act as second parents to their students, which means they often don't have enough energy left over for their own kids 🍿

Dealing with the teenage years is a nightmare in Students & Teens · Nov 10, 2018

Nicholas King said:God, I absolutely loathe this kind of instant punishment approach to parenting.

Taking away a phone or any of those other heavy-handed, ridiculous tactics you're suggesting—it’s definitely going to destroy whatever scraps of a relationship are left at this point. This is just your textbook "as long as you're living under my roof, blah blah blah" parent archetype; people who clearly lack the intellectual capacity to establish authority through actual reasoning, so they resort to the good old-fashioned "might makes right" strategy. Honestly, I suppose even evolution had the grace to move past physical discipline—now we just have to take things away, impose sanctions, and try to crush their spirit through other means—even though, based on everything described here, the kid seems perfectly fine.

And where on earth did you get the notion that stripping a kid of their phone or using these other methods won't feel insulting to them?

To top it all off, one absolute gem after another: where exactly are you getting the idea that true adolescent rebellion doesn't even start until someone hits seventeen???

it's all over the internet🍿
and people are talking about it everywhere🐔

School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens · Oct 12, 2018

Robert Rodriguez9 said:🤣What can I even say about this?

🤣 Honestly, what can you even say?
It’s like someone absolutely had to make a profit off those tablets, right? 🤔

Seinfeld....

I guess they're running reruns on CBS these days just so anyone who didn't grow up watching Dunphy can finally catch up and get informed. 🍿

School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens · Oct 4, 2018

Sarah Hall53 said:Honestly, trying to track down my profile for an English-German swap is becoming a total nightmare—it’s almost impossible. It feels like everyone just assumes we have to split subjects up now because finding one single person willing to trade both languages is such a long shot. But, you know, when you leave the search open-ended without those restrictions... man, you get hit with way more requests. 😉

Well, of course you get more requests! That’s because those people usually already have a steady gig somewhere else and are just looking for something permanent on the side.
It's really not that surprising, honestly.

The only thing I don't get is why everyone assumes a permanent position is a total guarantee. In our field, they can cut your hours right at the start of every school year.
Especially if you're teaching an elective subject. Or if enrollment drops and a whole class gets consolidated, you might lose two or three hours of work every single year just because there aren't enough students.

School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens · Oct 2, 2018

🤣
I really believe we should make it possible for everyone to go back to school all the way until retirement 🧐
.
It’s easy enough to deal with the shortage of bakeries—you can just buy a bread maker or find a great recipe online. But the real crisis we're facing is the lack of skilled tradespeople. It honestly breaks my heart when I see kids who show genuine talent for becoming an auto mechanic or an electrician—maybe because they grew up watching a family member work—only to have that spark extinguished by this relentless pressure to be an academic overachiever. We push them toward a path they have zero interest or aptitude for, and it feels so counterproductive.
They start feeling that pressure in elementary school, and by the time they hit high school, they're already burnt out.

School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens · Oct 1, 2018

wanderingbadger44 said:It’s nothing new to see such condescending and ugly commentary directed at teachers, but it still hits a nerve whenever I come across something like this.

It’s as if anyone who graduates with a degree in linguistics, fine arts, or the social sciences is just a failure who couldn't hack it in anything else. It's hard to wrap my head around the idea that someone might actually prefer the nuances of music over coding, or find languages more captivating than chemistry.

But setting that aside, there's another angle I want to touch upon.

Since we are discussing student welfare, has anyone considered how a kid might end up enrolled in a three-year culinary program simply because they were pressured into it, even if they have zero passion for it? Then, once they hit adulthood and finally gain some clarity, they try to pivot into a fourth year to become a hospitality technician because they previously took geography and languages. And maybe they pass their SATs and head off to college...

In the end, that three-year culinary stint remains their highest level of achievement.
Well, since religious studies are staying on the curriculum, I suppose they could always study theology. 🕺

How did you go from being a history teacher to focusing on language studies? 🤔
From what I've been reading, they aren't planning on cutting those programs anytime soon. 🥳

I know you can finish a four-year program and move from retail to commerce, or go from a cook to a tourism technician, or a baker to a food tech specialist—there are all sorts of combinations. But that still doesn't justify keeping subjects around that could easily be covered within the standard middle school curriculum.

By the way, I hear very clear and unmistakable chatter from various circles regarding the different working conditions between three-year vocational schools and four-year ones, not to mention traditional high schools. Specifically, regarding the quality of instruction and what the kids "actually learn."
Let’s not kid ourselves; do you really think someone who visits houses twice a year to inspect chimneys cares about history? What would a chimney sweep or a glazier need to discuss with a homeowner about Napoleon or Matthias Corvinus while they're doing their job? 😕

Did it ever cross your mind that kids in those vocational schools are actually working at ages 14 or 15? Their training happens in the real world with real people, clocking in actual hours. The goal is to teach them how to work with their hands and earn a living through honest labor, not to sit around debating the past or memorizing piles of useless trivia. Or are we supposed to keep churning out contrarians who will argue about civil wars and political movements just because someone from a three-year program might decide to go to college one day?

We should be making these jobs accessible and interesting to these kids by focusing on practical skills, rather than forcing them to cram heaps of useless data at the end of the school year—especially when most tradespeople are already swamped with actual work.