Posts by Jamie Fowler2

rustyangler02 said:is it a "hard" or "soft" hit with the hammer... or does it depend on which head you're hitting... feels like I could get an answer based on actual experience here

depends on the head 😬

I'd love to stop playing philosopher and just hear something concrete from people who actually know more than me, but whatever...

George Martin70 said:Maybe they're out in the woods.
What even are salivary glands? I'm just some uneducated kid...
So, you gonna challenge Chen to some sparring or maybe some tui shou to settle once and for all whose style is better—his or Haova's?
But if you aren't training with Haova anymore, then you haven't exactly spent much time by his side...
Though I guess Justin Watson58 would probably say timing doesn't matter when you're climbing a mountain or something deep like that...

maybe they're on a mountain too. Got anything actually useful to add? At least give me your take on internal skills.

So, salivary glands are just the things that produce spit. 🙂

Do I really sound that aggressive? 😬 I'm always down to learn something new. And Chen's definitely gonna do tui shou with everyone in the class. It's a place for learning. I leave my ego at the door before hitting the gym and shove it in my bag. 😬 If you don't believe me, ask the instructor or Maximilian.

Anyway, I still want to see that Xing Yi of yours.

The whole Haova thing is just your obsession. No clue why.

Timing matters. And so does the mountain. 😬

George Martin70 said:What do you think of my avatar?

I haven't got a clue. Which theory would Hao even go for? Oh btw—are you, Hao, and anyone else from his crew hitting up Chen Xiaowang's seminar in Washington, D.C.? Or maybe he should just skip it so Hao doesn't accidentally injure him with all that massive knowledge...

The answer to your question is basically a counter-question: What makes what you're doing "internal," and what defines "internal" for someone like Hao?
And when it comes to generating power—isn't that where you actually see the gap between internal and external styles?

Your avatar is trash😬 but hopefully that doesn't mean you're burying your head in the sand.

As for Hao, I don't think he leans on any one specific theory, but he mostly brings up the one involving "hidden" movements.

Look, I’m gonna show up to that seminar just for the hell of it 😍 (maybe Mladen will swing by too and we can act young for a second). If it turns out to be as good as those ninjutsu seminars—Dejan is freaking legendary! 👍—then I'll be there every single time. I would've gone to Erleov's son's seminar too, but I was on call.

Honestly, I don't know what the big deal is regarding the difference between internal and external styles. With my Xing Yi, I'm stuck in the Ming Jin phase—basically working the "external" form, mostly focusing on the three external harmonies. I'm starting to catch glimpses of an Jin and that first internal harmony. Every now and then, a line from the Xing Yi manuals actually makes sense.

Is that truly "internal"? Who knows. But I'm trying to wrap my head around it. 😬

Generating power via dantien rotation isn't some exclusive club for internal styles. Chi gung does it, and so does chansujin—practitioners of White Crane and Ziranmen are known for it, and they aren't internal styles. Tingjin? The Shuai Jiao guys are better at that than the Taiji crowd... This whole power thing is a mess. How do you even tell where the force is coming from? It could just be gravity and musculoskeletal mechanics, right? Is it about which muscles are firing? Probably not. Maybe the difference between internal and external is just a matter of emphasis (the "feel")?

George Martin70 said:That damn Shoto.
Did you train under Hao? So you’re done learning now? Or did he just teach you everything there is to know?
I'm not gonna sit here and explain it to you—you gotta see it for yourself.
What exactly do you want me to say, about how I carry myself?
Exactly. Hao only teaches the basics—the absolute bare minimum, really. He doesn't know anything beyond that.

Isn't someone who masters a ton of different skills considered a scrub by your definition?😉

I used to go, but my schedule flipped and I couldn't make it regularly anymore... plus we kind of lost touch.

If you can't explain it, show me. If you can't show me, then... 😕

I want you to use fewer typos when you post🙂 but looks like you cleaned up your act over Christmas.

Look, you gotta start with the fundamentals, right?

Jerry Thompson said:you basically just described Morihei Ueshiba. Congrats 👍 🙂

you talking about the old man who’d snap a student's fingers if they didn't follow orders? The guy whose kiai could be heard from miles away? 😬 maybe exceptions prove the rule—just because he pulled it off doesn't mean anyone else can, right? Or am I tripping? Plus, look at the photos of him throwing atemi strikes and try telling me his aikido was "soft." Since we're getting all philosophical—the hardness I'm talking about isn't just tensing up muscles. Aikido doesn't really fit into those Chinese internal vs. external categories—maybe just because it isn't a Chinese art? Though some people claim it's linked to ba gua and yi quan...

It's an interesting question though, whether aikido counts as an internal art today in terms of developing ki... Toco? Hey, weigh in here 😬

jademarlin26 Jamie Fowler2 said:You can just let your opponent beat themselves up. Honestly, the best way to handle it is to slam them against the ground... 🙂

Aikido forums, huh?...

Try and take me down without using any force. (Without being at least a little aggressive or forcing your will... it’s impossible...)

Besides that—they really ought to show Mother Earth some love instead of trying to wreck her with all that brutal behavior... 😬

Time to get serious for a second...

I think Viper might be aiming for chi. You gotta say...

Having chi isn't some big deal. Everyone’s got it...
Feeling chi isn't some big deal. Everyone feels it...
Moving chi isn't some big deal. Everyone moves chi...
Being a decent human being... that's something else. Not everyone actually has the guts to pull it off.

Nah, I didn't make that up... 😬 I don't even know what chi is...

Jerry Thompson said:Unless you're actually trying to hurt the other guy. 😁 In which case, go for it.

P.S. Is this thread just for you two or what? If it's a private convo, a mod can just nuked this post. Thx! 😎

Nah, man... anyone's welcome to chime in and say what they think about all this.

(but you won't be able to stop them from landing a hit on you either... not ideal 😬 )

Peter Myers29 said:A curved blade cuts better because you're concentrating more pressure on a smaller surface area. A straight sword spreads that force out too much—so even if it’s just as sharp, it won't slice nearly as well as a curved one.

Even in Europe, they made straight swords with wavy edges specifically to fix that problem and get a better cut.

And here I was thinking flamberges were just for show... my bad. Someone should probably tell the museum staff to update their cold weapon guides... 🙂

Think it's better to start a new thread since this doesn't really fit in the Barca discussion

Bazooka said:Who's looking for a fight? I'm just asking a question nobody seems to have an answer to... though maybe we'll finally figure out what internal martial arts actually are by the end of this...

Bottom line—nobody on the planet is going to give you one single answer that satisfies everyone😬

Here are some possible answers I stumbled upon:

Sun Lu Tang wrote that the core of internal arts lies in naturally applying the principles of heaven and earth while developing pure, correct chi.

The BKF crowd claims internal arts are those that base strength on cultivating chi, the mind, achieving total relaxation, longevity, and meditation.

Jan Diepersloot argues that the defining feature of internal arts versus external methods is having little to no body movement.

Then there are those who say the main difference is using "soft" qigong.

Some people claim it’s all about using methods from Xi Sui Jing and Yi Jin Jing.

The term "internal martial arts" (Neijia) didn't even get popular until the 20th century anyway. If you'd asked an old-school master before then about internal vs. external styles, he probably would've thought you were talking about Chinese vs. non-Chinese techniques. The earliest verifiable mention of Neijia and Waijia in a martial arts context seems to date back to the 17th century.

Some argue that splitting internal and external styles is a mistake. I mean, every style has a "hard" and a "soft" side, right? You can't fight with nothing but softness—you won't be able to hurt anyone. And you can't fight with pure hardness—you wouldn't be able to move. Plus, every "external" style has an internal component (even something like Karate 😬). Concepts like power (li), intention/heart (yi), energy/breath (chi), and spirit (shen) aren't exclusive to the internal stuff.

If you're talking about nei jin ("internal" or "trained strength"), that's a different story... but external styles train nei jin too (like ting jin, which is arguably the most important part). And internal styles have wai jin because it'd be pretty useless not to have it.

Others say the difference is the fighting method. External styles control the opponent's movement; internal styles control (sense) their intention. That's a shaky argument though, because any halfway decent fighter can see or feel an opponent's intent. (Boxers, wrestlers...)

Got a specific answer in mind? Something more detailed? Meridian theory? The Five Elements? The Yellow River Map? I'm not touching the I Ching. 😬

Sent some straight-up questions to Alexander Long37—waiting on some actual answers now. And yeah, I kept it civil. 😬

George Martin70 said:Change or application. He wouldn't even take you. Ba gua is top-tier martial arts—the peak of Chinese combat development. Grandmaster Shoto Tanemura actually trains Ba gua.

Still waiting on an answer.

Hold up... Shoto Tanemura? You mean the guy who left Bunjikan back in '84?

If you’re just coming at me because I trained under Hao, then just say that. Tell me exactly what I’m doing wrong or what I’m saying that's so messed up.

I don't care about Ba gua. You claimed your Chinese instructor in New Orleans does Xing Yi. That's what I want to see. If he actually has any Wu De, he wouldn't be acting like you.

Go ahead—find one single post where I claim I'm training mystical stuff. 😛 Those hand movements (the five elements) Hao teaches are the absolute basics of Xing Yi. You can't understand the art without them. Don't take my word for it—go ask your guy.

George Martin70 said:Jet has zero connection to Ba Gwa—as far as I know, he just trained in long-fist kung fu.

🤣 absolute legend. You’d think someone would at least know a thing or two about the actors if they didn't know squat about martial arts... but nope. you don't even have that. 😉

Justin Watson58 said:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__wGJewQ-kc

...this is some decent Xing Yi, though still not pure Eight Palms technique...
...watch till the end—guy starts slow then hits normal speed...

If I'm not mistaken, that's Di Guoyong—the Hebei style master. Probably the most visible Xing Yi expert out there right now, maybe alongside Luo De Xiu.

The other two main Xing Yi styles (Shanxi and Henan) look pretty different from this one. One's way softer—the other is much more expansive and powerful.

Example of some damn good, orthodox Xing Yi (the Che family—basically falls under the Shanxi style, more or less)

Two core combat techniques (usually the first ones taught and practiced most):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sddeD...elated&search=

Hard combined form: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHl1FDpU5zA

Soft combined form:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHl1FDpU5zA

Justin Watson58 said:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3CJtAJg6FU

...yeah, alright, here—this is what... I call Baguazhang...

Really? Like, if you actually asked him how to use any of those moves in a fight, he probably couldn't tell you anything.

But honestly, nobody even knows what Baguazhang actually is anyway :P though it might be similar to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf0YtbzuvoI

Justin Watson58 said:...look, Jet Li talked a lot about Bagua in his movies, and I gotta admit—his execution is solid. That final scene in *The One* was basically a stylized version of the clash between Bagua and Xing Yi... which was clearly just the director’s way of selling some flashy action to the masses (sort of like an alternate reality movie where everything is exaggerated)...
...that stuff I saw on YouTube? Has absolutely NOTHING to do with actual Baguazhang...

Search for "BT's World of Baguazhang" on YouTube. It's actually worth a watch.

The movie is trash—honestly, most martial arts movies are total garbage 😬 Anyone who knows even a little bit about Chinese fighting history is gonna spot those random historical snippets they threw in... Side note though—during filming, Jet Li was moving through Bagua so fast the camera crew actually told him to slow down because he looked too unreal...😁

Justin Watson58 said:...hehehe, I can smell the deception...
...joke, tell me!...

there’s no deception here... Bagua was made by a guy named Bagua. And that's because real masters of Bagua make the sound "baaaaaa-gwaaaaaa" while they breathe 😬

but seriously. That one Baguazhang drill that actually matters? Walking in circles. Forget all the variations and extra stuff—just walking in circles is enough.

Justin Watson58 said:...which basically means I need some Baguazhang stuff for circular movements (like the 5 elements)... and... maybe some Xing Yi Quan for those straight-line strikes...

Look, there’s one drill for that—takes five minutes to learn. Grind it hard for two months, then just hit it for 10-30 minutes a day after that. It covers about 80% of what you're looking for...

Justin Watson58 said:...hey, I was wondering if anyone here could point me toward some Baguazhang practitioners in the States...
...having an address or a phone number would be huge...
...thanks in advance...

Just drop it while you still can. 😬

(Forgot to ask: why even bother with Baguazhang? The closest thing to an official school is probably over in Europe where Park Bok Nam runs occasional seminars. Unless you want to track down Kuzman—supposedly he teaches it too.)

ruggedfalcon2 said:nah, Wu Shu is just what people use as a catch-all for any fighting style—boxing, karate, whatever... like I said... it’s got nothing to do with Chinese styles specifically... Chinese people have never even used the term Wu Shu to describe their own martial arts!

Actually, yeah, they do use the term wu shu for their stuff. It's also a generic way to talk about combat techniques...

(John F. Kennedy, Guo E. Chinese Martial Arts Manuals. ISBN 1-55643-557-6 if you don't trust the locals)

so what, you were trying to say they didn't use the term kung fu either?

wrestling.