Posts by Ryan Rogers5

wearyhawk83 said:So, are we talking about two separate worlds here?

Look, there are plenty of different worlds out there—I was just breaking things down into the material versus the spiritual side of things. But honestly? What really worries me more is how much this forum seems to be losing its spark lately.
It’s all just empty philosophy at this point.

Nicholas Gonzalez8 said:I get where you're coming from—I tend to lean toward similar thoughts myself. But I wouldn't go so far as to say God is least present in the material; I'd say that's just where we suffer from the biggest illusion that He isn't there. Also, I don't think matter is inherently "limited" compared to the spiritual—it's more like both are constantly shifting and evolving. Everything changes.

So, alright then, if that's the case, what exactly in this material universe is actually infinite and eternal?
Planets, stars, galaxies... everything has a beginning and an end, doesn't it?

Kimberly Smith6 said:That is exactly my point! When we make a conscious choice to follow a path of fasting or temporary abstinence, what we are really doing is practicing a form of deprivation for a set period. During that time, our desires naturally begin to build up, and when we finally step out of that phase of self-denial, everything feels so much sweeter.
In many ways, the things we crave most are precisely those things we have temporarily denied ourselves.

As for your experience of finding joy in nothingness, I suspect you simply reached a state of true peace and tranquility where you didn't actually *need* anything else, which is why you were able to feel so content.

That’s why I maintain that hedonism is deeply subjective; it varies from one person to the next, and people often shift their sources of pleasure because they won't rely on the same single thing forever.

To put it another way, I don't believe a human being is ever truly, permanently satisfied for the rest of their life. We are always, throughout our entire existence, reaching for new forms of hedonistic gratification and constantly evolving our desires.

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But honestly, I don't think that's quite right,
See, those deep spiritual highs usually come from being totally drained, not because life was easy or I didn't need anything.
Actually, things were pretty messy at home when it happened.

Kimberly Smith6 said:From what I’ve been gathering from the various threads here, it seems we are essentially weighing the merits of pure hedonism and materialism against the pursuit of spiritual growth.

Now, I feel like many of us tend to get a little muddled when we talk about seeking spiritual development, because before we can even begin, we really ought to pause and ask ourselves: what does "spiritual growth" actually signify to me personally?
In other words, what specific aspect of my spirit am I aiming to cultivate, given that the term "spirituality" doesn't carry any inherent weight on its own, much like how "materialism" doesn't define what one owns.

If I may attempt to clarify this comparison between materialism and spirituality through a bit of a mental exercise—some might argue that their version of materialism is satisfied just having a decent place to sleep, perhaps even a modest apartment in a quiet suburb, while others would insist they won't be content unless they are living in a sprawling mansion in Beverly Hills.
To my mind, both parties are absolutely correct in their own way, simply because their respective material desires have been met.

But moving back to the realm of the soul, what is it that you all are actually trying to develop when you speak of spirituality?
One person might say that a simple, steadfast faith in God, Allah, or Yahweh is sufficient—meaning they just kneel down in a quiet moment and offer a prayer, nothing more complex than that. Meanwhile, another might claim that spirituality involves traversing astral planes, a third might focus on deep meditation to find inner peace, and then a fourth, fifth, or sixth person will go on to list an entirely different set of practices... please, feel free to continue that list yourselves.

I find myself thinking once again that every single one of those perspectives is valid. And why is that?
It is quite simply because nowhere in the heavens is there a celestial manual, written in bold letters or illustrated in vivid detail, dictating which specific path is the one true and correct way for every individual to live. Even if we look to sacred texts, we must remember that those books were penned by humans who claimed to be speaking for God, but does that truth remain static for all eternity, or has something shifted in the grand design since those days?

Has God, Allah, Yahweh, or some other higher power ever reached out to you directly to whisper exactly what you must do, or to define your specific purpose and mission here on Earth?
I suspect that for at least 99.99% of the people hanging out on this forum, the answer is a resounding no.

Then there is hedonism, which I see as a synonym for indulgence or pleasure-seeking.
Here again, we are forced to confront the question: what does hedonism actually mean to you?
Some will point toward physical intimacy, others toward gourmet food, and some might even include spiritual exploration itself.
And once again, I shall say that everyone is right!
Why?
Because there is no universal definition provided for what constitutes hedonism, as the meaning shifts for every single soul here on this forum, and as we experience satiation, our very definition of pleasure can evolve and transform.
For instance, someone might find their ultimate hedonistic joy in physical intimacy today, only to find that tomorrow, their sense of indulgence has shifted toward the tranquility of meditation or the solace of prayer.

Is pursuing pleasure through physical intimacy inherently a bad thing?
I wouldn't go so far as to say it is. I see it primarily as a way to satisfy the needs of our bodies, which, after all, possess a fundamental biological drive to ensure the continuation of the species. If we deliberately deny ourselves those needs, we only end up feeling unfulfilled.

We truly must tend to both the body and the spirit, for it is widely understood that a healthy mind resides within a healthy body.

If we are struggling with physical ailments, it becomes nearly impossible to focus on spiritual growth, because our entire consciousness becomes consumed by the singular goal of healing, only to eventually return to our pursuit of hedonism—whether that be through material comforts or spiritual delights.

Tapatalk 2 using mobile - Apple Watch

Look, at the end of the day, hedonism—or just pure enjoyment—is totally relative.
Think about it: if you've been fasting, the food tastes way better when you finally eat.
It's the same deal with sex; if you hold off for a few days, the pleasure is much more intense.

Then again, you can find joy in absolutely nothing at all. Like, about ten years ago, I spent a few days alone in a tiny room at a monastery, just being by myself with zero distractions. After that initial wave of anxiety passed, I felt this incredible happiness unlike anything I'd ever experienced before. But yeah... that was more of a spiritual kind of satisfaction.

Kimberly Smith6 said:From what I’ve been gathering from the various threads here, it seems we are essentially weighing the merits of pure hedonism and materialism against the pursuit of spiritual growth.

Now, I feel like many of us tend to get a little muddled when we talk about seeking spiritual development, because before we can even begin, we really ought to pause and ask ourselves: what does "spiritual growth" actually signify to me personally?
In other words, what specific aspect of my spirit am I aiming to cultivate, given that the term "spirituality" doesn't carry any inherent weight on its own, much like how "materialism" doesn't define what one owns.

If I may attempt to clarify this comparison between materialism and spirituality through a bit of a mental exercise—some might argue that their version of materialism is satisfied just having a decent place to sleep, perhaps even a modest apartment in a quiet suburb, while others would insist they won't be content unless they are living in a sprawling mansion in Beverly Hills.
To my mind, both parties are absolutely correct in their own way, simply because their respective material desires have been met.

But moving back to the realm of the soul, what is it that you all are actually trying to develop when you speak of spirituality?
One person might say that a simple, steadfast faith in God, Allah, or Yahweh is sufficient—meaning they just kneel down in a quiet moment and offer a prayer, nothing more complex than that. Meanwhile, another might claim that spirituality involves traversing astral planes, a third might focus on deep meditation to find inner peace, and then a fourth, fifth, or sixth person will go on to list an entirely different set of practices... please, feel free to continue that list yourselves.

I find myself thinking once again that every single one of those perspectives is valid. And why is that?
It is quite simply because nowhere in the heavens is there a celestial manual, written in bold letters or illustrated in vivid detail, dictating which specific path is the one true and correct way for every individual to live. Even if we look to sacred texts, we must remember that those books were penned by humans who claimed to be speaking for God, but does that truth remain static for all eternity, or has something shifted in the grand design since those days?

Has God, Allah, Yahweh, or some other higher power ever reached out to you directly to whisper exactly what you must do, or to define your specific purpose and mission here on Earth?
I suspect that for at least 99.99% of the people hanging out on this forum, the answer is a resounding no.

Then there is hedonism, which I see as a synonym for indulgence or pleasure-seeking.
Here again, we are forced to confront the question: what does hedonism actually mean to you?
Some will point toward physical intimacy, others toward gourmet food, and some might even include spiritual exploration itself.
And once again, I shall say that everyone is right!
Why?
Because there is no universal definition provided for what constitutes hedonism, as the meaning shifts for every single soul here on this forum, and as we experience satiation, our very definition of pleasure can evolve and transform.
For instance, someone might find their ultimate hedonistic joy in physical intimacy today, only to find that tomorrow, their sense of indulgence has shifted toward the tranquility of meditation or the solace of prayer.

Is pursuing pleasure through physical intimacy inherently a bad thing?
I wouldn't go so far as to say it is. I see it primarily as a way to satisfy the needs of our bodies, which, after all, possess a fundamental biological drive to ensure the continuation of the species. If we deliberately deny ourselves those needs, we only end up feeling unfulfilled.

We truly must tend to both the body and the spirit, for it is widely understood that a healthy mind resides within a healthy body.

If we are struggling with physical ailments, it becomes nearly impossible to focus on spiritual growth, because our entire consciousness becomes consumed by the singular goal of healing, only to eventually return to our pursuit of hedonism—whether that be through material comforts or spiritual delights.

Tapatalk 2 using mobile - Apple Watch

Look, at the end of the day, hedonism—or just pure enjoyment—is totally relative.
Think about it: for some folks, food tastes way better after you've worked up an appetite.
It’s the same deal with sex; if we hold off for a few days, the experience feels much more intense.

Then again, you can find bliss without any external stuff at all. Like, about ten years ago, I spent a few days alone in a monk's cell in a quiet monastery, just being by myself with nothing. After the initial anxiety wore off, I felt a level of happiness I’d never experienced before.

Nicholas Gonzalez8 said:But wait a second—doesn't God permeate the entire physical world? I mean, if the spiritual realm is enough on its own, why even bother creating a material universe in the first place?

Sure, God is everywhere, but you could argue His presence is at its most limited within the material plane—mostly because God is infinite and eternal, while matter is just... well, finite, temporary, and destined to die. But honestly, the physical world feels absolutely necessary, right? It acts as the perfect counterweight to the spiritual side, which actually helps both realms evolve. Think about it—if we only had a purely spiritual existence, there wouldn't be any real change or growth, and without change, existence itself kind of loses its point, whether you're looking at this life or the next.
I mean, the material world feeds the spiritual one, and vice versa. It’s like a cycle—when someone passes away in the physical sense, they’re essentially being born into the spiritual realm, and coming into this world physically means leaving the spiritual one behind. It's this complete, closed loop that mirrors the entire universe. I know, it's a bit of a heavy concept to wrap your head around, and I'm probably not the best at explaining it simply, but that's how I see it.
At the end of the day, trying to fully grasp God's intentions is way beyond what the human mind can actually process.

Dana Brooks3 said:Poverty alone doesn't corrupt a person; that isn't necessarily true...
It’s not about how much someone possesses, but rather their relationship to those possessions. Enjoying life doesn't automatically mean you are serving it.

People who actually struggle to build something aren't usually lazy or weak-willed.
They end up being better at distinguishing material wealth from spiritual value, which gives them an edge over those who deny one or the other entirely.
There are people raised in total poverty with strong spiritual foundations, yet when they finally encounter the beauty of material things and physical pleasures, their entire value system can shatter and lead to corruption. To me, that isn't proof that matter itself is inherently corrupting. It just shows that you can't truly care for your soul if you dismiss the physical world as worthless. If you can recognize its value for yourself and your own needs, then you can maintain a healthy relationship with it without letting it compromise your values.
Just because certain comforts have become standard doesn't mean a person has lost their way spiritually by enjoying them. Circumstances change, and the goal is to figure out how to value things in a way that protects your identity and integrity.

Asceticism is limited to specific groups and is often impossible for most people to achieve. If it becomes a requirement, it's only for a tiny minority. For everyone else, it serves more as an inspiration or a guiding image rather than a lifestyle. The ideal of the ascetic rejecting worldly goods is an image found after reaching a certain realization, not a promise of enlightenment gained through forced deprivation. This likely ties back to our instincts—the innate drive to overcome what is fleeting and perishable.

What I mean is, giving something up only makes sense once you understand the connection between your desires and how you satisfy them through material means. That's when it stops being about unhealthy "sacrifice."

Sure, it can, but let's be real—it’s not the same thing.
A sin is still a sin, right? But there's a massive difference between doing something because you're desperate and doing it just because you're greedy.

Casey Gomez said:You know what? Forget all that pleasantry. Let's just grab some drinks and get this party started together—if you'll let me be the one to lead the charge.

For sure, and then I still have to break down what "spiritual bliss" actually means... I'll probably start a whole new thread on that soon enough.

Casey Gomez said:Obviously. I always enjoy uploading that massive video where Ayrton Senna encounters God while driving a pack of cars. Set it to full screen for the truly transcendental experience. 👍

But man, imagine if he was piloting a freaking starship... 😂
Seriously though, folks—stop falling for all this nonsense you pick up from god-knows-where.

There are just a few common misconceptions floating around when it comes to spirituality.

First off, people act like there’s some brand-new way to "discover" things, or like there’s some secret roadmap to success out there.
Newsflash: there isn't. Everything worth saying about spirituality was figured out a long, long time ago.

Then there's the idea that you can somehow level up spiritually by chasing material stuff.
If that actually worked, every single millionaire would be a saint, right? But let's be real—money and luxury don't help your soul one bit. In fact, they usually just end up messing a person up...

silentwolf192 said:Material enjoyment isn't some kind of roadblock to spiritual growth, if anything, it’s actually quite the opposite

Look, enjoying material stuff and finding spiritual fulfillment are two totally different ballgames, and the same goes for progress in those areas. It’s pretty clear from what's written: you just can't serve both God and money at the same time.

First things first, you really have to get honest with yourself—like, truly strip away all the delusions.
Are we talking about the spiritual side of things here, or are you more focused on the material stuff?
The real question is, are you actually going to put in the work to change, or what?
Because if you aren't, let's be real—you're just lying to yourself and everyone else around you.

If we’re being totally honest here, the idea of having a "personal theory" when it comes to spirituality is kind of a myth.
Everything we think we're discovering—whether it's about life, God, matter, the spirit, and all that stuff—has already been laid out by someone else ages ago.
So, really, it just boils down to whether we choose to align ourselves with those existing truths or not, which mostly depends on our own perspective and how much we've actually grown spiritually.

I'll say it again for the people in the back: if you want to find success on a spiritual level, you don't need to go out and add anything new to yourself. You just need to let go of the things that are weighing you down.

silentwolf192 said:silentwolf192 here. Personally, I think the whole asceticism thing actually makes sense if you look at it through a different lens: it’s really just about streamlining your life. If you cut out all the trivial nonsense, you aren't wasting precious time or energy on things that don't matter. It doesn't even feel like much of a sacrifice, honestly—it's more like leaning into that natural human instinct to seek out simplicity and ease.
I just don't get this whole asceticism thing—this idea that you have to reject everything actually good and life-affirming just to find spiritual clarity. Some people seem obsessed with that path of total deprivation, basically insisting on punishing their own bodies through suffering just to reach some kind of "freedom." And look, maybe for some folks, that’s a valid route. I'm not saying it isn't possible. But personally? Since I don't believe that misery is a prerequisite for growth, I’m definitely not going down that road.
Look, if I decide to skip out on meat or cut back on the sweets, it’s not some strict "access" thing or a rigid dietary protocol I'm following. It’s much simpler than that—I’m just listening to my gut. Honestly, I just go where my intuition takes me.
I’m actually inclined to believe that if Aako views suffering as this ultimate agony, then the whole thing is pretty much pointless. I mean, the spirit remains tethered regardless, right? And yet, there are certain things you just have to purge through pain—like getting clean from heroin or having a rotten tooth yanked out by a dentist. You can't really bypass the grit of it.
Maybe my take on enlightenment is a little too hedonistic for some, but hear me out. I truly believe that motivation has to come from a positive place if you actually want to reach that state of peace and bliss without all the unnecessary suffering. If the end goal is finding the light, then why shouldn't the journey itself be driven by that? Sure, people talk about asceticism or intense catharsis, but even those paths are supposed to lead toward something better. For me, I try to keep the path itself positive and cut out the misery—unless, of course, the struggle is absolutely necessary to get where I'm going.

You won't find any spiritual growth in chasing material pleasures, and you can't have true devotion without facing some hardship.
Honestly, that’s stuff that’s been explored and said a thousand times before.

silentwolf192 said:I’m digging the new profile pic, Casey Gomez. Is that actually you? Now I totally get why you picked that nickname 😉

Alright, jokes aside, let me just reiterate my point—though I suspect my take might be a bit too soft for some people here. I honestly believe that extreme asceticism mostly just breeds neuroses that eventually boil over, much like how pure hedonism becomes its own empty goal. If you instead treat health and moderation as your guiding lights, I think you’ll find the right path. Sure, there isn't always some massive, obvious sign that you're on the right track—not externally, and certainly not immediately from within—but if you stay persistent and patient, it eventually shows itself.

"The soul is weightier than the body, and the man is more than his suit"—Jesus Christ
If you approach asceticism gradually and under spiritual guidance, you don't run into those neurotic issues.
Going cold turkey on everything is dangerous—just like anything else you try to rush into without being prepared.

Ryan Gomez4 said:Sleep is actually a basic requirement for spiritual growth. 🙂

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Lovecraftian Mythos!

And honestly? Taking things way too literally is just a fast track to being totally delusional.
I wasn't suggesting people shouldn't sleep at all—or when I write a post, I’m not saying you should skip meals entirely, right?
It's more about cutting back to just what's necessary.
p.s. Personally, I find it pretty weird when I see some out-of-shape preacher.
How can someone even try to teach others if they can't seem to practice what they preach themselves?

mistygull16 said:I feel like, first off, we just gotta be honest with ourselves. Only then can we even talk about being truly good people. 🤷

Or, even better... maybe we should start noticing how we react to things, and then figure out the weird little subconscious gears that drive those reactions in the first place.

Oh, for sure—without being honest with yourself, you've got nothing. And you can't get honest without some serious self-discovery, right? But let's be real: self-discovery doesn't just happen; it requires actual work. And that kind of work? It takes grit and sacrifice. This is where I feel like we're hitting a wall, because I see a lot of people on this forum thinking they can just "level up" spiritually by reading a few books or getting into deep debates online. And when someone mentions "working on yourself," most people just think about sitting on a therapist's couch. Honestly? That's not enough!
We could spend twenty years over-analyzing every little reaction we have and still end up nowhere if we don't take some real, heavy-duty action. I'm talking about the stuff spiritual leaders have been doing throughout history—fasting, prayer, enduring the cold, sleep deprivation, and all that other intense discipline.

Benjamin Taylor6 said:If my boss hears you talking like that, he'll probably call you into the office at Goldman Sachs just to have you work for him. And naturally, it'll be unpaid—because apparently, a true spiritual seeker doesn't give a damn about money.

This is exactly what I'm looking for:

Then go ahead and join this crowd: http://www.nytimes.com/section/opinion

Speaking of bosses, let's be real—you have to put in some serious sweat equity to actually succeed in any career. And honestly, why would spirituality be any different?
Just skimming a few books here and there, chatting about it, or dropping a post on a forum... that's just not enough.
You can't really expect any massive breakthroughs from doing the bare minimum. Someone mentioned initiation in another thread, and now we're talking—that's actual work.

Benjamin Taylor6 said:If my boss hears you talking like that, he'll probably call you into the office at Goldman Sachs just to have you work for him. And naturally, it'll be unpaid—because apparently, a true spiritual seeker doesn't give a damn about money.

This is exactly what I'm looking for:

Then go ahead and join this crowd: http://www.nytimes.com/section/opinion

Living like that requires some serious groundwork; otherwise, you might end up doing more harm than good.
You have to gradually get used to being alone and slowly start dialing back those worldly passions.

You can't really make any massive strides in life without making some sacrifices along the way.

Think about it—since most of what we do in this life is basically just labor, we might as well put that effort toward something meaningful. It’s all about putting in the work without getting obsessively hung up on the end result or the payout—that's the core wisdom from the Bhagavad Gita.

I'm looking for something along those lines:

Alright, let's dive into this. Now the real question is... what does everyone actually mean when they talk about "spiritual progress"?
We all tend to rack up more knowledge as we get older—that's just life, right? But are we actually becoming better versions of ourselves? Like, as human beings? That’s the part that really matters to me—all that wisdom doesn't mean a thing if there isn't love behind it.