Posts by bluetinker54

Of course there's less manual labor involved. But if you actually want to see a decent return on that investment, you really need to be working with a much larger acreage. And, naturally, you’ll need the right kind of technology to make it all work.

rowdypilot19 said:Then why even grow wheat?

So, basically, you need someone to guarantee your buyback, set the price you want, provide the irrigation, give you the land for free, and bump up the subsidies.

It seems to me like it's always the same people complaining, every single year, it's a bad year. Honestly, it feels like it's just farmers complaining about everything.

Is someone forcing you to do this if it isn't profitable?

Back then, they had protection—government support, imports weren't easy, and technology wasn't where it is now.

Climate isn't a constant; it changes all the time.

You're starting with the nonsense too.

Not at all, it's always the same people complaining—the ones who expect the government to guarantee everything. Farmers, ranchers, and dairy producers.

Everyone else is doing fine, except maybe olive growers and vineyard owners; those folks in the coastal counties handle a good chunk of production.

No sane farmer (who is a professional and not just some middleman) plants crops in a monoculture. His late grandfather taught him that.

Is it just me, or does that last sentence sound kind of alarming?

That is spot on.
First off, not everyone lives right in that coastal strip 1.9 miles by the ocean. And even for those who do, most people can't find anything to rent anyway.

The stuff about farming is also totally true. Take a place like Pakoštane, for example. They used to be big into agriculture—you've got Lake Vrana nearby and the soil is incredibly fertile—but once tourism took off in the 80s, almost everyone just walked away from farming. The prices aren't worth it, and with the Ornithological Reserve being full of birds, they basically eat everything in sight. So, you end up with this really productive land just sitting there neglected, while tourism is absolutely booming.

In some spots, even just a mile away from the coast, tourists don't want to go anywhere near it... unless, I guess, you happen to own a villa with a pool.

Regarding the farming situation, my family is originally from near Pakoštane, and some of my relatives still do it—mostly vegetables along with some citrus—all alongside their tourism work. There is one cousin who actually started beekeeping, though, and he's doing really well with that.

I keep saying this, but compared to typical Midwest conditions, the plots here are just too small and scattered. Honestly, people would probably just laugh at them.

It's always the same group complaining, usually the ones who are shady or just poor managers. Every now and then, you can blame the government or a buyer, or maybe a decent farmer who simply failed to plan ahead. Everyone else knows they just have to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

As for subsidies, the government started this cat-and-mouse game ages ago. People got used to treating subsidies like a regular paycheck, and now that the money isn't there, they run into trouble.
Of course, it's been pointed out a hundred times that these subsidies were essentially just "handouts" rather than actual development measures.

Land is a whole other issue, and honestly, the government bears 100% of the responsibility there.
State-owned land is often leased out through very non-transparent processes, while private land is just too fragmented. Obviously, you can't force someone to sell their land to someone else, but there should have been something in place to discourage holding onto uncultivated plots. Also, the double taxation during property exchanges is a messy detail that really ought to be abolished for agricultural land.

rustydriver said:If having fertile farmland is such a massive upgrade over owning vacation rentals, why don't you two (rowdypilot19 and wearytrucker22) just sell everything, move to the Midwest, and go chase those government subsidies?

It’s honestly absurd watching you try to push this narrative that managing an Airbnb is some grueling ordeal. You clean the place once every ten days, hand off the keys to tourists, and collect the cash. Or, if you're feeling lazy, you just hand over 5-10% to a property management agency to handle the whole thing while you sit back and watch the money roll in without lifting a finger.

And then you have the nerve to compare that to agriculture, where you’re grinding for 6 to 9 months a year, putting in well over 100 hours a month just to keep the operation from collapsing. Basically, the rental owners start with an extra 100 hours of free time every month to pick up a second job—or, as is usually the case, to do absolutely nothing. Not to mention that farmers are at the mercy of things they can't control, like the weather. This year was a nightmare with the drought burning everything to a crisp, whereas on the coast, you’ll get rain 70% of the time like you did three years ago. The rental income stays steady regardless.

Then there’s the overhead. You have to till the land constantly using heavy machinery, which means either renting equipment or shelling out a fortune to own it. And at the end of the day, you actually have to sell the product. Most of the time, you're selling at the border just to break even, or sometimes even at a loss. Those subsidies you love to talk about aren't making people rich; they're just keeping them from drowning. That's the reality, despite the story you two are trying to sell.

How can you even put tourism and farming in the same conversation? Look at how something like Ultra in Split works—scammers hike prices by 200% and fill every room without having invested a single cent more than they did last year. When does that happen in farming? When demand outstrips supply—like during this drought when yields dropped by 50%—does the price skyrocket? No. If the local supply is too low, we just import food from other countries, and the domestic farmers still get stuck with the same old prices.

Sure, there’s a fair percentage of people who went bust because they overleveraged themselves on tractors and combines, or simply because the economy tanked. But what really grinds my gears is the attempt to claim that renting out apartments is harder work or less profitable than farming.

Look, man, you clearly don't know the first thing about tourism or the rental market. Honestly, it might be better if you just kept your mouth shut so you don't embarrass yourself.

rowdypilot19 As specified by:
No, I mean they were only protected because they were state-backed, just like those massive government-owned corporations. They’d lock in prices ahead of time, overcharge for everything, and then the companies would just patch up their losses using taxpayer money from the federal budget—nobody actually gave a damn about the consequences.

Of course, when you look at who was actually padding the budget, it was mostly the USA and Russia. Though, if I had to be more precise, it was primarily the USA.
.

I guess you're talking about the old America days? But honestly, what was it like before that? Ever since the mid-1800s, the Midwest has been incredibly rich and fertile—back when we actually had some order brought to us by the Americans—but then for the last 20 years or so, we've just been struggling. And now, with the climate changing, I suppose it means we humans are the ones to blame.

wearytrucker22 said:The kind of rental you're describing pulls in maybe $60 to $200 tops in places like Miami or LA.
You can tell by my rates that I’m not running apartments—I’m running rooms. The price is high because I provide actual value (and no, I don't mean food). I'm up working for an hour before the guests even wake up, and I don't hit the sack until after they do. My workday is a minimum of 18 hours. Taking guests out to restaurants is work, too; I have to play host, translate, explain things, blah, blah, blah.

Midwest farming (for most people, anyway) is child's play.
Some guy plows 100 acres in ten days, sows his Wheat, harvests it, and collects his government subsidies. $75000 If he's unlucky enough for the crop to actually grow, he has to harvest it, haul it to the buyer, and then spend his time complaining about low prices and blocking highways.

I’m sorry, but I think you’re talking complete nonsense.

wearytrucker22 Asks:
I mean, I guess they probably have to get out there and actually put in the work too—spraying the fields, dealing with all that rot and decay, and then obviously having to go out and buy the seed.
And because of how they’re playing games with the wheat supply, American tourism is going to take a massive hit too, especially since bakery products are such a fundamental part of the experience. You have all these high-end restaurants and local pizza joints that end up having to source their flour from outside suppliers just to keep their doors open.
I honestly don't think you can ever make a decent pizza using American wheat; it just doesn't work. You might get by making some okay bread or maybe even some pastries, but as far as pizza goes, you're just out of luck.

More nonsense. If there's one thing that’s actually true, it's that most of our bakery products are subpar, but you can't exactly pin that on the farmers; the blame lies squarely with the bakers. I mean, if certain bakeries are capable of turning out incredible goods, then others could easily do the same if they actually cared to try. And yeah, I’m well aware that some of our local bakers are importing flour from Mexico just because it’s cheaper, not because it’s any better quality.

rowdypilot19 said:And honestly, that’s the catch for all of them, right? Because once they're done with the Wheat, they actually need to have something else lined up to work on.

And you've gone and started in with the nonsense too.

For all those of you who seem convinced that some farmer is only planting wheat just to chase government subsidies, I’d suggest you go do a little homework. Seriously, try to find the actual breakdown of how many acres are allocated to each specific crop. I’m certain that kind of data is out there somewhere if you actually bother to look for it.

neonhound18 Asks:
That’s exactly why I argued that we need to focus on education. We really have to sit people down and explain that planting a single crop in a monoculture basically ruins the soil. You end up inviting a whole host of diseases, pests, and weeds to move in, which eventually leads to total soil degradation because the humus levels just plummet—mostly because everyone relies so heavily on synthetic fertilizers for grain crops. I could go on and on about that, but you get the idea. 🕺

No self-respecting farmer—someone who actually treats this as a profession rather than just some shady middleman looking for a quick buck—would ever dream of planting crops in a monoculture. That’s just common sense, something my late grandfather drilled into me from day one.

rowdypilot19 said:It’s kind of funny to me how everyone just assumes that if you live by the coast, your whole life revolves around tourism.

My family has always been in farming—basically my entire extended family on my dad's side. And honestly? My relatives make a really solid living by basically playing the agriculture and tourism game at the same time. They tell me, "Oh, we have three houses, it's easy for us." I mean, sure, things are easier now, but let's be real: two out of those three houses were built off farming, and maybe half of one was from tourism.

People just grew whatever made sense to make a buck at the time, you know? So they'd be out there growing cabbage, Swiss chard, spinach, maybe some lettuce here, tomatoes, cucumbers, zucchini, watermelons... you name it.

But if you actually ask them how much land they're working with, about 70% of them have plots like that right behind their houses back in the Midwest.

I think this is absolutely spot on.
First of all, let's be clear—not everyone lives within the metropolitan belt. 1.9 miles It’s coming from the coast, too. And honestly, most of the people actually living there don't even have anything available to rent out anymore.

Everything people are saying about agriculture is spot on. Take a place like Pakoštane, for example. Back in the day, everyone there was focused on farming—the land around Lake Vrana is incredibly fertile and productive. But once tourism really took off in the 80s, things shifted completely, and now it seems like almost everyone has just walked away from farming altogether. The prices they get for crops aren't worth the effort anymore, and to make matters worse, the Ornithological Reserve is teeming with birds that end up eating whatever manages to grow. So, you end up with this amazingly rich, fertile soil just sitting there neglected, while the tourism industry continues to boom.

Thomas Nelson25 said:Look, they know all that stuff. The real issue is that nobody's actually doing soil analysis or anything serious. The pros who actually know their business do it, obviously, but without the right tech and know-how, you're stuck. It's the same everywhere.
The goal should be helping those folks (most farmers aren't to blame here, by the way) land those high-level roles—that's the whole point. Every single past administration—whether it was the Republicans, Democrats, or whoever else—just wasted time fussing over tiny family plots. They completely missed the mark. They should have been investing in industry near the rural areas, like how things used to be. Now? Everything in the Midwest is just falling apart—think wood processing, silos, mills, whatever.
Once they finally sort out the land registries, those massive tracts of land will end up in the hands of serious corporations. That’s where the future of farming lies for us Midwesters.

I'm just not sure what's going to happen with livestock and pigs. There's endless potential for sheep and goats (even down by your coast/seaside), but nobody—and I mean actual investors—seems to give a damn.

The truth is, investors aren't interested, and finding workers is nearly impossible. Livestock is brutal work; once you decide to raise sheep or goats, you might as well have signed yourself up for a life sentence.

slysurfer14 said:I don't even get what this thread is about.
It's either people collecting subsidies and then "forgetting" their taxes and social security, or just the fact that the number of Family Farms is dropping...
The drop in Family Farms is happening for a simple reason: now owners actually have to pay their own Social Security and healthcare premiums, along with everyone else on the farm. It wasn't like this before, back when anyone who grew a couple of tomatoes would just register as a Family Farm to grab some government money...
Now that running a Family Farm comes with actual fixed costs, the people who weren't producing anything at all have shut down. The ones actually farming stayed in business, so we finally have a realistic count of Family Farms (which probably would be a few thousand lower if it were still the old way)...

Come on, let's hear from some actual Family Farm owners instead of just the armchair theorists.
The number of Family Farms will naturally dwindle over time because so many of them are essentially "retirement" households. And frankly, their heirs don't see any future or any sense in sticking with agriculture.

slysurfer14 said:Growing Wheat takes about 20 working days...
I mean, you've got plowing, soil prep, seeding, fertilizing, more fertilizing after it sprouts, and finally harvesting....
That's basically it... It's probably one of the least profitable crops out there.

No matter how unprofitable it might be, we still need it. It's essential for food and for crop rotation.
The problem is that all these self-proclaimed experts seem to think a farmer just sows wheat and nothing else.

rowdypilot19 said:Quote

I guess... maybe I should just say it? Betting. Or, like, gambling. It’s all kind of the same thing, isn't it? I don't know. I've been thinking about it lately, just how much people love the rush, I suppose. It's intense. Really intense. says: Nancy Howard4, I had this one former coworker who used to always say something about this... I guess he’d just tell you, you know, that you're only actually wealthy if your grandfather was wealthy. That's how he saw it, anyway. Maybe he was right? I don't know. So, I mean, you've got your great-grandfather right there with you, I guess... but yeah, that's pretty much it. 😉

I mean, it doesn't have to be perfectly accurate, I guess... lots of people were flipping coastal land along the Amalfi Coast back in the day, like between '99 and '07, making absolute fortunes. But looking at things now? It's pretty much a coin toss. Some folks probably blew through all that cash immediately, while others were smart enough to actually invest it properly. There isn't really one set rule for how it played out, I suppose.

I mean, if they actually had something to pass down... and assuming things didn't just go completely sideways for all the men out there, I guess. Maybe.

So, I guess in my family, everything was pretty much split up evenly... like, every single plot of land was divided into equal parts and all that stuff. But, well, there was this one thing—the house itself always went to the male heir, you know? And then the women would get other plots instead. But honestly, looking back, it all worked out to be totally fair in the end, because those plots were actually worth a decent amount too, since they were zoned for building and things like that. It just balanced out, I suppose.

It’s just such a shame they handled things that way. I mean, I guess since I come from the father's side of the family, and my mom is basically the glue holding everything together, it really makes a difference... maybe? It just feels like a missed opportunity, honestly. 😁

So, I guess there’s this area near Dresden, right on the Amalfi Coast, where you get those massive stretches of coastline. It’s pretty wild how things worked out there. The sons ended up inheriting all these plots up in the hills, just above the main highway, while the daughters got the spots right by the water. Which means, I suppose, that all the most expensive property actually ended up in the hands of the sons-in-law. Kind of crazy when you think about it, right? 🤣

I mean, honestly, as far as you're concerned... that train has pretty much already left the station. I guess. Maybe. 🍿

I live in a coastal town, and honestly, it feels like everything has been sold off to developers over the last fifteen years or so. It’s kind of crazy when you look back at how things used to be. Back in '97, I guess the average price was maybe around $30,000 or something like that. By 2000, we were seeing prices climb up to the $50,000 range. Then, around 2007, the beachfront property—the prime first row—was going for upwards of $250,000 per unit. Now, while the market has cooled down a bit, those front-row spots are basically gone forever; they've just paved over the whole coastline with concrete.
I mean, if you look at the people who actually sold off their properties, most of them just built maybe two or three small rental units, pocketed the cash, and bought themselves a new car. I guess nobody actually went out and opened a legitimate business or anything substantial with that money. Business. And honestly, most of the time, it was just the daughters and sons-in-law calling the shots—selling everything off to their heirs, who, let's be real, probably didn't even know which state they were living in.

rustywalker42 said:There's a bunch of millionaires on this thread. 😁

You’ve got 800 square meters of buildable land just 100 meters from the beach and you’re telling me that’s nothing? You know that old saying about "having it all and realizing you have nothing"? Maybe try that sometime. Look, I'm not wishing that on you, but seriously—a little humility wouldn't hurt.

I mean, honestly, that’s just one single construction site. If you ask me, he’d probably want at least four of those projects going at once—he'd sell two of them and then use all that cash to build two houses from scratch :P

Michael Morgan5 said:What kind of poll is this even supposed to be? 🤣
How on earth can you inherit something through hard work?

I mean, sure, it’s easy to say—like, let's say you're looking at providing lifelong support for a family member, mostly because you know they're eventually going to leave you an inheritance or some kind of estate.
It’s one of those situations where you can basically stumble into wealth without lifting a finger or using even a shred of intellect. Take a scenario like this: an aunt passes away without any children, and suddenly there's a massive estate up for grabs. Or maybe her brother passes away before she does, leaving all her property to a group of siblings who didn't even realize they had relatives in a different part of the country. It’s wild, really. Just like that, out of nowhere, you might find yourself looking at a windfall of $100,000 or $200,000 just dropped right into your lap. I guess it's just one of those strange strokes of luck that happens when you least expect it.

Oh yeah, why stop there? We should probably just dredge the Mississippi about 5 or 6 meters deeper. That way, we’d have enough gravel to build another 2 or 3 interstate highways, and maybe we could even sell the surplus to the Canadians. Honestly, we wouldn't even need to worry about our own embankments anymore. I guess you could say it would be a two-for-one deal, if you think about it. :P

I honestly thought they had actually picked up some Patriot missile systems, but turns out it was just an M79 grenade launcher. I guess we were buying similar little gadgets back in the 90s too, though we were working with way less cash and dealing with all those sanctions at the time.

Sometimes I try to check the forums on my phone, and I run into this incredibly annoying issue with the login process. It’s not even that the credentials don't work—I can log in just fine—but then, after maybe only a few seconds, it kicks me right back out. It makes it impossible to actually read anything. I guess I have to go through the whole login cycle at least three times just to get through a single post. I'm using AT&T for my data connection when I'm out and about.

So, what’s the deal with women who spend all their time complaining about their situations but never actually lift a finger to change anything?